posted Oct-25-2006 04:39 AM               

I usually use three fans when I run on the TM along with a V, VCR with headphones.

Ted

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posted Oct-25-2006 05:48 AM            

5-5 is pretty amazing that you can keep that regular, for me anything more than 3-3 breathing is what I'm calling disassociated, ie no regular pattern.

Doing that I can keep my HR at ~130, manually with a stopwatch.

I'v tried spit, water, hair gel, shampoo and replacing the batteries etc, but my HRM still loses its signal and its more frustrating than its worth.

If I was only a runner, I could due this totally, but I can not give up anaerobic activities, but it helps me to slow down and not race every workout.

thanks

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posted Oct-25-2006 07:16 AM               

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posted Oct-25-2006 01:02 PM            

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posted Oct-25-2006 01:58 PM            

Roy C and I are here from the Boomers.

This plan calls for 180- your age no matter what your max heart rate is.

Yes guaranteed you will have to walk part of this at first to keep your heart rate under the target. Yes its frustrating.

I started at 18 minute miles, and stayed in running motion even though I could easily walk faster than that.

It will take a few weeks before you can run at your target heart rate without walking.

I can now train at Maf -5 at better than 12 minute miles. I did a half marathon averaging 9:46 pace and Monday did a group run for 5.5 miles at an 8:20 pace but that was way over maf, as was the half marathon.

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posted Oct-25-2006 02:35 PM            

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posted Oct-25-2006 06:19 PM               

I also tried again and noticed I got a better pace on the TM if I increased my steps/min, rather than slowing down my turnover to match the TM speed.

Thanks!!

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posted Oct-25-2006 07:39 PM               

[This message has been edited by roy c (edited Oct-25-2006).]

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posted Oct-25-2006 08:34 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by helives:
Thanks Cash, and does that mean that my maf rate would be 133 max (180-47)? So I would need to keep my rate under 133 at all times, or is this a percentage type thing like 133-143? Thanks again, and it seems to me like it is a long term thing to benefit from it.

---

If you have just come off of an 8 week hiatus, then you should be
targeting 128 or below during your entire basebuilding phase. It will
probably be slower than a snail for a bit.

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[This message has been edited by leitnerj (edited Oct-25-2006).]

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posted Oct-26-2006 02:43 PM            

Background: I've been MAFing since July with good results. Gone from 13mm at a MAF HR of 151 to consistent 10mm. I average a HR of 148 during my runs and do not go above MAF. The last few weeks I stopped seeing the progressive improvement at MAF that I was used to seeing, despite consistency and the benefit of much cooler weather. I thought perhaps it was time to mix things up a bit and add in a day a week of speed work.

Here's the thing: Before taking to MAF, I ran all my runs too fast and at too high of a HR. I averaged 8:45mm at HR of 165-175. Even though it was too fast/too hard, I never really felt that uncomfortable or labored. I was able to do 10 miles at that pace/HR without feeling bad. However, now that I've been running MAF, it seems any HR over 160 wears me down really, really quick. Today I did a 2 mile warmup at MAF but then only managed a pathetic 1.5 mile "tempo" with HR of 160-165 and a pace of 9:18mm. For as slow as I was I really don't think I could have gone any faster and couldn't keep up the tempo any further.

As dumb as it may sound, I'm afraid my body has forgotten how to run fast... well, not fast but fast for me. When I run at MAF I can go forever so I don't think it's an aerobic thing. I don't understand why I was able to run at a higher HR/faster pace prior to MAF and now I'm not able to maintain that pace/HR. Any insight? Am I doing something wrong? I currently run 5 days 40-50mpw all at MAF with the exception of one day the last two weeks where I have tried a "tempo" run and a HM back in September.

Thanks for any feedback. I'm feeling pretty bum right now. I'm really afraid of how this is going to translate when I race.

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posted Oct-26-2006 03:01 PM            

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posted Oct-26-2006 06:09 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by OnlyWhnChasd:
Checking in with a question about running at a HR above MAF.

Background: I've been MAFing since July with good results. Gone from 13mm at a MAF HR of 151 to consistent 10mm. I average a HR of 148 during my runs and do not go above MAF. The last few weeks I stopped seeing the progressive improvement at MAF that I was used to seeing, despite consistency and the benefit of much cooler weather. I thought perhaps it was time to mix things up a bit and add in a day a week of speed work.

Here's the thing: Before taking to MAF, I ran all my runs too fast and at too high of a HR. I averaged 8:45mm at HR of 165-175. Even though it was too fast/too hard, I never really felt that uncomfortable or labored. I was able to do 10 miles at that pace/HR without feeling bad. However, now that I've been running MAF, it seems any HR over 160 wears me down really, really quick. Today I did a 2 mile warmup at MAF but then only managed a pathetic 1.5 mile "tempo" with HR of 160-165 and a pace of 9:18mm. For as slow as I was I really don't think I could have gone any faster and couldn't keep up the tempo any further.

As dumb as it may sound, I'm afraid my body has forgotten how to run fast... well, not fast but fast for me. When I run at MAF I can go forever so I don't think it's an aerobic thing. I don't understand why I was able to run at a higher HR/faster pace prior to MAF and now I'm not able to maintain that pace/HR. Any insight? Am I doing something wrong? I currently run 5 days 40-50mpw all at MAF with the exception of one day the last two weeks where I have tried a "tempo" run and a HM back in September.

Thanks for any feedback. I'm feeling pretty bum right now. I'm really afraid of how this is going to translate when I race.

---

Just to let you, any time I try to run above MAF in training, it feels
way too hard! However, that's not the case in a race at all.
In either case, I think you're definitely ready to start sprinkling
in some fast finishes to long runs (and, yes, it will feel hard) and
some races as well. You're ready for a spark.

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posted Oct-26-2006 06:12 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by helives:
I also have a question. Can/does this type of training work for boys/girls in the 15-18 age group? Also wondering if racing at all hurts, but I think I remember reading that it stops progress.

---

For that age group, there is still value in putting in a period of
easy base miles, but I wouldn't mess with the heart rate monitor.
The age-based equations won't do much good and at that age,
almost everything short of sprinting will be aerobic.

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posted Oct-26-2006 09:54 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by helives:
Ok I am now back and ready to roll after 8 weeks off, and thought I might try this out. If my max heart rate is 185 (tested in a lab on the mill before surgery) what HR should I start out at? I have run some the last couple of weeks and find it very difficult to run lower than 70%. I thnik I could actually walk faster. These arelike 14-16 minute miles, and are very hard to do. Before surgery I was about a 21-22 minute 5Ker, but times slowed as distance grew. Therefore I think I need this if there is any help out there you can post it here or my email is rockyx59@yahoo.com
Thanks

---

Hey Rocky,

With a 21 minute 5k, you aren't a slow runner and will be shocked at first at how slow you might have to go to stay under MAF. If you're doing 70%, I suggest adding 5 beats to your max hr, as you probably didn't hit in the lab. Later on, when you're in running shape and racin again, wear the HRM in a longer type race and run the last half mile as hard as you can, you'll probably find that it'll be higher than 185.

Any, I started the MAF training at the beginning of the year, and was doing some slow paces. More than a few times, I found myself running 14-15 minutes per mile at the end of some runs. Very, very temporary. Paid off big time.

You might start with a gallowalking type thiing for the first month to keep under your ceiling. Run 4 minutes, walk 1 sort of thing.

Good luck!

--Jimmy

My running world

Current Training

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posted Oct-27-2006 02:17 AM            

A race every few weeks is not affecting my progress. But if you are racing a lot yes it may chip away at your progress.

By the way, I find that my legs do NOT forget how to run fast on race day. I can just keep my speed for a lot longer, which is winding up in faster times for me.

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posted Oct-27-2006 09:07 AM               

I have been training Maff method and have seen amazing improvements and wish to continue for another 6 weeks when i have a 1/2 marathon 4 weeks before a full.

WILL it compromise my aerobic capacity to do a run to see what my Max HR is say after an 8km Maff run just do the last lap untill i feel like vomitting :-)

OR do I just continue this method of training untill the 1/2

TIA

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posted Oct-27-2006 09:43 AM            

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posted Oct-27-2006 10:16 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by helives:
Thanks guys, I ran 3.5 miles last night avg 128 BPM and about a 14 MM pace. The only thing that bothers me with this type of training is wondering about my long runs, it seems the more milage the slower I have to go. Now I know that is because of poor aerobic capacity, but it seems like a 10 miler is going to take a bunch of my time on the weekend. Also it is killing my daughter trying to run with me lol

---

Without a doubt, it is going to take time from your days on the weekends to do those longer runs!!!! I was where you are, and I thought I was the only one running this slow. However, if you can increase your runs, and spend more time on your feet, safely, and your ready for it, that pace will come down at the same HR. In fact, you may see that your run the following day will be alittle faster at the same pace! I remember when I first began Maffetone, years ago, I ran 90 min. one day, 60 min., the next, then 75m, and 1:45....and kept alternating days like this, and on Sunday I would go longer than my longest time of the weekday run. However, I had a base of mileage BEFORE I began Maffetone, and knew I handle this *time on my feet* regime. I ran injury free all while doing this, and my longer runs on the weekend got faster and faster. Could you go by time, rather than distance right now??? Sometimes that helps. If you go by mileage, your later miles will be slower until your body gets stronger....but, the more you do it, you will see it all even out, and go farther without dropping pace. It really comes down to volume, or so I believe. The more volume you can handle, the faster you will see results. If it makes you feel better, my first few 10 milers took way over 2 hours; and if hills (or warm temps) were part of the course, it was even longer!!!!! But I got stronger and stronger

Kris

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posted Oct-27-2006 04:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
I would say 3:35ish is in the cards. Give or take. Depends on the weather you get

---

Well, how about 23 mph winds with gusts to 36 at 8 am on Sunday . That 3:40 pace band I picked up at the expo this morning is looking ambitious

Greg

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posted Oct-27-2006 11:20 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by gregw:
Well, how about 23 mph winds with gusts to 36 at 8 am on Sunday . That 3:40 pace band I picked up at the expo this morning is looking ambitious

Greg

---

Of glycogen may there be no lack
may the speedy wind be at your back

Go get it, Greg. Have the time of your life!
--Jimmy

Current Marathon Training
My Running World

MAF training source:
Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone

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posted Oct-27-2006 11:33 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by helives:
Thanks guys, I ran 3.5 miles last night avg 128 BPM and about a 14 MM pace. The only thing that bothers me with this type of training is wondering about my long runs, it seems the more milage the slower I have to go. Now I know that is because of poor aerobic capacity, but it seems like a 10 miler is going to take a bunch of my time on the weekend. Also it is killing my daughter trying to run with me lol

---

Whenever someone seems a bit weird about you training so slow (which includes you), just hand them a card that reads "Don't worry, it's temporary." Takes awhile, but you'll get there. I started the year running 12-13:00 minute miles banging at the MAF ceiling. Some of the miles were 14-15:00. My training paces are a lot faster now compared to then.
Did it payoff in races? Yes.

Good luck.

--Jimmy

My running world
Current MAFTraining

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posted Oct-28-2006 01:37 PM            

I went with the lower 125 bpm instead of 134. Here's my first official MAF run.

11:41
11:00
10:50
11:12
11:10
10:54
11:04
10:54
11:10
11:37

I'm still running at this HR and it doesn't appear that I'm drifting up too much towards the end of the run. A women who i could heard breathing pretty hard passed me. I felt like I needed to explain how low my heart rate was. Maybe I'll pass her in a race!

Also I don't think I'm ever going to get a pure test since there are so many factors that affect this. It was very windy and I am still recovering from a cold. There always seems to be something.

I did not have HR splits because my usual HRM decided to not work today. The one I used did not have split times.

Questions:

1) I just replaced the chest strap battery and I replaced the watch battery in July. This monitor worked great for me all summer. Now sometimes it picks up a signal sometimes not. Any Ideas on what the problem might be? It's a timex Ironman w/gps.

2) How much does some extra weight affect MAF? By extra I mean 10-15 lbs on a 5' 4" frame.

Chris

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posted Oct-28-2006 01:42 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris345:

Questions:

1) I just replaced the chest strap battery and I replaced the watch battery in July. This monitor worked great for me all summer. Now sometimes it picks up a signal sometimes not. Any Ideas on what the problem might be? It's a timex Ironman w/gps.

2) How much does some extra weight affect MAF? By extra I mean 10-15 lbs on a 5' 4" frame.

Chris

---

Heart rate monitors can be very screwy, even good ones. What
are using to lubricate it? I don't think extra weight in and of itself
has a direct effect on MAF performance, but there's no doubt that
carrying more weight is going to require more effort at a given level
of fitness.

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posted Oct-28-2006 01:52 PM               

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posted Oct-28-2006 02:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leitnerj:
Heart rate monitors can be very screwy, even good ones. What
are using to lubricate it? I don't think extra weight in and of itself
has a direct effect on MAF performance, but there's no doubt that
carrying more weight is going to require more effort at a given level
of fitness.

---

When it was working I didn't use any Lubricate. It just started acting up for the marathon last week when I used a ton of bodyglide. since then I have cleaned the strap thouroughly and tried just plain water.

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