| Author |
Topic: Runner killed by car while wearing headphones |
Harper
Cool Runner |
 posted Oct-08-2007 02:19 PM
  
Why does everyone just assume headphones/mp3 player imply she couldn't hear anything? Did they check the volume on her player?I live in downtown Chicago and many of my miles are on busy city streets. I don't rely 100% on my eyesight or 100% on my hearing. It's a combination of all senses. I run with my iPod maybe a third of the time, and it's never caused me to "not hear" a car. Perhaps the woman that died just wasn't paying enough attention. Perhaps the driver wasn't. Perhaps they both weren't. Or perhaps rather than using the tired scape goat of MP3 players, we should just blame violent video games. And Marilyn Manson.
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Mort82
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 02:33 PM
I blame the media.The story would not have made headlines she was middle aged and it was a factory worker driving the vehicle.
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djsteveboy
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 04:35 PM
Anyone who is hit by a car *because* he or she is running with headphones, should be. Pointing out runs-with-scissors stories seems futile to me -- if you're dumb enough to do it, warnings probably won't help, and the best anybody can hope is that you didn't live long enough to reproduce and pee in the gene pool.I'm not trying to be glib; the universe itself isn't just indifferent to an absence of survival instinct, it's downright accommodating. ------------------
DJ Steve Boyett
"Podrunner" -- FREE workout Music Mixes
Download from iTunes or directly from http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html
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mcsolar99
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 08:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arrojo:
Tell me again why people run with headphones?
people like me run with headphones because we have a death wish. i think the mistake i'm making though is running on the sidewalk too much, or against traffic when there is no sidewalk. i guess that i need to turn up the volume louder. (psst - i'm questioning your motivation for posting a dumb-@ss line like that for your link to this tragedy arrojo. will it ease the pain her parents are feeling? thanks for using this tragic story as a vehicle to express your beliefs.  ) [This message has been edited by mcsolar99 (edited Oct-08-2007).]
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djsteveboy
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-08-2007 09:50 PM
Pamploma iPod Wearer Struck By Bulls!
Film at Eleven.------------------
DJ Steve Boyett
"Podrunner" -- FREE workout Music Mixes
Download from iTunes or directly from http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html
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tigger
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 08:39 AM
In the end it's not about who was right and who was wrong. Runners make mistakes. Auto drivers make mistakes too. Not all mistakes result in fatalities, but some do. A human body doesn't have much chance against a ton of steel travelling at high speed, and runners need to understand that and act accordingly. It is better to be wrong and alive than right and dead.
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fuzz
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 11:40 AM
page 2 and still no one has asked where they found headphones big enough for the car<runs away>
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djsteveboy
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 03:09 PM
Maybe because the play on words only works if you remove "while," or if the line reads "Car kills runner wearing headphones."------------------
DJ Steve Boyett
"Podrunner" -- FREE workout Music Mixes
Download from iTunes or directly from http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html
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qwestman
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 04:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Arrojo:
Someone doesn't have both oars in the water. Cause and effect is the relationship between two things when one thing makes something else happen. Your post is like saying, in response to an article about how someone died of lung cancer due in part from smoking, "How about I start posting all the articles about people who died from cancer and didn't smoke?
I think it is a very valid point he is making. you are implying it is not safe to wear headphones because this girl was killed while wearing headphones..using that same logic many runners have been killed while running without headphones so you shouldn't be running at all. However, you are a runner right? I'm assuming you are since you are on this board.
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qwestman
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 05:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by djsteveboy:
Anyone who is hit by a car *because* he or she is running with headphones, should be. Pointing out runs-with-scissors stories seems futile to me -- if you're dumb enough to do it, warnings probably won't help, and the best anybody can hope is that you didn't live long enough to reproduce and pee in the gene pool.I'm not trying to be glib; the universe itself isn't just indifferent to an absence of survival instinct, it's downright accommodating.
I'm willing to bet if you did a study you would find you have a higher chance of dying in a car wreck then running with headphones on. Are you willing to give up driving? I don't think running with headphones makes you smart or dumb. you are simply taking a risk to gain. (a small risk at that considering how many poeple run with headphones in relation to how many people die while running with headphones).
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djsteveboy
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 09:46 PM
What I'm willing to give up -- and have -- is running where the damned cars are. You gotta be Einstein to figure that one out?------------------
DJ Steve Boyett
"Podrunner" -- FREE workout Music Mixes
Download from iTunes or directly from http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html
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NHSenior
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 10:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by qwestman:
I'm willing to bet if you did a study you would find you have a higher chance of dying in a car wreck then running with headphones on. Are you willing to give up driving? I don't think running with headphones makes you smart or dumb. you are simply taking a risk to gain. (a small risk at that considering how many people run with headphones in relation to how many people die while running with headphones).
The focus on the words "die" or "killed" tends to put the numbers out to where the chance of dying in a car wreck as being greater, but that would be simple numeric superiority. Reality says that the ratio of deaths via car wreck to the number of car wrecks would be a low number compared to the number headphone wearers deaths if the wearer were hit by a car. In other words, if we have 10 car wrecks will we have even one death, but if we have 5 headphone car incidents would not 1 or 2 deaths be highly likely. You know, 89 to 225 pound soft fleshy thing and 3000 pounds hard fast thing. Risk evaluation is almost always mitigated by the "NEED" to assume the risk. Most people need to drive the car, it isn't all that optional. Wearing a headphone is almost alway optional. (other than for those that say "I just can't possibley run without my music.") Both the ratio and need of the headphone side make it seem quite dumb to do. IMO Most people can easily see that even if riding a motorcycle held no more risk than driving a car, that if there is an accident, the injury and death ratio goes off the chart and that is with a helmet on. Ride without the helmet and you need to borrow another chart. But that is another sport which has another big "don't tell me what to do" factor. Sort of like the headphone users where their "vested interest" clouds their survival instincts. At least the motorcycle riders don't try to BS the world that it isn't very risky. They know it is and take the risk. [This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Oct-09-2007).]
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NHSenior
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 10:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NHSenior:
At least the motorcycle riders don't try to BS the world that it isn't very risky. They know it is and take the risk.[This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Oct-09-2007).]
Whoda thunk it. More candor and recognition of reality from those that many consider 2 digit IQ Neanderthals, helmets or not. Careful there NHSenior, you may have just insulted someone, or you have just created an odd pairing of allies.
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pack fan
Member |
posted Oct-09-2007 10:57 PM
OK, so I don't frequent this board that often but NHS, are you suggesting that the act of running with headphones in place in any environment is a danger equated with motorcycling helmetless or only running with headphones in traffic? The latter I would agree with, the former.....guess I never thought I was recklessly endangering myself running on the traffickless paths around the lake while listening to CME on my ipod. Who woulda thunk it?
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NHSenior
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-09-2007 11:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by pack fan:
OK, so I don't frequent this board that often but NHS, are you suggesting that the act of running with headphones in place in any environment is a danger equated with motorcycling helmetless or only running with headphones in traffic? The latter I would agree with, the former.....guess I never thought I was recklessly endangering myself running on the traffickless paths around the lake while listening to CME on my ipod. Who woulda thunk it?
No I'm not suggestiong the simple act of running with a headphone is reckless. There is a point in a discussion where it is inefficient to qualify every reference to how the how headphones are used with "we are talking about on roads or way too often as some step carelessly onto a road. You may have joined this at a point where nobody has said that specifically, but with all the reference to cars and roads and traffic, you not noticing that your question was going to be answered by a NO is strange. In another context one could say you might have even have been trying to ridicule me with with what I obviously (to others) didn't mean. That is a very common tactic used by many here when they really can't come up anything solid to use for their position. I apologize if I'm wrong but I'm way too prone to believe that because the rampant use of the tactic. Have I been fair in trying to establish where you are coming from? So let's just say you really didn't know we were not talking about about where you say you wear yours, and so that someone else doesn't get confused on the delineation again, I am talking about on the roads and in races to further access risk. Anyway, I too wear headphone on bike path near where I live. It is out in a wooded area where the roads are level and the shoulder is level and one doesn't really have to run on the roads but I use the bike path just because is more organize for lack of a better reason. There are few bikes on it. I will say that it is not risk free and I might see 3 people on a 4 mile run and yet I've been startled enough because you really don't hear as well with a headset. What does amaze me is the number of times when I 'm drifting to the left that that will be the time that a rare bike will come up behind me. Perhaps it seem more often because of the startle factor. and what annoys me even more is the number of times my Ipod shuffle is dead the next night because I drop the earphones around my neck during the last 3 tenths of mile as I run on the road down a side street to the dead end little street I live on. By the time I get inside the house I forget I left the ipod on. I wish it was like my little radio that shuts off in 60 minutes by itself. I don't have hearing problems so it is easy to see that I can't hear as well with the headphones on because I've been on the giving and taking end of friends try to catch up with one another on the run as we come out from our homes. We yell for each other to slow down and wait but many times we just don't hear.
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maryt
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-10-2007 07:14 AM
Why is this even an argument? Stepping out in the street in front of car while wearing headphones... Come on, people, is there anyone who really doesn't think the headphones contributed? I don't think it's a matter of volume - I've seen many times where hearing wasn't a factor at all but rather that the headphone wearer was not paying attention to what was going on in the environment, presumably focused on the music instead. That includes not only stepping off a sidewalk when cars are coming (I've been the car in more than one occasion, but fortunately have always been able to avoid the runner), but the things I've see in races as well - running right past a finish line, missing a water stop during a race and back-tracking - things that involve attention, not hearing. There is no question that headphones are a distraction, and if people are going to wear them regardless, they need to be aware of that fact and try to be more aware of what is going on around them.
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qwestman
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-10-2007 10:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by NHSenior:
The focus on the words "die" or "killed" tends to put the numbers out to where the chance of dying in a car wreck as being greater, but that would be simple numeric superiority.Reality says that the ratio of deaths via car wreck to the number of car wrecks would be a low number compared to the number headphone wearers deaths if the wearer were hit by a car. In other words, if we have 10 car wrecks will we have even one death, but if we have 5 headphone car incidents would not 1 or 2 deaths be highly likely. You know, 89 to 225 pound soft fleshy thing and 3000 pounds hard fast thing.
2007).]
You misunderstood. actually I was talking in general throughout a lifetime. If I'm a runner who wears headphones on the side of the road while i run everyday and I also drive 10 miles to and from work everyday, chances of me passing away by way of a car wreck are more likely then being hit by a car while running with headphones throughout my 80 year life. I'm not saying you have a higher risk of dying if you DO get in a car wreck vs if you DO get hit by a car while running. that's pretty obvious.
I agree on the need vs risk being mitigated. However, this is not a constant for everyone. Everyone has different needs and motivations. Maybe this girl wouldn't have the motivation to run if she didn't have music resulting in poor health due to no excersize. maybe she took a risk to better her health. Unfortunatley, she was unlucky and risk got the better of her. but to come out and say "no one should wear headphones while running on the side of the road because look what happens if you do" is ridiculous. If I applied this same logic to all facets of my life I would be a motionless vegetable afraid to do anything. I think we agree on some points and disagree on others. [This message has been edited by qwestman (edited Oct-10-2007).]
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NHSenior
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-10-2007 10:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by maryt:
Why is this even an argument? Stepping out in the street in front of car while wearing headphones... Come on, people, is there anyone who really doesn't think the headphones contributed? .
Mary, There are many who spend half their life on these forums who will say that headphones are safe. You and I and most normal people know they are unsafe, but these forum seem to attract those that have agendas or vested interests in the points at hand. A vested interest almost always influence veracity. The posters who say headphone of not unsafe present a problem to normal rational thinking people in these forum. If you say they ("they" being the "It's safe" people) are stupid because they don't get it, you are a bad guy and unkind. If you say they are lying because they really know they are unsafe but are disingenuous in their postings you will be shot as an unkind messenger who turns people off. (Mostly them because they have no other retort for getting caught lying) If you misspell something, they will attempt to equate that to your lineage and IQ. If you point out that they didn't read the damn response or imply they don't know how to read or put cohesive thoughts together, then you are an elitist. Their logic is, well there is logic, but it doesn't go from A to B to C to D as does logic that works. They are real good at finding words that are good words about the subject but many of their conclusions have me going like "I see word I recognize but what the hell does that equate to ???" What they don't realize is that most people know they do this stuff like it was wearing a badge. Most normal people (the majority of the readers) don't post because they don't want waste their time arguing with an idiot or don't want to subject themselves to the frustrations of people whose only defense to questions is to toss out red herrings. So they [the red herring folks] get false courage and think they must be right because the preponderance of posters seem like them. There is no question that I'm not normal and I don't mind going after them. I've never suffered fools gladly. I will say it is more challenge here than dealing with these folks in person. In person they only have to look around to see the eyes and expression of those present to know the crowd isn't buying their BS. Sadly for the sake of my jollies I don't get a chance to enjoy seeing them see that look in person because often they don't go beyond the first few words because then know that BS is going to come out of their mouth. Forced peer pressure is a wonderful thing, something that is missing in the forums The point being, they live to just be here and find whatever they can to be contratary. But I've told you nothing you don't already know. [This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Oct-10-2007).] [This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Oct-10-2007).]
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pinklady
Member |
posted Oct-10-2007 10:27 AM
questman wrote:
"Everyone has different needs and motivations."
I think that is the best statement in this whole discussion.
Everyone is different. Life is about making choices and risk management because in today's world there is a certain amount of risk in almost everything we do.
So we have to make choices.
I know someone who was with her friend when she was hit by a car while running. Neither woman was wearing headphones. In that case it was early morning and the sun glare caused visibility problems for both the driver of the car and the runner. Personally, I am more distracted if I am running with someone else and "chatting" than if I am running with headphones. But that is me, and that is the point that questman made. Everyone is different. You can try to control your environment as much as you want but terrible accidents are still going to happen.
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NHSenior
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-10-2007 10:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by qwestman:
Maybe this girl wouldn't have the motivation to run if she didn't have music resulting in poor health due to no excessive. maybe she took a risk to better her health. I think we agree on some points and disagree on others.
I like your way of responding, it is refreshing (I mean that) I suppose there would be no point in everyone agreeing, what would we debate (argue about) otherwise. The problem, which you bring up by the use of "maybe"s, is you are pointing out things (the need to use music as motivation excepted though not necessarily condoned) which are generally out side the bell curve of the majority of reason why people do stuff. There will always be "outside the bell curve" examples that can be used to seemingly bolster ones point. The annoying (and I'm not saying you are annoying) part of those points is they are statistically and practically useless pieces and information which cause nothing but fights between those who use them and those that know extreme things are meaningless to decisions or actions or need. It was like the silly movement to have all kids in Little league baseball wear a chest protector because a kid got hit in the chest with a ball and died. The kids died and that was a fact, a chest protector probably would have kept him from dying, but if any number of kids hadn't gone out their front door to go to a baseball game then many of those kid would not have been hit by cars on the way to the game. Using the logic see way too often here people would have us get rid of front doors. And some say I'm over protective on the headphone thing. Maybe I was lucky years ago when during a physical with a new doctor when he asked me about smoking, drinking, and other health habits. That wasn't odd, but then he asked me if I road a motorcycle, scuba dived, sky dived. I looked at him like he had 3 heads and then he explained that since he was taken me on as a new patient he wanted to see how much judgment I might have in assuming risk. Some one who assumes risk often ignores the instinct to survive and that makes that person generally harder to be doctor for. That was a pearl of an experience. That didn't turn me into a scardicat but it changed how I think about reality. I loved riding my motorcycle back then but I'd dumped it twice on a slick manhole cover, I had two young kids and I'm very outdoors physical and the clarity of my non-existence or impaired existence due to risk just burst upon me and I sold the bike soon after. I'd really really like to fly an ultra-light plane but there is just no percentage in it. I do take some risks, I whitewater canoe and kayak but as I get older, reaction time deficiencies make that riskier. That fact that my Ipod would get ruined is one reason not to wear it. but not hearing a loud roar around the bend on somewhat strange river in hilly country during a few days of heavy rain can kill you. Water levels can change in mintues sometimes and nasty stuff can get damed up down river in no time. [This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Oct-10-2007).]
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Arrojo
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-10-2007 09:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mcsolar99:
i'm questioning your motivation for posting a dumb-@ss line like that for your link to this tragedy arrojo. will it ease the pain her parents are feeling? thanks for using this tragic story as a vehicle to express your beliefs.
I am no more posting in this forum to ease the pain of her parents over this tragedy than you are. My motivation is maybe, just maybe to help someone (clearly not you) understand the inherent risk in wearing headphones while running in traffic. Maybe, just maybe, I'm not being disingenuous at all, but rather, incredulous as to why people would take such stupid risks. Guess I really am a dumb-ass if I have to ask, though, because it must be obvious to everyone.
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djpower
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-10-2007 10:27 PM
wow...some of you people have a lot of time on your hands...if you are like me and you finely decided to skip over what can only be described as a message board equivalent of "someone who likes to hear themselves talk" here is a refreshing change of topic... Did anyone notice that the guy who was driving the car was, according to the OP's link, teaching Social Studies at the age of 20 years old! That's amazing and would never happen now! oh yeah...don't run with the damn volume turn all the way up...it's bad for your ears
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