posted Oct-20-2007 10:42 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazze:
Thanks. That's pretty much the impression I got from reading Mark Allens article. The discussion on a danish board (which brought my attention to this approach) is going in another direction though. The posters there are more or less trying to convince themselves to using a higher value by using their own modified or self-invented formulas. None of them have been doing it for more than a couple of weeks though, so I hardly regards them as experts

My approach, so far, is to go MAF-20 for the first kilometer, MAF-10 for the next (as a warm-.up period) and then stay below MAF for the rest of the run, usually around MAF-5. It's still a bit awkward running that slow, but not more so than I'm still able to run uphills keeping my heart rate below MAF.

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The approach you describe above is the standard approach for
those who don't actually want to do it! For a few it may work and
for most it won't, at which point they will publicize how trying this
has ruined their lives.

As far as your approach - looks good, but it won't work in km; it only
works in miles.

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MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports

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posted Oct-20-2007 11:03 AM               

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MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports

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posted Oct-20-2007 02:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazze:
Thanks. That's pretty much the impression I got from reading Mark Allens article. The discussion on a danish board (which brought my attention to this approach) is going in another direction though. The posters there are more or less trying to convince themselves to using a higher value by using their own modified or self-invented formulas. None of them have been doing it for more than a couple of weeks though, so I hardly regards them as experts

My approach, so far, is to go MAF-20 for the first kilometer, MAF-10 for the next (as a warm-.up period) and then stay below MAF for the rest of the run, usually around MAF-5. It's still a bit awkward running that slow, but not more so than I'm still able to run uphills keeping my heart rate below MAF.

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The slowness is temporary if you stick with it, plus remember this is only the PATIENCE phase, you can add in faster stuff later towards race season.

You'll work it out.

For variety you can do aerobic intervals (MAF style):

warm-up for the prescribed 15-30 minutes, then run a pace for a 1/4 mile that puts you at the top of your MAF zone (your MAF number). Then after the 1/4 mile (or whatever distance or time you choose) slow down to a pace that puts you at MAF-10. Do that for a 1/4 mile. Do or work up to 8 repeats.

You can do hill repeats the same way. Up or down.

Keep going!

--Jimmy

MAF log

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posted Oct-20-2007 05:08 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazze:
Thanks. That's pretty much the impression I got from reading Mark Allens article. The discussion on a danish board (which brought my attention to this approach) is going in another direction though. The posters there are more or less trying to convince themselves to using a higher value by using their own modified or self-invented formulas. None of them have been doing it for more than a couple of weeks though, so I hardly regards them as experts

My approach, so far, is to go MAF-20 for the first kilometer, MAF-10 for the next (as a warm-.up period) and then stay below MAF for the rest of the run, usually around MAF-5. It's still a bit awkward running that slow, but not more so than I'm still able to run uphills keeping my heart rate below MAF.

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Well, hi there Lazze!

You might know me as one of the main contributors in the thread you mention. Your observation of "self-invented formulas" is interesting as no other formula than Maffetone's (with his own corrections) has been introduced. If you seriously think, that the posters on the danish LHR-thread falsely used to high a MAF-HR, why don't you just tell yhem directly instead of posting it here?

So what if I allowed myself 5 extra bpm for having done inline speedskating for the last 4-5 years? MAF 138 or MAF 143 is VERY low compared to the HR I have been used to the 5 months I have been running.

Despite having exceeded the 180-age MAF HR of 138 on several occasions (briefly though) I've had significant progress my first week: From 10:16mm @141 AHR to 9:26mm @141 AHR isn't bad at all...So if my calculated MAF HR of 143 is a couple of bpm to high - well, I couldn't care less as long as I progress the way I do right now.

Eventually I might lower my calculated MAF HR and even use your approach of starting the run in MAF-20, but right now I'm enjoying MAF/MAF+5 (or whatever) and will stick to that. It's all about motivation.

Hope to see you soon at the danish forum.

:-) LdoubleJ

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posted Oct-21-2007 10:18 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by LdoubleJ:
Well, hi there Lazze!

You might know me as one of the main contributors in the thread you mention. Your observation of "self-invented formulas" is interesting as no other formula than Maffetone's (with his own corrections) has been introduced. If you seriously think, that the posters on the danish LHR-thread falsely used to high a MAF-HR, why don't you just tell yhem directly instead of posting it here?

So what if I allowed myself 5 extra bpm for having done inline speedskating for the last 4-5 years? MAF 138 or MAF 143 is VERY low compared to the HR I have been used to the 5 months I have been running.

Despite having exceeded the 180-age MAF HR of 138 on several occasions (briefly though) I've had significant progress my first week: From 10:16mm @141 AHR to 9:26mm @141 AHR isn't bad at all...So if my calculated MAF HR of 143 is a couple of bpm to high - well, I couldn't care less as long as I progress the way I do right now.

Eventually I might lower my calculated MAF HR and even use your approach of starting the run in MAF-20, but right now I'm enjoying MAF/MAF+5 (or whatever) and will stick to that. It's all about motivation.

Hope to see you soon at the danish forum.

:-) LdoubleJ

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Well first of all this is in no way directed at you, or for that matter any of the other MAF-runners on dourun. It was more directed at those who critcize or question the method, suggesting more intensive training with intervals etc., suggesting using a percentage of VO2Max as the base, or using a set (low) pace and staying with that untill they hit their MAF-value (sort of an opposite approach).
Second; After returning to the mentioned thread, I do realize that I might have mixed in some other threads or posts I've read, but criticizing wasn't really my point here, my point was more that I, in all respect, don't regard you or any of the other posters there, as experts.
Third; Run at whatever heartrate or pace you desire. The main point is that it works for you (and apparently it does). It doesn't have to be dogmatic.

[This message has been edited by Lazze (edited Oct-21-2007).]

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posted Oct-21-2007 01:10 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazze:
Well first of all this is in no way directed at you, or for that matter any of the other MAF-runners on dourun. It was more directed at those who critcize or question the method, suggesting more intensive training with intervals etc., suggesting using a percentage of VO2Max as the base, or using a set (low) pace and staying with that untill they hit their MAF-value (sort of an opposite approach).
Second; After returning to the mentioned thread, I do realize that I might have mixed in some other threads or posts I've read, but criticizing wasn't really my point here, my point was more that I, in all respect, don't regard you or any of the other posters there, as experts.
Third; Run at whatever heartrate or pace you desire. The main point is that it works for you (and apparently it does). It doesn't have to be dogmatic.

[This message has been edited by Lazze (edited Oct-21-2007).]

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Hi Lazze!

I agree. None of the dourun MAF'ers are experts, and there are a good number of doubters on that site. Guess its up to you and me - and some of the other dourun MAF'ers - to show results through LHR training.
Didn't happen for me today...On a 16,8 km (10,5 mile) MAF run i averaged 6:23/km (10:13mm) @141 AHR. My legs felt pretty bad after 1h47 of slow running. I have to get used to that.

:-) LdoubleJ

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