posted Aug-05-2007 09:21 PM               

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posted Aug-05-2007 11:28 PM               

Does anyone else find this tool off?

It said my 800 should be 2:30....which I am right on, but my 3k should be 11:01, and I ran 11:16 this past season.

Has anyone else found that this calculator is not accurate once the distance starts to increase?

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posted Aug-06-2007 07:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by redrodeo:
This past outdoor season my mile PR was 5:32. I raced the 5k shortly after and ran 19:52, however McMillan predicts me to be 19:13.

Does anyone else find this tool off?

It said my 800 should be 2:30....which I am right on, but my 3k should be 11:01, and I ran 11:16 this past season.

Has anyone else found that this calculator is not accurate once the distance starts to increase?

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It can be off if you are not trained for the farther distance.
I have run a mile in 5:50 and a 5k in 20:17. McMillan cals you should run a 5:46 mile to run a 20"00 5k.

Marathon it says I should be 3:17 I think...no way I could get anywhere close to that today. Perhaps 3:35 would be my time?

You should be around 19:13 with a little more miles though.

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posted Aug-06-2007 07:48 AM            

You beat my PR by 2 seconds.Too bad you don't have a 2nd mile split that would tell you alot. My toughest section of a race is usually between 1.5 mile to 2 mile mark.

I like to be in the low 6:20s for mile one.
I would have to agree the 6:09 got you unless that was downhill portion. Your average race time was about 6:32 per mile.

You should schedule a few more 5ks this fall. I think you can knock it out soon with your training but you just need to race a few of these (maybe when its a little cooler?)

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posted Aug-06-2007 12:29 PM               

I am deticated enough to put in the miles but I think I limit myself mentally. I am working on pushing even more when it starts to hurt. I have been training to the EXTERME this summer so hopefully it will pay off this year!

By the way....I run cross country and track in college. This past year I only ran track...so I was a little behind everyone when it came to distance. This fall will be my first college XC season. I have been following the schedule my coach gave us for the summer. My mileage peaked at 60mpw, but averages 50-60. We do distance MWF then long intervals on Tuesday, short speed on Thursday, and tempo on Saturday. Sunday is off.

I just hope it all pays off this year!

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posted Aug-06-2007 07:12 PM            

Good luck in college XC this fall, Redrodeo, if you have time keep us informed how it is going.

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posted Aug-06-2007 08:35 PM            

1: 6:18
2: 12:35
3: 18:55
5k: 19:35

I might get a pair of racing flats for my next 10k in October, I don't want to test them out on a half marathon in September, but want to make sure I can try them out when I finally attempt a marathon in November.

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posted Aug-08-2007 09:40 AM            

I am gaining the confidence that August will be my month to "knock the bast*** off" as Roger Bannister tried to do to the 4 minute mile (pardon the language).

I have a 5k trail race on Sunday. I am not looking to break 20 there just run for placing so I hope this helps me run more relaxed. I would be giddy with anything under 20:30 at a trail run.

I have upped the miles the past 2 weeks (50 and 40 mile weeks) and this week sit at 23 miles halfway through the week. I am not even thinking about tapering anymore. I just notice that my body is getting stronger and fitter.

I plan on getting some racing flats and going to the track if they ever open it back up for me and knocking a sub 20 off this month. The ultimate goal is a sub 20 in a 5k race but you cannot pick the weather or your mood for those efforts. Plus pacing is only given a few times in a 5k.

I now know I am in shape to beat 20 and that is the KEY as to why I will break 20. Also if I don't happen to break 20 on the track but say I run a 20:20 I will not be concerned at all. I will just up the miles from 40 to 45 and attempt it again. I cannot get slower on more miles. Its coming soon. Then maybe I will go to the sub 40 thread.

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posted Aug-08-2007 12:46 PM               

Also, according to the following news article, you have the knock the monkey off your head not back:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070808/ap_on_fe_st/odd_monkey_on_a_plane_4

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posted Aug-08-2007 09:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
Well I hope to be graduating from this thread soon.

I am gaining the confidence that August will be my month to "knock the bast*** off" as Roger Bannister tried to do to the 4 minute mile (pardon the language).

I have a 5k trail race on Sunday. I am not looking to break 20 there just run for placing so I hope this helps me run more relaxed. I would be giddy with anything under 20:30 at a trail run.

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I think you can do it Sunday morning. It's a trail run, but it's fairly flat (not like the Bath run this last Sunday). I think Gerard is going to be there, maybe just decide to stick with him for as long as you can.

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posted Aug-09-2007 11:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kahkah:
I think you can do it Sunday morning. It's a trail run, but it's fairly flat (not like the Bath run this last Sunday). I think Gerard is going to be there, maybe just decide to stick with him for as long as you can.

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I just don't want to be disapointed with a poor mile split.I see you were only 20 seconds slower on this run last year vs. Ele's Race. But I compared other runners times on the 2 courses last year and they were on average 42 seconds slowed on the trail run than they were on Ele's Race. I don't know if there was poor race conditions that race day last year or what but that is quite a time difference.

If I finish 42 seconds slower than Ele's Race, that would give me a time of 21:04 based on my 20:22 at Ele's Race. That is why I said if I get under 20:30 I would be giddy.

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posted Aug-12-2007 10:13 AM               

My question to you guys is: Why are you whining about sub 20 minute 5Ks? This guy doesn't even race and says he can do a 5k in 19 minutes, so it must be pretty easy (BTW, I have been training all summer and would be thrilled with a 24min 5k, but thats besides the point)

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posted Aug-12-2007 01:05 PM               

I did 12 today w/ a friend training for a M, so it was about 9:20 mm. Easy run but Extremely hilly!

I did a tempo this week 1.6 mile warm up, 2 mile tempo (7:42, 7:35) 4:30 rest, 2 mile tempo (7: 24, 7:26) 1 mile cooldown.

coming back is more downhill, while the first two miles are slightly uphill w/ mile 2 having a good size hill.

Question: I was told my tempo pace should be 7:47. (a chart a coach I know has) How much of a deviation is ok? I am feeling strong. I run hard but not too hard. I could sustain the pace longer if I had to. This is only the third time I have run a true tempo run.

Progman: It is a goal and we all are trying to help each other. There is no whining when it comes to running.

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posted Aug-12-2007 02:35 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by progman2000:
Excuse me for jumping into this thread, I just had to relate a story to you guys. I was at a party yesterday where I saw a bunch of college friends I had not seen in a while (I am 39 yrs old). One of these guys was at least 50 lbs overweight the last time I saw him and had obviously lost weight. I started talking to him and he offered up that "he had been running a whole lot lately" (note: he brough up running, not me). I have run 6 races over the summer and am training for a HM in September, so my obvious question was "Have you done any road races?". His response was something along the lines of: "no, I have not done any road races, and I know I couldn't do a HM. I am more of a speed guy. I know if I ran a 5K I could be competitive and could probably run one in 19 minutes". Somewhere in this strange conversation he also said he typically runs at a 8 min mile pace which was really fast, not really sure how that translates to the 19min 5K but ok.

My question to you guys is: Why are you whining about sub 20 minute 5Ks? This guy doesn't even race and says he can do a 5k in 19 minutes, so it must be pretty easy (BTW, I have been training all summer and would be thrilled with a 24min 5k, but thats besides the point)

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In the race I ran today 20 of 225 runners ran a time under 20:00. For some people it is easier (to run a sub 20) than others. Believe me if it was easy I would have done so along time ago.

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posted Aug-12-2007 03:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by progman2000:
Excuse me for jumping into this thread, I just had to relate a story to you guys. I was at a party yesterday where I saw a bunch of college friends I had not seen in a while (I am 39 yrs old). One of these guys was at least 50 lbs overweight the last time I saw him and had obviously lost weight. I started talking to him and he offered up that "he had been running a whole lot lately" (note: he brough up running, not me). I have run 6 races over the summer and am training for a HM in September, so my obvious question was "Have you done any road races?". His response was something along the lines of: "no, I have not done any road races, and I know I couldn't do a HM. I am more of a speed guy. I know if I ran a 5K I could be competitive and could probably run one in 19 minutes". Somewhere in this strange conversation he also said he typically runs at a 8 min mile pace which was really fast, not really sure how that translates to the 19min 5K but ok.

My question to you guys is: Why are you whining about sub 20 minute 5Ks? This guy doesn't even race and says he can do a 5k in 19 minutes, so it must be pretty easy (BTW, I have been training all summer and would be thrilled with a 24min 5k, but thats besides the point)

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Don't always believe in what they said. A young friend of mine said he was a lot slower and probably would be running as slow as a 40 min 10k. Well, he tried a 5k later and finished in 22:30. Kids like to brag here. Don't buy everything they say.

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posted Aug-12-2007 03:27 PM               

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010439.shtml

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posted Aug-12-2007 04:28 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tawanda101:
Question: I was told my tempo pace should be 7:47. (a chart a coach I know has) How much of a deviation is ok? I am feeling strong. I run hard but not too hard. I could sustain the pace longer if I had to. This is only the third time I have run a true tempo run.

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Most calculators give a range when suggesting pace. With all the variables (hills, heat, weather, how you feel, etc), sometimes it is not good to try for a certain pace. I think the "effort level" is what you want to try find when working your tempo pace.

Here is one of the most popular calculators. It is important to enter a current race NOT your goal time!

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

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posted Aug-12-2007 04:30 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer2:
Pretty pleased with my 5k today in 20:24.
See race report at:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010439.shtml

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Nice race and report Michigan. It seems we are running about the same pace.

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posted Aug-12-2007 07:14 PM               

The first 1.8 miles I felt terrific. I don't understand how my 2nd mile was so slow. I don't think I ran the 1st mile too fast. It was quite comfortable with nothing that resembled a hard effort.

I did not feel that I ran fast today at all. I feel very good about today's race. I can see that running a sub 20 does not mean that you have to gut it out, just that you must distribute effort evenly throughout and increase your fitness level to the point where you can run faster with the same effort as previous races.

SO looking at my last 3 five ks with very similar times and showing mile splits:

20:17 (6:24, 6:43, 6:36)

Race 1... I made an effort in mile one to run hard for mile one. When I got to the 1st mile I remember fearing that I had gone out too fast. I tried to stay with a female masters runner and that helped me keep from dying on mile 2, the last mile was quite tough)

20:22 (6:34, 6:44, 6:28)

Race 2...I was aiming for 3 straight 6:30 miles. I didn't feel right at the start of the race. I had run a 5k test race in 22:56 the day before and had ended my warmup before this race about 35 minutes before race time. I didnt feel good almost the entire race.

20:24 (6:29, 6:48, 6:31)...I just ran relaxed on mile one. I held my pace to what I assumed was comfortably fast before I found a fellow racer who is very close in talent to me and I paced off him until the 1.5 mile mark. I felt great the first 60% of race...always knowing I had something left to end the race with...the key may be I ended my warmup 13 minutes before race start. I only ran 15 minutes warmup. In the past I had ended warmup 20 minutes before start until Race 2 above when I tried a very early warmup which didn't seem to reap results.

*********
So finding someone to pace behind also seems to be very important. Someone who is going a constant pace similar to you. I knew the guy in front of me was a very good runner for the 1st two miles of races so I latched on to him and it took away the thinking part of running. You just follow the guy in front of you. Once I passed my pacer today at the halfway mark is when things seemed to go downhill somewhat. I was alone about 10 seconds behind the next runner.

My key week of race now includes (this is what seems to work best so far)

5 days before race: 3X1K at just slower than race pace with 1 minute rest...then 3 X 200 meters at 1 mile race pace.

4 days before race...4 miles easy

3 days before race.... 4 miles easy

2 days before race....REST day

day before race....4 miles easy 24 hours before race.

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posted Aug-12-2007 08:42 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Tawanda101:
Progman: It is a goal and we all are trying to help each other. There is no whining when it comes to running.

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I apologize, you misunderstood me, I was joking. The point of my story is this guy is an ass, he was greatly oversimplifying the task of doing a sub 20 min 5k. I don't think you guys are whining, I am a LOOOOOONG way from breaking that feat myself, I just think it's funny when a non runner tells you how easy it is to do a sub 20 5k.

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posted Aug-13-2007 12:35 AM            

I do 5 mile + 3 mile tempo run every Tue, and also usually one interval runs every week. Today, I tried the CV workout that a lot of people recommended. I did 8x1/2 miles, as follows:

Warmup
1st 1/2 mile 3:21, 1:30 rest
2nd 1/2 mile 3:18, 1:30 rest
3rd 1/2 mile 3:19, 1:30 rest
4th 1/2 mile 3:19, 1:30 rest
5th 1/2 mile 3:17, 1:30 rest
6th 1/2 mile 3:18, restroom break
7th 1/2 mile 3:18, 1:30 rest
8th 1/2 mile 3:15

I then also did 4x200m at about 40 sec

Normally, I ran my intervals a bit faster (3:05 to 3:08), but also took longer recover (a jog of 1/4 for about 3 min or so). So, today I am slowing down a bit to make sure I can finish the workout. I think I can easily shorten the rest or increase the pace as I didn't feel tired after these intervals at all.

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posted Aug-13-2007 01:23 AM            

#1.There are a great many regulars and visibility is good so you can really get some good pacing help even if no-one is doing your exact pace. There are often some strong runners doing the 10k and 15k who do a nice steady 20 min 5k pace.

#2. The start is always too fast. Check your pace at the 1/2 mile mark. As you come out on the main road, you pass a path on the right after a few yards and the 1/2 mile mark is the third street tree after this path! If you are going too fast here slow down or you will suffer on mile 3.

#3. I'm convinced the course is not as fast as it looks from a map inspection. A 20:30 here may close to a 20 on a fast course. everyone I've spoken to finds the third mile tough but no-one seems to know why, the 'hill' is barely worthy of the name. I'd managed a 19:15 on a track on my own before I managed a sub-20 at Lake Merritt. Having said that I like the course and the race, just consider it all a bonus in the bank for when you start on the sub-40 10k chase!

If you are doing a different race then just ignore me.......

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posted Aug-13-2007 06:44 AM            

Gang -- sorry I've been absent for a while, vacation and all that jazz. Nice to see some new people cropping up.

No races for me of late; goal 5k is in mid-September. Weather in Ky. has been ridiculous, hovering around 100 last week and this one. Makes it hard to train much, but I'm trying.

Did my first-ever 20 miler on Saturday, and I am paying for it. Quads are incredibly sore. And, one girl in my group was scheduled to do some tempo at MP during the run, so we ran to a 5k race and used that as our tempo. I cruised along easy, having already run 10.5 miles and knowing I had 6.5 more after the race before I was back to my car. Still finished in 22:10 easily.

I'm hoping temperatures drop; at speed night last week it was 101 at 7 p.m., which made me incapable of running a sub-1:45 400. It just couldn't be done. I really want to step up my speed and tempo work, but I'm afraid to do it in this heat. So slow and steady for now, and hopefully it gets better.

Great work, Michigan, and everybody else!

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posted Aug-13-2007 09:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer2:

... running a sub 20 does not mean that you have to gut it out, just that you must distribute effort evenly throughout and increase your fitness level to the point where you can run faster with the same effort as previous races...

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I completely agree with that statement. Here are my splits for my last four 5K's:

20:24 (6:22, 6:45, 6:37)
21:19 (7:08, 6:47, 6:44)
20:29 (no clue - not marked. Made it to the turn around point between 10:10 and 10:20)
20:15 (6:09, no clue for the rest - not marked. Made it to what was labeled as "around the 1.5 mark" in 9:24)

I have been racing since 2001, and have not mastered the 6:26 pace. I can spit out 7:30, 8:00, 9:00, and 9:30 miles with my eyes closed. I have tried running 3:13 half milers with 3:00 minutes rest/recovery to learn 6:26, but that did not seem to help. I have recently been doing 4:15 1K Tinman CV reps - followed by 200 meters in 44 seconds (5:52 pace). I think the workouts are increasing my fitness level. I just bought a Garmin Forerunner 305 GPS watch. I have been intrigued by it, and think it may help with my pacing issues.

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posted Aug-13-2007 10:29 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer2:
My key week of race now includes (this is what seems to work best so far)

5 days before race: 3X1K at just slower than race pace with 1 minute rest...then 3 X 200 meters at 1 mile race pace.

4 days before race...4 miles easy

3 days before race.... 4 miles easy

2 days before race....REST day

day before race....4 miles easy 24 hours before race.

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Have you tried not tapering so much? I followed a Tinman schedule for my least 10k and it looked like this:

4 days before race...4 x 1K at 10k pace with 2 minute jog...then 4 x 200 at 1 mile race pace miles with 2 minute jog; 9 miles total. Very close to what you did, but with a longer recovery jog. I usually take a minute too, just like you did, but take a longer one when workout is close to a key race.

3 days before race.... 10 miles easy in 2 runs (7 + 3)

2 days before race....6 miles easy

day before race....5 miles easy 24 hours before race

As long as you run nice and easy those last few days your legs should feel fine. Also you will be stronger in the late stages of your race. Personally, I wanted to take it a little easier but took a leap of faith and followed the schedule. The result was my best race in a few years (39:36).

That said, you had a nice race, especially considering the course, but I thought I'd throw this in. Just give it a try in a race you don't care that much about as an experiment. You might be surprised at how strong you feel.

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