posted Aug-19-2006 04:45 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
It's simple as pie. You either want to give MAF training a real go to see what happens, or you don't....

... BTW, I don't believe there are any "junk" miles. If someone believes they are junk, why bother doing them?

Good luck!

--Jimmy

---

Thank you for the helpful reply Jimmy :-)

The idea of Junk Miles I just got from one of Jesse's posts. Miles that don't fit firmly in the aerobic or anaerobic borders...

I haven't started any particular program yet, I'm very much in the experimentation phase of a return to running after a few years off. I've been running off and on for 28 years, but want to reduce that injury-induced off-time to a bare minimum, which I guess is my overall goal.

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posted Aug-19-2006 07:14 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by effzee:
Thank you for the helpful reply Jimmy :-)

The idea of Junk Miles I just got from one of Jesse's posts. Miles that don't fit firmly in the aerobic or anaerobic borders...

I haven't started any particular program yet, I'm very much in the experimentation phase of a return to running after a few years off. I've been running off and on for 28 years, but want to reduce that injury-induced off-time to a bare minimum, which I guess is my overall goal.

---

Well, this direction isn't a bad choice for reducing the possibilities of injury. Look what Jesse has done in his short time running, his legs should be dangling by a few mitochondria and ready to fall off, but they're not. The key to this is patience--it's an investment. I did this for the first 12 weeks this year and I was very surprised at how well I did in two marathons very close together back in the spring, despite being a bit overweight for me. I'm giving it another go, but attempting too run a higher volume, keeping a low HR ceiling at MAF -10 (65% MHR) for the majority of my miles, and MAF for relatively few. I want to insure that I'm working just the slow twitchers, and that I'm not putting too high a training load by doing speed right now--65% should keep it down. I'm slow again right now, but that's temporary.

I wish you the best in your comeback.

--Jimmy

Current MAF Training
My running world

In the spring,

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posted Aug-20-2006 09:28 AM               

And that's where the competitive edge started for me. I thought if I ran harder I would go faster and farther... Thats why I have joined this site and followed this thread!! I started doing lower heart rate training about 2 weeks ago and feel amazing...

I use to run a 5k in under 22 minutes and be wiped out at the end. Yeah, its fast, but I don't think I was doing my body any favors... I was getting injured all the time, back, knee, foot, hip, whatever you name it I always was sore/limping.

So... I use to run only a max of 30 minutes and about 3.5 miles. Pretty good, but I would be exhausted, barely able to function, and I thought it was good for me!! Recently I have started to go about 4 miles in 45 minutes. I feel good after my excersise, tired, but good. I am trying to keep my HR under 160... sometimes I catch it higher than the 180-age rule.

No real questions, just praising this technique, I like it, and I hope I can stick by it! Jerry, Jimmy, Leitner, whatever your name is, Thank you for all of the links and helpful insights and information.

do you do any speed training leitnerj?

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posted Aug-20-2006 03:45 PM            

Background info:

My MAF HR is 130, I'm 55, been running 3 years.
Been running 40-50 MPW for several months.
Best 1/2 marathon time (about a year ago) was 1:50.
Training for an Oct marathon (my first) and hope to be under 4 hours.
Most of my running has HR < 125 BPM (often in 1-teens) with exeption of once a week tempo run of 6 or more miles where I average about 8mm pace and HR up into the 140s.
Just today I ran my first run in the 20's .... 22 miles.
I had average pace of 10mm and average HR of about 120.
Although I can feel that I've exerted myself, I found the run to be remarkably pleasant, almost easy and could have easily gone for more miles.

Here's the questions: If I continue with above training, getting up to 50+ miles per week and do a 20+ mile run every other week, 1. Can I reasonably expect to break 4 hours in mid-Oct marathon? 2. Can I reasonably hope for a 3:45 so I can BQ? 3. Should I be doing anything different?

Thanks.

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posted Aug-20-2006 05:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mrwizard:
Question for Maffers:

Background info:

My MAF HR is 130, I'm 55, been running 3 years.
Been running 40-50 MPW for several months.
Best 1/2 marathon time (about a year ago) was 1:50.
Training for an Oct marathon (my first) and hope to be under 4 hours.
Most of my running has HR < 125 BPM (often in 1-teens) with exeption of once a week tempo run of 6 or more miles where I average about 8mm pace and HR up into the 140s.
Just today I ran my first run in the 20's .... 22 miles.
I had average pace of 10mm and average HR of about 120.
Although I can feel that I've exerted myself, I found the run to be remarkably pleasant, almost easy and could have easily gone for more miles.

Here's the questions: If I continue with above training, getting up to 50+ miles per week and do a 20+ mile run every other week, 1. Can I reasonably expect to break 4 hours in mid-Oct marathon? 2. Can I reasonably hope for a 3:45 so I can BQ? 3. Should I be doing anything different?

Thanks.

---

Based on what's here, I'd say 4:00 is high probability and 3:45 is possible. If your 8mm tempo runs are really at tempo pace (i.e. 10-miler pace or slower) then you have the speed (especially if the weather is better on marathon day). The question is going to be the endurance to go the last 6 miles. Predicting a first marathon time is hard because of that and that's probably why lots of people don't suggest going for a time on your first one.

It sounds like you're in a little better shape than me. I ran a 4:00 marathon in the spring peaking at 60 mpw and a 1:19 10-miler (~8mm pace). The calculators predict a 3:42 marathon but I couldn't run that. I have the inkling it's going to take ~65-70 mpw for me to get near that. Some people don't need that much, but you might find you need more than 50. 22 miles is also a large chunk of your current weeks (if <50 mpw). I'd sacrifice a couple of miles off the long run if it would help up the weekly total.

Have you worn your HRM during a race (and know what your avereage heart rate was)? What was your heart rate/pace at the end of your 22 miler?

The other week I played with running my marathon heart rate for the last 4 miles of an 18-miler. I ran my two spring marathons with a 172 bpm average in both. I did the 4 miles at 9:00 min/mi pace and 171 average, which sound about right for me and the conditions (9:09 is 4-hr pace). I think projecting marathon times from pace/heart rate early in a run is very hard, but if you're sufficiently tired it should be pretty good.

Greg

[This message has been edited by gregw (edited Aug-20-2006).]

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posted Aug-20-2006 06:36 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by mrwizard:
Question for Maffers:

Background info:

My MAF HR is 130, I'm 55, been running 3 years.
Been running 40-50 MPW for several months.
Best 1/2 marathon time (about a year ago) was 1:50.
Training for an Oct marathon (my first) and hope to be under 4 hours.
Most of my running has HR < 125 BPM (often in 1-teens) with exeption of once a week tempo run of 6 or more miles where I average about 8mm pace and HR up into the 140s.
Just today I ran my first run in the 20's .... 22 miles.
I had average pace of 10mm and average HR of about 120.
Although I can feel that I've exerted myself, I found the run to be remarkably pleasant, almost easy and could have easily gone for more miles.

Here's the questions: If I continue with above training, getting up to 50+ miles per week and do a 20+ mile run every other week, 1. Can I reasonably expect to break 4 hours in mid-Oct marathon? 2. Can I reasonably hope for a 3:45 so I can BQ? 3. Should I be doing anything different?

Thanks.

---

At some point soon, go out and do a 3:45 race pace tempo run for about 10 miles. See where your HR goes. If you are in the neighborhood of 80-82% MHR by the end, then I would say you have a chance. Becuase if you're staying mostly around 80% with a bit of a peak at 85% by the end, with a few months left, you're doing pretty well. That has proven true for me, give or take a few minutes. Some say 75-80% MHR is a good indicator.

Since this is your first marathon, be mentally prepared to accept just finishing as your goal. For most, it takes a few marathons to figure out how to measure your fitness before going in, and also how to run them.
It also takes awhile to really gain the endurance you need to not hit the wall. That being said, see how your race-pace tempo runs go, and if you feel that a BQ is possible, then going for it is defnitely a choice.

Good luck!

--Jimmy

Current MAF Training
My Running World

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posted Aug-20-2006 09:07 PM               

Jimmy,
Is it 80% of MHR or 80% of HRR? Didn't you incorporate some Hadd in your training in the spring? I thought he used HRR. My max is 204 and I have been training with the intention of averaging in the low 170's like Jesse. This would be 80% of HRR. I'm just wondering if I am being too ambitious.

------------------
Clay

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posted Aug-20-2006 11:29 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by crb81:
At some point soon, go out and do a 3:45 race pace tempo run for about 10 miles. See where your HR goes. If you are in the neighborhood of 80-82% MHR by the end, then I would say you have a chance. Becuase if you're staying mostly around 80% with a bit of a peak at 85% by the end, with a few months left, you're doing pretty well. That has proven true for me, give or take a few minutes. Some say 75-80% MHR is a good indicator.

Jimmy,
Is it 80% of MHR or 80% of HRR? Didn't you incorporate some Hadd in your training in the spring? I thought he used HRR. My max is 204 and I have been training with the intention of averaging in the low 170's like Jesse. This would be 80% of HRR. I'm just wondering if I am being too ambitious.

---

MHR.

I went back and looked at my tempo runs and just took the HR's and figured out the %MHR. When I was running the tempo runs, I wasn't really going by HR, but by projected race pace. The numbers I gave are very ballpark, and are what works for me as an indicator of my fitness when running race pace. If I'm running my projected race pace and I'm finishing at 90% MHR after 10 miles, that would indicate I need more aerobic work.

In the late fall-- early spring, I did about 16 weeks of MAF training with a week off in there near the beginning (Dec). My training times improved, but not as much as I thought they would. But when I did the two marathons, I realized I was very prepared aerobically.

This time around I'm doing at least 8 solid weeks of high volume with a very low HR ceiling of MAF-11 for most of my miles. the only fast stuff will be a few race pace tempo runs in the final 4-5 weeks before the marathon. I'm trying to see what happens when I don't flirt with the MAF. So I'm sucking it up, accepting the intitial slowness, and seeing what happens at -11 (equates to 65% MHR) and below.

I'm just going to deal with MHR here on in. It's easier to communicate and understand. Plus 128 bpm in relationship to my heart's governor of 197, is what it is. Even though I've used HRR, it sometimes seems as made up as anything else, and I wonder how relevant it really is to be adjusting zones according to resting HR.

--Jimmy

Current MAF Training
My Running World

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posted Aug-21-2006 07:05 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mort82:

No real questions, just praising this technique, I like it, and I hope I can stick by it! Jerry, Jimmy, Leitner, whatever your name is, Thank you for all of the links and helpful insights and information.

do you do any speed training leitnerj?

---

Sounds like you're reaping some good benefits, which is good to
hear since you're at the low end of the age spectrum and results
have been sketchy there. I don't do any speedwork at all.

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MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports

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posted Aug-21-2006 07:10 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by effzee:
Thank you for the helpful reply Jimmy :-)

The idea of Junk Miles I just got from one of Jesse's posts. Miles that don't fit firmly in the aerobic or anaerobic borders...

---

Even if I've said it before, I probably agree with Jimmy more - I don't
think there really are "junk miles" per se. However, one may get very
little benefit (and possibly see negative effects) from running most or
all of miles in the zone smack in between aerobic and anaerobic (which
is the zone that most people would naturally run in when they are fairly
new runners with poor aerobic conditioning without the aid of a heart
rate monitor).

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Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports

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posted Aug-22-2006 12:11 PM               

You finally convinced me to give it a real go of maf training so i have stopped running with a group and go reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel slow for all my runs.

At the moment I am enjoying not running against the clock

but I know it takes time to see an improvement but how long till i see some for eg not having to walk hills ect

TIA

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posted Aug-22-2006 04:41 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by footsie:
Jesse

You finally convinced me to give it a real go of maf training so i have stopped running with a group and go reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel slow for all my runs.

At the moment I am enjoying not running against the clock

but I know it takes time to see an improvement but how long till i see some for eg not having to walk hills ect

TIA

---

Good luck - I know it's difficult replacing camaraderie of a running
group with the camaraderie of an electronic device. The time for
progress depends on your running history, the amount of mileage
you run per week, genetics, and other factors. Whether you have
to walk up the hills will depend on the above plus the temperature
and humidity as well. Many have said that they started to see
significant improvements after 300-350 miles of strictly running
below MAF.

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posted Aug-22-2006 07:26 PM            

Just wanted to offer encouragement to any new MAFFERS.

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posted Aug-22-2006 07:38 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by runawayjesse:
Just wanted to jump in here real quick. I aplogise if I am interuppting conversation. After not visiting this thread in awhile I just feel it's fair to share my success. I will sum it up as short as possible. 30 some weeks ago I began MAFF training. My Pace at that time was a 12:00 m/m. Today my MAFF pace is a 8:40 m/m. My best 5k post maff was 22:07(7:06 pace). Last week I ran a 10k stright out of base training and ran a 42:48(6:54 pace).
Maybe because I'm on the low end (26 yrs old) I found that MAF+5, than later +10 reaped faster improvement.

Just wanted to offer encouragement to any new MAFFERS.

---

How dare you interrupt our private conversation? Who gave you
the password? In either case, it's great to see your post and your
results are phenomenal! I think it's important also to mention one thing-
I think you were probably originally one of the most frustrated people
trying this stuff and it was amazing to see you stick with it no matter
how much it ticked you off and see such a great payoff. So right now
are you running most of your mileage around 180-age+10, or is that
just how high you let it get?

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My marathons and ultras
My races and reports

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posted Aug-22-2006 08:04 PM            

I am still not ready to MAF completely just yet because I have a 10k on Sept. 23rd. Then I have until January before I start marathon training. So, I think that would be a perfect MAF base building time. For now, I am just trying to see where I am at. I did a MAF test at the track yesterday and I thought it was odd.

Pace Avg hr
Warmup: .95 miles 10:24 147
Mile 1: 1 mile 11:08 154
Mile 2: 1 mile 10:30 159
Mile 3: 1 mile 10:19 164
Mile 4: 1 mile 10:59 168

So, here is the deal. I let my heart rate creap up too high in mile 3. I had run into someone I know, so I stopped to say hello in the middle of my lap. (Bad idea...) So, then in mile 4, I felt like someone stood on my chest, and I looked at my watch and it was at 224 bpm!! And it did not come down for a few seconds. Usually I throw the random high heart rates out the window, but I FELT this one. It is what it feels like when I have an asthma attack. Luckily this one was short, so I ran the last lap as slow as possible. (The 224 really threw off the average.)

So, a few questions. What MAF should I be using for the test? I am 28, so my MAF is 152, but MAF +5 is 157. I have just been trying to stay under 160 when I am by myself. My other questions are asthma-related, so leitnerj please chime in! I was on advair for a month and that is when I had my best half marathon. I went off of it because I didn't want to pay the monthly cost when I thought I ran "fine" on my own. I was planning on starting the medication again when marathon training time comes in January. However, the last 3 weeks, my runs have felt like crap. I had 2 days in a row with asthma attacks. So, I started Advair again this morning. I was also tired of getting winded going up the stairs. My question is what regimens work for those of you who have asthma? Also, how does MAF work with asthma? Also, do any of you have this increased heart rate when you have an asthma attack?

Thanks for all your advice! I hope you remember me.

Kelly
www.seemommyrun.blogspot.com
www.marathonmommies.blogspot.com
www.myspace.com/marathonmommy20

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posted Aug-22-2006 11:27 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by marathonmommy:

So, here is the deal. I let my heart rate creap up too high in mile 3. I had run into someone I know, so I stopped to say hello in the middle of my lap. (Bad idea...) So, then in mile 4, I felt like someone stood on my chest, and I looked at my watch and it was at 224 bpm!! And it did not come down for a few seconds. Usually I throw the random high heart rates out the window, but I FELT this one. It is what it feels like when I have an asthma attack. Luckily this one was short, so I ran the last lap as slow as possible. (The 224 really threw off the average.)

So, a few questions. What MAF should I be using for the test? I am 28, so my MAF is 152, but MAF +5 is 157. I have just been trying to stay under 160 when I am by myself. My other questions are asthma-related, so leitnerj please chime in! I was on advair for a month and that is when I had my best half marathon. I went off of it because I didn't want to pay the monthly cost when I thought I ran "fine" on my own. I was planning on starting the medication again when marathon training time comes in January. However, the last 3 weeks, my runs have felt like crap. I had 2 days in a row with asthma attacks. So, I started Advair again this morning. I was also tired of getting winded going up the stairs. My question is what regimens work for those of you who have asthma? Also, how does MAF work with asthma? Also, do any of you have this increased heart rate when you have an asthma attack?

Thanks for all your advice! I hope you remember me.

Kelly
www.seemommyrun.blogspot.com
www.marathonmommies.blogspot.com
www.myspace.com/marathonmommy20

---

Hey Kelly - ok, first, I would suggest you use 180-age for MAF (maybe
I just like to punish people!) Next, I'm 99% sure that the 224 was not
a good reading. It's possible that if you were having an asthma attack
come on, it was just messing up the reading. When you ask how
MAF running works with asthma, my answer is that MAF-running will
be a whole lot easier on you with asthma. In fact, when I do enough
mileage below MAF, I don't need to take any medication. By the way,
I would recommend that you try singulair if you haven't already. It's
much easier than advair, just a pill to take at night that doesn't affect
your heart rate or anything. The fact that you have asthma or
symptoms of asthma should have little effect on your heart rate.
Also, generally speaking, at lower intensity, such as below MAF
heart rate, you will be less likely to spark an exercise-induced asthma
attack. Hence if you stay below MAF, there's a good chance you
won't spark off asthma issues.

------------------
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Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
My marathons and ultras
My races and reports

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posted Aug-23-2006 04:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by leitnerj:
How dare you interrupt our private conversation? Who gave you
the password? In either case, it's great to see your post and your
results are phenomenal! I think it's important also to mention one thing-
I think you were probably originally one of the most frustrated people
trying this stuff and it was amazing to see you stick with it no matter
how much it ticked you off and see such a great payoff. So right now
are you running most of your mileage around 180-age+10, or is that
just how high you let it get?

---

You are right Jesse. I was extreamly frustrated with this in the beginning. It was about 12 weeeks before I started to see any results. My true MAF without cheating is 180-age-10. For whatever reason at this pace I did not see results. It is important to note that right from the get go my pace vs. HR was steady at this zone.It is also important to note that my true MAF HR equated to only 68% of my max HR. I'm thinking that maybe I was not putting enough stress on the heart to make any gains. I raised my zone to MAF+5 on some days, MAF +10 on a few and true MAF on the others. I slowly started to do more days on the +10 side and less on the true MAF side. Last week after my 10k marked the end of base for me. Just this week I started interval training and I'm going to start racing every weekend. Any aerobic running I do will be at my true MAF just to keep it on the recovery end. The great part is I can actually run at that HR. It's funny that I used to cring when the alarm on my monitor went off. The other day when I was running just a shake out run, my HR never went over MAF-10. I was thinking about the days when I would have to walk to keep it this low. Proof that this works!

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posted Aug-23-2006 07:09 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by marathonmommy:
Hey Everyone,

I am still not ready to MAF completely just yet because I have a 10k on Sept. 23rd. Then I have until January before I start marathon training. So, I think that would be a perfect MAF base building time. For now, I am just trying to see where I am at. I did a MAF test at the track yesterday and I thought it was odd.

Pace Avg hr
Warmup: .95 miles 10:24 147
Mile 1: 1 mile 11:08 154
Mile 2: 1 mile 10:30 159
Mile 3: 1 mile 10:19 164
Mile 4: 1 mile 10:59 168

So, here is the deal. I let my heart rate creap up too high in mile 3. I had run into someone I know, so I stopped to say hello in the middle of my lap. (Bad idea...) So, then in mile 4, I felt like someone stood on my chest, and I looked at my watch and it was at 224 bpm!! And it did not come down for a few seconds. Usually I throw the random high heart rates out the window, but I FELT this one. It is what it feels like when I have an asthma attack. Luckily this one was short, so I ran the last lap as slow as possible. (The 224 really threw off the average.)

So, a few questions. What MAF should I be using for the test? I am 28, so my MAF is 152, but MAF +5 is 157. I have just been trying to stay under 160 when I am by myself. My other questions are asthma-related, so leitnerj please chime in! I was on advair for a month and that is when I had my best half marathon. I went off of it because I didn't want to pay the monthly cost when I thought I ran "fine" on my own. I was planning on starting the medication again when marathon training time comes in January. However, the last 3 weeks, my runs have felt like crap. I had 2 days in a row with asthma attacks. So, I started Advair again this morning. I was also tired of getting winded going up the stairs. My question is what regimens work for those of you who have asthma? Also, how does MAF work with asthma? Also, do any of you have this increased heart rate when you have an asthma attack?

Thanks for all your advice! I hope you remember me.

Kelly
www.seemommyrun.blogspot.com
www.marathonmommies.blogspot.com
www.myspace.com/marathonmommy20

---

Hey Kelly,

Congrats on starting a new direction.
Your MAF test should be done averaging at your MAF. So, if you use 152, then all your miles should average that as best you can (stay between 150-153). E.G. Here is my last MAF test:

pace HR
8:37 141
8:53 141
9:08 141
9:21 141
9:27 141

I kept my HR between 139-142 as best as I could.
The idea is to do the test the same way under the same conditions if possible. So use the same route, and try to pick a similar type of day.
This will enable you to track your progress.

For regular training, your MAF should be a ceiling. I suggest using MAF-5 for a ceiling, so that you don't flirt with the top. In your test you were way over your MAF by the end, so you need to slow down to stay under. That's if you're playing the MAF training game by its rules.

Good luck!

--Jimmy

Current MAF Training
My Running World

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posted Aug-23-2006 09:51 AM            

Jimmy- I have a hard time keeping my heart rate regular. I think I need a longer, slower warmup. Your results are inspiring!! I hope MAF helps me get to Boston also. First off though, I hope it helps me have a marathon without an asthma attack!

Kelly

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posted Aug-23-2006 11:17 AM            

Technically, I have not been following MAF - rather I have been using the Heart Rate Reserve (HRR) method advocated by Parker and others. Being as I am 54 years young and have been running for only a year, I just couldn't get my head around running to a HR of 126 (or even 131 if I add 5 beats for fitness level).

I started HR training about 3 or 4 months ago. Initially I observed a MHR of 172 which, when my RHR of 48 was factored in, gave me an easy day 70% ceiling of 134 and a hard day 85% floor of 154 or so.

For the longest time, I was seriously unconvinced that anything positive was happening - in fact, my body has adapted to and has been loving the slow pace (which is quite worrisome by the way). Maybe the timing of starting this HR training wasn't great as I live in S. Fla. and the heat and humidity has been on bigtime as expected. And I have my 1st full marathon coming up in January and have been training with the Pfitz 18/55 program since May (I'm doing 2 Pfitz 18 week training cycles back-to-back to ensure I'm in great shape for the race).

But I am nothing if not dedicated. So I persisted with the HR training, adapting it into the Pfitz plan as best this newbie could manage. Then last month I ran my 1st ever 5K (hard) and observed a MHR of 178. Cool! Now I wouldn't have to run quite so slowly! This put the 70% HRR number at 139 and the 85% at 159. Also the 1st Pfitz cycle moved into it's later stages where a bit of speed work (intervals, etc.) is called for. This was the 1st time I had been able to allow myself to run fast in many months and though taxing, felt good for a change.

Sorry for what must seem like an exceedingly long post. And what's my point?

Well, I don't know for sure if the HR training has helped or if it's just a combination of that with the Pfitz marathon training I've been doing and the recent intervals/speed work. But something has definitely kicked in very recently.

Lately, I have noticed my easy runs have dropped to around 9:40 min/mile, where they had been over 10 min/mile for months and hadn't moved a bit. And my body is holding up well. I am up to about 50 miles per week and have been for a month or more. I have run several 17 to 18 mile runs and two 20+ milers without any injury/ache issues, though the HR spiked well toward the end, not unexpectedly I suppose. Pfitz likes midweek medium long runs, so I have done innumerable midweek 10 to 12 milers in the predawn darkness.

I'm not totally convinced of this low HR stuff. The Pfitz training is quite good and probably accounts for some of my improvement at easy pace. But I must admit ... Something positive seems to be going on. Nothing hurts, I seem to be getting a bit quicker, and that's considering that the heat and humidity has not let up a bit and won't for several more months. I hope when it cools down I'll see another nice drop. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for letting me read this great thread for all these months and for letting my intrude on it a little.

Bill

------------------
Bill's Profile

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posted Aug-23-2006 12:41 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by breger1:

I'm not totally convinced of this low HR stuff.

Bill

---

And you never will be, or be able to say honestly that it doesn't work, unless you give it a good try and rule it out.

Congrats on your progress using Pfitzinger with a dash of Parker. I had a pretty good marathon last year using the same thing.

I wish you the best with your PFitzinger training.
Hope you realize your goals!

Good luck!

--Jimmy

Current MAF Training
My Running World

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posted Aug-23-2006 01:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by breger1:

... Then last month I ran my 1st ever 5K (hard) and observed a MHR of 178. Cool! Now I wouldn't have to run quite so slowly! This put the 70% HRR number at 139 and the 85% at 159 ...

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Hi just wondering what the formula is used for 70% of 178 = 139?

I've seen similar posts where my math does not work.

Am I using the wrong fomula .7 * 178 = 124.6 ?

Thanks
Chris

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posted Aug-23-2006 02:00 PM            

The thought is your heart can't beat any faster than the max nor slower than your resting rate, so find aerobic, etc. ranges based on the actual range of beats that your heart can actually produce.

MHR = Maximum Heart rate = 178
RHR = Resting Heart Rate = 48

Easy Run = (70% of (MHR minus RHR)) plus RHR
Hard Run = (85% of (MHR minus RHR)) plus RHR

(.70 * (178 - 48)) + 48 = 139
(.85 * (178 - 48)) + 48 = 159

Bill

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[This message has been edited by breger1 (edited Aug-23-2006).]

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posted Aug-23-2006 09:02 PM               

After chewing on the idea for a few months, I finally decided to go for it and try the low HR-based training for a few months. If nothing else it's a great excuse to upgrade my gear, so I promptly procured a Forerunner 305 (which gets my high praise based on its performance so far, by the way).

Although the idea is admittedly appealing, I'm not terribly focused on cutting times and racking up new PRs. My running goal has evolved to focus more on higher mileage training and longer distance events and I'm hoping to try an ultra or two around the end of this year or in the early part of next year. Speed? It's nice, but a secondary objective at best. In any case, this sort of approach seems to fit very well with my running future.

Before I ramble further, I actually do have a question --or perhaps a request for reassurance. I've been running for 4 years and am in pretty good condition so, at age 31, my MAF should be 154. I've been running at (mostly) below this level for about 40 miles total (about a week) and have never felt better after each run. No tightness, tweaky muscles, or tremendous fatigue. In fact, it feels too good to be true. It's not that I'm driven crazy by scooting along at an 11m/m pace; I don't mind that at all. It's that this feels too easy. I feel like I've been on a week-long hiatus. Surely this can't be right.

I know the answer I'm likely to get, but someone please hold my hand, pat me on the head, and tell me everything is fine and that this is as it should be.

Thanks!

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posted Aug-23-2006 11:23 PM               

I can tell you from experience...I ran a 3:09 marathon in April and it almost killed me. After several months of Maff I can almost guarantee that I could bang out a 3:00 as a training run. Good luck and stick with it...you'll see great results!

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