| Author |
Topic: Runner killed by car while wearing headphones |
Arrojo
Cool Runner |
 posted Oct-08-2007 10:07 AM
   
Tell me again why people run with headphones?Police say Draves was wearing an MP3 player on her arm, leading them to believe she did not hear Hampu's vehicle approaching. This is a terrible tragedy, it seems, that could have been avoided.
[This message has been edited by Arrojo (edited Oct-08-2007).]
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LewJ
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 10:22 AM
Yes, a sad tragedy.This is exactly why runners ought to be running AGAINST traffic, not with it, and should LOOK before crossing. Depending on your ears instead of your eyes is a dangerous thing to do. Too many things that can hurt or kill you don't make much noise. Examples include bicycle s, hybrid/electric cars, and some motorcycles. Let's not devolve this into a specious argument against headphones as Arrojo seems to be trying to do.
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flobaby
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 10:33 AM
Look on the bright side. Since headphones are so toxic, you'll have less competition once the headphone-wearing-running-population all get slaughtered during our runs.[This message has been edited by flobaby (edited Oct-08-2007).]
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saviorfaire
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 10:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LewJ:
Yes, a sad tragedy.This is exactly why runners ought to be running AGAINST traffic, not with it, and should LOOK before crossing. Depending on your ears instead of your eyes is a dangerous thing to do. Too many things that can hurt or kill you don't make much noise. Examples include bicycle s, hybrid/electric cars, and some motorcycles. Let's not devolve this into a specious argument against headphones as Arrojo seems to be trying to do.
I think local laws dictate walkers and runners must run against traffic. I know this is the law in NJ.
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dg12
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 10:48 AM
Tell us instead why drivers are not being safe? I used to run (4 yrs.) on a county road with a big shoulder, running against traffic of course. Typically drivers would take all the shoulder on the curves. A few times drivers would cross lanes to raz me within 6-8 feet. That is totally criminal. It appeared THEY were wearing headphones.Tell us why some drivers are irresponsible? Why do some drivers kill cyclists?
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iLoveNature
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 10:57 AM
Wow, just 15. Even more sad since she had barely begun her life.
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NHSenior
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LewJ:
Yes, a sad tragedy.This is exactly why runners ought to be running AGAINST traffic, not with it, and should LOOK before crossing. Depending on your ears instead of your eyes is a dangerous thing to do. Too many things that can hurt or kill you don't make much noise. Examples include bicycle s, hybrid/electric cars, and some motorcycles. Let's not devolve this into a specious argument against headphones as Arrojo seems to be trying to do.
It's always interesting to notice how people with an agenda will point out something else to avoid dealing the issue at hand. An argument does not become specious because you don't want to address the facts involved in the headphone issue. With your logic, nothing dangerous is worth avoiding simply because other dangers exist. You wouldn't be a manager working for me with thinking like that. <<<Depending on your ears instead of your eyes is a dangerous thing to do. Check out this guys thinking process folks. Use your eyes instead of your ears, really. let's see, my eyes can only see perhaps a 110 degree field of vision, if it isn't dark. Seems to me the last time I heard stuff it came from 360 degrees and globally in all up and down directions first. Why in nature did almost all animals get great hearing and relatively poor eye sight. Well,dah. how well do your eyes see beyond the edge of the trees or around the corner of a downtown building.
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bigpoppapump
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:14 AM
"Why in nature did almost all animals get great hearing and relatively poor eye sight."actually - for the sake of accuracy - the fact is that most hunters in nature have front of face eyes, while most prey have side of head eyes. Hunters need the front facers to be able to judge distance, while prey go for the field of vision thing. nothing to do with this tragedy, or headphones in general, but thought you'd be interested...
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jjwaverly42
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:15 AM
I think the point of this death is that you never know when it is your last day. So forgive your loved ones, and make peace now. Make that trip to Paris now. Don't put things off!
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VictorN
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:28 AM
The police cheif says "The road is designed for vehicle traffic not pedestrian traffic and that neighborhood does not have sidewalks," as if that somehow justifies the killing. Yes, the girl did three things wrong (running with her back to traffic, running with headphones, and possibly stepping out into traffic without looking, who knew if she was running with reflective gear) but that comment sickens me. It appears this was a neighborhood street, not a major road, if Google maps can be trusted.Victor ------------------
www.competitiverunner.com
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danadear
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by VictorN:
The police cheif says "The road is designed for vehicle traffic not pedestrian traffic and that neighborhood does not have sidewalks," as if that somehow justifies the killing. Yes, the girl did three things wrong (running with her back to traffic, running with headphones, and possibly stepping out into traffic without looking, who knew if she was running with reflective gear) but that comment sickens me. It appears this was a neighborhood street, not a major road, if Google maps can be trusted.Victor
I believe he was stating this as a way of explanation because they had no basis for charging the driver. The driver was not speeding.
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bigapplepie
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by VictorN:
The police chief says "The road is designed for vehicle traffic not pedestrian traffic and that neighborhood does not have sidewalks," as if that somehow justifies the killing.
Victor
Unfortunately, that's a generic problem in the US. I once tried running on a sidewalk next to a 6 lane road in Fresno. Every so often the sidewalk would just stop and I'd be forced to run on the road with traffic coming towards me at 50 mph.Still, at the end of the day I made it to Starbucks.
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MichiganFlyer
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:52 AM
I don't mean to be mean but....You are not supposed to be walking or jogging in the road.
The road is for cars. That is why road construction workers must put tons of flashing lights and signs out on their jobs because even with the signs people still go too fast. So imagine without a sign or warning you do not expect people in the road. You should run in the grass or shoulder. Now that I have said that I like to run in the road because its softer and yes I have been foolishly dangerous many times but in this case the driver was not at fault. It was 8:10 pm so probably dark out.
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NHSenior
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 11:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by bigpoppapump:
"Why in nature did almost all animals get great hearing and relatively poor eye sight."actually - for the sake of accuracy - the fact is that most hunters in nature have front of face eyes, while most prey have side of head eyes. Hunters need the front facers to be able to judge distance, while prey go for the field of vision thing. nothing to do with this tragedy, or headphones in general, but thought you'd be interested...
I'm always interested in facts and details because it gives rise to getting to what counts. Forums most often are playgrounds of messenger shooters and motive seekers as if 2 and 2 were not 4 simply because they didn't like the attitude of the mathematician. Actually, for the sake of accuracy, survival is the strongest instinct in animals (accept humans for really stupid reasons) Nature takes care of most animals without a strong survival gene before they get old enough to bred. Humans have evolved beyond that. Animals will go without food for long periods of time and forgo the need to eat (hunt) without reservation if they think they are in danger. If you were a hunter you would know that unless the quarry is in an open field, most often you do not see it. And with a vary rare exception most animals will not see you unless you move even if you have have on the most bright and gaudy colors. So sight is not the best friend of either hunter, or prey. If you were a hunter, you would know that most of time you only see your prey when it moves, but most often since neither of you can see the other, sound plays the most important part. Sound screws up the hunter by giving a hunters presence away. Doesn't matter if the prey can see it, they know trouble is a foot. Things are not entire one-way with sound. Sound often gives the hunter a very good idea of where to look, particularly in poor lighting conditions. If you know how the eye and brain work, you would know that we don't often see things that we haven't seen before or that we have trouble seeing something when we think we know what it looks like but this time it is different. Sound doesn't work that way. Sound is quite a reactive sense in that you hear things you may not recognize and most often those trigger your attention quicker than known sounds. Try finding people in a crowd even when you know what they look like. People can be standing right in front of you and you don't see them. I run with an ear bud on the bike path which is near where I live, but that doesn't mean I'm dumb enough to think that I get away with it in most other situations. Regardless of any of this: "look both ways before crossing the street is still good advice" but that does not add to or diminish the high value of sound.
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saviorfaire
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 12:07 PM
I work in NYC and take the train in from the Newark area. On a daily basis I see literally, 100s of people with cell phone glued to their heads, electronic gadgets(BlackBerry, PDA, hand held game) MP3 Player, etc..etc... occupying their attendion.They all have the same, blank, empty, oblivious look in their eyes. Completely tuned out to what is going on around them. I've see people walk right out in front of oncoming traffic because they were paying attention to their Blackberry email. I even was standing right next to someone who walked right behind a construction dump truck backing into the World Trade Center site because his eyes were glued to his Blackberry, and not paying attention to the construction workers who stopped pedestrian traffic so the truck could enter the site.
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d3finition
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 12:16 PM
I usually run in this carpark near my house and theres a pretty long stretch and very few cars pass through it and people tend to walk through that stretch where I run along too.There was this once I decided to change a different running course because it was getting stale and I just ran around the neighbourhood and crossed a few roads etc. I don't know about you guys, but when I'm out waiting for the traffic lights with cars passing by me I get this really insecure feeling as though I might get banged down any second. There has been also many cases of me speeding up to catch up to a traffic light and what not. My suggestion would be NEVER to run on any kind of roads where cars are moving. Personally I don't fancy my ipod accompanying me on runs but I feel that using one during a run is really compromising on your safety. I think when one is running, your awareness is already compromised in that you are focused on your pacing, HR, split times, breathing, cadence etc. Further limiting your senses doesn't seem rationale to me.
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martinjames
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 12:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by saviorfaire:
I work in NYC and take the train in from the Newark area. On a daily basis I see literally, 100s of people with cell phone glued to their heads, electronic gadgets(BlackBerry, PDA, hand held game) MP3 Player, etc..etc... occupying their attendion.They all have the same, blank, empty, oblivious look in their eyes. Completely tuned out to what is going on around them. I've see people walk right out in front of oncoming traffic because they were paying attention to their Blackberry email. I even was standing right next to someone who walked right behind a construction dump truck backing into the World Trade Center site because his eyes were glued to his Blackberry, and not paying attention to the construction workers who stopped pedestrian traffic so the truck could enter the site.
That's it. I am converted. I am now firmly against running while using a Blackberry, PDA, or hand-held game, including PSPs & Gameboys. Stop The Madness. I think their barred in most races -- and rightly so.
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tss1201
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 12:21 PM
I used to live in a neighborhood where there were no sidewalks or shoulders to run on -- from that cop's quote, it sounds like this might have been the case with that girl's neighborhood. I am not sure what pedestrians were supposed to do. I always ran/walked facing traffic, but still. There were people in that neighborhood who did not drive -- their primary means of transportation was walking. I think it's awful that there are such pedestrian-unfriendly neighborhoods.I had a scary experience a few weeks ago -- I was out running and crossing a downtown street. I had the right of way (the walk light was on). There was a car turning left onto the street. Now, there are huge signs on every street here that say, "Yield to pedestrians when turning." This guy obviously wasn't looking, and he almost hit me. He stopped the car, rolled down the window, and started yelling at me. I was so freaked out and dumbstruck -- all I could do was stand there and point to the walk light. He looked at it, then hit the gas and screeched off. I no longer run through that intersection -- I walk, very, very carefully.
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LewJ
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 12:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NHSenior:
It's always interesting to notice how people with an agenda will point out something else to avoid dealing the issue at hand.
Exactly my point. There were several factors leading to that young woman's death. Being on the wrong side of the road, not looking before going out into the road, and not being able to hear the vehicle coming turned out to be deadly. As you note, some are leveraging her death to further their anti-headphone agenda and avoiding the other contributory issues. The rest of your baiting isn't worth the trouble of responding.
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VictorN
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 12:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
You are not supposed to be walking or jogging in the road.
The road is for cars.
That is absurd. Around here, if I didn't run in the road, I wouldn't have anyplace to run. That is true for most runners in VT, and true for most rural and and many suburban runners throughout the country. Rural roads don't have sidewalks, and many suburban roads don't have sidewalks. I've also lived in the suburbs of Boston, and there as well if you wanted to run, you ran in the streets, especially during the winter. I frequently visit my mother-in-law in suburban CT and there are no sidewalks there either. Only when I lived in downtown Boston was it possible to run any distance on sidewalks. Victor ------------------
www.competitiverunner.com
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muzicgrl
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 01:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
I don't mean to be mean but....You are not supposed to be walking or jogging in the road.
The road is for cars.
Then someone needs to tell all the cars in my neighborhood to stop parking on the sidewalk. I cannot run through parked cars so I choose to run on the road, against traffic, and yes with my dreaded headphones. You know what...the only time cars have come close to hitting me was when I was in crosswalks crossing streets and you know who wasnt paying attention in those cases...the fing drive of the car...not me!
This case was a sad tragic accident caused be a teenager making a MISTAKE and not looking before she crossed the road.
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djsteveboy
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 01:09 PM
How about I start posting all the Runner Killed by Car While NOT Wearing Headphones articles, too? Bet there's at least as many of those.------------------
DJ Steve Boyett
"Podrunner" -- FREE workout Music Mixes
Download from iTunes or directly from http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html
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Arrojo
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 01:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by djsteveboy:
How about I start posting all the Runner Killed by Car While NOT Wearing Headphones articles, too? Bet there's at least as many of those.
Someone doesn't have both oars in the water. Cause and effect is the relationship between two things when one thing makes something else happen. Your post is like saying, in response to an article about how someone died of lung cancer due in part from smoking, "How about I start posting all the articles about people who died from cancer and didn't smoke?
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thejoggler
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 02:11 PM
Well, you could post stories about the thousands of hours people spend running while listening to headphones and nothing happens. They don't die. One story does not prove cause and effect.------------------
Learn to joggle - sport of the future. http://justyouraveragejoggler.com
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sully702
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 02:17 PM
People running with their ipods does not have to be a safety issue. I run with mine all the time, on busy streets, and I can hear traffic. With or without an ipod, a runner has to be aware of their surroundings. It's probably more dangerous to run with your head down.
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