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Low HR training/base-building ala Maffetone/Mark Allen


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Author Topic:   Low HR training/base-building ala Maffetone/Mark Allen
kommish77
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posted Jul-11-2006 05:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kommish77     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have noticed the water phenomena as well, but what is really cool his how your mind can raise your heartrate quickly! I will be slogging around at 135bpm, and start thinking about my next race, or playing paintball/softball and all of a sudden my HR monitor is beeping at me and I am at 145!! I have been trying to reverse this so I could run quicker and slow my HR down, but even thinking of playing chess or checkers or legos hasn't done the trick.

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OnlyWhnChasd
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posted Jul-11-2006 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for OnlyWhnChasd     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hope it's okay for a new MAFer to jump in here...

After reading some of these posts, I decided to jump in and give MAF a try. I'm just rebuilding my base from being out with injury anyway, so I don't feel I have anything to lose and potentially a lot to gain.

My MAF HR is 151 (180-29 age). I'm trying to stay in the 141-151 range on my runs. In the three MAF runs I've done, my pace has been between 12:30-13:00. Oddly, on Satuday's long run of 8 miles, my pace actually improved towards the end, even though I was keeping my heart rate down. Is that part of the plan?

Now for some questions: I would like to do a half marathon Sept. 24th or 30th (haven't decided which one yet). Would having just under 3 months of MAF training and then doing a race be detrimental to my MAF progress? I'm willing to forego the race if necessary, though I would like to do it. However, building a strong base and getting the most out of the MAF program is the most important thing here.

Also, I plan to begin a marathon training program the first week of December. Assuming I bypass the HM in Sept. (or do the race and go straight back to MAF), do you think this amount of time (just under 5 months) at MAF training will be enough to see improvement?

I've been running for a little over a year, did dance prior to that so fairly fit. Right now I'm running 5 days a week. This week I'll be at 30mpw and I'm ramping up by about 10% (sometimes a bit less) weekly, with a step back week every four weeks. Assuming all goes to plan (injury free), I plan for my base mileage to peak out around 50mpw where I plan to stay until beginning marathon training in December. Does this sound like a good plan for MAF, or do you really need more mileage to benefit? I keep reading posts that seem to indicate you won't see MAF results on low mileage.

Thanks for your time. If nothing else, I'm enjoying running at MAF because I feel I can run forever. Did 8 miles last Saturday and felt like I could go another 8. Of course old ladies with walkers were passing me on the hills, but what the heck. :-D

Emy

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corland14
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posted Jul-11-2006 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for corland14   Click Here to Email corland14     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I ran a different kind of run today. I was pushing my baby jogger on the local river trail. Running slow today was not comfortable so I kind of ran an interval run. I would walk briskly until my heart rate was about 120, then run 5k pace until heart rate was 140 (my MAFF training limit).

Is this kind of training still aerobic? Is this productive Maffetone training or not?

Thanks

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fredurie
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posted Jul-11-2006 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredurie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Monday

AM 3 mile warmup, 25 times 30 seconds on/30 seconds off,
HR up to around 160, 1 mile warmdown, 71F and 80%
humidity

Tuesday

AM 12 @ around 7:45, 70F and 83%, HR 76 climbing to 99

[This message has been edited by fredurie (edited Jul-11-2006).]

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martinjames
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posted Jul-11-2006 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for martinjames     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Q: Based on what I've read, different muscles get activated at different heart rates. Thus, certain slow twitch muscles activated and trained at 70% HR, different slow twitch muscles at 77%, and fast twitch at 85%. So it's steamier than a terrarium here and i do 90 minutes w/70 minutes at 80% HR. But because of this godforsaken slop, my pace is not spectacular - 8-1/2 to 10 minute miles depending on hills. So even at this relatively slow pace, am I still training the faster twitch muscles (or semi-slow or whatever) at this HR? Does this make sense?

These are the thoughts to which my mind wanders as I slog uphill at a gentle but sweaty trot.

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leitnerj
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posted Jul-11-2006 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OnlyWhnChasd:
Hope it's okay for a new MAFer to jump in here...

After reading some of these posts, I decided to jump in and give MAF a try. I'm just rebuilding my base from being out with injury anyway, so I don't feel I have anything to lose and potentially a lot to gain.

My MAF HR is 151 (180-29 age). I'm trying to stay in the 141-151 range on my runs. In the three MAF runs I've done, my pace has been between 12:30-13:00. Oddly, on Satuday's long run of 8 miles, my pace actually improved towards the end, even though I was keeping my heart rate down. Is that part of the plan?

Now for some questions: I would like to do a half marathon Sept. 24th or 30th (haven't decided which one yet). Would having just under 3 months of MAF training and then doing a race be detrimental to my MAF progress? I'm willing to forego the race if necessary, though I would like to do it. However, building a strong base and getting the most out of the MAF program is the most important thing here.

Also, I plan to begin a marathon training program the first week of December. Assuming I bypass the HM in Sept. (or do the race and go straight back to MAF), do you think this amount of time (just under 5 months) at MAF training will be enough to see improvement?

I've been running for a little over a year, did dance prior to that so fairly fit. Right now I'm running 5 days a week. This week I'll be at 30mpw and I'm ramping up by about 10% (sometimes a bit less) weekly, with a step back week every four weeks. Assuming all goes to plan (injury free), I plan for my base mileage to peak out around 50mpw where I plan to stay until beginning marathon training in December. Does this sound like a good plan for MAF, or do you really need more mileage to benefit? I keep reading posts that seem to indicate you won't see MAF results on low mileage.

Thanks for your time. If nothing else, I'm enjoying running at MAF because I feel I can run forever. Did 8 miles last Saturday and felt like I could go another 8. Of course old ladies with walkers were passing me on the hills, but what the heck. :-D

Emy


Welcome to the club! new MAFers always welcome. There are
occasions when you will see improvement many miles into the
run. Perhaps you just got warmed up or comfortable by that time.
Happens to me periodically. I start getting better at around mile
7 usually. Sprinkle in your half marathon at 3 months. It will be
good for you. See what happens. It won't give you a big black
mark in your progress - it may be a good stimulation for you at
the time. Improvement varies person-to-person, but you're likely
to see some progress by that point. Good luck!


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leitnerj
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posted Jul-11-2006 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by corland14:
I ran a different kind of run today. I was pushing my baby jogger on the local river trail. Running slow today was not comfortable so I kind of ran an interval run. I would walk briskly until my heart rate was about 120, then run 5k pace until heart rate was 140 (my MAFF training limit).

Is this kind of training still aerobic? Is this productive Maffetone training or not?

Thanks


sounds reasonable to me - the only hard and fast rules are keep
your heart rate below MAF and avoid carbs before ...

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leitnerj
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posted Jul-11-2006 08:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by martinjames:
Q: Based on what I've read, different muscles get activated at different heart rates. Thus, certain slow twitch muscles activated and trained at 70% HR, different slow twitch muscles at 77%, and fast twitch at 85%. So it's steamier than a terrarium here and i do 90 minutes w/70 minutes at 80% HR. But because of this godforsaken slop, my pace is not spectacular - 8-1/2 to 10 minute miles depending on hills. So even at this relatively slow pace, am I still training the faster twitch muscles (or semi-slow or whatever) at this HR? Does this make sense?

These are the thoughts to which my mind wanders as I slog uphill at a gentle but sweaty trot.


I wish I really knew. Most reading paraphernalia does associate
the muscle fiber transitions with particular heart rate "cut-offs"
so I presume that whether heat was a contributor or not, it would
occur at that zone.

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runninlaw
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posted Jul-11-2006 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for runninlaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jesse (and others),

I have been following this for a while, but I cannot honestly remember all that has been posted, so excuse me if this is a stupid question. Why is it that you have to lower your heart rate so much to see improvement? I mean, doesn't it stand to reason that if you ran at 70% or even higher, your body would still improve at that rate over time?

I am in the process of buying my HRM, but I have not yet done so. What that means is that I have no idea what any of my HR times/percentages are, but I have slowed down lately in trying to follow all of the "proper" training techniques. My problem is that at the same time, after blowing out another pair of very expensive shoes rather quickly, my running store and coaches said it was probably from running too slow (thus impairing my optimal gait and braking instead of accelerating). HMMMMMM...you can't always get what you want. But explain to me why I need to run slower to build that base. Wouldn't any regular, sustained running build the base? (And sorry again if this is a fundamental thing that I am unaware of).

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aharmer
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posted Jul-12-2006 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aharmer   Click Here to Email aharmer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Runnin,

With all due respect to your running store and coaches, slow running does not ruin running shoes. Mileage and weight are what wear down running shoes. 'Braking' by running slow usually only happens if you're running downhill, so assuming you don't do all of your runs on a downgrade I think we should look elsewhere to identify your problems.

Running at lower heart rates builds your aerobic system, which is important for several reasons. As you improve your aerobic system, you increase the pace that you can run before you burn primarily glycogen. This is obviously important if you're planning on running longer distances (1/2 marathon and up). Another thing low HR training does is allow you to run higher mileage with lower risk of injury and fatigue. Higher mileage allows your body to increase capillary density and mitocondrial volume. These are the systems your body uses to clear lactic acid. In shorter races of higher intensity, lactic acid begins to accumulate. When the rate of accumulation exceeds the rate of clearance, you begin to feel rotten. Higher capillary density and mitocondria volume improves this clearance, allowing you to feel rotten at a higher speed.

I'm neither a coach nor an expert on exercise physiology, and I don't know much about your history, but there's a pretty good chance slowing down will improve your running.

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[This message has been edited by aharmer (edited Jul-12-2006).]

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d3finition
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posted Jul-12-2006 05:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for d3finition   Click Here to Email d3finition     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Jesse. I have been working a lot on your MAF methods and I have made about a 50% improvement in distance ran and my speed increased minimally all at the same effort. However, I feel as if I am hitting a plateau. My speed is hardly improving. It's as though I am so accustomed to this speed that I cannot run even a little faster. Also, my distance ran is barely making any progress too. Could this be due to some "fast-twitch" muscles that I need to strengthen?

I was considering increasing my stride length and frequency during my MAF runs. This might make me decrease my overall distance ran. Is this an ideal way to break the plateau and start training at a new speed? If so, I am quite short (about 160 cm). Since I have short legs do you suggest I lift my thighs up higher to gain stride length or do I go for increase frequency in order to increase speed? I am aiming to break 22 minutes for the 5k and I am currently doing
15 mpw for an easy week and 20 mpw for a harder week.

The most pressing question I have is the speed transition when training base. By just increasing milage, do you naturally gain speed. My speed has remained stagnant for about a month and the distance is not increasing as fast as before. Is it advisable to "restart" the training by going at a faster pace and "retraining" that base?

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d3finition
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posted Jul-12-2006 05:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for d3finition   Click Here to Email d3finition     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Jesse. I have been working a lot on your MAF methods and I have made about a 50% improvement in distance ran and my speed increased minimally all at the same effort. However, I feel as if I am hitting a plateau. My speed is hardly improving. It's as though I am so accustomed to this speed that I cannot run even a little faster. Also, my distance ran is barely making any progress too. Could this be due to some "fast-twitch" muscles that I need to strengthen?

I was considering increasing my stride length and frequency during my MAF runs. This might make me decrease my overall distance ran. Is this an ideal way to break the plateau and start training at a new speed? If so, I am quite short (about 160 cm). Since I have short legs do you suggest I lift my thighs up higher to gain stride length or do I go for increase frequency in order to increase speed? I am aiming to break 22 minutes for the 5k and I am currently doing
15 mpw for an easy week and 20 mpw for a harder week.

The most pressing question I have is the speed transition when training base. By just increasing milage, do you naturally gain speed. My speed has remained stagnant for about a month and the distance is not increasing as fast as before. Is it advisable to "restart" the training by going at a faster pace and "retraining" that base?

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leitnerj
Cool Runner
posted Jul-12-2006 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by runninlaw:
Jesse (and others),

I have been following this for a while, but I cannot honestly remember all that has been posted, so excuse me if this is a stupid question. Why is it that you have to lower your heart rate so much to see improvement? I mean, doesn't it stand to reason that if you ran at 70% or even higher, your body would still improve at that rate over time?

I am in the process of buying my HRM, but I have not yet done so. What that means is that I have no idea what any of my HR times/percentages are, but I have slowed down lately in trying to follow all of the "proper" training techniques. My problem is that at the same time, after blowing out another pair of very expensive shoes rather quickly, my running store and coaches said it was probably from running too slow (thus impairing my optimal gait and braking instead of accelerating). HMMMMMM...you can't always get what you want. But explain to me why I need to run slower to build that base. Wouldn't any regular, sustained running build the base? (And sorry again if this is a fundamental thing that I am unaware of).


Hi runninlaw-

First, I agree with everything that aharmer said in his response.
You should never be braking. I have two pair of shoes that have
over 1000 slow miles put on each and they hardly even look
worn! Next, there are a lot of ways to build fitness and improve
at running. This is just one. For some people, it's not the right
approach for them. This approach takes the most patience out
of any and for some it will give the most payoff. Many people
simply do not have the patience it requires. If you haven't yet,
you should read the first two items in the FAQ, the first
indicating who is a good candidate and the second with some
good links. You should at least read the Maffetone and the
Mark Allen - duathlon.com link. You should interpret my inputs
to this thread not as "here's the way you have to run" but rather
"here is something that worked for me in a spectacular way -
perhaps it will solve similar problems for you." Putting things
very simply, running at higher heart rates burns more carb vs
fat, uses more fast twitch muscle fibers, and may not provide
the mitochondria development that reaps the benefits. If you
want to see the types of improvements I and other posters
have seen, you should follow as closely as possible. If you
just want to improve, you certainly can follow a different
approach and it may work well for you.

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leitnerj
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posted Jul-12-2006 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by d3finition:
Hi Jesse. I have been working a lot on your MAF methods and I have made about a 50% improvement in distance ran and my speed increased minimally all at the same effort. However, I feel as if I am hitting a plateau. My speed is hardly improving. It's as though I am so accustomed to this speed that I cannot run even a little faster. Also, my distance ran is barely making any progress too. Could this be due to some "fast-twitch" muscles that I need to strengthen?

I was considering increasing my stride length and frequency during my MAF runs. This might make me decrease my overall distance ran. Is this an ideal way to break the plateau and start training at a new speed? If so, I am quite short (about 160 cm). Since I have short legs do you suggest I lift my thighs up higher to gain stride length or do I go for increase frequency in order to increase speed? I am aiming to break 22 minutes for the 5k and I am currently doing
15 mpw for an easy week and 20 mpw for a harder week.

The most pressing question I have is the speed transition when training base. By just increasing milage, do you naturally gain speed. My speed has remained stagnant for about a month and the distance is not increasing as fast as before. Is it advisable to "restart" the training by going at a faster pace and "retraining" that base?


Ok, a few things. First, of all your mileage is very low for building
endurance. Also, I believe you said you were 17 or 18 or so, right?
Given the two above, it's quite positive that you've achieved the
progress you already have. It may be that you've plateaued, but
it's more likely that you need to build up ot more significant mileage,
say 30-40 per week. I'd suggest you flip through the FAQ and read
the maffetone and Mark Allen links because any answer I give
would be addressed there.


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aharmer
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posted Jul-12-2006 09:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aharmer   Click Here to Email aharmer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jesse,

Best of luck this weekend at Vermont...what a challenge that will be! It was over 90 at my place today so I ducked into my basement for a TM test, couldn't imagine having to go out and run 100M in that!

Have taken my pace from 8:41 down to 7:55 on the TM tests in two months, things are still going as planned.

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leitnerj
Cool Runner
posted Jul-12-2006 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leitnerj   Click Here to Email leitnerj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aharmer:
Jesse,

Best of luck this weekend at Vermont...what a challenge that will be! It was over 90 at my place today so I ducked into my basement for a TM test, couldn't imagine having to go out and run 100M in that!

Have taken my pace from 8:41 down to 7:55 on the TM tests in two months, things are still going as planned.


thanks a lot - latest weather reports show high of 95! It goes
up every time I check. You are really kicking butt - I'd suspect
you may break 3 on the next marathon ...

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Maroo
Cool Runner
posted Jul-13-2006 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Maroo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a question:

I'm just starting back up exercising after a three month layoff of laziness (and other excuses!). I swam, biked and ran before this "rest." I've been reading these threads a bit and am very inspired to try this Maff approach.

Here's my problem--I have just started a weight training program (2x per week) for the first time in ages and I have also resumed Spin classes (usually quite high intensity, 2x per week). Do these high intensity activities make trying the Maff HR with my running (about 3x per week for an hour and 1x per week for 1.5 to 2 hours) useless? Will I still get results even though I am doing the weights and the spinning?

Thanks a lot for any replies!

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jjwaverly42
Cool Runner
posted Jul-14-2006 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jjwaverly42   Click Here to Email jjwaverly42     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to show you how heat effects heart rate and performance, here are two LT tempo runs done lately:

July 5th, 2006
temp: 55 85% humidity
warm-up
pace ave HR
11:14 110
9:13 132

LT miles
7:25 162
7:15 172
7:06 177
7:08 180

Ave Pace: 7:14

Today, July 14th 2006
temp: 88 54% humidity

warm-up
10:47 118
9:03 150

LT MILES
7:27 175
7:23 184
8:07 188
9:13 184

Ave pace: 8:03

There ya go. It was a hot one today! Didn't think I was going to make it without passing out. Maybe I did and this is a heat dream.

--Jimmy

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MrAl
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posted Jul-14-2006 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrAl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm just about to give this up. I've been running for about 7 years but I have real problems with improving pace and distance, so I read the MAF thread, got the Maffetone book, and in May I started. I run exclusively on a treadmill in a controlled environment so I should be pretty consistent in improvement, or so I would think.

I started off with running 18 minute miles. My schedule is to run 90 minutes, 5 days a week, at whatever best pace I could keep while in my MAF zone (133-143). Before I gave blood last week, I had "improved" to 17 minute miles. That's frustrating in itself because I've been at it for 230 miles at that point. Since I've given blood, and taken a few days off to recover, I'm running 18+ minute miles again. At this stage by the end of my run I've got the treadmill at under 3 miles an hour. It's really pathetic.

I'm about ready to give up. I've been running for so long and I see little to no improvement. Is it my schedule? I'm 6'3", 225 pounds so maybe I should lose weight? I just don't get it. I'm very consistent in my schedule and methods and yet I see most everyone have great results in the same period of time and I've regressed further past where I started.

Any advice from anyone?

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expectingrain
Cool Runner
posted Jul-14-2006 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for expectingrain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've noticed it seems alot easier to keep my HR at the right place on the elliptical. Does the elliptical help at all with running? Also, why would it be so much easier to keep the HR down?

Good luck to Jessie and all others racing this weekend, stay safe. You're going to be the best trained guys out there!

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kcy1998
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posted Jul-14-2006 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcy1998     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrAl:
I'm just about to give this up. I've been running for about 7 years but I have real problems with improving pace and distance, so I read the MAF thread, got the Maffetone book, and in May I started. I run exclusively on a treadmill in a controlled environment so I should be pretty consistent in improvement, or so I would think.

I started off with running 18 minute miles. My schedule is to run 90 minutes, 5 days a week, at whatever best pace I could keep while in my MAF zone (133-143). Before I gave blood last week, I had "improved" to 17 minute miles. That's frustrating in itself because I've been at it for 230 miles at that point. Since I've given blood, and taken a few days off to recover, I'm running 18+ minute miles again. At this stage by the end of my run I've got the treadmill at under 3 miles an hour. It's really pathetic.

I'm about ready to give up. I've been running for so long and I see little to no improvement. Is it my schedule? I'm 6'3", 225 pounds so maybe I should lose weight? I just don't get it. I'm very consistent in my schedule and methods and yet I see most everyone have great results in the same period of time and I've regressed further past where I started.

Any advice from anyone?


MrAl,
I really cannot say anything as to why MAF is not working for you. A friend of mine turned me onto MAF and he wound up quitting it. My friend is not a long distance runner. We talk about MAF and how I am progressing quite often. I have stuck with it and seen some positive results. When I started out I was doing a 14 minute mile. About 80% of all my mileage has been on a TM. I am currently able to do a 09:13 and I am shooting for a 03:30 in Chicago this year. I belive that the two biggest things that worked in my favor our 1)Total Mileage and 2)Runs of 90 minutes or more. I am confident that guru Jesse and others can provide additional words of wisdom.
kcy

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geez
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posted Jul-14-2006 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for geez   Click Here to Email geez     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MAFF Guroos:

I've been Maffing for several months, seeing some improvement, enjoying it.

Question: I will start training for my second marathon in a couple of months and I'm working on a training schedule now, most schedules have speed work built in, how do you handle that? I would really like to improve my time on this marathon. So, when I actually stat training do I do the speed work or just Maff at the suggested milage.

By the way, my run today was the first run where I have been at or below my target hr for all but two minutes,(it went lower when I was stopped to cross the street :-)

Thanks,
Gee

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StealthRunner
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posted Jul-14-2006 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StealthRunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MrAl,

You did see a one min/mile improvement over 230 miles. That's great! I think the slow down is because you donated blood. Your blood volume is probably still low, and your muscles are not receiving the oxygen that you need to run at an aerobic pace. I would give MAF another week before you totally give it up.

Stealth

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Mike Behnke
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posted Jul-14-2006 05:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Behnke   Click Here to Email Mike Behnke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Low HR training:

Thurs. night: 4 mile recovery,75F, indoor treadmill w/fan:

10:26/119
10:16/122
10:12/122
10:15/121
(Maff=139; so run was Maff-17).


Sat. afternoon(today): 10 miles, 86F, 70% humidity:

9:59/123
9:57/128
9:49/129
10:12/128
10:05/132
10:17/134
10:09/132
10:50/135
10:24/138
11:03/138
(Maff=139; so run was Maff-1).

Starting to acclimate to the heat, although still improving!

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gregw
Cool Runner
posted Jul-14-2006 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for gregw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Behnke:
Thurs. night: 4 mile recovery,75F, indoor treadmill w/fan:
improving!

I noticed the "w/fan" in this and was wondering how much difference that makes. I'm not really a treadmill runner but I was travelling and took the opportunity to do a MAF test on a treadmill hoping for a bit of an ego boost out of the humidity and found that while my speed was significantly faster in the early miles than outside, I slowed to almost the same pace by mile 5. I always feel like I have hot stagnant air around me when I run on a treadmill (which is one of the reasons I hate them). Could a fan make a significant difference in MAF pace? Here's July 10th (outside 67F temp/58F dew pt.) and July 13th (indoors ~68-70, low humidity). Both with 2 mile warmup.

7/10 7/13
Mile 1 09:30 08:46
Mile 2 09:32 09:13
Mile 3 09:34 09:26
Mile 4 09:38 09:40
Mile 5 09:45 09:44

By the way, good luck Jesse!

Greg

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