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Topic: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone/Mark Allen/Hadd/Mittleman |
dfcameron
Cool Runner |
 posted Sep-08-2007 06:02 PM
  
quote:
Originally posted by streeetch:
I know many of you have Garmins. How long does the battery last? I imagine the GPS makes a noticable difference.
Loaded question; 10-15 hours - so its rechargeable. I haven't had to replace the battery yet.... my first Garmin lasted 2-1/2 years before I needed anything done to it (other than recharging)
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-08-2007 06:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by streeetch:
This post really grabbed my attention. I've been debating/researching upgrading my HRM. It's down to either a Garmin 305 or the 200sd. Currently you can buy both for almost the same price. Polar claims that within a few minutes of running you can't tell which shoe the foot pod is on. Is that true or exaggerated? Also, I was curious how long the battery in the foot pod lasts. I found one website that claimed it only lasted 20 hours. That wouldn't be very long. I know many of you have Garmins. How long does the battery last? I imagine the GPS makes a noticable difference. As far running: I've now been at this low HR running for right at a year. This summer (TX heat) I used run/walking to lengthen my long runs in preparation for my first marathon (Nov. 11), ever since then I've been easily running back at paces that I hadn't seen since spring time. And since I haven't seen a dew point below 68 since May I'm holding out hope that things will get even better. Thanks for the HRM info.
I'm getting around 9-10 hours out of the battery (I keep it on the
charger at all times anyway, so I only have to worry about races
of 50 miles plus). No doubt when the weather gets cooler you're
going to see a significant increase in pace. Wait until your first
50 degree dewpoint! ------------------
MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports
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Diesel88
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-08-2007 10:09 PM
My first MAF RR  Thought I would share my experiences from this afternoon with my first 'experiment of one' on this issue. My typical runs to this point have been an hour +. The pace ranges between a 15:00 - 12:00 minute mile as a warmup, Usually the next 15 minutes at 10:20, the next 15 minutes at 9:40, the next at 9:22, then another 15 -30 minutes a cool down which has a lowest pace of 11:06. Heart rate tops out at 160-170bpm. As you can imagine, the thought of keeping my pace in the 11:00 to 12:00 range made me skeptical that I would stay disciplined enough to keep my pace 'down there'. I thought I'd last about 30 minutes and then crank into a 9:22 + pace without looking back.  Was I surprised! I did a warmup for 10 minutes at a 15:00 pace and then tried 15 minutes at a 10:20 pace to see where this would put my bpm. I checked and I was at 136 (I have calculated my MAF at 140) so I brought it down to 10:42 pace. I feel fortunate to not have had to do much tweaking, as I discovered by the end of my 75 minute session that the pace range of 11:32 to 10:42 was optimal for keeping me at or close to MAF. Observations - What a pleasant run. I do not feel like my run has beaten the crap out of me, I feel it has invigorated me...kind of why I started to enjoy running in the first place. The other observation was while it did take some discipline to not crank it up a few times during the session, I still felt as though I had plenty 'in the tank' and I could easily have tacked on a 9:20 pace for 10 minutes...very handy to end a 10k or HM I might have been part of at the time. So, if any of you have perused this great thread and not given it a try, I recommend going for it. Heck, it's one run out of how many and then you know if this is for you...! Thanks for letting me share.
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Gregolowe
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-09-2007 10:26 AM
Ran the Groundhog Fall 50K as my last long run before tapering for the VT50. I see the wisdom of not doing this training while you are racing. There were about 130 runners I think. Due to either stress or only getting 2.5 hours sleep the night before, not sure which or maybe both, my HR was in the 110-120 just walking around. Jogging at all made it shoot up to 130's. I was nervous as to what this would do for my day. So we take off and quickly I'm 3rd to last. Aarrghh! I am not this slow everybody, really! I'm really not! So, to make a long story short, this was a huge mental effort to not worry about anyone else, run my race, and remember that this is training and the goal is not to finish fast but to stay under MAF. I succeded in that regard. My hr would jump on the hills. I settled into a routine of taking 25-30 steps, then resting to let my HR come back down. Towards the end I would let it jump to 150(MAF 142). Time-7:57.11. I had to hike alot to keep my HR down. Pace, are you ready? 15:55. Think you could do that for 30 miles? I had to swallow my pride over and over again. I finished with 6 people slower than me. We joke about old men with walkers passing us as we do this training, but yesterday, it was no joke. When we started, there were only two people behind me, both at least in their 60's. Turns out that once they caught me I got to talk to one of them. His name was Leo, he was 79 in a week, this was his fourth time fininshing this race, and had set the age category finishing time record at JFK 50 when he was 70. Former airborne trooper, a man who had lived a full life. He was tough as nails. He would pick up a stick to use to help him keep his balance as he descended the hills. I felt not so self concious after talking with him. I was glad I went slow and got to meet him. So substitue sticks for walkers and the joke ceased to be a joke for me. When he and his old buddy passed me in the race, I was last for a while and this was all I could think of. Too funny. Anyways, I feel good and feel like a gave a huge booster shot to my aerobic system leading in to VT50. Just wanted to share. [This message has been edited by Gregolowe (edited Sep-09-2007).]
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Gregolowe
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-09-2007 10:34 AM
Got two questions I've been waiting to ask until I had finished my 50K.
1) Jesse mentioned that he doesn't taper before races, feeling like he loses fitness when he's been low hr training. Should I taper before my VT50 attempt? My mileage topped out last week with 45 miles for the week? Should I taper or keep my mileage up? I know that for traditional training this makes sense as you are stressed from all the training that's anaerobic. But what about all of us who low Hr train? Is it necessary as our bodies are already rested? I would especially like to hear from those of you who run ultras.
2) HR race strategy. I've been doing all my training at MAF of 142 or less. What shoud I do for the race? Should I just run it without regard to HR, walking when necessary? Or should I pick a range above where I've been training, say 150-160 and just try to stay in there? Before I started this training I would run 15 minutes at around 155-160, then walk 3 and do this on all my runs, up to 4 hours for my long runs. Should I do this or should I just try to run as much as possible walking when necessary or go the hr range menthod? What do you ultra runners do?
Thank you. I can't wait to hear your guys responses.
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DavidD
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-09-2007 01:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gregolowe:
1) Jesse mentioned that he doesn't taper before races, feeling like he loses fitness when he's been low hr training. Should I taper before my VT50 attempt?
You can only gain fitness with a taper -- that's the whole purpose. Your aerobic engine will be much better for the race, your muscles well recovered and ready, etc.
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-09-2007 02:00 PM
It is true that I don't really taper. However, almost every training
run I do is a taper. I'm at the point where I generally don't feel like
I did anything even after a 20 mile training run. The taper is to work
the kinks out, get some rest, and let those muscles grow. Given
that most every run I do is basically a recovery run, there's not much
further recovery that I need. With that said, a few days before a race,
I'll generally reduce my mileage by 20% or so, or maybe transition
some of it to cycling. Everything I do now, however, is a response
to what my body is telling me. If I feel like I've had enough running,
I'll cut back. If I feel rearing to go, I'll add more. My belief is that
a taper can mean a lot of things and to assume there's a
one size fits all approach would be sorely mistaken. Think of the taper
as a period to make sure your body no longer feels stressed. Some
time into the training season, I get
myself into a mode where I simply have no post-run knocks and pings
and that's when I know "I'm there." Early in a training cycle, I will
generally have those knocks and pings. When I take time off or cut back
in any significant way, the knocks and pings start to return - I start
to get the rest-of-the-day stiffness after my runs and so forth. I
make sure I go into a race in the "I'm there" state. No one here can
tell you the answer for how much taper you really need. My first
marathon under 3:20 also happened to be the first marathon where
I ran a 20 mile training run the very day before. Honestly I had no
idea that I had it in me to break 3:20, otherwise I would not have
run 20 the day before. Might I have run faster otherwise? I don't
know. My fastest marathon (Boston this year) was 2 weeks after
a 100 mile race. I ran 60 miles that week. It was also 3 weeks
after a 15 minute PR in a 50k. Then there were several marathons
and ultras that I ran on several consecutive weekends before
that, one of which was my second-best marathon time (prior
to my Boston run.) Could I have done better with a
more substantial taper? How would I know? Given that I beat the
crap out of my times where I used more traditional training and tapers,
what would even lead me to second-guess what I did? Keep in mind
that I train like no one else. I am so focused on staying low in heart
rate and picking up speed tremendously on the downs that I believe
I am maximizing what you can do with a true lazyman's training
program. I break about every rule in the book. But a few of the
rules are gospel and I stick to them. When I talk about what I do
to typical runners, they frequently say that it's the stupidest thing
they ever heard. Then I tell them my before and after times and
most withhold any further comment. They battle their overuse
injuries and I battle my ankle twists and cracks when I'm bouncing
down the rocks on the trail. They take 8 weeks off. I take 2 days
off. ------------------
MyRunningLog
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Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-09-2007 02:10 PM
I just looked back at my running log. Not only did I run a 15 minute
PR in a 50k race (HAT run) the week before my first completed
100 miler, but I ran an easy 20 miler the day after that. My weekly
mileage was 132 the week of the 100. I'm not a fast guy, but I did
come in 11th place in my first 100 mile finish out of 200+ starters,
so it's hard to complain.
I planned to take a week off after the 100, but I felt fine after one
full day's rest, then started back up. I contend that it's all because
I have spent a lot of time learning myself and understanding what
my body tells me, with a little help from some electronic devices.
------------------
MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports
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gregw
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-09-2007 04:09 PM
I'll echo what Jesse said that the taper depends on what kind of training you do leading up to the race. Last fall, I came into MCM on mostly LHR training (only last half of long runs above). I followed a traditional 3-week taper and I think it was way too much. I ran another marathon 4 weeks later (again LHR training) with barely a taper (ran an 18-mile long run the weekend before but took two rest days race week) and it was more than enough. This spring I did a more traditional marathon training program (Benji Durden's) and followed his taper (which is a little shorter than most). I felt like his taper was just perfect for me for that type of training.
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DanMoriarity
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 08:31 AM
Bill Rodgers has said he ran very poorly when he cut his mileage for more than 3-4 days before a marathon. Of course he wasn't strictly a LHR runner, but most of his non-speedwork days were relatively slow ( 6:30 per mile most days for a guy who could run a marathon at under 5 min mile pace ). Personally, I think the length of the taper depends on how you're feeling, if you're feeling tired and have a few aches and pains, then you're probably better off cutting back a bit earlier, but on the other hand if you're feeling good with no problems you probably don't need to taper too much. I certainly don't believe inthe 3 week taper that many people recommend. 5-7 days is more like it for me, but it should be an individual matter, not something carved in stone.
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Gregolowe
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 09:27 AM
Okay, I appreciate the responses on the tapering. I'm asking the question because I fear I'm detraining. Let me explain by citing my weekly mileage for the last few months:
July 8- 31 miles
July 15- 29.5
July 22- 36 miles
July 29- 32.8
Aug. 5- 30.6
Aug.12- 40
Aug.19- 33.5
Aug.26- 26
Sep. 2- 45
The weeks of Aug 19 and 26 were due to skipping runs to rest as my resting hr was high. So, you can see the undulation. I'm going to keep my mileage up to 40+ for this week, then probably 40 for next week, then maybe 20 the week of the race. Thanks for the input.
Would ya'll please give me your input on race strategy? Should I pick a hr range above my MAF or 142, say 150-160, and stay in there, or should I just try to run as much as possible regardless of my HR? How do you race ultra's after doing low hr training? thanks.
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apires
Member |
posted Sep-10-2007 10:43 AM
I am trying to start a program using the low heart rate approach here in Brazil. I have bought Maffetone and Stu books. Although they look the same Stu has a different approach since he creates 3 different heart-rate zones based on MAF: MAP (((MAF-10)-20)--MAF-10 )bpm,
MEP ((MAF-10) --- MAF)bpm,
SAP (MAF --- MAF+20)bpm. Is this better than just using MAF?
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saviorfaire
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 11:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Acb8d2:
Is there a heart rate monitor that everyone here really likes or would recommend?
I bought a Mark of Fitness MF-180 monitor, which does not require a chest strap. It fits on your wrist like a watch and there is a strap with velco that you wrap around your pointer finger with a sensor probe that goes on the fleshy part of the finger. It senses the reflexivity of the blood pulsing through your fingers. It has numerous functions such as setting a high/lo range, warning alarm, time in hi/lo zone, recovery check, etc. The cost is about $70. I've had a few issues with it sensing and giving erroneous readings.
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DavidD
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 11:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by apires:
I am trying to start a program using the low heart rate approach here in Brazil. I have bought Maffetone and Stu books. Although they look the same Stu has a different approach since he creates 3 different heart-rate zones based on MAF: MAP (((MAF-10)-20)--MAF-10 )bpm,
MEP ((MAF-10) --- MAF)bpm,
SAP (MAF --- MAF+20)bpm. Is this better than just using MAF?
As per a previous discussion, Stu's approach is from Maffetone but much too complicated. Keep it simple. Do the 180 formula (as per Maffetone) but be honest with it. Build a good base. Be happy 
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CSuzette
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 11:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by saviorfaire:
I bought a Mark of Fitness MF-180 monitor, which does not require a chest strap. It fits on your wrist like a watch and there is a strap with velco that you wrap around your pointer finger with a sensor probe that goes on the fleshy part of the finger. It senses the reflexivity of the blood pulsing through your fingers.It has numerous functions such as setting a high/lo range, warning alarm, time in hi/lo zone, recovery check, etc. The cost is about $70. I've had a few issues with it sensing and giving erroneous readings.
I use this monitor when I am doing the stairs in my apartment building. It is very accurate. But, outside it doesn't perform well if it is below about 60 degrees and if it is windy it sometimes doesn't work at all. Plus, you constantly have to be changing the battery which can get expensive. Most monitors do not work well on me for some reason. I bought a Garmin 305 but couldn't get it to read other than 56. I now have bought some electrode gel and I will see if it works any better. Before that I returned about 5 monitors within the 30 day warranty. They would work until the batteries were less than perfect and then they would just read at like 260.
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saviorfaire
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 12:07 PM
The battery for the mf-180 cost a few dollars, and is available just about anywhere. I can get it at the place in nyc where I purchased my unit.They recommend wearing a glove on your hand over the unit in cold weather, something like garden gloves and cutting a hole so that you can view the dial/face of the unit. Last winter, I ran as long as the temps were above 20, and wore gloves anyway. I have had some issues with the first mf-180 I bought. It seemed that in extremely warm and humid conditions, if my HR would get above the high range setting it was start sky rocketing, particularly when I was perspiring excessively. I returned it for a replacement. I had actually met someone from another running message forum who was involved in the development of this unit.
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dfcameron
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 01:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gregolowe:
Okay, I appreciate the responses on the tapering. I'm asking the question because I fear I'm detraining. Let me explain by citing my weekly mileage for the last few months:
July 8- 31 miles
July 15- 29.5
July 22- 36 miles
July 29- 32.8
Aug. 5- 30.6
Aug.12- 40
Aug.19- 33.5
Aug.26- 26
Sep. 2- 45
The weeks of Aug 19 and 26 were due to skipping runs to rest as my resting hr was high. So, you can see the undulation. I'm going to keep my mileage up to 40+ for this week, then probably 40 for next week, then maybe 20 the week of the race. Thanks for the input.
Would ya'll please give me your input on race strategy? Should I pick a hr range above my MAF or 142, say 150-160, and stay in there, or should I just try to run as much as possible regardless of my HR? How do you race ultra's after doing low hr training? thanks.
Greg, Jesse differs from me on this, but for a 50 miler, I generally approach it as a MAF training run. By about mile 3; I'm close to MAF - and try to leave it there for pretty much the entire run. For the last 5 miles or so, I'll let it drift up. That's the strategy on an average mileage of about 45-55 MPW going in. If I were doing more mileage (like Jesse), I might try going harder. For road marathons or 50Ks though, I don't do the same thing. I'll average 10 beats over MAF for a marathon. Not sure for a 50K; maybe 5 beats over? For a 50-miler though; I'll average a few beats under. Never run farther than 50. FWIW, this fall, I'm running the Detroit Marathon on Oct 21. I'm about to turn 45 soon, so I'm trying for a Boston qualifier. I've upped the mileage so that I've done 956 miles in the last 12 weeks cumulatively. Nearly all runs during this period were at LHR below MAF - because its the only way I could build to this volume. From here on in, I'm doing 1 speed session per week. I can pretty much guarantee you I'd be above MAF by mile 2 in the target marathon. But, I wouldn't try this for an ultra w/o the deep mileage base.
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Gregolowe
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 02:28 PM
Thanks dfcameron. This 50 miler has been my goal for 2 years. Mountain Masochist was my original goal till I got injured last year. I've had my sights on this one since January. It is the culmination of my training for the previous year. Following the race I will focus on low hr training till March or April at which point I will attempt Laurel Highlands 70 miler then a 100 miler later in the year. So, I want to run this race and am not worried about my HR going too high. If I were to "run" at MAF ( I put that in quotes cause 15:00 miles involves lots of walking(which is a little faster than the pace I just did in a 50K)), I would finish in something ridiculous like 12.5-13 hours. No way. I want to race this race as much as I am able without self destructing. Please don't think I'm dismissing your response, I'm just adding more of what I'm thinking so you know where I'm coming from. I'm not worried about hurting my aerobic "base". I will have completed 9 weeks of low hr training once the race rolls around and have the idea of just basically starting over for winter base building once the race is over.
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Who Dey
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 02:51 PM
I'm struggling with determining a race pace as well (marathon in my case).Rather than maintaining a constant HR and having my pace constantly change, I liked doing long training runs at a constant pace. I usually began them at MAF-10 and ended up MAF+10 by the end. Not sure, however, how to target a race pace. Ideally, I would have some intermediate race results upon which to base a prediction, but I have not raced much ... certainly not under conditions I expect for the marathon.
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dfcameron
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 04:34 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Gregolowe:
Thanks dfcameron. This 50 miler has been my goal for 2 years. Mountain Masochist was my original goal till I got injured last year. I've had my sights on this one since January. It is the culmination of my training for the previous year. Following the race I will focus on low hr training till March or April at which point I will attempt Laurel Highlands 70 miler then a 100 miler later in the year. So, I want to run this race and am not worried about my HR going too high. If I were to "run" at MAF ( I put that in quotes cause 15:00 miles involves lots of walking(which is a little faster than the pace I just did in a 50K)), I would finish in something ridiculous like 12.5-13 hours. No way. I want to race this race as much as I am able without self destructing. Please don't think I'm dismissing your response, I'm just adding more of what I'm thinking so you know where I'm coming from. I'm not worried about hurting my aerobic "base". I will have completed 9 weeks of low hr training once the race rolls around and have the idea of just basically starting over for winter base building once the race is over.
OK. Good luck. I don't believe I'd be able to do it.... that is, I don't think I can run 50 miles at much above MAF. But, then again, MAF for me is at about 9:00 min/mi pace (in decent weather). FWIW, I did my 50 miler in 9:57 (12 min/mi pace), but the terrain was much tougher than on the road. On a similar terrain for a 10 mile run, my MAF is closer to 11:00 min/mi pace.
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dfcameron
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 04:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Who Dey:
I'm struggling with determining a race pace as well (marathon in my case).Rather than maintaining a constant HR and having my pace constantly change, I liked doing long training runs at a constant pace. I usually began them at MAF-10 and ended up MAF+10 by the end. Not sure, however, how to target a race pace. Ideally, I would have some intermediate race results upon which to base a prediction, but I have not raced much ... certainly not under conditions I expect for the marathon.
Oh my, this is so variable for people. Depends on how deep your base is, and how long it takes for your HR drift to happen. If you go from MAF-10 to MAF+10 over the course of about 23 miles, and you're at MAF-10 say at 1 mile - I'd shoot to be at MAF at 1 mile; and keep a 10 beat higher differential throughout. But, if you don't have a deep base or you get to MAF+10 more quickly than 15 miles or so... that'd be a bit fast, at least in my case. For me, I do figure to be at MAF around the mile or so - and by the finish be at about MAF+20 - based on previous experience - but that's a sample of one person. [This message has been edited by dfcameron (edited Sep-10-2007).]
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-10-2007 07:18 PM
It definitely takes some trial and error to determine optimal
race pace, that is for sure, at every distance. And for most
ultras, distance isn't good enough because terrain is more
important, as well as whether you were able to take in nutrition
well. Going out at MAF heart rate for ultras is probably a great
plan. Let's take a look at some of my examples:
(keep in mind these include stops at a number of
aid stations without stopping the clock) JFK50 miler 2005 (50.4 miles, 8:28:52, HRavg:158)
8:39/144, 9:51/154, 9:38/156, 8:47/157, 11:05/162,
11:47/158, 10:39/154, 9:33/155, 9:33/152, 10:02/163,
10:07/160, 10:48/165, 9:56/162, 10:14/166, 13:24/156,
11:49/156, 8:48/163, 9/162, 8:54/163, 9:27/163,
9:03/163, 9:04/164, 10:10/160, 9:01/162, 9:16/164,
9:07/164, 9:04/164, 11:14/158, 9:30/160, 9:35/159,
10:48/155, 9:31/159, 9:38/160, 9:15/160, 13:19/150,
9:20/159, 9:47/160, 8:55/161, 11:54/155, 10:09/158,
10:03/158, 10:29/156, 10:52/ , 10:25/156, 11:11/152,
10:33/153, 11:19/151, 10:25/153, 10:29/153, 9:09/157,
3:53(8:31/mi)/166 JFK50 2006 (8:14:40, HRavg: 162)
8:42/XX, 10:07/156, 10:02/161, 9:41/158, 12:01/161,
11:49/162, 10:37/162, 9:49/159, 9:38/157, 10:46/160,
9:45/161, 10:25/163, 10:23/164, 10:26/164, 14:00/153,
10:44/160, 8:55/163, 9:02/163, 19:10(X)/161, 9:07/165,
9:03/165, 9:44/163, 9:09/164, 8:58/165, 9:45/163,
8:58/168, 9:47/162, 9:06/162, 9:00/162, 10:03/160,
9:05/162, 10:45/164, 8:54/165, 24:31(2+mi)/159,
9:22/163, 9:44/164, 11:08/157, 9:16/160, 9:33/161,
10:37/160, 9:02/162, 9:20/158, 9:19/160, 9:39/159,
9:21/161, 9:13/163, 9:14/164, 7:52/166 Mountain Masochist 2006 (54 miles, 10:26:08, HRavg: 153)
(mountains killed me - long death march)
some GPS outages, so some of the splits in the
middle were suspect.
8:33/xx, 8:18/157, 8:09/153, 8:21/153, 9:35/157,
8:09/156, 8:43/156, 14:15/164, 11:20/162, 11:20/159,
12/159, 9:27/151, 11:40/153, 11:49/157, 12:06/156,
12:05(1.05)/153, 12:17/154, 12:05/162, 11:30/157,
7:29/158, 10:20(1.21mi)/158, 10:17/157, 9:06/158,
12:08/160, 10:47/162, 14:36/161, 11:40/160, 12:07/155,
15:27/161, 15:28/159, 14:13/156, 11:06/157, 12:03/152,
15:31/155, 13:36/149, 14:52/149, 18:52/152, 18:55/145,
14:59/142, 10:34/146, 13:06/149, 15:14/147, 16:47/147,
17:19/150, 16:50/150, 13:22/143, 17:03/143, 13:18/148,
13(1.02)/144, 9:35/148, 4:24/154 Couldn't get splits for it, but in Bull Run Run 2006 (8:55 on
all muddy trail), my HRavg was 156.
This year at Umstead 100, my HRavg was 140, below MAF,
although, I was well above MAF for about the first 65 miles
or so. ------------------
MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports
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KSC
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-11-2007 05:57 AM
I have a question regarding my mileage per day. Saturday I ran 6 miles, Sun 13, took the last two days off due to work, and plan on running 6 miles the next two days to put me at 31 miles for the week. I like to train five days a week since I always feel like I need a day off after my long runs due to sore achilies tendons and knees- I always feel like I have the energy and don't have any discomfort while walking, but I feel it while going down the stairs so I take a precautionary day off to fully recover.
To maximize the physiological adaptations gained from LHR training, is there an optimal way to split mileage throughout the week? Should I balance the distance of my runs or stick with the long run and 4 shorter runs? Should I do a long run, a mid distance run and 3 shorts? I like to keep up with the long runs since I'm going to be running the Atlanta Marathon on Thanksgiving (although I am probably going to opt for the 1/2 since I don't want to hurt myself increases mileage too quickly to be ready).
Since stopping my no-pain, no-gain approach, I've been able to extend my long runs by 5 miles and increase my weekly mileage by the same number in only 3 weeks. I haven't gained much in the way of speed at my MAF pace but am definitely able to maintain a decent pace for much longer at the same heartrate instead of quickly fading. When I started, I would do my 8 mile long runs starting around 8:30 per mile and would fade to nearly 10:00 per mile at the end. I started my 13 miler with an 8:28m/m for the first mile and finished at at 9:17m/m.Thanks for the advice, this thread has definitely turned my running approach 180 degrees for the better. Since reading it I've bought heatrate monitors for me and my wife and have devoted hours of reading to the subject. Running was a borderline arduous neccessity for my job, now it's an enjoyment that I look forward to with optimism.
IP: Logged |
Long Run Nick
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-11-2007 08:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by KSC:
I have a question regarding my mileage per day. Saturday I ran 6 miles, Sun 13, took the last two days off due to work, and plan on running 6 miles the next two days to put me at 31 miles for the week. I like to train five days a week since I always feel like I need a day off after my long runs due to sore achilies tendons and knees- I always feel like I have the energy and don't have any discomfort while walking, but I feel it while going down the stairs so I take a precautionary day off to fully recover.
To maximize the physiological adaptations gained from LHR training, is there an optimal way to split mileage throughout the week? Should I balance the distance of my runs or stick with the long run and 4 shorter runs? Should I do a long run, a mid distance run and 3 shorts? I like to keep up with the long runs since I'm going to be running the Atlanta Marathon on Thanksgiving (although I am probably going to opt for the 1/2 since I don't want to hurt myself increases mileage too quickly to be ready).
Since stopping my no-pain, no-gain approach, I've been able to extend my long runs by 5 miles and increase my weekly mileage by the same number in only 3 weeks. I haven't gained much in the way of speed at my MAF pace but am definitely able to maintain a decent pace for much longer at the same heartrate instead of quickly fading. When I started, I would do my 8 mile long runs starting around 8:30 per mile and would fade to nearly 10:00 per mile at the end. I started my 13 miler with an 8:28m/m for the first mile and finished at at 9:17m/m.Thanks for the advice, this thread has definitely turned my running approach 180 degrees for the better. Since reading it I've bought heatrate monitors for me and my wife and have devoted hours of reading to the subject. Running was a borderline arduous neccessity for my job, now it's an enjoyment that I look forward to with optimism.
KSC--a suggestion. Try going out a lot slower and pick up the pace on the latter part of your runs. If you are interested in long distance running this formula will work. The other solution is to run several warm up miles several minutes slower than your plan run pace. That means a 10 mile run becomes a 12 mile run--and if you are wise --you tack on a cool down mile. Yikes!! a 13 mile run--when you wanted to run 10. I think that is one of the ways I have been able to run over 64,000 miles over the last 3 decades. You are probably aware of the term negative splits. So, for a 10 mile run go out easier for the first 5 miles then pick up the pace and finish the second 5 miles a little quicker. Nick Physiologically and psychologically long distance runners gain confidence by holding back when you feel fresh and pushing some when you are getting tired. If you practice this approach I think you will surprise yourself. Remember--the first 20 miles of a marathon is 50% of the race--the last 10K is the other half.
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KSC
Cool Runner |
posted Sep-11-2007 08:45 AM
Thanks Nick. I set my alarm on my garmin to go off at 160 BPM (180-22+5=163, so I use an even 160) and just run comfortably. I glance down every 5-10 minutes to check and I'm usually in the 155-158 range while running comfortably. My aerobic fitness isn't where I want it to be so my pace deteriorates as the run progresses and I slow to keep my HR in the zone. Should I retool my runs and go, say, 145 for the first 3 miles, 150 next 3, 155 for 3, 160 the rest of the way out?
Right now my warmup is about a 1/2 mile walk out to the road, then I jog/walk for about another 1/2 mile till I get to the main road. upon returning, I walk the 1/2 mile back up to my place, pick up my Gatorade that I have waiting and walk another 1/2 mile or so while drinking it. I finish every cool down with the rubdown straight out of Runners World a few months back and some stretching.
Thanks for your advice.
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