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Low HR training/base-building ala Maffetone/Mark Allen


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Author Topic:   Low HR training/base-building ala Maffetone/Mark Allen
aharmer
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posted Sep-18-2006 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aharmer   Click Here to Email aharmer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
novarobin,

You may already know this, but you'll want to be very specific with your requests during the test. Many testers will not test to your VO2Max. They will only take you to your anaerobic threshold level. If you only want to know your AT, that's fine. However, if you want to know your max, you need to push further. Another benefit is that there are parameters for race paces based on your VO2max. If you only know your AT, these are obsolete.

After the test, ask them for the comprehensive data sheets, not just the cover sheet that shows you your AT. They should be able to print out a log that shows data about every 15 seconds throughout the test. This will have your VO2, corresponding heart rate, and respiratory quotient which is important as well in determining your mixture of fat vs. carbs being burned.

Best of luck, look forward to hearing the results!

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heavyweight
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posted Sep-18-2006 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for heavyweight   Click Here to Email heavyweight     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a question, I just read infomation on the ehealthy news you can use by docter marcola. I think that is his name. Anyway he was saying that when you run or walk that you are not doing true cardio exercise (i think that is what he was saying) and that if you really want a good workout to go to the track, as an example, and walk the track and do some running, do some weight lifting afterwards or push ups and do all this in about 20 minutes.

It sounded to me like interval training. I would think if you are exercising enough to get your heart rate up above resting rate you are doing cardio, especially if you don't go so fast you go out of oxygen.

So what is he talking about?

thanks in advance.

RR

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leitnerj
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posted Sep-18-2006 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kcy1998:
In my previous Half Marathon I believe that after reading of all the success I had a mind set that the my MAFing had made it EASY to achieve my goal time. In this 5K I had a different mind set that it will be hard but my MAFing will allow me to run through the pain. Some how I had interpeted all of the success that has been posted to this board as MAFing made the desired times EASY. In my experience MAFing makes he desired times more achieveable. MAFing does not gurantee there will not be any pain. If I can help someone avoid the trap that I fell into then fantastic.
kcy


It's a mixed bag, sort of a transfer of pain from one medium to
the next. You'll find you have to push a lot harder than you did
before you were MAFfing. But you eliminate the physical limit
that was there and you convert it to a mental limit. Once you
get enough races in, you'll start to acquire a taste for what to
do and you'll get used to the pain. Congrats on the new PR.

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leitnerj
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posted Sep-18-2006 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by novarobin:

My question is what should my training schedule be during the basebuilding phase? How long should my runs be? How many times a week?

I also have a VO2 max test scheduled for tomorrow.


Unfortunately, I can't really give you a training schedule, but I can
put it this way - do as many miles as your body and schedule can
tolerate. Include long runs of 20 miles as often as you can tolerate.
Run as many days a week as you can, ideally 6. These are just
my personal recommendations. Incorporate cross-training such
as biking and swimming at MAF as well. The more volume you can
fit in without your body screaming back, the merrier.

And, as Adam said, make sure they provide you a lot of data at
your vo2max test or, in my opinion, it's not worth it. Ask questions:

1. Will the test go to completion, beyond the vo2 maximum point,
and on to maximum heart rate?

2. Will respiratory quotient go well beyond 1?

3. Will you provide for each data point the value for heart rate and
respiratory quotient?

In my mind, these are the most important questions (hopefully
the answers are all "yes") if you are going to use the test as a
baseline for MAF training.

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leitnerj
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posted Sep-18-2006 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by heavyweight:
I have a question, I just read infomation on the ehealthy news you can use by docter marcola. I think that is his name. Anyway he was saying that when you run or walk that you are not doing true cardio exercise (i think that is what he was saying) and that if you really want a good workout to go to the track, as an example, and walk the track and do some running, do some weight lifting afterwards or push ups and do all this in about 20 minutes.

It sounded to me like interval training. I would think if you are exercising enough to get your heart rate up above resting rate you are doing cardio, especially if you don't go so fast you go out of oxygen.

RR


Sorry, I dunno!

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streeetch
Member
posted Sep-18-2006 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for streeetch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leitnerj:
That's great, Bev, I hope whatevery you take from this benefits
you in the long run. I used to say that the big loss in pace late
in runs was just due to early stages of getting used to the distance
and the aerobic system being in development. However, I think
it is most likely due to dehydration. As you dehydrate, you will
experience a gradual drift in heart rate, but there seems to be a
point at which the loss in fluids accumulates to a point of no
return and you can no longer control your heart rate. Drinking
something quickly won't help much as it's too late. If you weigh
yourself before and after, you may be able to isolate whether
that's the problem and you may be able to identify a magic
number of some kind. When I hit about 6 lbs fluid loss, that's
it, my heart rate goes out of control. That's a bit over 3% body
weight.


After reading this on Saturday I decided to carry a water bottle on my Sunday run. The run ended up being one of my most successful MAFF runs to date. My MAFF # is 144. This was my longest run to date in 3 months of MAFFing. I wasn't able to weigh myself before or after.

Mile splits with average heart rates.
9:27 139
9:42 138
10:13 137
10:08 139
9:56 142
9:28 141
10:34 139 (bottle exchange at car)
9:43 140
9:53 144
9:39 146

I didn't include the warmup and cooldown, .75 mile each.

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leitnerj
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posted Sep-19-2006 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by streeetch:
After reading this on Saturday I decided to carry a water bottle on my Sunday run. The run ended up being one of my most successful MAFF runs to date. My MAFF # is 144. This was my longest run to date in 3 months of MAFFing. I wasn't able to weigh myself before or after.


That's great - there's nothing like the point when you can make
some subtle adjustments and see major benefits. Looks like
you were born with 2 weeks of me - happy b'day to you as well,
whichever that day may be!

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kcy1998
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posted Sep-19-2006 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcy1998     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by verses:
Dear GForce and KCY,

I noted something that hadn't been addressed with respect to the preceding discussion. You stated that the vast, vast majority of training has been done inside on a treadmill since beginning MAF, apart from isolated runs every now and then outside. I take it the room in which the treadmill is situated is cooled, or atleast possesses a fan / is cooler than ambient outdoor temperature? Is it possible that formerly (prior to beginning target HR training) your runs were done outside, and thus you were considerably better acclimatized to the heat, whereas now, having trained almost entirely on a treadmill in a controlled environment, you have lost that former heat acclimatization and thus had difficulty when exposed to the HM conditions despite considerably better aerobic fitness as would be indicated by your considerable drop in pace at target HR? You stated you felt tired and / or fatigued during the HM, which would be in line with this conjecture, as well as the weight loss over the half. Furthermore, one would expect that your race pace for a given heart rate would be found at a greater differential from your MAF test pace, yet they seem to be a bit closer together than what others training in their racing environment have reported -- I imagine this is indicative of conditions that your body is not presently used to? Please correct me if I miss the mark on the vast majority of your training since starting target HR training being on a treadmill whereas afore it was most likely out in the environment in which you were racing, humidity, temperature and sun wise

Best Wishes,
Sach



Sach,
You are probably onto something. The TM is in a room that has lots of AC. The climate is probably close to ideal. Your idea of having to get acclimated to the outside elements. My reason for the TM is a combination. The TM is a great way to make sure that my pace is constant. The summers in the mid atlantic are HOT and HUMID. In the gym the elements are much more conducive to running. Finally my goal marathon is Chicago. Pancake flat and all that I have is rolling hills where I live. You made a good observation.
kcy

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kcy1998
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posted Sep-19-2006 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcy1998     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leitnerj:
It's a mixed bag, sort of a transfer of pain from one medium to
the next. You'll find you have to push a lot harder than you did
before you were MAFfing. But you eliminate the physical limit
that was there and you convert it to a mental limit. Once you
get enough races in, you'll start to acquire a taste for what to
do and you'll get used to the pain. Congrats on the new PR.




Jesse,
Thanks for the input. A transfer of the pain from physical to mental. It makes sense to me. Your idea of learning how to handle the transfer is intersting. Hopefully I can wind up with the same results as Jimmy and yourself.
kcy

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kcy1998
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posted Sep-19-2006 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcy1998     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
Nice run! Congratulations.
I think your legs just needed some stimulus, and now you can reap some fo the benefits of a good base.

Keep going

--Jimmy

Current MAF Training
My Running World

MAF training source:
Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone



Jimy,
Thanks for the encouragement. It will be interesting to see how things go at Chicago. I am looking forward to it.
kcy

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streeetch
Member
posted Sep-20-2006 09:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for streeetch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leitnerj:
That's great - there's nothing like the point when you can make
some subtle adjustments and see major benefits. Looks like
you were born with 2 weeks of me - happy b'day to you as well,
whichever that day may be!




Thank you, actually we are less then a week apart. Today my my maf number was reduced by 1. My mind hates the idea but my knees are all for it.

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Stealth26
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posted Sep-21-2006 05:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stealth26   Click Here to Email Stealth26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
leitnerj and others,
I just started low HR training. I would like to get some feed back on these #s. I have only been running since Feb 06
I smoked until Jan 01/06(17+ years)... With little exercise...I weighed 230ish in January and am down to 193. I will be 36 years old... I worked up from C25k program to a HM 9/10/06 with time of 2 hrs 15 min 56 sec... Starting HR in high 160's HR peaked around 178 to 180's until the last mile HR of 192. I found that I really need to work on a solid base... Any help or input would be great. I plan on doing this traning at least until March 07, I figure this should give me a good base to build on.

First MAF test on new treadmill.
Warm-up as follows:
1.5 min @ 3 mph HR/90/bpm
.5 min @ 3.1mph HR/100bpm
1 min @ 3.3 mph HR 102bpm
1 min @ 3.5 mph HR 107bpm
1 min @ 3.7 mph HR 123bpm
1 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
2 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
3 min @ 3.9mph HR 129bpm
.68 miles after warm-up...11 min warmup total.
MAF test results

Mile #1...15:45/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #2...15:09/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #3...15:21/HR134.....@3.9mph
Mile #4...15:24/HR135.....@3.9mph
Mile #5...15:51/HR135.....@3.9mph to 3.6mph
Mile 5..3/4 in heart rate spiked to 145 became stable again at 134bpm at 3.6
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**DTFB**

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**DTFB**

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Stealth26
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posted Sep-21-2006 05:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stealth26   Click Here to Email Stealth26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
leitnerj and others,
I have read most of your posts and you guys are machines... I hope I can improve some from this type of training.

I just started low HR training. I would like to get some feed back on these #s. I have only been running since Feb 06
I smoked until Jan 01/06(17+ years)... With little exercise...I weighed 230ish in January and am down to 193. I will be 36 years old... I worked up from C25k program to a HM 9/10/06 with time of 2 hrs 15 min 56 sec... Starting HR in high 160's HR peaked around 178 to 180's until the last mile HR of 192. I found that I really need to work on a solid base... Any help or input would be great. I plan on doing this traning at least until March 07, I figure this should give me a good base to build on.

First MAF test on new treadmill.
Warm-up as follows:
1.5 min @ 3 mph HR/90/bpm
.5 min @ 3.1mph HR/100bpm
1 min @ 3.3 mph HR 102bpm
1 min @ 3.5 mph HR 107bpm
1 min @ 3.7 mph HR 123bpm
1 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
2 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
3 min @ 3.9mph HR 129bpm
.68 miles after warm-up...11 min warmup total.
MAF test results

Mile #1...15:45/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #2...15:09/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #3...15:21/HR134.....@3.9mph
Mile #4...15:24/HR135.....@3.9mph
Mile #5...15:51/HR135.....@3.9mph to 3.6mph
Mile 5..3/4 in heart rate spiked to 145 became stable again at 134bpm at 3.6
------------------
**DTFB**

[This message has been edited by Stealth26 (edited Sep-21-2006).]

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leitnerj
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posted Sep-21-2006 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stealth26:

MAF test results

Mile #1...15:45/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #2...15:09/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #3...15:21/HR134.....@3.9mph
Mile #4...15:24/HR135.....@3.9mph
Mile #5...15:51/HR135.....@3.9mph to 3.6mph
Mile 5..3/4 in heart rate spiked to 145 became stable again at 134bpm at 3.6

ok, looks fine, you've now set your baseline! keep at it exclusively
and see what it looks like in three weeks.

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Cashmason
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posted Sep-22-2006 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cashmason     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stealth, that heart rate spiking after a few miles and your having to slow down to get back to your Maf heart rate is normal. And the further you go, the more often you have to slow down to keep in the Maf zone.

It's part of cardiac drift, which is when you sweat you lose some of the water in your blood, so the blood becomes slightly thicker, so your heart has to beat a few beats faster to keep the oxygen flowing to your muscles.

As you get more fit, you will not have to slow down as often, and you will be running faster than you do now at the same heart rate.

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jjwaverly42
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posted Sep-22-2006 07:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jjwaverly42   Click Here to Email jjwaverly42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stealth26:
leitnerj and others,
I have read most of your posts and you guys are machines... I hope I can improve some from this type of training.

I just started low HR training. I would like to get some feed back on these #s. I have only been running since Feb 06
I smoked until Jan 01/06(17+ years)... With little exercise...I weighed 230ish in January and am down to 193. I will be 36 years old... I worked up from C25k program to a HM 9/10/06 with time of 2 hrs 15 min 56 sec... Starting HR in high 160's HR peaked around 178 to 180's until the last mile HR of 192. I found that I really need to work on a solid base... Any help or input would be great. I plan on doing this traning at least until March 07, I figure this should give me a good base to build on.

First MAF test on new treadmill.
Warm-up as follows:
1.5 min @ 3 mph HR/90/bpm
.5 min @ 3.1mph HR/100bpm
1 min @ 3.3 mph HR 102bpm
1 min @ 3.5 mph HR 107bpm
1 min @ 3.7 mph HR 123bpm
1 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
2 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
3 min @ 3.9mph HR 129bpm
.68 miles after warm-up...11 min warmup total.
MAF test results

Mile #1...15:45/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #2...15:09/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #3...15:21/HR134.....@3.9mph
Mile #4...15:24/HR135.....@3.9mph
Mile #5...15:51/HR135.....@3.9mph to 3.6mph
Mile 5..3/4 in heart rate spiked to 145 became stable again at 134bpm at 3.6


First, congratulations on quitting your nicotine delivery systems. Losing that weight at the same time is no small feat. It shows a force of will, focus, and commitment that will serve you well as a runner. I was once 230 elbees myself, and know the ramifications of carrying around so much stored-energy around the waist. Also, completing a half marathon in 2:15 within the first 9 months of running is awesome. Bravo!

A nice 6-month base training below 140 will do you good. Your HR's in the HM were normal, and will be a good source of data for training. You probably have a max HR of near 198-200 if you were seeing 192. Though you don't have to worry abour MHR in MAF training. But if you were concerned, you are probably working somewhere around 70% MHR and below, which coincides with lots of other low-HR aerobic base training plans. Fall is a good time to start as the cooler weather will keep the HR drift to a minimum. I started a base period 7 weeks ago, and the heat has been murder (well, maybe more like the way the nuns used to whack me).

Starting off in the 15:00's is fine and will change pretty quickly, especially if you work at building up your miles a bit. Starting in the 15's also shows you that you need a lot of work aerobically. Perfect program for a beginner. It will strengthen your body and develope your aerobic system at your body's pace. Just keep at those HR"s and soon you'll be running 14:00, then 13:00, and somehow it won't feel like you're going any faster, but you are. I still marvel at that effect. It takes the decision out of your hands as when to get faster in training, you just do.

A few tips:

--do your MAF test the same way every time.

--keep under your MAF, only getting to it the last mile, or avoid it all together, maybe using MAF -5 as a ceiling. Then you can always drift up on a bad HR day.

--find a HR at which to start you runs where you can keep an even pace for as long as possible. e.g. get to 118 bpm by mile 2-3 on every 10 mile run, and if you hold that pace, you will eventually peak out at your ceiling.

--even all these miles can be considered recovery pace in a way, still use a hard/easy approch. In MAF that would be high mileage on day, low the next. That's a relative thing. That could mean 10 miles one day, followed by 3 on the next for some, or 20 miles followed by 15 for another. Depends where you are.

--stay hydrated.

--when every runner passes you out there on the trail or road, listen to their breathing. Then listen to yours. 9 out of 10 runners that pass me on the bike trail where I run are breathing pretty hard, and my guess is that very few of them are doing tempo runs. Some are talking with each other, and I can hear they can't talk comfortably (and probably think they are at conversational pace). Know that you are on the righteous path to Endurango (the mystical land of endurance). Also, don't let it bother you that they are all running faster. That's temporary, and soon you will be passing some of them.

--at some point after a good base period, get out there and race, or do a tempo run. Gotta keep it fresh!

Have fun! Keep pushing your limits!

--Jimmy


Current Marathon Training
My Running World

MAF training source:
Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone

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Mobius
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posted Sep-22-2006 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mobius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A question for you MAFers...

I've been MAFing since about March and have more than happy with my improvements. (33, male). I'm currently running about 25 miles a week, 5x a week with runs from 4-10 miles (I mix it up).

I run almost exclusively in the afternoons after work. 5-6pm time frame. My HR is usually 125-130 for the first mile, 130-140 for miles 2-5, then 140-145 for anything above. I usually allow myself to pick up the pace the last few miles of a run (but stay below my MAF ceiling of 147).

My long runs are in the morning. My HR is consistently MUCH higher. It's not uncommon for my HR to be 135 at the end of the first mile, even though I go up to a minute slower than my afternoon runs, and the temps are usually cooler. It's very frustrating.

I've tried getting up 3-4 hours earlier. Eating more. Eating less. Drinking more/less. Hot shower. Cold shower... Via experimentation (I'm a physics major) my HR doesn't seem to drop until 10-11am, just as the day starts to really heat up.

Obviously this is very unhelpful for races!

Any ideas? Am I a unique outlier here?

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jjwaverly42
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posted Sep-22-2006 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jjwaverly42   Click Here to Email jjwaverly42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mobius:
A question for you MAFers...

I've been MAFing since about March and have more than happy with my improvements. (33, male). I'm currently running about 25 miles a week, 5x a week with runs from 4-10 miles (I mix it up).

I run almost exclusively in the afternoons after work. 5-6pm time frame. My HR is usually 125-130 for the first mile, 130-140 for miles 2-5, then 140-145 for anything above. I usually allow myself to pick up the pace the last few miles of a run (but stay below my MAF ceiling of 147).

My long runs are in the morning. My HR is consistently MUCH higher. It's not uncommon for my HR to be 135 at the end of the first mile, even though I go up to a minute slower than my afternoon runs, and the temps are usually cooler. It's very frustrating.

I've tried getting up 3-4 hours earlier. Eating more. Eating less. Drinking more/less. Hot shower. Cold shower... Via experimentation (I'm a physics major) my HR doesn't seem to drop until 10-11am, just as the day starts to really heat up.

Obviously this is very unhelpful for races!

Any ideas? Am I a unique outlier here?


Interesting.

Do you eat before you run in the AM? After work?
If so, how close?

Lots of hanky panky before the morning run? If so, tell us all about it. :> )

--Jimmy

Current Marathon Training
My Running World

MAF training source:
Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone

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Mobius
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posted Sep-22-2006 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mobius     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The night before I usually have a fairly well-rounded dinner: carbs, protein, veggies. Maybe a bowl of cereal for dessert. don't generally count calories, but I haven't changed weight in forever, so I figure I'm not too far off. (avg weight: 160, and has been for about 2 years, was in the mid 150's before that).

I usually get up Sunday at 6am, take a hot shower, drink some water (16-24 oz), have a banana and a bagel or Clif bar. I head out the door for the long run around 9 (2-3 hours after I've eaten).

If I try to run earlier than 2-3 hours, it's even worse. I can't bring myself to wake up at 3am, just to have "body, get it together time!" before I run at 9am.

I've just come to expect my morning running HR to be higher. My resting HR in the am has been about 48bpm, at night around 58bpm (go figure). My measure HR max (at the end of hilly 5k) is around 195-200bpm.

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leitnerj
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posted Sep-22-2006 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mobius:

Obviously this is very unhelpful for races!

Any ideas? Am I a unique outlier here?


That's a tough one! Biorhythms? The only other checkpoint
I can suggest is to take note of the dew point at the time of
each run. That's the one thing that can be a major factor
that may actually go down from morning until the afternoon.

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jjwaverly42
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posted Sep-22-2006 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jjwaverly42   Click Here to Email jjwaverly42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mobius:
The night before I usually have a fairly well-rounded dinner: carbs, protein, veggies. Maybe a bowl of cereal for dessert. don't generally count calories, but I haven't changed weight in forever, so I figure I'm not too far off. (avg weight: 160, and has been for about 2 years, was in the mid 150's before that).

I usually get up Sunday at 6am, take a hot shower, drink some water (16-24 oz), have a banana and a bagel or Clif bar. I head out the door for the long run around 9 (2-3 hours after I've eaten).

If I try to run earlier than 2-3 hours, it's even worse. I can't bring myself to wake up at 3am, just to have "body, get it together time!" before I run at 9am.

I've just come to expect my morning running HR to be higher. My resting HR in the am has been about 48bpm, at night around 58bpm (go figure). My measure HR max (at the end of hilly 5k) is around 195-200bpm.


Try getting up a little later and not eating at all. PIf nothig changes, run slower.


Also, do you run the day before, if so, what time? You might not be recovered enough.

--Jimmy

Current Marathon Training
My Running World

MAF training source:
Training for Endurance by Phil Maffetone

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Stealth26
Cool Runner
posted Sep-22-2006 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stealth26   Click Here to Email Stealth26     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
leitnerj, Cashmason, jjwaverly42
Thanks for the info, I will keep you all posted.

jjwaverly42,
The first 35 pounds seemd to come off easier than the last 13 I'm working on... My target weight right now is 180, I,ve started a calorie log and seem to be back on track after a 6 week plateau.

Looks like it could be a long slooooow fall & winter
Thanks again

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**DTFB**

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gregw
Cool Runner
posted Sep-22-2006 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gregw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was 51 deg this morning and I shattered my MAF record on my usual 8.3 mile route. Here are some runs to show the affect of temps. (I only did the 89 deg afternoon run once -- usually I ran before sun up with paces in the mid to high 10s)

6/01, 89F, 55F dew pt, 13:17 min/mi, 138 bpm avg
9/18, 61F, 56F dew pt, 10:01 min/mi, 139 bpm avg
9/22, 51F, 49F dew pt, 9:29 min/mi, 141 bpm avg

Today I noticed that my quads and hamstrings are sore like in the old pre-low heart rate days. I'll mix in some "even easier" days until I adjust, but I guess this is something maffers should be aware of. Some summer treadmill running is probably a good idea just to go faster occasionally and keep your leg strength up.

If the weather's anything like today I'm pretty optimistic about setting a good time at the Army 10 miler in 2 weeks but I'm dismayed by the fact they've banned HRMs for "security." I'm sure I'll be fine but I really think the HRM helped me push myself at the annapolis 10-miler. This will be my first and last Army 10 miler. I like the club races better anyway.

Greg

[This message has been edited by gregw (edited Sep-22-2006).]

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leitnerj
Cool Runner
posted Sep-22-2006 08:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gregw:
It was 51 deg this morning and I shattered my MAF record on my usual 8.3 mile route. Here are some runs to show the affect of temps. (I only did the 89 deg afternoon run once -- usually I ran before sun up with paces in the mid to high 10s)

6/01, 89F, 55F dew pt, 13:17 min/mi, 138 bpm avg
9/18, 61F, 56F dew pt, 10:01 min/mi, 139 bpm avg
9/22, 51F, 49F dew pt, 9:29 min/mi, 141 bpm avg

Today I noticed that my quads and hamstrings are sore like in the old pre-low heart rate days. I'll mix in some "even easier" days until I adjust, but I guess this is something maffers should be aware of. Some summer treadmill running is probably a good idea just to go faster occasionally and keep your leg strength up.

If the weather's anything like today I'm pretty optimistic about setting a good time at the Army 10 miler in 2 weeks but I'm dismayed by the fact they've banned HRMs for "security." I'm sure I'll be fine but I really think the HRM helped me push myself at the annapolis 10-miler. This will be my first and last Army 10 miler. I like the club races better anyway.

Greg

[This message has been edited by gregw (edited Sep-22-2006).]


What a funky thing about the HR monitor ban at the Army 10.
It's not as if it would even set off a metal detector. Nonetheless,
that race has some issue every year. I believe last year something
got messed up with the course and it became the Army 11 miler
without any warning.

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MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports

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kcy1998
Cool Runner
posted Sep-24-2006 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcy1998     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stealth26:
leitnerj and others,
I have read most of your posts and you guys are machines... I hope I can improve some from this type of training.

I just started low HR training. I would like to get some feed back on these #s. I have only been running since Feb 06
I smoked until Jan 01/06(17+ years)... With little exercise...I weighed 230ish in January and am down to 193. I will be 36 years old... I worked up from C25k program to a HM 9/10/06 with time of 2 hrs 15 min 56 sec... Starting HR in high 160's HR peaked around 178 to 180's until the last mile HR of 192. I found that I really need to work on a solid base... Any help or input would be great. I plan on doing this traning at least until March 07, I figure this should give me a good base to build on.

First MAF test on new treadmill.
Warm-up as follows:
1.5 min @ 3 mph HR/90/bpm
.5 min @ 3.1mph HR/100bpm
1 min @ 3.3 mph HR 102bpm
1 min @ 3.5 mph HR 107bpm
1 min @ 3.7 mph HR 123bpm
1 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
2 min @ 3.8mph HR 134bpm
3 min @ 3.9mph HR 129bpm
.68 miles after warm-up...11 min warmup total.
MAF test results

Mile #1...15:45/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #2...15:09/HR136.....@3.9mph
Mile #3...15:21/HR134.....@3.9mph
Mile #4...15:24/HR135.....@3.9mph
Mile #5...15:51/HR135.....@3.9mph to 3.6mph
Mile 5..3/4 in heart rate spiked to 145 became stable again at 134bpm at 3.6



Stealth,
Congrats on the life style change. Loosing that amount of weight shows that you are determined to make a positive change. Stay with the MAF even when your mind says to run faster. MAF is a real mental thing. Keep checking out the postings for MAF. Leitner, Jimmy and others are VERY INFORMATIVE. Keep posting your progress. It offers encouragement to everyone else.
Good Luck, kcy

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My Running Page

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