| Author |
Topic: Periodization vs. the Complex System |
runfastcoach
Cool Runner |
 posted Jan-28-2006 11:15 PM
   
Denton - The sub 2:20 guy I coached was American - from Colorado. The other gentleman was a 30 minute 10k guy who like do race xcountry and races up to half-marathon regularly. He did one run marathon in 2:26, I believe, before I coached him. Under my guidance, he ran about 40 seconds faster int he 10k and ran close to 24 minutes even in the 8k on the roads. I wish I could have worked with him longer. He really needed someone close to him to coach him. He wanted feedback on things I just couldn't give him over the internet. Hey, would you shoot me an email and explain your training idea. I just didn't get it all from the last post. I like to learn. A coach who knows it all is a lousy coach, if you ask me. Tinman
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runfastcoach
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-29-2006 02:23 AM
Sorry the the English grammar blunders. It is strange that when I type fast the information looks right, but when I look at it later I think to myself, "What in the world is that?" 
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DanMoriarity
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-29-2006 07:06 AM
quote:
Originally posted by runfastcoach:
A coach who knows it all is a lousy coach, if you ask me.
I couldn't agree more.
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denton
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-29-2006 03:49 PM
haha...grammar and me ...internet...... yeah the internet 'coaching' thing is tough.....hence why i call myself an advisor....i just happen to advise some quick athletes....although athletes require many varied needs I have always felt a coach is overrated....except in cases where the coach ruins the athlete....as long as good ol basic sound training is followed the athlete will progress.....tinman...will send a more in depth email later.....
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-23-2006 09:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by runfastcoach:
Denton - The sub 2:20 guy I coached was American - from Colorado. The other gentleman was a 30 minute 10k guy who like do race xcountry and races up to half-marathon regularly. He did one run marathon in 2:26, I believe, before I coached him. Under my guidance, he ran about 40 seconds faster int he 10k and ran close to 24 minutes even in the 8k on the roads. I wish I could have worked with him longer. He really needed someone close to him to coach him. He wanted feedback on things I just couldn't give him over the internet. Hey, would you shoot me an email and explain your training idea. I just didn't get it all from the last post. I like to learn. A coach who knows it all is a lousy coach, if you ask me. Tinman
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rengle
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-24-2006 11:17 PM
Pat Clohessey went to the University of Houston in the early 60s. He was also a Lydiard-trained runner who toured Europe in the summers with the original Lydiard group. He has occasionally been "blamed" by his countrymen for costing Ron Clarke the 10,000 meter gold in Tokyo because it was Clohessey who introduced Billy Mills to Lydiard training in 1963.
When Clohessey started coaching in Oz it dawned on him that the racing world had changed. Lydiard's athletes always tried to peak for "big" events, their own national championships and events like the Olympics or the British Commonwealth Games. But by the time Clohessey was coaching there were many other races that good runners wanted to be ready for and Clohessey reckoned that these runners wouldn't want to spend months away from racing form as they went through the early phases of the Lydiard program so he incorporated the elements of the Lydiard program into a typical training week, eventually calling it "complex" training. Arthur eventually came to a similar conclusion and developed his "race week/non-race week schedule which does the same thing.
Which is better? Hard to say. Lydiard's guys have all the Olympic hardware, but Clohessey's had more success with the marathon than Arthur did, but you have to remember that the marathon was not the glamorous event it's become so it wasn't as much a focal point. Lydiard's "periodized" guys did better on the track.
[This message has been edited by rengle (edited Oct-25-2006).]
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runawayjesse
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-25-2006 06:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AndyHass:
Neither. Doing the same thing year round is a great way to get into a rut. Straight periodization (aka Lydiard), IMO, requires specializing too much in one type of training for too long to the exclusion of others. I periodize somewhat, but still mix all types of runs into all periods. The emphasis just changes.
Andy do you care to explain? Seriously, I follow bits of your training in the weekly summaries thread but I'm courious exactly how you go about it.
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Sun Raider
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-28-2006 04:20 PM
My very best season was done through modified periodization. I spent 4 months running miles (70-80 mpw) then transitioned to some continuous hills for 4-5 weeks with some early season races which I kept from running all out but kept at hard tempo pace. Then I dropped my miles, did one month of intervals (once a week) and then dropped my miles further and just raced. No other speedwork.It was rather amazing. For the next 4 months none of the guys who normally were around me in races, were able to beat me. I kept getting faster until I finally ran out of wind for my sails after about 8 quality races varing from 5K to 10 miles. It took discipline. My early season tempo race pace for 5 miler was eventually 10 seconds a mile slower than the pace I ran for 10 miler during my race phase. In our "I have to race every race my friends are doing and be vanilla" culture there is little hope for runners to hit their peak performances. Focus and periodization, if done well, can help runners achieve times they only dreamed of. I found that once I understood that I could not race all year round and hope to see peak times, I adjusted. It may not have been pure Lydiard but it was as close as I could get. Just cruise around the forums and see how many runners run marathons like they were 10K's. One thing though. I was always race ready in a manner of speaking. So I could race at the drop of hat. I just chose not to. Raider
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Zapatista
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-16-2006 04:19 PM
Marathon training did force me into periodization. Other than that I did a long run and some speedwork every week, with less speed in the winter and more in the summer. After one summer where my long runs were only 10 miles and was at the track every other day, doing intervals or time trials, my times flattened out in the fall and I commited myself to high mileage and felt turbocharged for the next six months, running most of my PRs. I read an article by Andy Palmer in 1995 on periodization and went overboard, doing nothing but long slow runs for three months. I enjoyed the runs but found my self struggling to run under seven minutes when just a few months earlier I was running 5Ks at 6:30.
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fredurie
Cool Runner |
posted Aug-05-2007 11:45 AM
Bump
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ca marathoner
Member |
posted Aug-25-2007 07:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by megapronator:
Tinman - I have a fairly prominent coach who has me doing a very much Lydiard type schedule. It has very sharp transitions, which as I understand it is typical of Lydiard. I've read one of Lydiard's books, and my coach got much of this schedule directly from Lydiard and Nobby themselves. Basically, every 4 weeks once a purely base training period is over, the schedule changes into something completely different. It is true that base training isn't strictly LSD as most people think of it, as I'm doing a fair amount of training along the lines of "best aerobic effort" which is ending up something faster than just easy, but still well short of LT pace.I do find the transitions are very rough, and likely contributed to my injury problems last fall. Other athletes of his have had more clear cut injury issues due the the harsh transitions in training. Personally, for myself and the runners I coach, I like mixing in a little of everything year round, and the periodization come from gradual and relatively subtle changes in the mixture of training. While this might lessen the peak just a bit, it decreases the odds of mistiming the peak, decreases injury problems as Tinman said, and allows for better and less damaging racing in the off-peak times. For now, however, I'm giving my coach's approach a chance to see if that can take me to the next level when properly directed.
Megapronator,
Not trying to turn this into a Lydiard thread, But you illustrate a common but an important misconception about the Lydiard method ( I have done the same in the past). The transitions should not be sharp into each phase, but rather "doing the home work" by gradually transitioning from one phase to another. Lydiard stated it is important to stay in touch with your speed throughout the year. You are correct the marathon/basebuilding phase is by no means LSD. Next training cycle try gradually working the next phase in until you have fully implemented into that phase. May help with the injury reduction. All the best to you.
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