posted Jun-08-2006 10:17 PM            

It took a couple of weeks of running every day to get up to 4 miles per hour.

Now I can run at 5.2 mph and stay under maf. I can do 10 k's at 6.6 mph but then my heart rate goes way over maf.

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posted Jun-08-2006 10:27 PM            

Its been my experience that I get the most progress after doing a long run, but that you need other shorter runs too. I see progress for about every 50 hours of running that I do, which for me is about 6 weeks.

I suspect you would see less progress if all your runs are long.

Others may have better thoughts.

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posted Jun-09-2006 12:43 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by geargal:
Another beginning MAF question. I have been running consistently for the past 3 years. I have been averaging 30 miles per week. Most of my runs are usually completed at 75-85% of my MHR. I run between 9-10 minute miles. My longest run has been around 12 miles. 12 miles is the point at which I hit my wall. Obviously my aerobic system is underdeveloped. I have never participated in any races. My main goal at this point is to build endurance. I am contemplating running my first marathon a year from now. My questions are, when starting the MAF program what is the minimum time I should spend each week running to gain benefit from MAF type training? Lately I have been running for time not distance 5x week. Is it possible to build my aerobic system from runs under and 1 hour? Should I shoot to do 1-2 hours of running each time I run? Thanks for any input.

---

unfortunately, there's not straightforward answer - many people
have done quite well without very long runs, but others have needed
the long runs for payoff. I wouldn't just jump into really long runs, but
try to increase the length of one of your runs moderately over time.
Volume is certainly a trail-and-error aspect.

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posted Jun-09-2006 09:14 AM            

My MAF tests have been improving, and I'll be doing another one this weekend. My average pace on a morning run is about 8:30-8:40 now. That's down from 9:40-9:50 pace less than 2 months ago. The pace is slower in the afternoons, but I attribute that to the fact my body has been working all day, foods/drinks I've consumed, and the fact that it can be significantly warmer.

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posted Jun-09-2006 07:55 PM            

This is me:
http://www.asiorders.com/view_user_photo.asp?EVENTID=10064&ID=24250524&FROM=photos&BIB=16543

[This message has been edited by StealthRunner (edited Jun-09-2006).]

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posted Jun-11-2006 02:51 AM            

Yes the progress does come slowly, but it does come. And it will help with your shorter races as well.

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posted Jun-11-2006 08:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Cashmason:

Yes the progress does come slowly, but it does come. And it will help with your shorter races as well.

---

Cashmason, of course you are right. I have seen progress, but at a much slower pace. With my marathon training, I had to up the pace on my long runs because they were taking so much time. I would start out slow, then up the pace to more of a MP tempo run the last few miles. At first it seemed to help my MAF pace. I started seeing a few MAF miles at 12:00mm where as before I never saw anything faster than a 13mm. Since right now I am in marathon recovery mode, I am forcing myself to stay strictly at or below MAF. I have also incorporated some upper and lower body workouts into my training. Maybe by going to the gym I will be more inclined to jump on the TM for more regular MAF tests! I know my MAF tests are very important to do so I know if I am headed in the right direction.

Cathy

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posted Jun-11-2006 10:17 AM               

I just got my Garmin 305, did a little research, did some trials, and could use a little input.

Here are my stats: male, age 48, max HR via testing with the Garmin by pushing hard at the end of a tempo run 202 (yes, that's high for my age but it's consistant with other HR monitors I've tried, and has alwasys been high -- I could probably have pushed a few beats more); recent race time for 10 miles / 5k at 1:22 and 24:00, 5'9 and 175 and dropping, and about 18 months of consistant running after a 5 year layoff; prior to that running about 10 years with PRs of 3:12 for the mary and 40:30 for 10K. Resting pulse about 60. I average about 35 mpw with a long run on Sun and a 2-3 mile tempo on Thurs with 8 miles total.

I normally run long runs in the 12-15 mile range at about 9:30 to 10:15 pace, but suspected I was running too fast. I did a little review of the different suggestions for HR training pace, and settled on about 140-145, so yesterday under cool dry breezy conditions, did a 2 hour plus easy run and held my heart rate just under 140 on the way out, and just around 145 on the way back.

In order to do this, I had to drop my pace about 2 mins a mile into the 11:30 to 11:45 range. I felt like I was tiptoeing. Is this correct, or should I bump up the rate to 150 or so based on my high MHR?

[This message has been edited by sholak (edited Jun-11-2006).]

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posted Jun-11-2006 12:40 PM               

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posted Jun-11-2006 03:18 PM            

I’m sure Jesse will chime in when he is back. He has been so generous with his time.

Good Luck-Cathy

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posted Jun-11-2006 05:33 PM            

I did this one at 8 a.m. Using the first one (run in the afternoon) for a comparison, I have:

May 6: 8:52, 9:11, 9:09, 9:10, 9:06 total time=45:28
June11: 8:05, 8:27, 8:42, 8:49, 8:53 total time=42:56

The one run at 5 a.m. a couple of weeks ago had a starting mile of 7:39 and overall time of 40:31.

Either way, I can't be too unhappy. I'm 30 seconds/mile faster than I was a month ago at the same HR. I'll keep plugging away on it and will consider a 5K at the end of the month just for kicks.

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posted Jun-11-2006 10:00 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by StealthRunner:
Sholak, I’m not Jesse. I think he is out running a 100 miler somewhere! IMHO I think that you will see faster results if you keep your HR at or below MAF. MAF pace is 180 minus your age. I know it really is the pits at first! But with your past running history, I’m sure that you will progress fast! It is well worth the initial aggravation. If your marathon times are way out from your 5K, then this training is what you need.

I’m sure Jesse will chime in when he is back. He has been so generous with his time.

Good Luck-Cathy

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I was on travel at the end of last week and then did a half ironman
today. (100 miler is in mid-July!) Nothing wrong with your answer!

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posted Jun-12-2006 08:18 AM            

It tells people to train below a certain bpm, but what's the bottom of the range? I know I am going to have to walk (or run VERY slowly) to keep under the threshold but when my heart rate goes down (which it does very quickly) when do I start up again?

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posted Jun-12-2006 07:14 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by studiorex:
I am interested in base building using this method, but the one thing that I have not been able to ascertain is this...

It tells people to train below a certain bpm, but what's the bottom of the range? I know I am going to have to walk (or run VERY slowly) to keep under the threshold but when my heart rate goes down (which it does very quickly) when do I start up again?

---

There's not really a bottom as long as you're running. Mark Allen
says 80% of MAF, but if you can run at that, you probably already
have a great base (or a very low max heart rate, in which case you
shouldn't use the 180-age formula).

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posted Jun-13-2006 07:24 AM               

I've continued to plug along but I'm not good at logging my daily mileage. I *kinda* (when I remember) jot on my calendar my average HR and how long I run each day. I have been finishing routes faster each week, and now run 6 days a week, and power-walk and bike ride one day a week. My runs are never shorter than an hour, and I do two hilly routes a week, one more hilly and longer than the other. I manage a long run of two hours....don't know the distance; sounds weird I know~

Anyway, I begin Chicago Marathon Training next Monday, and that's when I follow a mileage schedule and I'll have to follow the distance required. I also signed up for the Portland Maine 1/2 Marathon on Oct. 1st. My friend is running the full so that will be a great visit/ run for us. We haven't seen each other in 5 years. I decided not run the full marathon with her because Chicago is 3 weeks later, and I didn't want to set myself up for injury or tire myself out.

I do most runs at Maff, and on some runs finish faster just for the fun of it. I'm real sorry I don't have numbers to share for all of you to analyze and help me out! However, I have done Maff for years and I enjoy running the *Maff Way* I ran my first marathon at Maff and it was easy and I had no problems after the marathon. So, since I haven't run a marathon in two years, I hope the same will occur!!

It's nice to read so many detailed running reports about Maff. I think it's a great way to run. I've never felt better!

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posted Jun-13-2006 07:29 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boston124:
Checking-in......on all the GREAT posts and how the Maffer's are doing. You all seem so dedicated and focused and should be proud of your base building and races/marathons/and in Jesse's case the EXTRA volume!!

I've continued to plug along but I'm not good at logging my daily mileage. I *kinda* (when I remember) jot on my calendar my average HR and how long I run each day. I have been finishing routes faster each week, and now run 6 days a week, and power-walk and bike ride one day a week. My runs are never shorter than an hour, and I do two hilly routes a week, one more hilly and longer than the other. I manage a long run of two hours....don't know the distance; sounds weird I know~

Anyway, I begin Chicago Marathon Training next Monday, and that's when I follow a mileage schedule and I'll have to follow the distance required. I also signed up for the Portland Maine 1/2 Marathon on Oct. 1st. My friend is running the full so that will be a great visit/ run for us. We haven't seen each other in 5 years. I decided not run the full marathon with her because Chicago is 3 weeks later, and I didn't want to set myself up for injury or tire myself out.

I do most runs at Maff, and on some runs finish faster just for the fun of it. I'm real sorry I don't have numbers to share for all of you to analyze and help me out! However, I have done Maff for years and I enjoy running the *Maff Way* I ran my first marathon at Maff and it was easy and I had no problems after the marathon. So, since I haven't run a marathon in two years, I hope the same will occur!!

It's nice to read so many detailed running reports about Maff. I think it's a great way to run. I've never felt better!

---

Hey Boston! Glad to see you back posting! Sounds like all is
going great. We forgive you for not posting your data. I know how
you feel about keeping all those records!

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posted Jun-13-2006 07:38 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by studiorex:
I am interested in base building using this method, but the one thing that I have not been able to ascertain is this...

It tells people to train below a certain bpm, but what's the bottom of the range? I know I am going to have to walk (or run VERY slowly) to keep under the threshold but when my heart rate goes down (which it does very quickly) when do I start up again?

---

When I started MAFF 5 years ago, I ran right at the HR....whatever your age is -180. It pulled me down to a 14 min. mile. It took many weeks and months to get the pace faster, but it worked! Hills were a challenge or any upgrade in the road because my HR would instantly rise. I did let it go but slowed down some just to keep things in some bit of a good aerobic range.

Just keep your HR, as best you can, at your MAFF HR. Lots of runners on this thread seem to go under that HR, like Jesse, who runs -5 or -10 under his MAFF HR. You can do that, I never have. It's all what you want out of MAFF. I think the approach is a wonderful way to run, but when I first began MAFFEONE, running right at MAFF was slow enough so I stayed right there!

Be consistent, run as much as you can without getting injured, and I think you will like this program. One HUGE benefit is that when you are finished running, you will feel good, like you could run again all over! It won't take but a few weeks that you will see results. Stick with it and good luck!!

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posted Jun-13-2006 07:43 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by leitnerj:

Hey Boston! Glad to see you back posting! Sounds like all is
going great. We forgive you for not posting your data. I know how
you feel about keeping all those records!

Hello, Jesse!

YUP....I'm just bad at that stuff! I've missed *talking* to you! I listened to that radio interview of yours, and it was sooo....GREAT! See, I did keep reading the thread! Gotta go and get my run now. I'll check-in tonight!

Kris

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posted Jun-13-2006 11:41 AM               

I have a question for you. I've only been running for about a month now and only a week at Maffetone royal slowness. To maintain my HR, I have to run SLOW (13:20-14:05 min/mi depending on temperature, etc.). When I try to run at anything slower than 12:00 min/mi, it's not even running, and my calves get sore and I can't relax, which spikes my HR. So what I've been doing is jogging at the slowest comfortable pace for about 100 meters, then switching to a brisk walk for 50, rinse and repeat. Anyone know if there is a problem with not running a consistent pace? (Edit: I reread the FAQ and #27 says I should be able to run slower. Are all you guys able to run as slow as you want? Is there any benefit to running slower than you can walk vs. just walking? And I HAVE given it the old "college try"!)

Not sure it's necessary, but I'm a 36 y/o male, 5'11", roughly 198 pounds. I can run 3 miles in about 28 minutes. Max HR I've tested is 180, but I have a slightly sprained quad from softball, so I think 184-185 is probably more accurate. Resting HR is 57. My Maffetone HR would be 180-36-5 = 139, but I'm running at 120-130 with an average of 127 just to be safe, based on all the reading I've done online.

My neighbors have already started to rib me about how slow I'm running, since they've seen me in the past. Might as well have some fun with it, so I encourage it

[This message has been edited by VikeKingDan (edited Jun-13-2006).]

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posted Jun-13-2006 11:57 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by VikeKingDan:
Aharmer is a friend of mine and convinced me to try this. Hello, first

I have a question for you. I've only been running for about a month now and only a week at Maffetone royal slowness. To maintain my HR, I have to run SLOW (13:20-14:05 min/mi depending on temperature, etc.). When I try to run at anything slower than 12:00 min/mi, it's not even running, and my calves get sore and I can't relax, which spikes my HR. So what I've been doing is jogging at the slowest comfortable pace for about 100 meters, then switching to a brisk walk for 50, rinse and repeat. Anyone know if there is a problem with not running a consistent pace? (Edit: I reread the FAQ and #27 says I should be able to run slower. Are all you guys able to run as slow as you want? Is there any benefit to running slower than you can walk vs. just walking? And I HAVE given it the old "college try"!)

Not sure it's necessary, but I'm a 36 y/o male, 5'11", roughly 198 pounds. I can run 3 miles in about 28 minutes. Max HR I've tested is 180, but I have a slightly sprained quad from softball, so I think 184-185 is probably more accurate. Resting HR is 57. My Maffetone HR would be 180-36-5 = 139, but I'm running at 120-130 with an average of 127 just to be safe, based on all the reading I've done online.

My neighbors have already started to rib me about how slow I'm running, since they've seen me in the past. Might as well have some fun with it, so I encourage it

[This message has been edited by VikeKingDan (edited Jun-13-2006).]

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Hey V.K.D. - simple - don't run at 127 - take it up to 139. You should
see improvement at that heart rate after several weeks and you can
target lower at that point. Nonetheless, it's no problem to mix in walking
as you build up your conditioning, but it's not even clear you have to do
that.

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posted Jun-13-2006 01:33 PM               

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posted Jun-14-2006 10:04 AM            

I also had to smile about the part of an easy run being 2:30-3:00 minute/mile slower than 5k race pace. I wish!!! Right now my marathon pace is 3:00mm slower than my old 5k race pace. So you can guess where that puts me as far as any easy run, and a BQ for that matter. Of course I will keep up the MAF training, but do you have any other suggestions for me? I have added weight training to my schedule. I’m still sore after doing squats on Monday! I have also started riding my bike. I am looking at the LV Marathon and really want to get my time down. I don’t know, maybe it would be in my better interest to run the new ½ instead. What are your thoughts?

Cathy

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posted Jun-14-2006 11:34 AM               

I'm currently building my base mileage at MAF HR, but I'm recovering from some nagging injuries so my mileage is low (currently 15 mpw down from 30 mpw) and it will take me a couple of months to get where I was before. In the meantime I'm biking several days a week at MAF HR. How much impact will biking at MAF 4-6 hours a week have on my running progress?

Thanks for the great thread.

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posted Jun-14-2006 07:19 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by StealthRunner:
Hi Jesse! I have a question for you. I was lurking on another thread on tri endurance training. (I’m a great lurker by the way) Anyway, what the heck is a “brick run”?

I also had to smile about the part of an easy run being 2:30-3:00 minute/mile slower than 5k race pace. I wish!!! Right now my marathon pace is 3:00mm slower than my old 5k race pace. So you can guess where that puts me as far as any easy run, and a BQ for that matter. Of course I will keep up the MAF training, but do you have any other suggestions for me? I have added weight training to my schedule. I’m still sore after doing squats on Monday! I have also started riding my bike. I am looking at the LV Marathon and really want to get my time down. I don’t know, maybe it would be in my better interest to run the new ½ instead. What are your thoughts?

Cathy

---

Hey Cathy - a brick run is a run immediately following a bike ride.
Simple as that. Good practice for a tri to get the feel for the bike-run
transition.

Many of my training runs are more than 4 minutes slower than my
5k pace, so take that as a data point, and don't assume anything in
there about a BQ based on that relationship. I don't know that I
can answer your question about whether the half or whole is better -
I would have to put myself in your shoes and see how I was feeling!
There's some advice that's best not coming from me (much of it
involving nutrition!) Now, you may just want to sprinkle in a half
and even some other races, just to get some other racing under
your belt - that should be a good thing!

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posted Jun-14-2006 07:39 PM            

Incidentally, according to Hadd, my easy run should be @115 bpm. I tried it and NOW, I understand what people are saying when they say MAF feels to slow.

I wonder: is a low max HR good, bad, or neutral?

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