| Author |
Topic: Low HR training/base-building ala Maffetone/Mark Allen |
Serious Runner
Cool Runner |
 posted Apr-25-2006 09:39 AM
  
quote:
Originally posted by hurryinhoosier:
Well, I wanted to do LT runs. I then read about doing 5 mile tempo runs. My most recent 5 mile tempo was as follows:
[b]
Sunday,
Apr 9, 2006Temp: 53
Jump to this week Running
Tempo run
5:15 pm
> Edit or delete 5 mile Tempo
5 miles
36:52 (7m 22s/mile) Weight: 170
Avg. HR:
164
2006 Saucony Triumph - Pair 1
Planned to be a LT run (~7:45) but was getting good times with HR around 165. Kept running at around 165 to see times I could get. Could have pushed hard but tried to pace self for 5 miles.
Splits:
7:20
7:00
7:33
7:27
7:29
I guess I am a little confused based on what I have read re: what is effective LT pace and when is the appropriate time to run faster paces (440 repeats @ 5k pace?) Wadda ya think?
[/B]
It tells me that your 5K PR is probably due for some serious revision. Congrats.
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jdl10128
Member |
posted Apr-25-2006 10:31 AM
Hi Leitnerj,
Thanks for the response. I haven't run in a while, but 10 is not my best. 1. I only need to maintain a pace for two miles. 2. I haven't done this in a while. I used to be able to hold just over 7 for a mile. 3. I ran a 5k and a 10k on stress fractures a couple of years ago I think the 5k was around 30 minutes and the 10k was a little over an hour. But I had three stress fractures at the time! 4. I'm not sure about this. Thanks for your reply![This message has been edited by jdl10128 (edited Apr-25-2006).]
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jjwaverly42
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-25-2006 10:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hurryinhoosier:
I guess I am a little confused based on what I have read re: what is effective LT pace and when is the appropriate time to run faster paces (440 repeats @ 5k pace?)Wadda ya think?
In Training For Endurance, Maffetone talks about anaerobic work: From Training For Endurance (Phillip Maffetone, Training For Endurance. (USA: David Barmore Productions 2000), Ch. 12 p. 95-101.): Once you have built sufficient aerobic base, your body may be ready to add anaerobic work... ...the main purpose is to build fast-twitch muscle fibers ...anaerobic workout can be risky and frequently the cause of overtraining, injuriies, fatigue, and poor performance. ...keep it simple, keep it short
...don't exceed 90% MHR
...my favorite recommendation for anaerobic workouts is fartlek... ..consider Mike Pigg's 1994 season--one of his best. He won most of his races and finished high up in most of the rest. He did not do any anaerobic work until mid-September, when most of his races were completed. ...When anaerobic training is included into your schedule, there are a few basic rules to follow: --Including races, do not exceed 2-3 anaerobic workouts per week --for many athletes, one anaerobic workout per week is sufficient --most athletes will reach anaerobic benefits after 3-4 weeks of anaerobic work **************************** As Jesse said, an LT run equates to 15k race pace, OR 76-88% HRR (top out at 88%). (Pfitzinger and Douglas , Advanced Marathoning) Vo2max intervals are at 3-5k pace or 93-98% HRR (Pfitzinger and Douglas , Advanced Marathoning). The V02max intervals are not supported by the Maffetone method. --Jimmy
My Running World
Current Training
[This message has been edited by jjwaverly42 (edited Apr-25-2006).]
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-25-2006 06:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jdl10128:
Hi Leitnerj,
Thanks for the response. I haven't run in a while, but 10 is not my best. 1. I only need to maintain a pace for two miles. 2. I haven't done this in a while. I used to be able to hold just over 7 for a mile. 3. I ran a 5k and a 10k on stress fractures a couple of years ago I think the 5k was around 30 minutes and the 10k was a little over an hour. But I had three stress fractures at the time! 4. I'm not sure about this. Thanks for your reply![This message has been edited by jdl10128 (edited Apr-25-2006).]
Ok, in order to see what you need to do, you'll need to test yourself
a bit otherwise, no one can even postulate a training regimen for you.
Over the next few days, I suggest you do the following: 1. head to the track or a measured course and run 1 mile, all out.
Be sure to warm up thoroughly first, perhaps with about 10-15 minutes
of easy jogging. Record the time and report it back here. If you are
faster than 7:30/mile, then you're in good shape - you'll just need to
get some mileage in and you may be able to hit 2 miles in under 16
within a month or so. 2. If your time is slower than 7:30/mile, get back out to the track
a couple of days later. Warm up thoroughly again. Run 400 meters,
all out again, as if in a race. Come back here and report your time. Then we can collectively figure out what to do next. ------------------
MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
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jdl10128
Member |
posted Apr-25-2006 11:47 PM
Hey Leitnerj,
I will get right to this. Thanks very much for the help.JD
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Tchuck
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-26-2006 11:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hurryinhoosier:
Well, I wanted to do LT runs. I then read about doing 5 mile tempo runs. My most recent 5 mile tempo was as follows:
[b]
Sunday,
Apr 9, 2006Temp: 53
Jump to this week Running
Tempo run
5:15 pm
> Edit or delete 5 mile Tempo
5 miles
36:52 (7m 22s/mile) Weight: 170
Avg. HR:
164
2006 Saucony Triumph - Pair 1
Planned to be a LT run (~7:45) but was getting good times with HR around 165. Kept running at around 165 to see times I could get. Could have pushed hard but tried to pace self for 5 miles.
Splits:
7:20
7:00
7:33
7:27
7:29
I guess I am a little confused based on what I have read re: what is effective LT pace and when is the appropriate time to run faster paces (440 repeats @ 5k pace?) Wadda ya think?
[/B]
Hurry, Per TINMAN, for 4-5 mile tempo runs, the most effective tempo pace is your 5K pace plus 1 min. For example, my 5K pace is 6:18, I run my 4-5 mile aerobic threshold tempo runs at 7:15-7:30 or around marathon pace which is at about 85% of my max HR. Or I do 3-4 1 mile intervals at 88% of max HR with 2 min. recoveries between. You can also make it a progressive tempo if you like. I sometimes pick it up that last mile to 88-90% of max HR. Last year, I also did a lot of hard intervals. Now, only once per week after my tempo work, I do 4 X 200M at a quick pace - faster than 5K pace. That's it! It is working big time. Most of my miles remain aerobic and I leave the racing for races. In the past, I used to do my tempos hard - around 15-20 seconds slower than 10K pace. I felt like every tempo run was a race. I had to push to keep pace. It took a bit longer to recover also. Well, this is Daniels way of doing tempos. Tinman is the new Daniels. In fact, in Daniels new book, he incorporates many of Tinmans training methods including a variance in tempo paces and the BIG 2 work outs for marathon training. See link below for discussion on this.
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/thee/vpost?id=1073242
This slower (yet still challenging) tempo pace (per Tinmans recommendation) for me is comfortable yet hard and leaves me feeling fit and invigorated. This is how tempo runs should leave you feeling - not beat up. It has helped me immensely. I already have PRd in a 5K this year knocking of 15 seconds off my last year's time (same miles per week) and I haven't peaked yet. I am excited to get PRs in a half marathon in 3 weeks and 10K a couple weeks after and more PRs in 5K later in year. Todd
------------------
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CSuzette
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-26-2006 04:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by balazsrauz:
Can base building be done with cross training ? It'd seem logical that 6-8 hours of hiking has at least the same cardiovascular benefit as a long run.
I know for me that hiking (or stair climbing) is critical to building leg strength and aerobic endurance. 10 years ago I did a lot of hiking and climbing with heavy packs on the weekends (I was 35 y.o.). During the week I might run 3 miles on a Wednesday (because I really did not like running...too much pain...9:30 training pace!) Anyway, I ran in a relay race with 5 mile and 3 mile legs, and I did 8:07 pace for 3 and 8:13 for 5. Not super speedy, but since my main conditioning was hiking and not running, kind of amazing. Right now I run 7 on Wed. and Friday and either 8 or 12 on Sunday. Monday off and do stair repeats of varying numbers and with varying amounts of pack weight. I seem to be getting faster and stronger!
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CSuzette
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-26-2006 04:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CSuzette:
I know for me that hiking (or stair climbing) is critical to building leg strength and aerobic endurance.10 years ago I did a lot of hiking and climbing with heavy packs on the weekends (I was 35 y.o.). During the week I might run 3 miles on a Wednesday (because I really did not like running...too much pain...9:30 training pace!) Anyway, I ran in a relay race with 5 mile and 3 mile legs, and I did 8:07 pace for 3 and 8:13 for 5. Not super speedy, but since my main conditioning was hiking and not running, kind of amazing. Right now I run 7 on Wed. and Friday and either 8 or 12 on Sunday. Monday off and do stair repeats of varying numbers and with varying amounts of pack weight on the other days. I seem to be getting faster and stronger!
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crb81
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-26-2006 08:52 PM
Jesse,
I did my VO2max test today and need some feedback. My aerobic threshold was 152 and my anaerobic threshold was 166. My peak VO2 was 65 and my VO2 at HR 166 was 46. Can you help me evaluate mthis? ------------------
Clay
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-26-2006 09:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by crb81:
Jesse,
I did my VO2max test today and need some feedback. My aerobic threshold was 152 and my anaerobic threshold was 166. My peak VO2 was 65 and my VO2 at HR 166 was 46. Can you help me evaluate mthis?
Hi Clay- Your vo2max is high, but the other numbers aren't of much significance,
at least on their own. The more interesting stuff associated with MAF
training would be the following: *RER values (sometimes called RQ or just R) at the following
heart rates: 180-age-5, 180-age, 180-age+5, 180-age+10 *Max heart rate *vo2@max heart rate *did they define your anaerobic threshold as the HR at which
RQ just hit 1? This is the info I get people to provide to me when they have
vo2max tests.
------------------
MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-26-2006 09:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tchuck:
Hurry,Per TINMAN, for 4-5 mile tempo runs, the most effective tempo pace is your 5K pace plus 1 min. For example, my 5K pace is 6:18, I run my 4-5 mile aerobic threshold tempo runs at 7:15-7:30 or around marathon pace which is at about 85% of my max HR. Or I do 3-4 1 mile intervals at 88% of max HR with 2 min. recoveries between. You can also make it a progressive tempo if you like. I sometimes pick it up that last mile to 88-90% of max HR. Last year, I also did a lot of hard intervals. Now, only once per week after my tempo work, I do 4 X 200M at a quick pace - faster than 5K pace. That's it! It is working big time. Most of my miles remain aerobic and I leave the racing for races. In the past, I used to do my tempos hard - around 15-20 seconds slower than 10K pace. I felt like every tempo run was a race. I had to push to keep pace. It took a bit longer to recover also. Well, this is Daniels way of doing tempos. Tinman is the new Daniels. In fact, in Daniels new book, he incorporates many of Tinmans training methods including a variance in tempo paces and the BIG 2 work outs for marathon training. See link below for discussion on this.
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/thee/vpost?id=1073242
This slower (yet still challenging) tempo pace (per Tinmans recommendation) for me is comfortable yet hard and leaves me feeling fit and invigorated. This is how tempo runs should leave you feeling - not beat up. It has helped me immensely. I already have PRd in a 5K this year knocking of 15 seconds off my last year's time (same miles per week) and I haven't peaked yet. I am excited to get PRs in a half marathon in 3 weeks and 10K a couple weeks after and more PRs in 5K later in year. Todd
This type of tempo pace makes a lot of sense. When running them
too hard (i.e., 10k race pace or 5k + 15 sec or so), you're likely to
spill over into lactate-land, burning yourself out and not training yourself
to dump the lactic acid faster than it is produced. It may be slightly
on the slower side, but it definitely should help push the LT up without
crashing in the middle or at the end. ------------------
MyRunningLog
MyStuff
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ
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crb81
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 02:07 AM
Your vo2max is high, but the other numbers aren't of much significance,
at least on their own. The more interesting stuff associated with MAF
training would be the following:*RER values (sometimes called RQ or just R) at the following
heart rates: 180-age-5, 180-age, 180-age+5, 180-age+10 *Max heart rate *vo2@max heart rate *did they define your anaerobic threshold as the HR at which
RQ just hit 1? This is the info I get people to provide to me when they have
vo2max tests. He said he only takes test to 85-90% maxHR. He went to 189. I have seen 196 without trying a max test, it was at end of a 5k race. RQ at aerobic threshold of HR 152 was .65 at VO2 of 33.5. RQ at anaerobic threshold of HR 166 was .81 at VO2 of 46. At HR 189 and peak VO2 of 65 RQ was .97. He didn't discuss RQ values. My plan is to go back to strict MAF training after relay marathon May 20th. I may repeat this test in September prior to beginning marathon training program. I think he might allow me to push closer to HR max next time. I can understand him not going there on a first test.
The VO2 of 46 at anaerobic threshold was consistent with Daniels tables based on race performances. What surprised me was the anaerobic threshold of 166. I thought it would be in the high 170's based on training runs and perceived effort. The last 2 miles of my last 5k were spent at at 177 to 196. I have been training at HR of 140 and 155 based on Hadd for this race with 2 afternoon tempo runs in the 170's. I will drop the pm runs down 10 beats. ------------------
Clay
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snowdogs
Member |
posted Apr-27-2006 06:19 AM
Hi Maffers,
I am a 41 F running for about 3 years for basic fitness/calorie expendature who has decided to try to improve my running, goals uncertain at this point, maybe a half marathon a year from now. I used to run most of my runs at 10:00/10:30 pace, HR probably 160's, less than 20 mpw. I've followed this thread and done some honest but I'm sure too brief attempts at Maff training with Maff HR 140. I started on the treadmill with a pace of 14:30 at 1% incline. Got down maybe to 13:30 before I'd get frustrated and quit. Running this slow, and having only about 1hr to run a day, I have been only able to get in 20-25 miles/week. I quit Maffing again two weeks ago and decided to try to slowly increase my milage but just "run easy". I have converted to running outside again and have been running 25 miles/week at 11:30 pace but with an average HR of 148-150, peaking close to 160-164 on each run (hilly).
I tried to do a MRH test yesterday, I did 3 miles at a faster pace than normal then ran up a 6-7% hill three times. Each time I peaked at 183 bpm. I don't know how close to my true MHR this is. I'm sure if someone was screaming at me or a bear was chasing me I could have gone harder, but I haven't been that out of breath since high school. I was also afraid I was going to pull something. I was really hoping my MHR would be higher. 70% of 183 in only 128 and 80% is only 146! My runs at 148 ave BPM feel comfortable, but this would seem to say they are WAY to fast for base building. 70% at 128 is less than my Maff!
If I continue to run as I am (higher HR), will I basically see no improvement in my aerobic base? Would increasing my mileage to 35miles/week at these higher heart rates benefit me such that if I go back to Maff there would be some improvement based on more mileage base? If I go back to Maff, do I need to decrease my Maff HR back to 130 which would completely suck. This is all so frustrating. Thanks for listening and any responses.
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jellybelly
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 09:02 AM
Hi. I have become a heart rate trainer by necessity.I developed a ventricular tachycardia and had an internal cardiac defibrillator implanted into my chest in November  Anyway, I figure I might look into this program and see if I can progress on it. Currently I jog to keep my hr in the 130's if possible. The highest I've ever seen my hr (in sinus rhythm)is 195 during a 5k that was about 2 1/2 years ago and I'm almost 47 years old. I read through the FAQ but I'm still not sure how to determine what my MAF training heart rate should be. This may be a perfect program for me because I have absolutely no running ego anymore. I am thrilled to be able to jog no matter how slowly and am perfectly content to walk up a hill to keep my hr down. Any responses would be sincerely appreciated. Barbara
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Serious Runner
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 09:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jellybelly:
Hi. I have become a heart rate trainer by necessity.I developed a ventricular tachycardia and had an internal cardiac defibrillator implanted into my chest in November Anyway, I figure I might look into this program and see if I can progress on it. Currently I jog to keep my hr in the 130's if possible. The highest I've ever seen my hr (in sinus rhythm)is 195 during a 5k that was about 2 1/2 years ago and I'm almost 47 years old. I read through the FAQ but I'm still not sure how to determine what my MAF training heart rate should be. This may be a perfect program for me because I have absolutely no running ego anymore. I am thrilled to be able to jog no matter how slowly and am perfectly content to walk up a hill to keep my hr down. Any responses would be sincerely appreciated. Barbara
Has your doctor put any limits on high he/she wants your HR to go? That would be the first thing I would do since you are in a unique situation. What limit did your doctor set the defibrillator at? My dad had one, and the doctor originially set it at 150. It knocked the crap out of my dad as he easy hit that while running on a t-mill. It was quite a shock to him (sorry for the pun). Seriously, find out what limit the doctor has for you and what the unit is set for. 180- your age won't do you any good if the doc has the unit set at 120 bpm.
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jellybelly
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 12:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Serious Runner:
Has your doctor put any limits on high he/she wants your HR to go? That would be the first thing I would do since you are in a unique situation. What limit did your doctor set the defibrillator at?My dad had one, and the doctor originially set it at 150. It knocked the crap out of my dad as he easy hit that while running on a t-mill. It was quite a shock to him (sorry for the pun). Seriously, find out what limit the doctor has for you and what the unit is set for. 180- your age won't do you any good if the doc has the unit set at 120 bpm.
My doc has given me plenty of wiggle room and set mine to shock me at 220 and I have he has put no limits on my running. I jogged today for 54 mins and timed one of the miles in 11:01 (ugh) and my hr average was 129 but hit 142 on an incline. So do you have any idea how I should determine my MAF training pace? Thanks.
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Serious Runner
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 01:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jellybelly:
My doc has given me plenty of wiggle room and set mine to shock me at 220 and I have he has put no limits on my running. I jogged today for 54 mins and timed one of the miles in 11:01 (ugh) and my hr average was 129 but hit 142 on an incline. So do you have any idea how I should determine my MAF training pace? Thanks.
MAF should be calculated at 180 minus your age. You'll want to keep your heartrate below that number. As I've said earlier in this thread, the quicker you reach that MAF rate, the slower your overall run will be. Don't get too upset with the 11:01 mile. First off, you're probably not in top shape since you've had the surgery. In addition, I'm a guy who likes to run at 7:30 pace (at my absolute slowest). However, I also knew that I wasn't in good aerobic shape, and that was proven when I saw some miles in the 10+ minute range on my runs. It's gotten better, and it will for you as well.
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 06:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by crb81:
He said he only takes test to 85-90% maxHR. He went to 189. I have seen 196 without trying a max test, it was at end of a 5k race. RQ at aerobic threshold of HR 152 was .65 at VO2 of 33.5. RQ at anaerobic threshold of HR 166 was .81 at VO2 of 46. At HR 189 and peak VO2 of 65 RQ was .97. He didn't discuss RQ values. My plan is to go back to strict MAF training after relay marathon May 20th. I may repeat this test in September prior to beginning marathon training program. I think he might allow me to push closer to HR max next time. I can understand him not going there on a first test.
The VO2 of 46 at anaerobic threshold was consistent with Daniels tables based on race performances. What surprised me was the anaerobic threshold of 166. I thought it would be in the high 170's based on training runs and perceived effort. The last 2 miles of my last 5k were spent at at 177 to 196. I have been training at HR of 140 and 155 based on Hadd for this race with 2 afternoon tempo runs in the 170's. I will drop the pm runs down 10 beats.
Ok, I'm always concerned about these "sub-maximal" vo2max tests
because they are missing many of the checks that indicate that
all went properly. Also, I really don't understand the aerobic threshold
and anaerobic threshold numbers. While there is some variance in
these definitions, the anaerobic threshold is usually pretty clear - it's
the point beyond which you are completely anaerobic, using 100%
carb for fuel (which means that RQ = 1). Given that RQ = .81 at
what he called your AT, it is very strange, since 0.81 indicates
65% fat/35% carb, which is highly aerobic. The most critical
parameters to see how you are training your aerobic system, at
least in my opinion, both from my own experiences, those I've
seen with others, and those that I have read, are the RQ values
at the range of heart rates. RQ of 0.65 is meaningless data (from
what I know, which perhaps isn't much). The
lowest meaningful value is 0.707, which corresponds to 0% carb,
100% fat burn, which you would never obtain while running. Any
RQ values outside of the .707 to 1 range are really just noise, at least
based on what I know. I guess I'd have to see what definitions
that your tester used for AeT and AT. It's also surprising not to
see the entire RQ data set for your test.
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 06:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by snowdogs:
If I continue to run as I am (higher HR), will I basically see no improvement in my aerobic base? Would increasing my mileage to 35miles/week at these higher heart rates benefit me such that if I go back to Maff there would be some improvement based on more mileage base? If I go back to Maff, do I need to decrease my Maff HR back to 130 which would completely suck. This is all so frustrating. Thanks for listening and any responses.
Everyone is unique. Many people develop their aerobic systems
without strictly low HR running. Many do not. The key thing (I
believe) that it depends on is what your range of respiratory quotients
are at your range of heart rates (levels of exertion). Good luck in
finding that info! Generally you'd get this from a vo2max test, but
if you read the other post, apparently not always! The RQ values
tell you how much fat vs carb you are burning while running. Maffetone's
formula estimates, based on empirical data from many runners,
the maximum heart rate at which you can run and still be over a certain
high percentage of fat for fuel (unfortunately, I don't know exactly what
that percentage is - I've been guessing it's 50-75%). Maffetone and
Hadd both suggest that if you absolutely cannot run at the low aerobic
HR, start at one 10-15 beats higher or so, stay below that, and see if
it will come down. The only way to find out is to give it a try. Some
have apparently been successful with that approach and I would guess
that it does depend on their particular RQ range. ------------------
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 07:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jellybelly:
Hi. I have become a heart rate trainer by necessity.I developed a ventricular tachycardia and had an internal cardiac defibrillator implanted into my chest in November Anyway, I figure I might look into this program and see if I can progress on it. Currently I jog to keep my hr in the 130's if possible. The highest I've ever seen my hr (in sinus rhythm)is 195 during a 5k that was about 2 1/2 years ago and I'm almost 47 years old. I read through the FAQ but I'm still not sure how to determine what my MAF training heart rate should be. This may be a perfect program for me because I have absolutely no running ego anymore. I am thrilled to be able to jog no matter how slowly and am perfectly content to walk up a hill to keep my hr down. Any responses would be sincerely appreciated. Barbara
I think seriousrunner gave some good advice. Sorry for the confusion-
the FAQ assumes that you've read and understand at least one or
two of the links that are listed in item 2. I'd suggest you read at least
one of the Maffetone or Mark Allen links in there. ------------------
MyRunningLog
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Cashmason
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-27-2006 07:04 PM
Hi Jelly, I remember you from your Boomer threads.Maf would have you running at 180 - your age- minus 10 for your health concerns. Sounds like about 123 beats per minute for you. At first this will make you run very slowly, maybe even walk a bit. This is normal and after a while you will be running faster at the same heart rate. Its very frustrating at first. Any hills or bridges you will definately have to walk to keep your hr low. As it warms up in your part of the country, you will have to run slower too, because heat will raise your heart rate too. You don't get any extra heart beats for medicines you take or heat. Also maybe drink your coffee after a run, because even drinking a soda for me before a run raises my running heart beat a few beats per minute. I am really glad to see you still running. You have a lot of courage. Best wishes. Cash
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jellybelly
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-28-2006 09:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Cashmason:
Hi Jelly, I remember you from your Boomer threads.I am really glad to see you still running. You have a lot of courage. Best wishes. Cash
I don't know if I have a lot of courage or if I'm crazy but my life is just not complete without running. I have to keep trying. Of course, if I had to choose breathing or running, I would choose life... but if there is a possibility that I can have both, I have to try. Thanks for your encouragement. I will read up on this Maffetone training. I'm excited about it. I'll actually be training while I'm slogging along. YAY! Barbara
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-30-2006 03:24 PM
It can be done. But it hurts! I'll post a race report in the
run & race reports section, but I did indeed confirm that one
can qualify for Boston without speed work. Two weeks ago,
while I was feeling good in one of my MAF training runs, it
occurred to me that I was in better shape than when I ran
3:19 a month or so ago, so I signed up on the fly for the
Frederick Marathon. I thought if there was any right time,
this was it. Here's what I did:6:41/154, 6:53/163, 6:55/164, 6:52/165, 6:59/167,
6:54/167, 7:16/168, 7:03/168, 7:26/167, 7:08/167,
7:07/167, 7:19/168, 7:10/168, 7:10/170, 7:16/169,
7:17/171, 7:23/170, 7:25/173, 7:26/170, 7:30/173,
7:25/175, 7:30/176, 7:23/176, 7:29/177, 7:51/178,
8:06/180, 3:38(7:31/mile)/178 Took a wrong turn around mile 15 and had to backtrack,
which added a good .2 mile or so. Oh well. I passed
the 26.2 mile mark on my GPS at 3:10. And, oh yeah,
this one hurt. I'm used to backing off at mile 20 or so,
and going with the flow. Today, I held as steadfast
at possible and decided to target a higher heart rate
(nothing specific, just pushing it a bit). Average HR
was 170. I run most of my runs at around 139, give or
take 1 or 2 beats. ------------------
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hurryinhoosier
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-30-2006 03:44 PM
...Average HR
was 170. ...Is there anything wrong with having an average HR higher than 170ish in a run if my max is around 189? I have been trying to give it my all so to speak but don't want to hurt myself. I know that I have averaged 145 BPM in training and am not in as good aerobic shape as you. In two races I basically run hard and let my stomach (nausea) tell me when to slow pace down. Basically keep a target pace in mind and go from there.
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leitnerj
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posted Apr-30-2006 03:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by hurryinhoosier:
[b] ...Average HR
was 170. ...Is there anything wrong with having an average HR higher than 170ish in a run if my max is around 189? I have been trying to give it my all so to speak but don't want to hurt myself. I know that I have averaged 145 BPM in training and am not in as good aerobic shape as you. In two races I basically run hard and let my stomach (nausea) tell me when to slow pace down. Basically keep a target pace in mind and go from there. [/B]
Why not? Nothing wrong with that. Also, keep in mind that this was
a marathon, so if it were a shorter race and I would have pushed,
and the average would have been higher. My lactate threshold is around
177, so I keep that in mind. My max heart rate is 210, but it's of little
value other than in the last mile or two, just to know how much you've
got left. Once you're over LT, it's all in how much pain you can endure
for how long! There's not a whole lot you can do in a long race with
the fully anaerobic heart beats between LT and max. ------------------
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