posted Sep-02-2007 08:42 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
It's over. All moved into to our new home. The past week--no running--but lots and lots of stairs while carrying boxes. By Friday, I felt like I had hiked a mountain or two. Tired legs. Maybe that helped to maintain a bit of fitness. Almost completely unpacked. This condo complex where we live is pretty big, and has lots of roads and hills. No dogs, minimal traffic. It'll be a great training course for the winter. Did five here tonight at The Farm. Nice. It'll be good to get back to a normal running schedule. Just in time for cooler weather.

Keep going!

--Jimmy

MAF log
profile

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As long as you kept your HR below MAF going up and down the
steps, then we'll cut you some slack.

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posted Sep-02-2007 08:58 PM            

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***********
My myspace
No Complaining
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ Because many have asked...
You have poopie pants.

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posted Sep-03-2007 07:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by leitnerj:
As long as you kept your HR below MAF going up and down the
steps, then we'll cut you some slack.

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I went over when I was carrying the boxes with my wife's shoes.
--Jimmy

MAF log

profile

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posted Sep-03-2007 12:20 PM               

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Originally posted by willamona:
I tried an experiment. I ran the last 10 miles of what turned out to be a 23+ miler in mostly shade and close to a clean water source. I had a fast run compared to recent long runs. More water and less sun was good for at least this single run. I have a half next week. So I don't get to try this again for a bit.

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posted Sep-03-2007 12:25 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by willamona:
I tried an experiment. I ran the last 10 miles of what turned out to be a 23+ miler in mostly shade and close to a clean water source. I had a fast run compared to recent long runs. More water and less sun was good for at least this single run. I have a half next week. So I don't get to try this again for a bit.

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I found that the sun makes a huge difference for me as well. A couple of weeks back, I ran the exact same 5 miler two days in a row. The temperature was identical, as was the relative humidity, but the first one was mid afternoon with lots of sun, the next day it was early in the morning, when the sun was still low in the sky, so there was lots of shade on my route. I ran the 5 miles 10 minutes faster on the second day. Looking back over my running log, I've noticed that the hot sun does seem to play a consistent role in the speed of my runs. I just can't wait for fall, so none of this will be an issue anymore!

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posted Sep-03-2007 03:49 PM               

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Originally posted by fredurie:
Was Derek Clayton overtraining before he set the world marathon
record? Yes.

Was Al Sal overtraining before he won Boston and New York? Yes

Was Steve Jones overtraining before he set the world marathon
record? Yes.

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I don't know about Jonesy, but the other 2 certainly were overtraining and had their careers shortened because of it.

For certain you have to work very, very hard for a long period of time to reach your potential, but to me, overtraining is the point where you train beyond your body's ability to adapt and recover, which is counter productive. The body can only adapt so quickly, " you can't push the river " as the old saying goes. You have to go step by step.

It reminds me of the story of the teenage runner who asked his coach how long it would take him to reach national class. " At least 5 years " was the reply. " But that's too long, " said the runner, " what if I train harder than anyone else? " " 10 years." the coach answered.

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posted Sep-03-2007 05:16 PM               

What the f?

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posted Sep-03-2007 05:53 PM            

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Originally posted by anya345:
Am I the only one out there that does not "get" this thread?

What the f?

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yes

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posted Sep-03-2007 07:10 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by anya345:
Am I the only one out there that does not "get" this thread?

What the f?

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I believe you'll have to be more specific. If you're looking for serious answers there are many people here willing to help. I'd start now but "what the f?" doesn't give me much to work with

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posted Sep-03-2007 08:34 PM               

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Originally posted by anya345:
Am I the only one out there that does not "get" this thread?

What the f?

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So, you asked two questions. Interesting phrasing. Let's see, "Am I the only one out there . . ." Out where? Are you out there? If so, you should come back. It's fun here, which isn't there, unless here and there are the same place, but that's neither here nor there. And since you went to the dreaded quotation marks, are you using "get" to mean "understand?" And if so, could you please just write that because I don't "get" what "get" is (except when I married into a Jewish family, I learned that a "get" is like a divorce, but I don't think you meant that. It doesn't make sense that way).

Let's turn, then to your second question. What the f? How does one answer that? My answer: Lemons.

There are things here that I don't "get." Discussions of anaerobic threshold's and numerical values confuse the crap out of me. Paraphrasing the Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, this thread "frightens and confuses me . . . but there is one thing I do know -- running easy will help you run longer and faster and healthier." In many ways, it's like the golf instruction: "swing down to hit up." Here it's slow down to speed up. Curious, no?

Oh, and because I love Cirroc: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/91/91gcaveman.phtml

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posted Sep-03-2007 09:07 PM               

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Originally posted by martinjames:

Oh, and because I love Cirroc: http://snltranscripts.jt.org/91/91gcaveman.phtml

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No doubt - I really do miss Phil Hartman!

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posted Sep-03-2007 09:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aharmer:
I believe you'll have to be more specific. If you're looking for serious answers there are many people here willing to help. I'd start now but "what the f?" doesn't give me much to work with

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I couldn't help but think of this thread after my half marathon race yesterday. (Virginia Beach HM) I was at an Irish pub (of sorts....) and ran into another HM'er. He was, I believe, 54 years old, and talking about qualifying for Boston.

HIs "new" regimen is going to be to run 3 days a week. (and cross train) The first 2 days will be "faster than marathon pace" workouts, and then on his long run run up to one half of it at marathon pace.

He was a nice guy...and I tried to politely steer him to the notion of mostly "easy" days....and then later on add some harder workouts in. He couldn't understand how I could train slower than he does on most days and yet run 16+ minutes faster than him in the HM.

He was also shocked at how my wife trains at mostly 10:20 to 11:30 depending on the heat, and then runs her HM at an 8:56 pace, which wasn't even at full effort. That is with no speedwork, mind you.

As for me, I've been running a lot of 8:45+ paced runs at MAF, but many in the heat were well over 9:00. A few runs on low humidity mornings were around 8:30. I did speedwork once a week on average, alternating between a 20 to 25 minute tempo run or 800/1600 repeats.

Anyway, my HM pace was 7:01. The speed was there...the conditioning was easily there. I ran negative splits for each 5K, and probably left a bit out there, which was fine with me, as this was a tuneup to see where I was at for my BQ attempt in October. My average HR was 180. I ran miles 3 through 8 at 178 average each mile. My MAF is 144.

This stuff works.

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posted Sep-03-2007 10:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anya345:
Am I the only one out there that does not "get" this thread?

What the f?

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No. You're not alone. My fat Uncle Carl doesn't get it either.

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posted Sep-04-2007 08:38 AM               

quote:

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What the f?

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I think those who "dont get this thread", need to go to the initial posting and start from there.
This thread has some very excellent posts and is very good reading.

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posted Sep-04-2007 08:45 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by leitnerj:
No doubt - I really do miss Phil Hartman!

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Me too.

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posted Sep-04-2007 08:55 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Docster:
I couldn't help but think of this thread after my half marathon race yesterday. (Virginia Beach HM) I was at an Irish pub (of sorts....) and ran into another HM'er. He was, I believe, 54 years old, and talking about qualifying for Boston.

HIs "new" regimen is going to be to run 3 days a week. (and cross train) The first 2 days will be "faster than marathon pace" workouts, and then on his long run run up to one half of it at marathon pace.

He was a nice guy...and I tried to politely steer him to the notion of mostly "easy" days....and then later on add some harder workouts in. He couldn't understand how I could train slower than he does on most days and yet run 16+ minutes faster than him in the HM.

He was also shocked at how my wife trains at mostly 10:20 to 11:30 depending on the heat, and then runs her HM at an 8:56 pace, which wasn't even at full effort. That is with no speedwork, mind you.

As for me, I've been running a lot of 8:45+ paced runs at MAF, but many in the heat were well over 9:00. A few runs on low humidity mornings were around 8:30. I did speedwork once a week on average, alternating between a 20 to 25 minute tempo run or 800/1600 repeats.

Anyway, my HM pace was 7:01. The speed was there...the conditioning was easily there. I ran negative splits for each 5K, and probably left a bit out there, which was fine with me, as this was a tuneup to see where I was at for my BQ attempt in October. My average HR was 180. I ran miles 3 through 8 at 178 average each mile. My MAF is 144.

This stuff works.

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I have a friend with exactly the same mindset as the half marathoner you describe. He's about 40 minutes slower than me in the marathon, but the truth is, I don't like to train with him very often because he runs too fast for me. I don't think he believes me when I tell him how slow I train most of the time.

And, nice race by the way. 7:01 pace for the half, you should be able to run 3:10-3:15 for the marathon. I don't know what your BQ time is, but even 3:10 should be within reach.

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posted Sep-04-2007 08:57 AM               

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posted Sep-04-2007 09:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
I went over when I was carrying the boxes with my wife's shoes.
--Jimmy

MAF log

profile

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I keep reading this as "carrying the boxes in my wife's shoes." It makes me laugh every time.

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posted Sep-04-2007 09:16 AM            

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Originally posted by DanMoriarity:
I have a friend with exactly the same mindset as the half marathoner you describe. He's about 40 minutes slower than me in the marathon, but the truth is, I don't like to train with him very often because he runs too fast for me. I don't think he believes me when I tell him how slow I train most of the time.

And, nice race by the way. 7:01 pace for the half, you should be able to run 3:10-3:15 for the marathon. I don't know what your BQ time is, but even 3:10 should be within reach.

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Thanks Dan! I need a sub 3:16. The course is the Twin Cities, which is pretty fast except for a 180 foot climb from miles ~20 to 23. I've thought about 3:10 as a goal since PacerChris from these boards is the pacer at 3:10, but I would rather not risk going out a bit too fast, especially with the 2nd half being harder than the first.

The Virginia Beach HM is flat and fast, but it shouldn't be near that warm in October (hopefully...) so I figure they cancel out.

Ironically, I went out for 7 miles today, and my HR was much higher than normal for those temps. (given my pace, of course)

Looks like the next few days (hopefully not weeks) will be below MAF to get rested back up.

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posted Sep-04-2007 09:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DanMoriarity:
I have a friend with exactly the same mindset as the half marathoner you describe. He's about 40 minutes slower than me in the marathon, but the truth is, I don't like to train with him very often because he runs too fast for me. I don't think he believes me when I tell him how slow I train most of the time.

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I can definitely identify with this phenomenon. I like to train with people; or at least those with whom I have a common interest to have a good discussion on the run. Yet... I'm viewed as a "sandbagger" by the people I periodically run with. I prefer to do my runs on the slow end for them, and periodically reel them back in. Yet, I have faster times for most race distances. In general, I end up running with people whose marathon time is 20 min slower than mine in order to find someone who trains at the same pace. Otherwise, if I train with people with similar marathon times, they're going too fast.

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posted Sep-04-2007 09:42 AM            

A few people have given tips lately that I think are great, for me at least. Someone mentioned 10 hours of running a week and I am going to change from miles run per week to hours per week and eventually get from my current 5 hours to the suggested 10 hours.

Also, someone mentioned nose breathing. Since reading that I have noticed that when I breath through my nose I will get to that point where I have to open my mouth and take a deep breath. Without fail my HRM beeps within 3 steps after that breath! This came in handy the day I had my HRM watch on but my HRM strap was at home....grrrr!

Lastly, I decided to pass on a few races I would normally do and commit to MAF until these races next year. If I can stay away from the injury bug and get to 10+ hours a week MAF running, I am expecting to see "great" rewards from this training.

Thanks!

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posted Sep-04-2007 09:49 AM               

I have just finished up 4 months and over 900 miles of MAF training. Prior to MAF I ran around 10-10:30 training miles and raced at 7-7:30 min miles. With MAF--and FL summer--trained around 11 min+ miles. Feel great. Increased days of running from 5-6 and mileage from 40-45 to 55-60.

I run my first race--a 5K on Saturday--since late April. It will be fun to see where I am. I continually post my miles run--currently over 64,500 to give perspective. I decided 31+ yrs ago to become a life time runner. If that becomes your goal--how fast you run your next marathon isn't quite as important. Although, when I run my next marathon in Huntsville in December--I want to beat the time I ran in ther back in 1977 (a 3:58). Nick

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posted Sep-04-2007 10:19 AM               

I've taken a few days off due to a rapidly rising resting HR, and some other symptoms that my body needs a break. I was feeling pretty good this morning, my resting HR is almost back to normal (53 today, vs. normal- 50), and all the other little symptoms I was having are gone.

I was eager to get out there and start running again this morning. So I went out and ran 6 miles. Not exactly a good run- my pace averaged 12min/mile. This is almost the slowest run I've done since I started low HR training (second only to the horrible run I had last week that convinced me to take some time off). I know I need to be patient right now- pollen counts are ridiculously high, and those with allergies (like me) are really suffering. And I am exactly one day away from a much needed vacation, so work stress has been getting under my skin a lot more than normal. But its really, really frustrating! I'm sure that a vacation will help to some degree, but there is at least another month left to go in the allergy season, and the idea of a whole month of painfully slow runs is not overly appealing. I guess I just need a little encouragement right now....

Oh- one more question- does anyone else find themselves getting ravenously hungry part way through your runs? I can typically run up to 6-7 miles on an empty stomach without difficulty. Anything more than that and I'll usually eat some eggs before heading out. But lately, I've found myself feeling absolutely starving after 3-4 miles. I'm sure this is having an impact on my HR and my speed, just like the stress and the allergies. Could I just not be eating enough in general? My eating habits and calorie intake really haven't changed at all, so maybe my metabolism has. I'm not sure what's going on here, so I was hoping someone here could help me out.

Thanks everyone!

Pam

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posted Sep-04-2007 10:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by anya345:
Am I the only one out there that does not "get" this thread?

What the f?

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Different strokes for different folks.

My PR at 20k was 12.4 miles @ 5:25 a mile. My training pace was 6 to
6:25 a mile on recovery days. If I had slowed to 7:30 pace and run more
threshold workouts at 5:40 to 5:50 a mile, I would have been faster.

C'est la vie.

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posted Sep-04-2007 10:40 AM               

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