posted Oct-15-2006 10:13 PM               

Any data freaks like me who want all the data email me and I'll send it over. Basically, I've been running at 125bpm on all runs for about 5 months. My max HR is about 176. My marathon PR is 3:09 with no HR data available. HM PR is 1:29:00 with avg HR of 159.

I wasn't quite sure what HR to try and hold for a 100K, but thought it would be close to my training rate of 125. Jesse thought I would be able to run a bit higher than that. Guess what...Jesse was right! Big surprise.

For the Garmin users out there...My Garmin 305 read 62.4 miles at the finish. Interestingly, it was 0.4 miles high at the 10K mark. The final 90K it was dead on. The numbers listed below indicate the first 62 laps on my Garmin. It claims to have a 10 hour battery life and that's almost exactly the time I had it powered up. It gave me the "low battery" message at about 8 hours, but never turned off.

Finish Time: 9:49:30
Avg. / Mile: 9:30
Avg HR: 138
Interesting Finding: First 26.2 miles, 4:06:42. Second 26.2 miles, 4:06:48.

Hopefully this will help compliment all of Jesse's great data for cross-referencing purposes.

------------------
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posted Oct-15-2006 10:50 PM            

Jesse suggested I try running at 155-160 beats per minute.

End result. 2 hours 7 minutes.

Lap
(#) Time
(m:s) Distance
(mi ) M Spd
(mph) HR
(bpm) Energy
(Cal)
Avg Max
1 9:59 1.00 6.9 138 157 162 ( shoulder to shoulder runners)
2 8:29 1.00 7.8 154 163 139
3 9:19 1.00 7.6 159 166 165
4 9:16 1.00 7.6 161 174 148
5 9:22 1.00 7.8 164 170 161
6 9:29 1.00 6.7 161 167 159
7 9:47 1.00 6.5 163 167 162
8 9:44 1.00 6.5 163 168 163
9 9:46 1.00 6.9 165 169 157
10 9:32 1.00 6.7 166 174 157
11 9:49 1.00 6.9 166 173 197
12 10:06 1.00 7.2 167 175 159
13 10:40 1.00 8.5 168 179 177
14 2:32 0.32 8.5 170 188 47

Longest long run 10 and half miles this training cycle. Perhaps thats why I fell apart after mile 11. Last couple miles flat to slightly downhill

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posted Oct-16-2006 08:07 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aharmer:

Finish Time: 9:49:30
Avg. / Mile: 9:30
Avg HR: 138
Interesting Finding: First 26.2 miles, 4:06:42. Second 26.2 miles, 4:06:48.

---

Congratulations! Assuming you're not writing this from your hospital bed, it looks like you've achieved your goal. You have to be happy with your time as well. Back-to-back 4:06 marathons followed by a 10-miler in 1:36. To me that's incredible. Get some well-deserved rest.

Greg

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posted Oct-16-2006 12:27 PM               

On another note, CASHMASON you don't have your e-mail address listed. We're about the same age and I'm impressed with your posts. Could you e-mail me directly with some advice if you could? Any and all advice is much appreciated. Thanks gang.

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posted Oct-16-2006 01:25 PM            

quote:

---

The PF isn't new, unfortunately. I've had it since mid-April. It's been getting progressively worse, but I can still run. With all the miles I haven't really given it a chance to get better. Hopefully the taper and marathon recovery time will help, but I'm doing the Disney Goofy challenge (half on Sat/full on Sun) 10 weeks after MCM, so not much time to dawdle! I'm trying to figure out some plan that will give my PF the best chance to heal.

---

Greg, don't know if you're still having the PF problems, but this gizmo is supposed to do wonders for PF:

http://www.amazon.com/FootSmart-Step-Stretch/dp/B000182EAK/sr=8-1/qid=1161020352/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-8799073-7310361?ie=UTF8

I use it because I get calf cramps occasionally, this thing keeps my calves nice and loose.

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posted Oct-16-2006 02:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by purfledspruce:

Greg, don't know if you're still having the PF problems, but this gizmo is supposed to do wonders for PF:

http://www.amazon.com/FootSmart-Step-Stretch/dp/B000182EAK/sr=8-1/qid=1161020352/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-8799073-7310361?ie= UTF8

I use it because I get calf cramps occasionally, this thing keeps my calves nice and loose.

---

Thanks for the tip and for reminding me that I need to thank people for all the PF advice. I am still suffering from PF, but things have improved some in the couple of weeks after trying some of the tips I got here. Taping has been a big help and for a few days I thought it would be a panacea, but I've regressed some since then. I've also put heel cups in my work shoes and that's been an improvement. I haven't tried them in running shoes yet (a little apprehensive).

I tried something new in my long run on Sunday that also seemed to help. After reading some of the links on chirunning, I tried to concentrate on keeping my lower leg relaxed and attempted to not push off (which pulls on the fascia). It seems to have worked to an extent at least. After my long run Sunday, I was able to shuffle more easily than usual from my car to buy ice at the gas station. Relaxing my foot seems to work in conjuction with the taping, letting the tape absorb the shock.

I also found a great web site http://heelspurs.com that has lots of things to try (including the ProStretch). With this injury, it seems like everyone's an experiment of one and sometimes it's a combination of approaches that works. Maybe I'm just one more gizmo away!

Thanks,
Greg

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posted Oct-16-2006 02:07 PM            

I have been following low-heart rate training for a while, now, but not quite as low as MAF suggested. I met Jesse a couple of years ago at a meeting for work; another work friend recently told me that there was a long thread on Cool Running about Maffetone, and when I logged on I saw that Jesse had started the topic! Fun.

Anyway, I thought I would quickly talk about my "progress" while running slowly for small weekly mileage. When I started running slowly, I hadn't run in quite a while. I started with 80% of my old Max Heart Rate of 192. I was averaging, without really warming up and cooling down, about 17m/m. After about two months, building up by adding one mile per week more, I was down to almost 12m/m, and running about 18 miles per week, then I had a horrible calf cramp. My calves are large, and the cramp was almost as long as my hand.

Well, I waited it out, saw the doctor, stretched, and rested. About two months later (I had to move, too) I got back to running, but then had horrible ITB problems. I'll get back to that later. I managed to run short distances and stretch at first, which nearly fixed the problem. I slowly went back down from 17m/m average--this time WITH warm-up and cool-down included in that--to almost 12m/m again. I'm increasing weekly mileage very slowly because I'm in no hurry to "get there" and I just don't want to get hurt. So I was up to only about 9 miles per week when my ITB was on and off keeping me from running more than 2 miles.

Then I found a great article a few weeks ago that said that it wasn't overpronation that causes ITB in most runners, but rather an imbalance in muscles, specifically weak outer thigh muscles. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10959926&dopt=Abstract)

Well, my ITB went away pretty much completely. It flaired up on Saturday, but that was because I wasn't concentrating on keeping my hips level, I was distracted and busy and not in my meditative running state.

Aaanyway, when I started reading this topic, I bought Maffetone's book about two weeks ago, and realized that 80% of MHR (154-155bpm) was too high for me. Maffetone suggests that I should be running at 144bpm. I slowed down over the last couple of days, and I am AGAIN over 15m/m! Ah, well, my heart rate is much lower, averaging around 143, but with short (<30 seconds) spikes up as high as 147 or 148 and sometimes hitting as low as 133.

So I'm up to about 12.5 MPW now and building at less than 10%. My three major pains are nearly gone: my right ankle, my right ITB, and my left hip joint have all hurt a lot in the past while running. Keeping my hips level has helped the last two; relaxing my tense ankles has helped the ankle. I've improved from 17m/m at the start of slow heart rate training down to 15m/m, and increased my mileage from about 7 MPW to 12.5 MPW.

In my mind, there are three key benefits of Maffetone training at low miles: first is that you are generally running more gently, so you're much less likely to get hurt in the beginning when your skeleton and tendons aren't developed. These two develop MUCH more slowly than muscles--it's very easy to improve aerobically and anaerobically to the point where you can really hurt yourself while running.

Second, while running so slowly, I have had time to dissect my form. For instance, my right foot turns in while I run, and I've been working on keeping that straight. That might be part of what was happening with my ankle, which probably affects my knee and hip, too.

My third and final thought on using Maffetone on low mileage is that running slowly is much more meditative, much more enjoyable, than going out and killing yourself running fast. There's less of a barrier for me to go out and run, now that it's not painful and exhausting. I often come back from my runs with more energy than when I left.

Now I just have to build my mileage...I hope to be able to run 12m/m someday. Heck, I'd really like to RUN instead of what really is a jog, but I've never been able to do that. I figure, you know, give it five or ten years and I'll get there.

Cheers, and thanks for the discussion!

-Jason

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posted Oct-16-2006 05:43 PM            

Just to show you what maf and your inspiration has done for me. Last year before Maf and getting injured during the race I finished in the bottom 7 percent of this same race.

This year after doing maf since January.
All runners
1867th place with 3713 finishers behind. About 33% of finishers ahead.


All male runners
1182nd place with 1271 finishers behind. About 48% of finishers ahead.


Age group
89th place with 140 finishers behind. About 38% of finishers ahead.

IP: Logged

posted Oct-16-2006 06:13 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by aharmer:
I've been doing Maffetone-style training for months in preparation for a 100K race which I completed yesterday. I thought about posting a race report and decided to take care of the important issue first....the data dump!

Any data freaks like me who want all the data email me and I'll send it over. Basically, I've been running at 125bpm on all runs for about 5 months. My max HR is about 176. My marathon PR is 3:09 with no HR data available. HM PR is 1:29:00 with avg HR of 159.

I wasn't quite sure what HR to try and hold for a 100K, but thought it would be close to my training rate of 125. Jesse thought I would be able to run a bit higher than that. Guess what...Jesse was right! Big surprise.

For the Garmin users out there...My Garmin 305 read 62.4 miles at the finish. Interestingly, it was 0.4 miles high at the 10K mark. The final 90K it was dead on. The numbers listed below indicate the first 62 laps on my Garmin. It claims to have a 10 hour battery life and that's almost exactly the time I had it powered up. It gave me the "low battery" message at about 8 hours, but never turned off.

Finish Time: 9:49:30
Avg. / Mile: 9:30
Avg HR: 138
Interesting Finding: First 26.2 miles, 4:06:42. Second 26.2 miles, 4:06:48.

Hopefully this will help compliment all of Jesse's great data for cross-referencing purposes.

---

Excellent! That must have gotten you in the top 5 or 10%,
didn't it? I know it was on the road, so perhaps wasn't as nasty
as 100ks can be, but still, that's really fantastic, especially
for your first. And I would guess you were even quite conservative.
I assume at some time you'll post a race report in the ultra forum.
Amazing about your first and second "marathons" in there!

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posted Oct-16-2006 06:21 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cashmason:
Another thanks to Jesse. I train at 126 maf. Today I ran my first half marathon. Previous best halfway point in marathon 2:42.

Jesse suggested I try running at 155-160 beats per minute.

End result. 2 hours 7 minutes.

Lap
(#) Time
(m:s) Distance
(mi ) M Spd
(mph) HR
(bpm) Energy
(Cal)
Avg Max
1 9:59 1.00 6.9 138 157 162 ( shoulder to shoulder runners)
2 8:29 1.00 7.8 154 163 139
3 9:19 1.00 7.6 159 166 165
4 9:16 1.00 7.6 161 174 148
5 9:22 1.00 7.8 164 170 161
6 9:29 1.00 6.7 161 167 159
7 9:47 1.00 6.5 163 167 162
8 9:44 1.00 6.5 163 168 163
9 9:46 1.00 6.9 165 169 157
10 9:32 1.00 6.7 166 174 157
11 9:49 1.00 6.9 166 173 197
12 10:06 1.00 7.2 167 175 159
13 10:40 1.00 8.5 168 179 177
14 2:32 0.32 8.5 170 188 47

Longest long run 10 and half miles this training cycle. Perhaps thats why I fell apart after mile 11. Last couple miles flat to slightly downhill

---

That's just fantastic, Cash! It's pretty incredible how much your
times have improved.

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posted Oct-16-2006 06:27 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by purfledspruce:
MAF at low mileage:
...

Now I just have to build my mileage...I hope to be able to run 12m/m someday. Heck, I'd really like to RUN instead of what really is a jog, but I've never been able to do that. I figure, you know, give it five or ten years and I'll get there.

Cheers, and thanks for the discussion!

-Jason

---

Hey Jason! You've certainly hit the nail on the head. I don't think
you need 5 or 10 years, but it wouldn't hurt to try cover a good 20-25
miles per week if you can squeeze it in! If you can, I don't think it will
be much more than 8 weeks or so before you crack that barrier. But
we are all an experiment of one as has been clear around here. Most
of the principles seem to work for most people, however.

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posted Oct-16-2006 06:31 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cashmason:

This year after doing maf since January.
All runners
1867th place with 3713 finishers behind. About 33% of finishers ahead.

All male runners
1182nd place with 1271 finishers behind. About 48% of finishers ahead.

Age group
89th place with 140 finishers behind. About 38% of finishers ahead.

---

Excellent - you just can't say enough about those results. I hope
you're recovering well!

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posted Oct-16-2006 06:39 PM            

Something that Maf did for me was in yesterdays race I hit the 10k mat with average pace of 9:44 per mile. End of race average 9:46 per mile. Yes I race about 40 beats above maf for a half marathon and go about 2 :45 per mile faster.

Previously I could keep a good pace at the start but really fell apart the last 1/3 of the race.

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posted Oct-16-2006 07:12 PM               

I think you can do well on a program like that as long as you put in some crosstraining on the days you don't run. I used to run my best when running 3-4 days per week and biking the same. I always made the run days big run days. Good luck.

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posted Oct-16-2006 07:23 PM               

I started taking it easy just a few days ago. For example today I ran 6 miles in 1:03 or a 10:30 pace and finished with a HR of about 145. That seems below my MAF HR yet it still didn't seem easy - I usually will run my 6mi in 54-56 min. I know that folks here that are a lot more talented than I am went as slow as 12:00/miles at the beginning, so 10:30/mile is probably still too fast...yet my HR doesn't show it. I feel like by deliberately slowing down, maybe I'm wasting a lot of energy due to sloppy form. Any opinions? Below what HR should I run at?

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landofvanilla.motionbased.com

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posted Oct-17-2006 11:20 AM            

quote:

---

Hey Jason! You've certainly hit the nail on the head. I don't think
you need 5 or 10 years, but it wouldn't hurt to try cover a good 20-25
miles per week if you can squeeze it in! If you can, I don't think it will
be much more than 8 weeks or so before you crack that barrier. But
we are all an experiment of one as has been clear around here.

---

Jesse,

I'm increasing my mileage very slowly in the hope that I won't get hurt. My current plan is to go from about 3 hours of training a week to about 5 hours a week over the next 10 weeks. At 5 hours a week, even if I'm only running 4 miles an hour, that will end up being 20 miles. So, about the end of December I hope to be running a minimum of 20 miles a week. I hope to increase miles after that by increasing speed and running the 5 hours a week. Dare I hope that I could eventually run more than 30 miles in those 5 hours? I still consider running at 10m/m a basic fitness thing that I've only been able to do maybe at three times in my life: high school gym, during a time when I worked cutting trail through a forest every day, and when I was working out almost every day in 2003.

What are people's experience in increasing miles more quickly than 10% per week? I am going slowly because I still feel some stress or soreness at times, my i-t band was tight on saturday and I got some knee pain about 3 miles into a 3.6 mile run. It was nearly gone the next day, and I'll try again today...but halfway through that 3.6 mile run I felt so good that I almost ran a 5 mile loop...good thing I didn't, that time...

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posted Oct-17-2006 11:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by purfledspruce:

What are people's experience in increasing miles more quickly than 10% per week? I am going slowly because I still feel some stress or soreness at times, my i-t band was tight on saturday and I got some knee pain about 3 miles into a 3.6 mile run. It was nearly gone the next day, and I'll try again today...but halfway through that 3.6 mile run I felt so good that I almost ran a 5 mile loop...good thing I didn't, that time...

---

You're right to be careful increasing mileage especially if you're having any aches and pains. The aerobic system develops much faster than tendons, ligaments, etc. In July 2004, I thought I'd discovered the secret to running -- go real slow and pile on the miles. I went from zero to 30+ mpw by October with lots of aches and pains (like ITB) piling up until I pulled my hamstring so badly I couldn't run at all.

I started over at 10 mpw in January 2005 and have been cautious increasing mileage, using schedules (like Bob Glover's) for building base mileage. 10% is a good rule, but remember that even that is unsustainable over the long term. 10% a week, grows, well, exponentially. The first plan I used (from Bob Glover's book) went from 10mpw to 20 mpw in 10 weeks so your plan to go from 3 to 5 hours/week in the 10 weeks looks sound.

Greg

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posted Oct-17-2006 12:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aharmer:
I've been doing Maffetone-style training for months in preparation for a 100K race which I completed yesterday. I thought about posting a race report and decided to take care of the important issue first....the data dump!

Any data freaks like me who want all the data email me and I'll send it over. Basically, I've been running at 125bpm on all runs for about 5 months. My max HR is about 176. My marathon PR is 3:09 with no HR data available. HM PR is 1:29:00 with avg HR of 159.

I wasn't quite sure what HR to try and hold for a 100K, but thought it would be close to my training rate of 125. Jesse thought I would be able to run a bit higher than that. Guess what...Jesse was right! Big surprise.

For the Garmin users out there...My Garmin 305 read 62.4 miles at the finish. Interestingly, it was 0.4 miles high at the 10K mark. The final 90K it was dead on. The numbers listed below indicate the first 62 laps on my Garmin. It claims to have a 10 hour battery life and that's almost exactly the time I had it powered up. It gave me the "low battery" message at about 8 hours, but never turned off.

Finish Time: 9:49:30
Avg. / Mile: 9:30
Avg HR: 138
Interesting Finding: First 26.2 miles, 4:06:42. Second 26.2 miles, 4:06:48.

Hopefully this will help compliment all of Jesse's great data for cross-referencing purposes.

---

aharmer,

Okay, Okay, Okay, you've finally convinced me I need to use a lower MAF number. I'm looking at your numbers along with jjwaverly42 and it's abundantly clear I'm no where near your abilities.

I can run about 9:00 to 9:15 m/m at 144 HR (I'm 36). If I slow down to 134 HR I run about 10:00 m/m. I got my HR up to 178 max in a max HR test. This is low for my age.

I finally purchased the Maffetone book and his chart indicates that if you can run 9:00 m/m MAF than you should be able to run a 21:45 5k. My best 5k time is 23:23 which lines up almost exactly with the 10:00 m/m MAF number. After the Chicago marathon I will dedicate my checked ego to running slow slow slow and slower at 134 and lower. Any additional advice is welcome.

2 questions:

1) I don't see too many women posting in this thread. Have you experts actually witnessed success with this method with women?

2) The maffetone book suggests to avoid orthodics and stability shoes- I have both. I have not had any injuries in a while so I'm afraid of any change. Has anyone had experience teaching your feet to run with these crutches?

Thank you all for advice. This is an outstanding thread!

Chris

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posted Oct-17-2006 03:40 PM            

see link below for MAF results:
http://mysite.verizon.net/chuckp88/marathon_training.htm

just started adding in one day of 800 repeats (5 or 6) at 7:30-8:00 min pace within the past 2 weeks.

Race results definitely indicate an improvement. Trying to peak for MCM in 2 weeks.

Just ran the Balt. HALF last weekend, should I not test that soon after a race? 3 days out. Is the slower test an indication of the speed work? I feel good, strong, etc.....

thoughts?

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posted Oct-17-2006 05:33 PM               

Good luck in Chicago! I'm not sure what kind of success women have had...in fact I've never considered whether most of these people are men or women.

You and I are the same age with the same max HR. I train at 125. For those of us with max HR's below average, Maffetone's formula puts us at too high a rate. I used a couple different methods to arrive at 125. If you've seen Hadd's articles he specifically discusses training HR's for lower than average max's. I also noticed that many Maff'ers with regular max HR's were running at about 70% of their max. Both of these methods placed me at 125 so that's what I went with.

Although it's frustrating to slow down so much, the slower you are forced to move at 70% of your max HR the more you need aerobic conditioning.

Regardless of the HR you choose, the key is to start with a sustained period of running below that number. Commit several months if possible to every run being at or under 125 (or whatever number you choose). No speed work, no tempo runs, etc. Keep posting with results and questions, we'll all pitch in to try and make it as successful as possible. Good luck!

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posted Oct-17-2006 06:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckp88:

see link below for MAF results:
http://mysite.verizon.net/chuckp88/marathon_training.htm

Just ran the Balt. HALF last weekend, should I not test that soon after a race? 3 days out. Is the slower test an indication of the speed work? I feel good, strong, etc.....

thoughts?

---

3 days after a half, you'll probably be tired and it wll affect a MAF test. I do the same course during the week and notice that my pace/hr is worse on Mondays after a long run. One thing that has me perplexed is your race times and low heart rates (compared to MAF pace/hr). Were you racing those? What's your age? Do you know your max hr?

Greg

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posted Oct-17-2006 06:22 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by landofvanilla:
Hey, late joiner here! I have an HRM coming tomorrow and I'm ready to MAF it up, but I need some guidance. I'm 22, and I don't see any applicable subtractions to my MAF HR, so it leaves me at 158 which is pretty high. My max HR is 192 and resting HR is 52.

I started taking it easy just a few days ago. For example today I ran 6 miles in 1:03 or a 10:30 pace and finished with a HR of about 145. That seems below my MAF HR yet it still didn't seem easy - I usually will run my 6mi in 54-56 min. I know that folks here that are a lot more talented than I am went as slow as 12:00/miles at the beginning, so 10:30/mile is probably still too fast...yet my HR doesn't show it. I feel like by deliberately slowing down, maybe I'm wasting a lot of energy due to sloppy form. Any opinions? Below what HR should I run at?

---

While you're not in the category of "really low max heart rate," you're
generally low, and low enough to where I think you should use
Hadd's guidelines, and even go lower than that. My recommendation
would be to use 145 as a peak, and try to keep all below 140 for
the most part. I think in the heat or on hills, you'll probably have
initial difficulty keeping below that. One thing about ages below
25 or above 55 - a lot of "personalization" and possibly trial and
error would be involved.

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posted Oct-17-2006 06:29 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris345:

1) I don't see too many women posting in this thread. Have you experts actually witnessed success with this method with women?

2) The maffetone book suggests to avoid orthodics and stability shoes- I have both. I have not had any injuries in a while so I'm afraid of any change. Has anyone had experience teaching your feet to run with these crutches?

---

1. There have been a number of women very successful with this
approach, even who have posted here. There may have been a
higher level of frustration with some women just because, generally
speaking, women with poor aerobic conditioning might be on the
average slower than men with poor aerobic conditioning and given
that there seems to be a general concern about going any slower than
certain absolute paces, such as 8, 9, 10 minute miles, or whatever,
some women will have been less likely to stick with it.

2. On the one hand, I wouldn't pay attention to too much of Maffetone's
recommendations on shoes in general, but I will say that there does
seem to be a propensity for many to recommend orthotics, specialized
shoes, or other "crutches" to make up for what amount to be simple
training problems. As far as stability shoes go, I really don't see what
the big deal is.

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posted Oct-17-2006 06:33 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by chuckp88:
OK, did another MAF test today and am a little perplexed...my pace slowed a little this time???

see link below for MAF results:
http://mysite.verizon.net/chuckp88/marathon_training.htm

just started adding in one day of 800 repeats (5 or 6) at 7:30-8:00 min pace within the past 2 weeks.

Race results definitely indicate an improvement. Trying to peak for MCM in 2 weeks.

Just ran the Balt. HALF last weekend, should I not test that soon after a race? 3 days out. Is the slower test an indication of the speed work? I feel good, strong, etc.....

thoughts?

---

Once you start mixing in races, intervals, and so forth, your MAF
performance will likely decline (although your race results will
likely improve, at least for a while). That's natural. If you go back
to strict MAF, you will shortly revert back to where you were. If you
race a bunch, you will eventually whittle away your endurance. That's
ok - it's what's supposed to happen. Sometimes after marathons,
I will actually improve some, perhaps because it's mostly aerobic,
but most races slowly chisel away at my low HR performance.

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posted Oct-17-2006 08:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aharmer:
Chris,

Good luck in Chicago! I'm not sure what kind of success women have had...in fact I've never considered whether most of these people are men or women.

You and I are the same age with the same max HR. I train at 125. For those of us with max HR's below average, Maffetone's formula puts us at too high a rate. I used a couple different methods to arrive at 125. If you've seen Hadd's articles he specifically discusses training HR's for lower than average max's. I also noticed that many Maff'ers with regular max HR's were running at about 70% of their max. Both of these methods placed me at 125 so that's what I went with.

Although it's frustrating to slow down so much, the slower you are forced to move at 70% of your max HR the more you need aerobic conditioning.

Regardless of the HR you choose, the key is to start with a sustained period of running below that number. Commit several months if possible to every run being at or under 125 (or whatever number you choose). No speed work, no tempo runs, etc. Keep posting with results and questions, we'll all pitch in to try and make it as successful as possible. Good luck!

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Wow 125 is low. I came up with 134 because it seamed to line up with the maf chart and 5k ability. With the Hadd article I found for a max HR of 183 he says you should use 135. I suspect that the max test I did is a bit low because I was already in an overworked state that day. Hypothedically if my heart rate is actually 180 or so his method would have me running at 132. What's another couple of beats... Maybe I'll run a turkey trot just to see if I can get my max any higher. (And then I swear that'll be my last anarobic fix!!)

That being said, you're probably right and I'm still in denial and I'll end up experimenting with the 125-135 range and you can say I told you so later ;-). I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the help!

Chris

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