Community: Exchange advice in the forums and read running commentary Resources: Personal running log, calculators, links and other tools for runners News: Running news from around the world Training: Articles and advice about fitness, race training and injury prevention Races/Results: Find upcoming races and past results Home: The Cool Running homepage
Cool Running homepage
Community
discussion forumsviewpoint
| > rules | > faq | > e-mail to a friend | moderator: Currenscontendere

Chuck Engle - Truly Amazing Stats


Topic is 14 pages:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Post a new topic    
> next newest topic | > next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Chuck Engle - Truly Amazing Stats
obsessor
Cool Runner
posted Feb-24-2006 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for obsessor   Click Here to Email obsessor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought Kurtis' "record" was that of 40 marathon wins. (and obviously, I thought it was 40.)

He could not have maximized his potential, or darn close, running 5-7 marathons a year? You know this? How? Everyone has a certain # they can run in a year? Or in a lifetime? (while still remaining at the top of their game, that is.) Hmmm.

Was he purposely racing so much as to limit his potential?? I doubt that.

IP: Logged

RTCRUNR
Cool Runner
posted Feb-24-2006 03:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RTCRUNR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by obsessor:
He could not have maximized his potential, or darn close, running 5-7 marathons a year? You know this? How? Everyone has a certain # they can run in a year? Or in a lifetime? (while still remaining at the top of their game, that is.) Hmmm.

Was he purposely racing so much as to limit his potential?? I doubt that.


There's really no way to say whether or not Kurtis raced to his potential, but it would seem likely that he probably could have run faster had he focussed on doing just one or two a year. Running that many marathons at the level he did had to take something out of him. I'm sure he wasn't thinking about his "potential" though. He was probably just enjoying racing. As strange as it seems to me, not everyone cares about running as fast as they possibly can, even some of those at very high levels of the sport. A current example that I often wonder about is Michael Wardian. Seems he can run high 2:20's to low 2:30's pretty much whenever he wants and he has run as fast as 2:21. He also races other distances frequently. I just wonder what he could run if he really focussed on just one marathon. In no way do I question or criticize what he's doing, but it would be interesting to know. Maybe 2:20 is about all he can do, but maybe it's 2:15 or even better.

IP: Logged

laker
Cool Runner
posted Feb-24-2006 03:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for laker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm alot more impressed with Doug Kurtis than Chuck Engle. Holding the record for most sub 2:20 marathons is pretty cool, and in every race he was a potential winner. He also didn't run a marathon virtually every week.Again, I question how anyone can recover from a marathon so quickly week after week, do any of these races have drug testing?

IP: Logged

crunningman
Cool Runner
posted Feb-24-2006 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crunningman   Click Here to Email crunningman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think we all like to win no matter what the race, event, time, age group win.

With Doug and/or Chuck they get that winning in their blood, get a taste for it. Regardless if they have to run a 2:20,:30,:40, etc. it gets the job done for that day.
Just having that confidence when they show up to an event knowing they have as good a chance as anyone to win says alot their talent.

We all know Chuck can't run with the kenyans or even some of the top American's on the scene, but what he has done is certainly remarkable in its own right.

IP: Logged

KudzuRunner
Cool Runner
posted Feb-24-2006 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KudzuRunner   Click Here to Email KudzuRunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeBro:
I'm not saying those are bad times, and they're faster than I could run a marathon, but to get a sense of perspective here, the dude is absolutely cherry-picking his marathons. Those are sloooow times to be winning marathons. He's deliberately entering non-competitive ones so he can chalk up wins. I mean, c'mon, the Mississippi Marathon with a whole 147 participants? Pensacola with 258? Callaway with 53? Oooh, Tybee had 335! C'mon, get serious.

As I said, nothing wrong with his times, better than I could do, but don't hold him up as some world-beater when he's very obviously picking the least competitive marathons he can find. Perhaps he could go under 2:30 if he concentrated on 1-2 marathons a year; maybe, maybe not, but I wouldn't expect much more than that.


MB:

The word "a-hole"--your characterization of what I claimed you called Engle--is your word, not mine. I didn't accuse you of calling him that. I merely noted, in strong terms, that you've unwisely made an assumption about why he does what he does. To say "he's very obviously picking the least competitive marathons he can find" isn't just factually untrue--since he runs Boston, for example, and in about the same time as he runs his other weekly marathons--but it betrays a lack of understanding about how the southern running scene actually works. This isn't the Northeast; in order to run a marathon a week down here, a guy has to be willing to run in a lot of smaller races of the sort you mockingly invoke. It would have been equally true to characterize what Engle does by saying, "He obviously loves to run and pretty much runs every marathon within an 800 mile radius of Jackson." More true, probably. But I won't speculate.

As for bonding with Chuck: the truth is I'm always astonished by how runners, more than many subspecies, have a need not simply to kibbitz--i.e., evaluate Runner A vs. Runner B--but actively seek for reasons to sneer. You're sneering. I barely know the guy, as I say, but I have seen him in action. He's a brother runner, and a serious one, doing nobody any harm. The tone of your remarks above speak for themselves. He deserves better.

[This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Feb-24-2006).]

IP: Logged

MikeBro
Cool Runner
posted Feb-25-2006 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeBro   Click Here to Email MikeBro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, KR, but I'm going to stand by my opinion of what he's doing. I really wasn't aware that Olympia, WA was in the South, though. Thanks for clearing that up for me. That explains why it was so convenient for him to jog over there from Jackson, MS to run a 46-person marathon. Ditto for the one in Dallas, TX. It might technically be within your interesting "800-mile limit" (where'd you pull that one from?), but it's a long way to go for a small "local" marathon.

As someone pointed out, he has run some bigger marathons (but all that was pointed out was one 2 years ago, two 3 years ago, and two 4 years ago; there may be more but that's only a fraction of the number of tiny ones he seems to be running). I never said he ran "only" small marathons anyway--my comment was aimed at the seven CR found for him thus far this year. Since it should have been obvious I was commenting on those seven marathons, of the ones I looked up, it was pretty evident (to me anyway) what he was doing.

And I'll point out that you're making an assumption about his motivation in waving to slower runners as he loops back past them. There are other ways to interpret that behavior; you have chosen one that fits your assumption.

You're welcome to your assumptions. I'll be offline for a while, taking an exacto knife to all my U.S. maps to fix their incorrect placements of Washington State.

IP: Logged

AndyHass
Cool Runner
posted Feb-25-2006 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by obsessor:
I thought Kurtis' "record" was that of 40 marathon wins. (and obviously, I thought it was 40.)

He could not have maximized his potential, or darn close, running 5-7 marathons a year? You know this? How? Everyone has a certain # they can run in a year? Or in a lifetime? (while still remaining at the top of their game, that is.) Hmmm.

Was he purposely racing so much as to limit his potential?? I doubt that.


No matter how good you are, it takes some time to recover from a marathon. In order to get better, you not only need to recover but make gains towards the next level. While the amount of time this takes varies from individual to individual, you are not going to convince me that anyone can run 5-7 marathons per year and truly be making close to the advances they could on a more focused schedule. I bet if you looked at his progression you'd see no advancement during those frequent-racing years.

"Was he purposely racing so much as to limit his potential?? I doubt that."

You know this? How?

IP: Logged

rip van racer
Cool Runner
posted Feb-26-2006 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rip van racer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AndyHass:
you are not going to convince me that anyone can run 5-7 marathons per year and truly be making close to the advances they could on a more focused schedule.


How good would Dick Beardsley have been?

May 80 2:16:01

Sep. 80 2:15:11

Oct. 80 2:13:55

Jan 81 2:12:48

Feb 81 2:12:41

Mar 81 2:11:48

June 81 2:09:37

IP: Logged

AndyHass
Cool Runner
posted Feb-26-2006 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's a nice progression. However he only did it once, and for all we know it cost him a 2:08 (or maybe not...we'll never know for sure). I'm curious if he was ever able to improve after what had to have been a taxing effort. But he isn't Kurtis either, and that's what we were talking about. I have yet to see Kurtis's progression (maybe I'll go look and see if I can prove myself wrong).

IP: Logged

fredurie
Cool Runner
posted Feb-26-2006 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredurie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Doug could be one of the top 50 year olds in North America
if he was still putting in the mileage. The one thing he did to
limit injuries was run his 100 weekly miles @ 7 minute pace.

My buddy was a 51:xx at 10 miles, and he said he couldn't
hang with Kurtis on an indoor interval workout. Sometimes
the Michigan guys would cross the border to train indoors.

IP: Logged

rip van racer
Cool Runner
posted Feb-26-2006 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rip van racer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course Beardsley went on to run 2:08:53 at Boston in 82.

He attributed his ability to recover to his consistent 140 mile weeks. 30 mile training runs at 5:30-5:40 pace didn't hurt either.

There was a different mindset of the runners in the 70's and 80's. They rode the wave of the popularity of roadracing and never turned down a chance to compete. Whether it helped or hurt their overall accomplishments, no one will ever know.
They raced as much as they did because they were addicted to it and loved to do it. For some, it was also a chance to make enough money that they didn't have to work a regular job.

IP: Logged

sue
Cool Runner
posted Feb-26-2006 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue   Click Here to Email sue     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
looks like Chuck ran his fastest marathon so far this year, yesterday......2:36:24. The winner held him off to deny him his eighth win.

IP: Logged

AndyHass
Cool Runner
posted Feb-26-2006 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're certainly right. There were some racing machines back then. Greg Meyer raced amazingly frequently as well, just most were shorter distances. I believe Salazar and Rodgers did as well. Meyer and Salazar had their careers cut short by injuries, related to how hard they were pushing probably (both in frequent racing AND training). Meyer, specifically, noted that he should not have tried to be a marathoner as he felt he was too big and that's what led to his "demise".

This is completely diverging off the topic I guess, but I feel many of our current runners would be better served by racing more frequently than they do. Not necessarily marathons, but 10ks/10-milers and such. The presige isn't there, the payday is rarely there, but in the long term I think getting into the competition, stretching themselves, and mixing it up with faster runners more often would help them when a key marathon arrives.

IP: Logged

obsessor
Cool Runner
posted Feb-27-2006 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for obsessor   Click Here to Email obsessor     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know, Andy. But I just doubt he was "purposely" limiting himself. He may have possibly or probably limited himself, but I doubted the purpose of his frequent racing was to hinder his future racing.... maybe I just misread the intent of your original statement. In any case, there are some examples like D.B, who did get in to the 2:08:xx's, (and had more than a "good progression" - he was a rocket, but one that burned out too soon.) Oh, and I think Mr. Beardsley did run a 2:43 (or so???) in Napa Valley just last year; after the journey he's had - it's really incredible.

I think maybe, people in those years did not imagine that they could keep healthy and run competitively for many years to come. To race and win well into their 30's?? They would have laughed at you then, the model just wasn't there, (there were a few guys, but not as a rule.) I think they just thought to make hay while the sun shined. Some lasted, most did not. They burned themselves up.

I don't know how Kurtis ran them, either. If he followed some kind of strategy like running only ONE or TWO a year at maximum effort, with a good taper, I think he could go out and run 3 or 5 at at a quick hum without trashing his motor. I doubt he did that either as a conscious plan. But it could be done, no?

IP: Logged

fredurie
Cool Runner
posted Feb-27-2006 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredurie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Doug Kurtis ran 191 marathons.

http://www.halhigdon.com/books/boston.html

"Doug Kurtis felt comfortable running with the front pack. The Michigan State University graduate (who later in his career would run a record seventy-five marathons under 2:20) said: "I couldn't believe how easy the early pace felt. The first ten miles flew by. After that, I realized it was a hot day, and I was in over my head."

Between Framingham and Natick, they approached a reservoir on the right. Rodgers tapped Beardsley on the shoulder and pointed toward a couple in a canoe. "Wouldn't you like to be out in a canoe right now?" said Rodgers.

"No kidding," Beardsley replied."

[This message has been edited by fredurie (edited Feb-27-2006).]

IP: Logged

AndyHass
Cool Runner
posted Feb-27-2006 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While I was unable to find a comprehensive listing of Kurtis' times, he did run a 2:15 at age 42. So it is pretty clear a wind-aided PR of 2:13 is not near where he could have been when he was younger.

I'd agree that he likely wasn't purposely trying to limit himself, though that doesn't exclude my assertion that this was in fact the end result.

IP: Logged

KudzuRunner
Cool Runner
posted Feb-27-2006 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KudzuRunner   Click Here to Email KudzuRunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MikeBro:
Sorry, KR, but I'm going to stand by my opinion of what he's doing. I really wasn't aware that Olympia, WA was in the South, though. Thanks for clearing that up for me. That explains why it was so convenient for him to jog over there from Jackson, MS to run a 46-person marathon. Ditto for the one in Dallas, TX. It might technically be within your interesting "800-mile limit" (where'd you pull that one from?), but it's a long way to go for a small "local" marathon.

As someone pointed out, he has run some bigger marathons (but all that was pointed out was one 2 years ago, two 3 years ago, and two 4 years ago; there may be more but that's only a fraction of the number of tiny ones he seems to be running). I never said he ran "only" small marathons anyway--my comment was aimed at the seven CR found for him thus far this year. Since it should have been obvious I was commenting on those seven marathons, of the ones I looked up, it was pretty evident (to me anyway) what he was doing.

And I'll point out that you're making an assumption about his motivation in waving to slower runners as he loops back past them. There are other ways to interpret that behavior; you have chosen one that fits your assumption.

You're welcome to your assumptions. I'll be offline for a while, taking an exacto knife to all my U.S. maps to fix their incorrect placements of Washington State.


Let's play by your rules, then:

1) Of the seven marathons Engle has run this year, six are well within the 800-mile radius from Jackson, with the possible exception of Orlando, which may be 900 miles. They're in Mississippi, Georgia, the northern half of Florida, East Texas. I'm guessing you've never driven from Jackson to Dallas; I've done it a number of times. It's about 420 miles. Amazingly enough, that's not considered a terribly long drive in this neck of the woods; about six hours on the highway. You're quite right that the seventh marathon is in Washington--a much longer drive. I'd call that the exception that proves my point: It's at least as likely that Engle's multi-marathon behavior is a result of him wanting to run everything being offered in the mid-South as it is a result of him deliberately cherry-picking small easy races around the country.

2) I never said anything about Engle waving to slower runners. That was somebody else's comment--divechief's, I believe, who mentioned something about Engle having an "encouraging word" for every runner he passed. I haven't chosen evidence that fits my assumption; I was careful to insist that I didn't know Engle personally but had merely encountered him at a series of local races--races that pay very little to the winner, I should have added. (He's never waved at me, BTW.)


This particular horse has been beaten to a pulp, Mike. Let's give it a rest.

[This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Feb-27-2006).]

IP: Logged

rip van racer
Cool Runner
posted Feb-27-2006 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rip van racer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I disagree with the statement that these runners burnt out or didn't think they would be running after their forties. There are still many of these runners at a top level today. I just saw one of the top masters of that time Dan Conway is still leading the country in the 65-69 age group!! Doug Kurtis running 191 marathons and a 2:15 at 42 is not burning out. Bill Rodgers has been running at the top of his age group for over 30 years now and is really making a push for 2006 to lead the country in the 55-59 age group after not racing much last year. John Tuttle, Steve Spence, Dennis Simonaitis, Dan Garcia, Gary Rommessar. The list is endless

On a local level, masters often dominate the races overall and it is the same runners that were leading the races years ago.

Of course many had injuries that went on for years and eventually gave up and did something else, but that is far different from burning out.

IP: Logged

oldcolonial
Cool Runner
posted Mar-05-2006 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for oldcolonial   Click Here to Email oldcolonial     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Curtis really believed that he could not compete with the big dogs even if he identified one or two marathons per year. He did feel that he was able to come back fairly quickly from his sub 2:20 efforts. He was and probably still is interested in some amount of running fame and identified his (somewhat unique in his view) ability to string together once a month 2:20's as his best way of acquiring it.

IP: Logged

crunningman
Cool Runner
posted Mar-06-2006 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crunningman   Click Here to Email crunningman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He just keeps pounding them out.

Albritton Fruit Sarasota Marathon - Mar 5 - Sarasota, FL
Kenyan runner, Sylvester Daudi, took the honors at the inaugural Albritton Fruit Sarasota Marathon, winning in a time of 2:26:27.Chuck Engle, in his ninth marathon for 2006 ran his fastest time of the year, 2:31:34 to take second place. For those keeping score, Engle's 2006 record now stands at 7 wins and 2 second place finishes. His average finish time - with no special weighting of hard courses and easy courses - is 2:39:29.Third place went to Mike Aldrink of Durham NC in 2:34:14. Aldrink's credits include five marathons in 2005 including a win at the Carrolton Road Races and second place at the Delaware Marathon.

IP: Logged

KudzuRunner
Cool Runner
posted Mar-06-2006 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KudzuRunner   Click Here to Email KudzuRunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like he thrives under pressure. Competition is good.

Well, Chuck will CERTAINLY have to work a little harder to find small, uncompetitive marathons if he wants to make a living at it!

The real question--and I don't believe it's been asked, surprisingly--is what the man does on the other six days of the week, besides drive home from one marathon and out to the next. What sort of training regimen lets you heal from one marathon in a couple of days and taper for the next one the following weekend without allowing your base to evaporate? I'm genuinely curious how it works. I can't imagine he does much speedwork; I'm assuming the races are the speedwork and everything else is easy mileage. I'm also assuming that he's figured out exactly what works for him. (If this is all still an experiment, it's one heck of an experiment. And what DOES happen when he tapers for three weeks?)

[This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Mar-06-2006).]

IP: Logged

PacerChris
Cool Runner
posted Mar-06-2006 06:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PacerChris   Click Here to Email PacerChris     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On the off chance that he's reading this and he cares what anybody thinks of his running habits, I'll put my two cents in:
The guy's a stud, plain & simple. Not a world beater, but damn good. He's a lot faster than me for sure, and I marvel at his ability to recover. He's obviously decided he either likes the smaller towns or races, picking up a win, whatever - the guy can flat-out run. 2:31 with little to no rest is impressive. I don't know him, never talked to him, I was at a race he won this year - he could be a tremendous a-hole for all I know. But the guy obviously loves to run marathons, and dedicates an insane amount of time to it when you factor in travel time.

I say Good for him, and I'm impressed by his running. He probably does "cherry pick" to some degree to pick up a win...I'd do the same thing if I were better, and so would most people out there. So what? Like someone mentioned earlier, it's not a guarantee of a win. Plus if you're doing THAT many races, guess what - there isn't a mega-marathon every weekend of the year! Those races are usually too expensive to do more than a handful each year anyway, so it's probably less expensive and easier to schedule a lot of smaller races.

------------------
Pacer Dude

IP: Logged

AndyHass
Cool Runner
posted Mar-06-2006 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To run 2:31 after almost a marathon per week is truly, truly impressive. I find it hard to believe he couldn't get a 2:22 if he really wanted to, given his obvious ability to recover from running stresses.

IP: Logged

MikeBro
Cool Runner
posted Mar-07-2006 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeBro   Click Here to Email MikeBro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FWIW, a lurker with a 2:24 PR (who thinks he's in about 2:25 shape now) emailed me to comment that for anyone with his ability and experience, knocking out frequent 2:30-2:35 marathons wouldn't be all that taxing. Likewise, for a 2:30 marathoner like Chuck, running frequent 2:35-2:40 marathons wouldn't be that difficult. At their level, so I'm told, running a marathon at 10-15 sec per mile slower than your best pace is a huge difference and pretty much turns it into just another long run. (Which does make a sort of sense, as that's the estimated amount you'd slow if you were doubling the distance run, so that's really race pace for a 50+ mile race for these guys.)

My lurker friend's point is that the assumption that Chuck's always entering races still tired, in post-marathon recovery from the previous marathon, isn't correct, at least not for someone with his experience, running marathons at that effort level.

Mike

IP: Logged

MikeBro
Cool Runner
posted Mar-07-2006 09:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MikeBro   Click Here to Email MikeBro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PacerChris:
I say Good for him, and I'm impressed by his running. He probably does "cherry pick" to some degree to pick up a win...I'd do the same thing if I were better, and so would most people out there.

Actually, Chris, I don't think this is true. Not that I'm contradicting what you say you might do if you were at that level, but from what I see, most people at Chuck's level aren't doing what he's doing (or he wouldn't be picking up all those [for him] easy wins). I keep track of a number of runners in the 2:22 - 2:40 range, via email, blogs, forum postings, etc., and every one that I see is continually struggling to improve. They're throwing themselves in very competitive marathons in determined attempts to better their PRs, to get under 2:35, 2:30, 2:25, 2:22, whatever their next goal is. They're ensuring that there's always someone, often lots of someones, ahead of them to chase.

Chuck isn't, at least in the weekly marathons he's been running (the Sarasota marathon was a huge one for him -- 1,700 runners/joggers/walkers -- but it was the initial one and maybe there was no telling how big it would be). He seems like someone who's decided he's gotten as good as he's going to, and is now picking marathons he feels he can win with 2:35 - 2:45 efforts. IMO, and I guess people here disagree with me, you're not looking to improve if you're continually picking non-competitive marathons. As others have pointed out, it *could* be that he's just saving money, picking cheap marathons. Or it could be that he just likes to go out every weekend and give (for him) a sub-optimal effort and get some hardware.

Whatever his reasons, it seems to be what he wants to do, so it's working for him. But most people at his level are doing things differently, which works for them.

[This message has been edited by MikeBro (edited Mar-07-2006).]

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Time (US). > next newest topic | > next oldest topic
Topic is 14 pages:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Post a new topic    
Administrative Options: > Close Topic | > Archive/Move | > Delete Topic

Hop to:  
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

race directors shop my profile
Sponsored By

© 2016 Active Network, LLC and/or its affiliates and licensors. All rights reserved.
About Us | Advertising | Terms of Use | Copyright Policy | Cookie Policy | Security | Your Privacy Rights | Support
Cool Running Facebook Facebook | Cool Running Twitter Twitter | Newsletter Subscription
Race Directors | Running Events | Race Results | Running Tips | Pace Calculator | Couch to 5K | Running Forum | Running News