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Is receiving water from someone who is not entered in a race, cheating?

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Author	Topic: Is receiving water from someone who is not entered in a race, cheating?
JasonsDrivingForce Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 09:38 AM Is receiving water from someone who is not entered in a race, cheating? I have my marathon coming up in a week and I am still debating on how to stay hydrated. I typically run with water bottles in my hands. However, the water bottles tend to make my hands very cold on longer runs. My hands were almost frostbitten by the end of my last run. So is it considered cheating if I have someone who is not in the race hand me water during the race? If you think about it the elite runners get to place their own water bottles at each water stop, so why shouldn’t I be able to do the same? Would you consider a BQ tainted if that person received water from someone not in a race? ------------------ My Profile IP: Logged
RunForFun Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 09:43 AM What's wrong with the water the race is providing. My vote would be for you to have the person hand you the bottle pretty close to designated aide stations. If you get aide between designated aide stations it puts you at an unfair advantage. A RD may have a different opinion, but I have done a couple of marathons where that was the rule - You can get something not provided by the race handed to you only at designated aide stations. IP: Logged
crunningman Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 09:46 AM Unless it states that you can't receive outside aid while out on the course than I see no reason why you can't. Heck, I've seen people handing out stuff at Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Houston, etc. and runners gladly accept it. IP: Logged
JasonsDrivingForce Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 09:48 AM quote: Originally posted by RunForFun: What's wrong with the water the race is providing. My vote would be for you to have the person hand you the bottle pretty close to designated aide stations. If you get aide between designated aide stations it puts you at an unfair advantage. A RD may have a different opinion, but I have done a couple of marathons where that was the rule - You can get something not provided by the race handed to you only at designated aide stations. Good advice. The problem with the water at the aid stations is that I just can not get the hang of drinking out of Dixie cups. I have tried the scrunch method and all of that. It just doesn’t work for me. However, drinking out of the water bottle works very well. I will check to see what the races rule for receiving outside aid at designated areas is. ------------------ My Profile IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 10:01 AM I have no problem whatsoever with this sort of thing but there sure a lot of people who would cry about it. As long as the substance is legal and the person receiving the water has to do the running I see nothing wrong with it. How in the world this could be considered "cheating" I'll never, ever understand. IP: Logged
PacerChris Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 10:07 AM good grief, if a BQ is what you're going after I doubt anyone will cry foul if you get water from someone not in the race. I don't even see the issue with elites getting water from outside sources (provided EVERYONE has a fair crack at it)...now someone jumping in and pacing an elite is a different matter. But if a BQ is what you're going after, I wouldn't worry at all about it. IP: Logged
Jim Sullivan Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 10:10 AM I sure hope it's not cheating, because my club has our own table at the 30K mark in Boston, where our runners can have their favorite beverages waiting for them. Nobody has ever complained, and we also have water and Gatorade for everybody else. IP: Logged
GeekRunner Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 10:13 AM If the race is crowded, your friend with the water bottle might not see you. Or he or she might not be able to get there at the right time due to street closures, crowded subways, etc. If you're counting on water from your friend, you should have him or her stand a bit before an official aid station so you'll have the option of using Dixie cups if you miss your friend. IP: Logged
Brian McN Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 10:15 AM My opinion is it only really matters if you are in the prize money otherwise I don't see any issues with it. IP: Logged
kzod Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 10:19 AM Technically, It's against the rules of all races to receive outside assistance. In the real world, no one cares unless you are competing to place in your age division (or accidentally place without realizing how strong you are on that day). Other than that, it's one step below wearing your %^#& ipod while running. It's not sanctioned, you may get some dirty looks, but so far a DQ is unlikely. IP: Logged
JasonsDrivingForce Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 11:07 AM Thanks for your help. I checked the waiver, website, and forums and there was nothing prohibiting it so I think I will go for it. If I miss the hand off then I will just stop and fill the water bottles by hand at the aid station. Thanks again. ------------------ My Profile IP: Logged
jpgarland Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 01:41 PM It's against USAT&F rules. (Rule 144, check it out.) It's also unfair. Why? It gives one runner an advantage that his competitors do not have. You can carry whatever you can at the start (watches, HRMs, etc.), but once you're on the road, you're on your own. It's a race and everyone should be on the same page. An example, in New York in 2006, someone came out at mile 22 and gave a guy ahead of me a can with something to drink. I'm racing against this guy. Why should he get help? Same thing about someone pacing someone to the finish. Riding a bike next to someone? Allowing elites to put their own drinks on a table ahead of time is something I can accept because I'm not really competing with them. But, Jim Sullivan, if one of your guys beat me narrowly after getting his special drink at 30K, I would complain to the RD. This come up periodically. I find it hard to understand why people find it so difficult to get. It's a competition, there are rules, and they should be followed. And just learn how to drink from a cup on the course. IP: Logged
mutthound Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 01:42 PM I just assume that the race director "deputizes" everyone on the race course to be a water handerouter. Now if you have someone at 15 miles with a syringe full of steroids and shoots it into your gloots, then I say "foul" [This message has been edited by mutthound (edited Nov-30-2007).] IP: Logged
Runaround Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 02:20 PM Why not run with a bottle holster? I've run with them in hot and cold weather and I don't even know it's there. It's not something that takes much getting used to either. You could always just chuck it if it's bothering you. I know you don't wish to try something new on race day but isn't a little late to be asking this question??? I think taking anything from anyone other than race personnel is cheating. Does it bother me....No. But I do think it's cheating. [This message has been edited by Runaround (edited Nov-30-2007).] IP: Logged
lioness1 Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 02:56 PM A lot of people seem to like the Camelback water carriers, as they're carried like a backpack with a strawlike tube you use for sipping--that might be an option. They hold a lot of water too, so you can bypass water stops and gain a greater advantage than stopping and looking around for your bud. On marathons that I've run, I've stopped once or twice to exchange hugs with family members, thus getting a fresh burst of energy. I wonder if that has given me an unfair advantage over the unhugged. IP: Logged
bizenyaki Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 04:44 PM quote: Originally posted by mutthound: INow if you have someone at 15 miles with a syringe full of steroids and shoots it into your gloots, then I say "foul" Darn it. So much for the strategy I had for my first marathon next year. ------------------ My User Profile IP: Logged
aurang Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 05:27 PM quote: Originally posted by crunningman: Unless it states that you can't receive outside aid while out on the course than I see no reason why you can't. I don't that quite holds. If there's no explicit rule against cutting the course and I run a third of the distance and finish first, I've actually won? IP: Logged
RunForFun Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 06:57 PM Jim Sullivan - Can I be a honorary member - I would like to have a king can of Old Style on the table. IP: Logged
Southern Man Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 07:45 PM I'm usually a "rules are rules" kind of person but I would have no complaint with somebody handing you a water bottle. Heck, in my one and only marathon I know I took some aid from some unofficial stations but honestly at that point in the race I couldn't distinguish between official stations and people handing our stuff in front of their house. Southern Man ------------------ We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along. IP: Logged
Ken Camet Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 08:21 PM quote: Originally posted by Southern Man: I'm usually a "rules are rules" kind of person but I would have no complaint with somebody handing you a water bottle. Heck, in my one and only marathon I know I took some aid from some unofficial stations but honestly at that point in the race I couldn't distinguish between official stations and people handing our stuff in front of their house. Southern Man You were pretty harsh in the 'running someone in thread'. I guess you are the ultimate arbiter of what rules are OK to break. I'll make sure to check with you in the future in case you change your mind. IP: Logged
Southern Man Cool Runner	posted Nov-30-2007 08:27 PM quote: Originally posted by Ken Camet: You were pretty harsh in the 'running someone in thread'. I guess you are the ultimate arbiter of what rules are OK to break. I'll make sure to check with you in the future in case you change your mind. I'm no sort of arbiter, just another runner with an opinion. Sorry if I offended you in the other thread. Southern Man ------------------ We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along. IP: Logged
RunForFun Cool Runner	posted Dec-01-2007 09:37 AM I think getting a bottle of water near the aid station or even not near the aid station is a misdemenor. Someone jumping on onto the middle or end of the course to run someone in is a Felony IMHO By running in I do not mean kids jogging the last 200 yards with their parents. Although I have seen it blow up for people - at 15 in marathon someone jumps in and the person picks up their pace by 10-15 seconds per mile with the fresh person. I then pass them as they walk at mile #23 as they were extra crispy. IP: Logged
hopper3011 Cool Runner	posted Dec-01-2007 10:16 AM quote: Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce: Is receiving water from someone who is not entered in a race, cheating? Technically yes - from the IAAF regulations: quote: An athlete who collects refreshment from a place other than the refreshment stations renders himself liable to disqualification. Does the fact that lots of people do it mean that it's not "cheating"? IMO, no. Would I lodge a complaint against someone I saw doing it? No. IP: Logged
lioness1 Cool Runner	posted Dec-01-2007 09:06 PM quote: Originally posted by hopper3011: [QUOTE]Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce: [b]Is receiving water from someone who is not entered in a race, cheating? Technically yes - from the IAAF regulations: quote: An athlete who collects refreshment from a place other than the refreshment stations renders himself liable to disqualification. Does the fact that lots of people do it mean that it's not "cheating"? IMO, no. Would I lodge a complaint against someone I saw doing it? No.[/B][/QUOTE] I've heard of this rule, and I'm curious whether its rationale is that the extra refreshments in themselves are the concern or the possibility that these refreshments could have some banned substance in them? I admit to having accepted beer at an unofficial beer stop at the Philly Marathon. But I don't know that beer could be classified as performance enhancing. IP: Logged
mahanska00 Cool Runner	posted Dec-01-2007 10:51 PM This, in my opinion, is a ridiculous issue for 99.9% of all runners. For the 10 people who have a chance to win the event, let the rules reign. For me, a 3:19 marathoner, do you think I care if someone hands out an extra Gu to the person next to me. Wow, anyone who has a problem with this needs to get a reality check. IP: Logged

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