| Author |
Topic: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, a la Maffetone and Mark Allen |
roy c
Cool Runner |
 posted Dec-22-2006 08:22 AM
   
quote:
Originally posted by StealthRunner:
Roy, are you training for a marathon?Cathy
Hi Cathy
No, just upped the mileage. I intend to run my first marathon next October, so may start a program in July for that or just carry on with the base training.
Roy[This message has been edited by roy c (edited Dec-22-2006).]
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HeeHaw
Member |
posted Dec-22-2006 09:38 AM
This might be a bit off topic but has anyone ever have problems with their heart rate monitor. I did my first MAF test on Tuesday. Wow was it slow but since then my monitor fades out after a mile or so. Just the heart rate part. The stop watch and everything else still works. My running partner says he running with a dead person. I wear the Polar S180 model if that is any help. Here are the results of my first test:1st mile: 8:20
2nd mile: 8:18
3rd mile: 8:29
4th mile: 8:20
total time: 33:25 All of the times were trying to keep my heart rate in the 140-145 range. I usually can do this loop on my easy days in 30 minutes. Pretty humbling.
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dg9
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-22-2006 09:14 PM
i had that problem too. being new to it i figured it was something i was or wasn't doing. then i read that if that happens the belt probably needs to be a little bit tighter. (the problem being sweat) it did help.
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Docster
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-22-2006 11:34 PM
The only times I've had some oddness with my HRM was when I didn't lubricate it well enough before heading out. Of course, after a mile or so it self corrected since my body sweat did the trick, but I was a bit surprised to see a heart rate of 140 (MAF = 145 for me) when running down a steep hill with my wife early in the first mile...it's usually at 115 or so.  Other than that...no problems so far.
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gregw
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-23-2006 01:47 PM
One possibility with the HRM is that the battery in the belt might be dying. Another, as others have said, is losing contact; however, I usually have this problem at the beginning of runs (before I sweat) rather than the end. I'm now using buh-bump electrode cream, which solves the problem at the beginning of runs.
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HeeHaw
Member |
posted Dec-23-2006 04:14 PM
Thanks everyone. You could never tell I went to school for engineering, my watch just needed a new battery. Thanks again. Happy Holidays!
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bdags
Member |
posted Dec-23-2006 04:34 PM
Just curious as to what people are using to gather data such as per mile splits, avg heart rate per mile, etc. My HRM is not capable of this and have been researching a bit. Will the Polar 200sd be sufficient or do I need the 800sd or a Garmin?bdags
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-23-2006 08:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bdags:
Just curious as to what people are using to gather data such as per mile splits, avg heart rate per mile, etc. My HRM is not capable of this and have been researching a bit. Will the Polar 200sd be sufficient or do I need the 800sd or a Garmin?bdags
Right now, I use a relatively cheap HRM+a Garmin forerunner 201.
Each time the mile bleeps off, I click the split on the HRM. However,
I just won a forerunner 305 on ebay for 210, so as soon as that gets
in I'll use that! ------------------
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StealthRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-23-2006 08:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by leitnerj:
[
I just won a forerunner 305 on ebay for 210, so as soon as that gets
in I'll use that![/B]
Congrats! It's about time you treated yourself. I know you have been wanting one for a long tiime. Tell us how you like it. Enjoy- Cathy
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ZimGrlRun
Member |
posted Dec-24-2006 03:51 PM
Hello fellow MAFers,I have been Maffing for the past 8 weeks, at the beginning doing 3 times a week, but now doing 4 times a week. I started around 30 mpw and am now at 40 mpw. I have generally not done anything on my off dayz, a 45 min Yoga session here and there. But I just got a stationary bike which I am going to use on off days. How much time should I spend on the bike? Also, do you count the miles/time done on bike as part of mileage? If so, how? I can't wait to use my bike! Thanks for your responses.
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footsie
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-24-2006 04:00 PM
Sorry If this has been posted before but never the less
I am out of running for at least 4-6 weeks with a tibial stress fracture up to the point if the fracture I had been maffetone training with a view to run a marathon in 2 weeks time 
I have been swimming for the last 2 weeks and have just bought an aquajogger (ran today 45 mins ) 2 questions 1) do i run at my Maff HR (143 as I am 38) or lower as the water is cooling (somebody in the pool tonight asked how I could be sweating ??? ) 2) can a garmin 301 (I have a 305 aswell ) work under water as I found it very hard to guestimate my HR TIA Footsie
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-24-2006 08:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by StealthRunner:
Congrats! It's about time you treated yourself. I know you have been wanting one for a long tiime. Tell us how you like it. Enjoy- Cathy
thanks, Cathy! I'm still in my self-proscribed 3 week hiatus after
hellgate, so I'll be rearin' to go! ------------------
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-24-2006 08:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ZimGrlRun:
Hello fellow MAFers,I have been Maffing for the past 8 weeks, at the beginning doing 3 times a week, but now doing 4 times a week. I started around 30 mpw and am now at 40 mpw. I have generally not done anything on my off dayz, a 45 min Yoga session here and there. But I just got a stationary bike which I am going to use on off days. How much time should I spend on the bike? Also, do you count the miles/time done on bike as part of mileage? If so, how? I can't wait to use my bike! Thanks for your responses.
It's wide open how much you should use your stationary bike.
You'll probably have to crank up the resistance just to keep
around the MAF heart rate. Track exercise bike time as a
separate quantity. It doesn't equate to running in any sense,
but it will help your aerobic development if you're intense enough.
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-24-2006 08:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by footsie:
Sorry If this has been posted before but never the less
I am out of running for at least 4-6 weeks with a tibial stress fracture up to the point if the fracture I had been maffetone training with a view to run a marathon in 2 weeks time
I have been swimming for the last 2 weeks and have just bought an aquajogger (ran today 45 mins ) 2 questions 1) do i run at my Maff HR (143 as I am 38) or lower as the water is cooling (somebody in the pool tonight asked how I could be sweating ??? ) 2) can a garmin 301 (I have a 305 aswell ) work under water as I found it very hard to guestimate my HR TIA Footsie
sorry about your stress fracture - can be very frustrating indeed!
Don't wear your garmin in the pool. If you want to wear a HR monitor
for your water sessions, I suggest you buy a cheap-o polar B1 or
something, that with a little bit of clever shopping, you can get
for around $30. I use the same HR for swimming as I do for
running and biking, and I would do the same for aqua-jogging as
well. good luck with your recovery! ------------------
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StealthRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-25-2006 10:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by leitnerj:
thanks, Cathy! I'm still in my self-proscribed 3 week hiatus after
hellgate, so I'll be rearin' to go!
No way in he$$ I would ever run a race called Hellgate!! I read your race report over on the ultra board. Fitting name. Sounds like you really need that three weeks off. Take care of yourself and rest that ankle. Cathy
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bdags
Member |
posted Dec-27-2006 09:24 PM
This may have been answered here before. When you train at MAF pace, should you use sports drinks on your long runs, or stick with water? Thanks.bdags
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bdags
Member |
posted Dec-27-2006 09:51 PM
I'll tell you this MAF training has been a humbling experience. Ran competitively in high school...2:04 - 800M and 53 second 400M. Not all state by any means but very good. The training was almost all anerobic, so I never really have built up my aerobic capacity to anywhere near its potential. Fast forward 20 years with very little running since high school, smoked for a while, etc. etc. About 2 months ago I decided to give it a go again and set a goal to do a marathon in the summer of '08 and maybe a half in '07. Now I'm addicted. I ran across this thread a few weeks ago and decided to give MAF a try. Started off with 180-age(37)=143. Worked my way down to 11:15/mile for 4-5 miles, but had a hell of a time staying under 143 for the last 2 miles. It would drift 5-7 beats/m. A week ago, I decided to drop 5 beats off my pace, which is probably what I should have done in the first place. Ouch!!! Now my pace is 13:00/m+!! Little old ladies pass me at that speed! I no longer am getting the 5-7 beat drift so obviously 138 is the appropriate HR. The moral of the story is that if you are starting this for the first time you need to swallow your pride and use the appropriate HR. If you're getting the 5-7 beat drift like I was on a 5 mile run lower your target 5 beats and try that. I'm new at this and know it is going to require alot of patience for a type "A" personality such as myself, but, I'm going to give it my best shot! bdags
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aharmer
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-27-2006 11:11 PM
bdags,Good for you! The pace sucks but you'll improve quickly. Your previous question about sportsdrinks...if possible don't drink them before running or during the first 30 minutes of a run. Also don't eat within 2 hours of a run if possible. I can't remember if you've read Jesse's FAQ...if not find one of the leitnerj messages and click on his FAQ. Lots of great information there. He was running 17 minute miles in the beginning and now does 3:20 marathons routinely. ------------------
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d3finition
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-29-2006 11:25 PM
Weight training is anaerobic and will interfere with this basebuilding process, particularly if done in the lower body. I am curious if squats/lunges can be done. I am not referring to heavy weight lifting in the gym, just simple squats and lunges done. In my own experience I have seen tremendous improvement in my running when doing these exercises and I am curious if this will interfere with my basebuilding progress. d3finition
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-30-2006 08:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by d3finition:
Weight training is anaerobic and will interfere with this basebuilding process, particularly if done in the lower body. I am curious if squats/lunges can be done. I am not referring to heavy weight lifting in the gym, just simple squats and lunges done. In my own experience I have seen tremendous improvement in my running when doing these exercises and I am curious if this will interfere with my basebuilding progress. d3finition
You'll probably be fine with it.
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Tommytwolegs
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-30-2006 09:16 AM
If I'm doing all my runs in the MAF zone with a schedule today like 0-3-6-3-6-3-9 miles ... and going up <10% miles per week from here ... would it be unwise to add in another "short" run on the 7th day?I'm not overly tired or sore so far on the 6-day schedule. I plan on taking a step-back week every 4-5 weeks where I drop all the short days (about 1/3 the miles). Thanks,
--Thomas
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aharmer
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-30-2006 09:21 AM
Hey Tommy,I believe you would see more benefit in adding the day-7 mileage to your long run at the end of the week. Make that 12 instead of 9 and take the rest day. The longer runs are the ones that really start to initiate the physiological changes you're looking for. ------------------
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DaddyCoop
Member |
posted Dec-30-2006 01:33 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by footsie:I am out of running for at least 4-6 weeks with a tibial stress fracture up to the point if the fracture I had been maffetone training with a view to run a marathon in 2 weeks time I have been swimming for the last 2 weeks and have just bought an aquajogger (ran today 45 mins ) 2 questions 1) do i run at my Maff HR (143 as I am 38) or lower as the water is cooling (somebody in the pool tonight asked how I could be sweating ??? ) 2) can a garmin 301 (I have a 305 aswell ) work under water as I found it very hard to guestimate my HR
Footsie,
Ugggh - gotta hate those stress fractures. Unfortunately I see them far too often in my patients. A couple of thoughts on your training options: *I would worry less about your actual HR in the pool as you are correct - the water temperature will lower your HR and make your "land" levels inaccurate. *Instead, I would focus on doing repeat intervals of 45 sec on/15 sec off (lower intensity), working up to 5 min intervals with 1 min rest. If you're wearing a HR monitor, you can find your "pool baseline" during these intervals similar to what you would do on land. *As the stress fracture begins to heal, you may find you're able to move toward a bike on a trainer (or stationary bike). Then, long before you're able to "run" outside, you can probably get on a treadmill with a pretty decent elevation (5-8%). Not only is the T-mill a softer surface, but the incline further decreases the pounding (your front foot makes contact higher up). Hope this helps. We send out a bunch of tips like this in our regular (and free) training newsletter if you're interested (www.FullSpectrumCoaching.Net). All the best - and hang in there! You'll be back!!!
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runyak
Member |
posted Dec-31-2006 12:06 PM
Taper question / last long run strange reactionI've been on MAF (134) since mid-May, maintained 5K speed?? (22:00), picked up a PB in the half by 5 minutes (1:41), and it is now 2 weeks out from my marathon here in Phoenix. I've listed my plan but perhaps, someone with more experience with MAF could comment. Sun 0 rest
Mon 12 MAF
Tue 6 MAF(5)/strides(1)
Wed 12 MAF
Thu 4 MAF(3)/strides(1)
Fri 3 MAF
Sat 8 MAF(5)/MP(3)
45 Sun 0 rest
Mon 3 MAF(2)/strides(1)
Tue 2 MAF
Wed 6 MAF(4)/MP(2)
Thu 2 MAF
Fri 3 MAF(2)/strides(1)
Sat 2 MAF(2)/strides(1)
18 Saturday's last long run of 21.5 miles did not go as well as prior long runs. This run, I tried to keep the HR BELOW MAF by running more slowly than normal. Result was very little HR creep and pace change, but had to stop at mile 21 after being out just over 4 hours. Strange reactions - vision acting like my eyes were dilated and legs felt like thick tree trunks. HR was normal. Air temp was OK. I routinely take only water on my long runs, and assumed I was well hydrated. Only thing I can think of is lack of carbs as once I did get home (just another 0.5 miles walking), I felt immediately better after downing 2 sodas, 6 chocolate truffles, and 2 glasses of Accelerade. Thanks
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-31-2006 12:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by runyak:
Saturday's last long run of 21.5 miles did not go as well as prior long runs. This run, I tried to keep the HR BELOW MAF by running more slowly than normal. Result was very little HR creep and pace change, but had to stop at mile 21 after being out just over 4 hours. Strange reactions - vision acting like my eyes were dilated and legs felt like thick tree trunks. HR was normal. Air temp was OK. I routinely take only water on my long runs, and assumed I was well hydrated. Only thing I can think of is lack of carbs as once I did get home (just another 0.5 miles walking), I felt immediately better after downing 2 sodas, 6 chocolate truffles, and 2 glasses of Accelerade.
I can only guess you were dehydrated. How much did you weigh
before and after your run and how much did you drink during?
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