posted Sep-27-2007 04:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TommyL:
My paces are very similar to Jesse's. My MAF-5 treadmill pace is around 7:00 min./mi and outside also mid 8's. Not sure why the difference.I guess the temperature, grade, wind, humidity all play a role.

---

Yeah, definitely those factors. Jesse has a lot of hills where he runs too. Even moderate hills make things a fair amount slower.

Slowingo...great advice! Vo2max is the way to go, Greg. I plan to get one done hopefully in about a month or 2 after my upcoming marathon.

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posted Sep-27-2007 05:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leitnerj:
I think it's almost time to restart this thread....

---

can i suggest a list of 'rules' or some way to trim the fat on these posts? some are way too long (too much ramblin'). and, maybe put Hadd and Mittleman in separate posts since not many talk about them (or even know them). also, the reference to 'low heart rate' to quite misleading. consider the discussion about mark allen's training rate of 155. nothing 'low' about that. maybe refer to this as 'aerobic base building ala maffetone, mark allen, etc.' or whatever.

otherwise, this is such a great thread. real discussion (and unfortunately, lots of misunderstanding). keep up the good work!

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:00 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by TommyL:
My paces are very similar to Jesse's. My MAF-5 treadmill pace is around 7:00 min./mi and outside also mid 8's. Not sure why the difference.I guess the temperature, grade, wind, humidity all play a role.

---

That's exactly it. Every course I run outside here is very hilly,
there's no air conditioning outside, and there's wind. 1-2 min/mile
easily accounts for those factors. For people who run always run
in mild temperatures on flat ground with very low humidity (along
the wharf in San Francisco comes to mind), the difference should
be much less.

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:05 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Docster:

I don't consider my HR training to really be low HR training anymore. Now that it has cooled down a bit I have to actually push at times to keep from dropping to MAF -7 or -8. I've been fortunate enough to be able to race here and there, incorporate one day of speedwork, and still continue to improve.

---

That's exactly what's supposed to happen - focus on the low stuff
for a while until everything aerobically is brought into order, then mix
it up with a variety of efforts, but still keep most volume at a mild
pace. Once you've got the base, "mild" can mean a lot of different
things. You've graduated into the real world and at some point if you
feel that you've lost some of your aerobic development, you'll probably
go back to a few weeks of just easy stuff. You may never hit that
point however if you keep enough easy running in your overall
volume.

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:13 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Preto:
What's the best way to warm up for a marathon? I'm assuming if you are truly racing, you aren't going to spend the first 15-20 minutes of the race gradually raising the HR.

---

I actually do spend the first 20 minutes or so gradually raising my heart
rate. Not only that, but I do it at a faster pace than my steady state
pace. I'm quite sure I've posted this before, but here's my
Boston Marathon from earlier this year. You'll notice that
I was especially low at the beginning because I was basically trapped
behind all the people who wanted to start out very slowly. Not something
I would ever do when the beginning is all downhill. Here were the
actual splits:
7:23/147, 7:10/161, 7:03/162, 6:55/164, 7:11/167,
7:10/166, 7:01/167, 7:05/168, 7:04/168, 7:15/169,
7:14/168, 7:08/168, 6:58/170, 7:07/170, 7:16/171,
6:44/171, 7:37/173, 7:33/172, 7:17/172, 7:29/174,
7:56/175, 7:12/173, 7:06/176, 7:17/177, 7:22/176,
7:31/178, 3:53(7:22/mi)/181
My typical target heart rate for a marathon is 172.
The 7:56 split was climbing heartbreak hill. A little
bump compared to climbs in ultras, but enough to slow
me down to keep from burning out.

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:17 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by fjordrunner:
hello again,
just wanted to report back on the half marathon i ran earlier this month - i followed the plan, and cut my time by 6 minutes from my first HM in may. i had music on the ipod that forced me to Go Slow during the beginning, and i think that was what did it. now remember that i'm a middle-aged mama, and about 18 months ago i couldn't run a mile. i improved my pace from 13.29 to 12.54, cut the time to 2.51.17, AHR 145, max 161. there were a few hills at the beginning, and i just kept to my pace and it went fine. somewhere around mile 7 or 8 i ran out of legs - i couldn't move them any faster and found that slowing down went better, so i couldn't really follow the plan of adding speed as i went along. i managed to recover enough to push the last half mile in.

i'm planning a 10k in a couple of weeks and am mostly taking it easy now, trying to stay under 126 (i refused to admit i had a birthday last year), and then see what happens for the race.

eta - i forgot to mention that i came in 3rd in my AG - and there were actually 4 of us in the 55-60 group!

thanks for listening - i don't think i could have traveled these 1850 miles since i started in may 2006 without low heart rate training!

---

Great job, Susan! How did your heart rate compare to the
suggested heart rates I estimated for you?

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:25 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by leitnerj:
Great job, Susan! How did your heart rate compare to the
suggested heart rates I estimated for you?

---

i kept it in the low 130s like you said (i had calculated it out) the first mile, then it went up to upper 130s in the second. from there it went to low 140s and i found that my legs just didn't want to go any faster, so my heart rate wasn't going any higher, except on the hills. someone suggested that my legs were still tired from the 5k i had run the weekend before, but i just could not pick it up in the latter third of the race, until just the last half mile or so. and then i did let it rip

the good news was that i did not have the last three miles of misery i had in may from going out to fast in the beginning, nor did i spend the night throwing up as i did after the first HM because i was alternating gatorade and water during the race - and i ate a lot afterwards, as opposed to "relaxing" in a hot tub with a glass of wine (not recommended ).

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:25 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by wstevena:
>As a reminder, my first pace was 17 min/mile on a treadmill. >About 8 months later, it was in the low 7s on the treadmill, mid-8s outside.

Just curious why is the differential between your MAF pace on the treadmill vs. outside so large? From my experience it has been around 30s/mile - 8:30 on the treadmill at 0 incline, ~9:00 outside.

I'm wondering if an incline would be better, so that my indoor and outdoor paces are closer to each other?

---

On the contrary, I would say you don't want the paces close together.
Unless you have no hills whatsoever, I suggest that you should use
the treadmill to get some faster paced running in at lower heart rates.
I consider it almost a form of speedwork and it's exactly why I do
2 one hour treadmill runs each week. The only reason I would use
the incline on the treadmill is if I needed to practice really high
inclines (for, say, Pike's Peak Marathon) when I didn't have them
available outside or if I had to do all of my training on the treadmill
in preparation for outside races. I think the mixing of various
paces is a great element of training.

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:29 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by PB2:

can i suggest a list of 'rules' or some way to trim the fat on these posts? some are way too long (too much ramblin'). and, maybe put Hadd and Mittleman in separate posts since not many talk about them (or even know them). also, the reference to 'low heart rate' to quite misleading. consider the discussion about mark allen's training rate of 155. nothing 'low' about that. maybe refer to this as 'aerobic base building ala maffetone, mark allen, etc.' or whatever.

otherwise, this is such a great thread. real discussion (and unfortunately, lots of misunderstanding). keep up the good work!

---

You mistake me for someone who actually has control of this
thread! 155 is low for someone 30 years old who has done
dozens of ironman races!

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posted Sep-27-2007 07:55 PM               

Darn if I had a nickel for every time I thought I had a bad running
day when there was really a temperature/humidity perturbation,
I would have at least 371 nickels. What I would do with them, I'm
just not sure. In either case, just to highlight once again with an
example:

Yesterday, I went for a one mile swim in the pool, avg HR 132.
Went right outside and ran a quite hilly 10 mile run. Temperature
59-61, 100% humidity (hence dewpoint 59-61). Cumulative
elevation gain over 10 miles: 1179 ft. avg HR: 140, avg pace: 8:36
splits (keep mind, this is a hilly run, so that causes some variance):
8:17/135, 8:02/137, 8:57/141, 8:34/139, 8:56/139,
9:12/140, 8:00/140, 8:46/142, 9:01/141, 9:15/145,
1:00/141

Today, I went straight out for a 13 mile run. I really didn't notice
the temperature difference from yesterday - it was earlier in the
morning, I didn't do anything beforehand, and the temperature
still felt mild. Temperature: 64-70, humidity 94-100% (hence
dewpoint from 64-69 deg). Cumulative elevation gain over 13
miles: 902 ft (less hilly than yesterday). avg HR: 141, avg pace: 8:55
splits:
8:23/136, 8:38/139, 9:05/141, 8:42/141, 8:55/140,
9:30/140, 8:51/139, 9:15/139, 8:52/140, 8:49/143,
9:25/143, 8:49/145, 8:29/147, 0:06/148

Even a few degrees increase in dewpoint will have a noticeable
effect on your pace/HR combo! You may not really feel it if the
temperature is relatively comfortable. Over 60 deg dewpoint,
it starts to be come an issue.

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[This message has been edited by leitnerj (edited Sep-27-2007).]

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posted Sep-27-2007 09:23 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by PB2:

can i suggest a list of 'rules' or some way to trim the fat on these posts? some are way too long (too much ramblin'). and, maybe put Hadd and Mittleman in separate posts since not many talk about them (or even know them). also, the reference to 'low heart rate' to quite misleading. consider the discussion about mark allen's training rate of 155. nothing 'low' about that. maybe refer to this as 'aerobic base building ala maffetone, mark allen, etc.' or whatever.

otherwise, this is such a great thread. real discussion (and unfortunately, lots of misunderstanding). keep up the good work!

---

Nooooooo. But for this thread, I never would have even heard about Hadd. Spread the word man. Hadd's little piece has helped me A LOT more than Maffetone (which doesn't work for people like me, who have a relatively low max HR).

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posted Sep-28-2007 07:15 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by fjordrunner:
i kept it in the low 130s like you said (i had calculated it out) the first mile, then it went up to upper 130s in the second. from there it went to low 140s and i found that my legs just didn't want to go any faster, so my heart rate wasn't going any higher, except on the hills. someone suggested that my legs were still tired from the 5k i had run the weekend before, but i just could not pick it up in the latter third of the race, until just the last half mile or so. and then i did let it rip

the good news was that i did not have the last three miles of misery i had in may from going out to fast in the beginning, nor did i spend the night throwing up as i did after the first HM because i was alternating gatorade and water during the race - and i ate a lot afterwards, as opposed to "relaxing" in a hot tub with a glass of wine (not recommended ).

---

Excellent job!

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posted Sep-28-2007 07:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PB2:

can i suggest a list of 'rules' or some way to trim the fat on these posts?

---

No!

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posted Sep-28-2007 01:45 PM            

First, a little background. I'm 36 and have been running for about 2.5 years. I've never been a fast runner, nor do I have a large base at this point. I run about 30 miles per week, and my easy runs are around 10:30. I'd like to build my base during the winter to about 45 miles per week, and peek in the 55+/- range for my full. I've had a few minor injuries preparing for a half in October (achilles injury - which was not running related, and a soleus injury which was).

Over the past few days, I have been re-reading Maffetone's book. This morning, I tried to see if I could stay around a 144 HR. I ended up running 4 miles, with an avg HR of 146. I ended up running about a minute per mile slower than I usually do (11:28/mi to be exact).

I'm wondering if this is a good, bad, or neutral indicator as to my aerobic fitness, or if LHR training will be beneficial to me. Any input on that from the experts here?

Second, if I do go this route, I will probably begin base building in November, and begin serious training for the half in the beginning of January. Obviously, the first month or so would still be considered base building. This would give me about 3 months of LHR training. Would this be enough to get me to a good base? Obviously I realize that this is an experiment of one, so there is no concrete answer.

Third, I realize that there are several theories on LHR training. Most say nothing over the MAF/70%, etc. for at least 8-12 weeks. I typically run a Thanksgiving Day 10k, and would like to this year. Would the recommendation be to just run it and not "race" it? Would one anaerobic race do that much damage 4 weeks into training?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

------------------
-------------------------------------
CfKid

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posted Sep-28-2007 02:10 PM            

See you at the Thanksgiving Day Race! (Although I never "race" it ... only "run" it!)

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posted Sep-28-2007 02:19 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by cfkid:
I am working toward my first full marathon next May (Flying Pig), and am considering using LHR training for my base building this winter. I have a few questions, in an attempt to help me determine how agressive to get into it.

First, a little background. I'm 36 and have been running for about 2.5 years. I've never been a fast runner, nor do I have a large base at this point. I run about 30 miles per week, and my easy runs are around 10:30. I'd like to build my base during the winter to about 45 miles per week, and peek in the 55+/- range for my full. I've had a few minor injuries preparing for a half in October (achilles injury - which was not running related, and a soleus injury which was).

Over the past few days, I have been re-reading Maffetone's book. This morning, I tried to see if I could stay around a 144 HR. I ended up running 4 miles, with an avg HR of 146. I ended up running about a minute per mile slower than I usually do (11:28/mi to be exact).

I'm wondering if this is a good, bad, or neutral indicator as to my aerobic fitness, or if LHR training will be beneficial to me. Any input on that from the experts here?

Second, if I do go this route, I will probably begin base building in November, and begin serious training for the half in the beginning of January. Obviously, the first month or so would still be considered base building. This would give me about 3 months of LHR training. Would this be enough to get me to a good base? Obviously I realize that this is an experiment of one, so there is no concrete answer.

Third, I realize that there are several theories on LHR training. Most say nothing over the MAF/70%, etc. for at least 8-12 weeks. I typically run a Thanksgiving Day 10k, and would like to this year. Would the recommendation be to just run it and not "race" it? Would one anaerobic race do that much damage 4 weeks into training?
Thanks in advance for any replies.

---

A slower pace the first time out can be shocking (or even depressing) but it's not unusual. The most important thing is to find the best training heart rate. I always prefer a good treadmill test to do this, but that's not easy for most people. Maffetone's 180 formula works well for most, and if it's not correct you'll know within a couple of weeks or so (after your first MAF test or as you time your regular runs).

Building an aerobic base is good for everyone.

Three months of base may be good, but it may not be enough. I like the idea that you build base until your progress slows (or plateaus), especially for a long race. So if you keep getting faster each month, why stop getting faster? The marathon requires a great aerobic system with very little anaerobic input.

If you're reading Maffetone's books you've probably read about some of this.

Hard to say whether one anaerobic effort would hurt you. If you're burned out or injured it certainly could.

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posted Sep-28-2007 02:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Who Dey:
Cfkid ... not much to say except that I too reside in Cincinnati and that I found your blog very interesting. I started LHR training for the first time late spring and throughout the summer in prep for a fall marathon (Marine Corps, Oct. 28th). I don't know if it will make me faster at that distance, but it has allowed me to run more days per week, increase my weekly mileage to PR levels, and to remain relatively injury free (nursing an "uncomfortable" achilles tendon presently). I think you would be a good candidate for LHR training. Winter would be a great time to give it a whirl ... nothing really to lose. Go slow ... get healthy ... build your mileage ... and see where you're at come spring.

See you at the Thanksgiving Day Race! (Although I never "race" it ... only "run" it!)

---

Thanks for the feedback, and I'm glad you like the blog. I'm hoping that it inspires someone out there. I figure if I challenge myself, maybe I can help others with chronic illnesses too!

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-------------------------------------
CfKid

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posted Sep-28-2007 02:37 PM            

I.E., should your training pace be 180-36 (144) or should it be reduced slightly (-5?).

This is your first marathon, so I would go with LHR training to build as good an aerobic base as possible. Is 3 months enough? I don't know ... but it is what it is ... and it will help.

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posted Sep-28-2007 03:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Who Dey:
CfKid I don't know much about CF and how it effects you physically, but I'm curious as to what the LHR-Experts think regarding whether or not it warrants an adjustment to your MAF.

I.E., should your training pace be 180-36 (144) or should it be reduced slightly (-5?).

This is your first marathon, so I would go with LHR training to build as good an aerobic base as possible. Is 3 months enough? I don't know ... but it is what it is ... and it will help.

---

not sure who the 'experts' are. but in any situation it's best to have a gas analyzer test done on the treadmill. this will tell you about heart rate at specific levels of fat and sugar burning (RQ). if this isn't possible use the 180 formula then subtract 10. most importantly keep tabs on progress (maf test, re-testing on treadmill, etc.). even more important, have fun.

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posted Sep-28-2007 05:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by cfkid:
I am working toward my first full marathon next May (Flying Pig), and am considering using LHR training for my base building this winter. I have a few questions, in an attempt to help me determine how agressive to get into it.

First, a little background. I'm 36 and have been running for about 2.5 years. I've never been a fast runner, nor do I have a large base at this point. I run about 30 miles per week, and my easy runs are around 10:30. I'd like to build my base during the winter to about 45 miles per week, and peek in the 55+/- range for my full. I've had a few minor injuries preparing for a half in October (achilles injury - which was not running related, and a soleus injury which was).

Over the past few days, I have been re-reading Maffetone's book. This morning, I tried to see if I could stay around a 144 HR. I ended up running 4 miles, with an avg HR of 146. I ended up running about a minute per mile slower than I usually do (11:28/mi to be exact).

I'm wondering if this is a good, bad, or neutral indicator as to my aerobic fitness, or if LHR training will be beneficial to me. Any input on that from the experts here?

Second, if I do go this route, I will probably begin base building in November, and begin serious training for the half in the beginning of January. Obviously, the first month or so would still be considered base building. This would give me about 3 months of LHR training. Would this be enough to get me to a good base? Obviously I realize that this is an experiment of one, so there is no concrete answer.

Third, I realize that there are several theories on LHR training. Most say nothing over the MAF/70%, etc. for at least 8-12 weeks. I typically run a Thanksgiving Day 10k, and would like to this year. Would the recommendation be to just run it and not "race" it? Would one anaerobic race do that much damage 4 weeks into training?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

---

I would run the race. Unless you are really really aerobically challenged the single 10K shouldn't hurt you much at all. It might even help after quite a few weeks of deep aerobic runs.

Some of my best "maf" runs seem to be after a speed workout which was preceeded by several weeks of easy, aerobic runs. Workouts that pushed my threshold upward, perhaps.

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posted Sep-29-2007 11:41 AM               

Just to re-cap:

MAF test #1. July 17. 63 degrees, DP 55.
Mile 1 9:38
Mile 2 10:01
Mile 3 10:15
Mile 4 10:32
Mile 5 10:59

MAF test #2. Aug. 14. 52 degrees, DP 48.
Mile 1 9:26
Mile 2 9:43
Mile 3 9:51
Mile 4 9:53
Mile 5 10:02

MAF test #3. Today. 61 degrees, DP 50.
Mile 1 10:27
Mile 2 11:02
Mile 3 11:32
Mile 4 11:36
Mile 5 11:51

Just some other info about me- I'm 34, MAF normally=146, but dropped it to 136 during the worst of my allergy season, while I was taking meds. I've been feeling great for the last two weeks. My allergies are still there, but much improved. I have no injuries or aches and pains of any sort. My diet is excellent 95% of the time (can't go without the occasional chocolate bar!), and I always make sure I'm well hydrated. I've been running just over 1 year, and have been holding steady at 30MPW for the last month, and had planned to start increasing my mileage slowly again once allergy season is over. I've been feeling a little bit tired lately, but I just attributed that to allergies.

I have trouble believing that such a severe deterioration is solely because it is allergy season. I'm worse off now than when I started MAF training!!! I am seeing my doctor this week, and plan to ask for some routine bloodwork to rule out anemia, and any other medical issues that could be causing all of this. Does anyone have any ideas what might be going on? I could really use some help, because I'm finding this terribly depressing.

My plan right now is to continue MAF training for 2-3 more months before adding a little speedwork back in (good idea? bad idea? any thoughts?). Despite my horrid performance on this MAF test, I have to admit, I've seen many other benefits since I've started low HR training. All the aches and pains I had been experiencing are gone, and I've been able to increase my mileage without incurring any new injuries. Ultimately, I do run to stay healthy, and my body has never felt better. Psychologically, though, this deterioration is really tough to take.

Please advise, everyone- I'm feeling a little desperate for some input. Let me know if you all need any more info to help me figure this out.

Thanks!
Pam

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posted Sep-29-2007 03:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by catwoman73:
Well, I did another MAF test. I knew it wasn't going to be good, with my allergies and all, but I didn't think it would be this bad.

Just to re-cap:

MAF test #1. July 17. 63 degrees, DP 55.
Mile 1 9:38
Mile 2 10:01
Mile 3 10:15
Mile 4 10:32
Mile 5 10:59

MAF test #2. Aug. 14. 52 degrees, DP 48.
Mile 1 9:26
Mile 2 9:43
Mile 3 9:51
Mile 4 9:53
Mile 5 10:02

MAF test #3. Today. 61 degrees, DP 50.
Mile 1 10:27
Mile 2 11:02
Mile 3 11:32
Mile 4 11:36
Mile 5 11:51

Just some other info about me- I'm 34, MAF normally=146, but dropped it to 136 during the worst of my allergy season, while I was taking meds. I've been feeling great for the last two weeks. My allergies are still there, but much improved. I have no injuries or aches and pains of any sort. My diet is excellent 95% of the time (can't go without the occasional chocolate bar!), and I always make sure I'm well hydrated. I've been running just over 1 year, and have been holding steady at 30MPW for the last month, and had planned to start increasing my mileage slowly again once allergy season is over. I've been feeling a little bit tired lately, but I just attributed that to allergies.

I have trouble believing that such a severe deterioration is solely because it is allergy season. I'm worse off now than when I started MAF training!!! I am seeing my doctor this week, and plan to ask for some routine bloodwork to rule out anemia, and any other medical issues that could be causing all of this. Does anyone have any ideas what might be going on? I could really use some help, because I'm finding this terribly depressing.

My plan right now is to continue MAF training for 2-3 more months before adding a little speedwork back in (good idea? bad idea? any thoughts?). Despite my horrid performance on this MAF test, I have to admit, I've seen many other benefits since I've started low HR training. All the aches and pains I had been experiencing are gone, and I've been able to increase my mileage without incurring any new injuries. Ultimately, I do run to stay healthy, and my body has never felt better. Psychologically, though, this deterioration is really tough to take.

Please advise, everyone- I'm feeling a little desperate for some input. Let me know if you all need any more info to help me figure this out.

Thanks!
Pam

---

If you take out the numbers your post sounds like a success story. Unfortunately just about everyone, myself included measures success/progress with numbers.

I've been MAF training for just over a year and I've never taken a true MAF test. Running up against MAF tends to frustrate me. What I do instead is steady runs on my treadmill. I started at 4.5mph for 6 miles. I did that run at least once a week until my average HR was regularly in the mid to high 120's. Then I increased to 5mph and now I'm working in 5.5mph for 5 of the 6 miles.

With my exterior runs I tend to stay in 130 - 135 range for the first half of the run and then I drift up to 135 - 140. A few miles after the drift I start having a harder time controling my HR on the inclines. Exterior runs are, as always dew point permitting.

You had dew points of 55 in July, 48 in August, and 50 in Sept? I am extremely jealous. Today was my first day under 60 and only the third day below 65 since May . Got to love that Texas heat.

Craig

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posted Sep-29-2007 04:13 PM               

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posted Sep-29-2007 04:51 PM            

you seem to assess yourself, which is an maf test. you just do it in a way that's convenient for you. which is great.

one problem many people have with measuring their daily workout is they may get obsessed. and runners can be very obsessed. there are so many factors that affect pace at a specific heart rate that if you checked yourself everyday and the numbers didn't always improve, you can get crazy. that's why maffetone suggests once a month (or whatever - 3 weeks?).

it's like getting on the scale every morning. there are so many factors that affect your weight and a pound here or there is insignificant but when you see that one pound higher on a given morning, you freak out. (not to mention that most scales just are not that accurate.)

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posted Sep-29-2007 05:34 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by PB2:
leitnerj, i'm not sure why you're anti-maf test. maybe a bad experience in school with tests?

you seem to assess yourself, which is an maf test. you just do it in a way that's convenient for you. which is great.

one problem many people have with measuring their daily workout is they may get obsessed. and runners can be very obsessed. there are so many factors that affect pace at a specific heart rate that if you checked yourself everyday and the numbers didn't always improve, you can get crazy. that's why maffetone suggests once a month (or whatever - 3 weeks?).

it's like getting on the scale every morning. there are so many factors that affect your weight and a pound here or there is insignificant but when you see that one pound higher on a given morning, you freak out. (not to mention that most scales just are not that accurate.)

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well, you have to put my few statements about MAF tests together
to get to the gist of what I'm talking about:

1. one should be gathering HR split data each run anyway in
order to be able to track whether there's a problem. (Really,
this is not necessary, but the problem is that everyone comes
back to this thread and throws a few data points and says that
the world is crashing down). Without a trend (not just 2, 3, 4
or workouts) it's impossible to assess (1) if there's really a problem,
(2) whether the person is not quite keeping strictly low,
(3) if a lower heart rate target may be required, or (4) something
else is going on, not apparent from a small amount of data.

2. one should pick a set time period (say, three weeks) and
make it a point to look at the trend over that time. Yes, there
is a tendency to obsess over it, but in order to be successful
at this, one needs to learn not to obsess over things! It's very
important.

In short, MAF tests are fine, but they do not provide enough information
to post here and have anyone figure it out. Further, it seems as
though some are really not strictly staying below the MAF heart
rate other than during MAF tests.

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