posted Jul-08-2007 08:59 AM            

I think the pace of your first mile was about right. I know you were shooting for around 6:30, but it's extremely difficult to pick up the pace in the last two miles. IMO, a first mile of around 6:15-6:25 would put you about where you need to be to make your goal.

You mentioned finding someone to work with. I believe that's critical to producing your best effort. I've found that some of my best races have been ones where I've latched onto one or more people in the early going who are going slightly faster than I would like. I've also found that it's worth expending a little more energy in the middle of a race to stay with a pack that's just ahead of me than to go it alone.

Good luck to you.

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posted Jul-08-2007 05:05 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by gcklo:
I have 2 5k's in the next 2.5 weeks. The first one - this Sun, will be an attempt to try to finish between 20:30 to 20:40. The 2nd one is on the track so it is flat and fast and my goal will depend on how I finish this coming Sun. Recently, I run 50+ miles / week except in race week. I find that all my training run times have improved significantly since I increased my mileage. But I will find out if the better training will turn into good racing times.

---

I completely bombed my 5k race. The reason is this race:
Vibha presents 'The Dream Mile 5k/10k 2007', Mountain View, CA 7/08/07
is simply the worst race I have ever been too. It advertised as a fast, flat, certified race, but
1) It is not fast, it has many turns (more about these later), and gravel surface
2) It is not flat. It doesn't have big steep climb but we constantly go up and down on the trail and also run over several bridges.
3) It may not even be certified. I checked the web site again and it says it is on a USATF certified trail. What does that mean? Who knows. It may just be false advertisement.

Despite all that, I was still on pace for my goal time of 20:30 after finishing 3k at 12:18 (just a couple of seconds off pace) and I was running very strong. I know the last k or so was more downhill than uphill so I didn't push too hard up to that point. But at about 3.5k, there was supposed to have a turnaround point. There was a small sign on the road but runners couldn't see and everyone just kept running. The woman who was supposed to staff that point was on the bike riding 100 to 150 yards beyond that sign so people thought they would have to run to her and then back. I slowed down, thought about it for a sec or 2 and then just followed the others. After 80 or 100 yards, the woman shouted turn around. I turned around for 20 yards, then she shouted "no no no, turn around. Nobody knew what she meant so people turned back to the wrong way again. Then she finally rode her bike back and asked us to turn around back to the right way. By then, we wasted 45 to 60 sec at the min. And I was really upset. With that many valuable seconds wasted, there was no way I could break my PR, let alone finishing at 20:30. I was mad and sped and tried to catch those who was supposed to be behind us (and rightfully turned at the right place after seeing the faster runners made the mistakes). I wasted too much energy to catch up and really bombed the 4th k at over 5:30+.

In the end, this was the worst 5k I ran in 2 years. So, for runners in the SF Bay Area, don't try this race if you are a serious runner. But if you want to support the Charity to give Indian (in India) children some money for education, go for it (5% of the money go to some charities in US). I wouldn't recommend it though.

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posted Jul-09-2007 09:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tawanda101:
Mainerunner: ...As for the Tinman "tempo-combo" do you do those by yourself or have someone to run off of?

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All my training runs are solo. I am used to them that way.
________
MichiganFlyer2 - great race and report. gcklo: that was a bummer of race description. I hope your upcoming track 5K is better organized.
____________
Good running all

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posted Jul-09-2007 04:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MaineRunner2001:
All my training runs are solo. I am used to them that way.
________
MichiganFlyer2 - great race and report. gcklo: that was a bummer of race description. I hope your upcoming track 5K is better organized.
____________
Good running all

---

Thanks. I will keep training hard and try to have a good race in 2 weeks. I was upset about yesterday's race until I watched the Golden League Paris Steeple Chase on Versus yesterday. It was a big blunder. They miscounted how many laps. So, when there were supposed to be 2 laps remaining, the rang the bell. The leader (by a big big margin) then ran a very fast lap and crossed the finishing line and then celebrated and started to do a slow victory lap. When all the others caught up, the staff then told them they had one more lap to go. The "winner" then was trailing many of those slower competitors. He did catch up. But some of the staff removed some obstacles from the course already, pretty much invalidating the course. The guy who then was the first to finish all 7.5 laps thought he won.

In the end, the whole race was invalidated. If it could happen at the highest level in the world, I suppose a small regional recreational 5k race organized by an ethnic group with few avid runners in the region could certainly have some errors. I am no longer upset now.

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posted Jul-12-2007 10:10 PM            

The week after the 5k I broke my ankle on December 8th. 6 months, 5 screws and a plate later, I ran my first 5k in 22:35. I followed that up with a 22:07 on July 1st. Today was the Niketown Bastille Day 5k.

19:35 watch time baby. The chip results aren't up yet... but I really can't see it being 25 seconds off. I'll post a race report but I need to grab a shower and head out on a date.... so, "yeaaaah me... I think I'm back!!!!"

George

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posted Jul-13-2007 10:30 AM            

Another thing that impressed me is your occupation: Pastry Chef! Someone surrounded by donuts all day, and can run a sub 20 5K, is a hero in my book.

Looking forward to the race report.

quote:

---

Originally posted by gbhglacier:
This may run a little long... sorry, but be forewarned. I'm 31 years old and returned to running a year ago, having run track and cross country in high school. Last year I ran a half marathon in 1:53, a couple sub 40 8k's and a 20:07 5k.

The week after the 5k I broke my ankle on December 8th. 6 months, 5 screws and a plate later, I ran my first 5k in 22:35. I followed that up with a 22:07 on July 1st. Today was the Niketown Bastille Day 5k.

19:35 watch time baby. The chip results aren't up yet... but I really can't see it being 25 seconds off. I'll post a race report but I need to grab a shower and head out on a date.... so, "yeaaaah me... I think I'm back!!!!"

George

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posted Jul-13-2007 12:12 PM            

I have another 5k I would like to run in 9 days and am seriously considering going for the sub 20. I need to be aggressive from the start and have no fear of burning out on the road.

ANyhow my thought process lately has been attempting to break 13 minutes for 2 miles.....then running the next 4 miles hard around 3:20 per half mile pace (hopefully reaching the 2.6 mile mark in 17:00).

Then I would run the next 90 seconds at a faster gear....then at 18:30 I would try to hammer the last quarter mile and change and wouldnt quit till I crossed the finish or realized a record could not be had.

I need a stopwatch that works though. Normally I use my digital watch and just see what time the race starts and rarely look at it during the race.

Does this sound like a good plan? I can run 2 miles in sub 13 (last race was 13:07) and finished last 1.1 miles in 7:10. So I know if I run a 12:50 for 2 miles I have a good shot to beat 20...I am giving myself 10 seconds of leeway over 12:50 because I know 13:00 is quite possible especially if I am just focused on the 2 mile mark from the start of the race.

anOther strategy I thought about adopting was the run till I saw 15:00 on the clock and then try to run the last 5:00 hard. I feel more comfortable telling myself I only have 4 minutes to go rather than 1 kilometer. You know 4 minutes is always 4 minutes but 1 kilometer coule be 3:50-4:20....if I think how much longer I have to deal with the pain and see the time countdown it seems to help.

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posted Jul-13-2007 01:04 PM            

On this thread (next to last post), tinman proposed a strategy I am going to try in my next 5K: http://www.therunzone.com/VB/showthread.php?t=420

This is how I plan to implement: I am going to run the first 30 seconds at the "perceived" pace I have been doing striders at the end of my CV workouts. Then I am going to run the next two minutes, thirty seconds at the "perceived" pace I have been doing my 1K CV efforts. After that, I hope my training will be enough to achieve my goal.

I hope to be at mile one between 6:26 and 6:30, mile two between 12:50 and 12:55, mile three below 19:19, and then kick the last .1 miles in 40 or less seconds.

My next race is August 4. I hope it is a cool day.

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posted Jul-14-2007 09:33 AM               

I have not checked back all week, was taking a course for my certification in teaching. I am going to hit my highest mileage this week and I actually feel GREAT! My legs aren't sore and I feel pretty rested... I don't know why. this week was really stressful

I did 10.6 on Sun.
Mon.rest.
Tues. Tempo run of 5 mi. 3 @ tempo of 7: 45 ish.
Wed. training run 6.5-7 55 min.
Thurs. easy run 4 mi.
Fri. easy run w/ family biking 5.7 mi.
today I am planning on 6 miles.
Next week is my lower mileage week and we are on vaca. timed that nicely!

I hope your training is going well! Good luck in your upcoming races.

After vacation I want to start incorporating some of the workouts I have seen you guys talk about on here. I will just have to figure out my pace. You are all so motivating! I am going to find an Aug. 5k to run so I can see where I am.

Becka

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posted Jul-14-2007 12:01 PM            

My training this week is:

Tue: 11.17 mile total - 5 mile tempo (36:15) + 3 mile tempo (21:15)
Wed: LSD: 13 miles (2 hr)
Fri: 10.3 mile 5x3/4 @ 5min with 1/4+ mile recovery
Sat: Easy 8 mile
Tomorrow hill repeats 8 mile on treadmill (I live in a flat area)

Next week I will just keep my Tue tempo then run 3 days of easy runs before the race.

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posted Jul-16-2007 01:12 PM            

Long version:

I knew it was going to be a hot one but have been feeling more acclimatized to the heat lately so I was hoping it wouldn't be a factor. Warmed up with a brisk 2 miles and was drenched in sweat (it was 75 and humid at 8:30 a.m. and was pushing 80 by the 9:15 race time). Decided to race shirtless which I never do (for obvious reasons, see photo below). Moved my number to my shorts and went with it(ended up being a really good decision).

I had gone back and forth last week in the 6% thread about first mile pacing and decided that, given the heat, I was going to take it easy on the first mile and try for an even paced 5K (something I have never done). Luckily this race was in my hometown and I knew a lot of runners there. At the start, I picked out two guys that I knew were about 45 seconds to 1 minute slower that I was, perfect pace setters for that first mile.

Lined up at the front and the gun went off. I let my two pacesetters move ahead of me and stayed just behind them. Hit the first mile at 6:22 exactly on target. Picked up pacesetter #1 and caught him. Hung with him for about a minute and then picked up pacesetter #2 and caught him. Hit the 2 mile mark at 12:46 again just about exactly on target.

Felt great at this point and started to push it a bit. Rounded the corner for the last 0.4 miles or so and started hitting it hard. Saw the first woman up ahead and decided to try and catch her. We ended up sprinting stride for stride (see pic) and she just beat me at the line. As I passed the clock it read 19:46 and I stopped my watch a second or two later at 19:48.

Now, for the controversy. Apparently the race officials had a "power outage" during the race. Not sure what happened but my official time was listed as 19:50. The woman's winner who just beat me was listed at 19:45. The pic above was taken maybe 10 strides from the finish line. No way she beat me by 5 seconds. She did beat me, but by a second. I'll take the 19:50 but I know it was 19:46. Either way, being that close to my 19:45 PR (set in 40 degree fall weather) in these conditions is a great sign of things to come (I hope!).

*Laker will love this one*

Didn't get any AG hardware but did receive a trophy for first town resident. Now, that's some obscure hardware right there. Felt funny to accept that one since I was 18th overall and 7th in my AG. Still, hardware aside, this was definitely my best race of the year.

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posted Jul-16-2007 01:29 PM            

Your splits are something like
6:22
6:24
6:26

That is almost perfect pacing!

I don't get how you ran the 1st mile with guys 45 seconds slower than you but it was still your fastest mile!

I watched some Prefontaine footage of a race he finished last in the other da on youtube.. It was after the Olympics when he wasn't training as hard. It was a 1500 meter or 1 mile race on a short indoor track and Pre would bolt to the front and occasionally put in speedbursts to lay the hurt on those following. At about 3/4 mile Pre put on one last burst of speed to challenge for the lead as this was his way of racing but he was not fit enough and eventually got passed by the other 4-5 guys.

It was awesome to watch but I realize Pre ran that way because he didn't posess an end kick. He was fast but his goal was to wear down the other runners so they had no energy to catch him at race's end. I envisioned myself trying to spurt early on in my next race during training runs this week but realize that I should save this spurt for the 2nd half of a race. That way in the 1st mile of a 5k you can run pretty fast but still have in your mind the thought that you still have a spurt left in you for later. It makes it easier to relax on mile one knowing you still are leaving something on the table for later. Psychologically you hit mile one and say I saved something for later and you actually feel better or that is my hope.

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posted Jul-16-2007 01:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
Way to go Joe!

I don't get how you ran the 1st mile with guys 45 seconds slower than you but it was still your fastest mile!

---

Thanks.

Well, it was part of my plan that those guys would probably go out too fast and that by doing so their first mile pace would probably be the perfect first mile pace for me. Worked perfect!!!

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posted Jul-16-2007 05:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by gcklo:

My training this week is:

Tue: 11.17 mile total - 5 mile tempo (36:15) + 3 mile tempo (21:15)
Wed: LSD: 13 miles (2 hr)
Fri: 10.3 mile 5x3/4 @ 5min with 1/4+ mile recovery
Sat: Easy 8 mile
Tomorrow hill repeats 8 mile on treadmill (I live in a flat area)

Next week I will just keep my Tue tempo then run 3 days of easy runs before the race.[/B]

---

I have a question for all the sub-20 graduates or aspirants.
I have 2 choices on this coming weekend to go after a new PR of about 20:30 (not sub-20 yet)

1. a track race (flat & fast) at about 4 or 5pm (relatively hot)
2. a morning road race which is decently fast & flat (colder temperature)

The difference in temperature can be substantial (~ 20 degree)

I originally am targeting the track race but I am having 2nd thought. I did my speed intervals last Thu at temperature that are 8 to 10 degrees lower than the predicted track race temperature and was already feeling the heat. That's why I am thinking may be I should join a colder race and not to squander my opportunity to set a PR. Please advise.

------------------
Happy running !

My Profile

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posted Jul-16-2007 06:04 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by gcklo:
I have a question for all the sub-20 graduates or aspirants.
I have 2 choices on this coming weekend to go after a new PR of about 20:30 (not sub-20 yet)

1. a track race (flat & fast) at about 4 or 5pm (relatively hot)
2. a morning road race which is decently fast & flat (colder temperature)

The difference in temperature can be substantial (~ 20 degree)

I originally am targeting the track race but I am having 2nd thought. I did my speed intervals last Thu at temperature that are 8 to 10 degrees lower than the predicted track race temperature and was already feeling the heat. That's why I am thinking may be I should join a colder race and not to squander my opportunity to set a PR. Please advise.

---

That is easy for me.
I would pick the road race.
I hate the track but love the splits you get.

I have even tried a track race in the morning when temps around 70 degrees and while the 1st two miles went well (around 13:00) I died in the last mile and ended up around 20:50 for 5k distance. Maybe a track race in the morning would be good but without someone pacing you its hard to find motivation for the last mile to mile and a half.

I almost never run in the morning but I set a PR of 20:17 in a morning 5k. Anything above 68 degrees is harder on that last mile and if the sun is high in the sky it gets very tough for me.

[This message has been edited by MichiganFlyer2 (edited Jul-16-2007).]

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posted Jul-16-2007 06:37 PM            

To the last couple of posts ... Definitely the road race. By that time in the afternoon I'm usually just not in my best running form, not to mention it's icky hot. Plus, running around in circles for a 5k would kill me.

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posted Jul-30-2007 12:21 PM            

August is a big month for me, in regard to running a sub 20 minute 5K. My goal race is this Saturday, August 4.

The course is not certified, but I have no problem considering it as "PR worthy." It is a looped course. It is wheel measured. This will be the 11th year it will be held. It has the same race director since 2001. It is flat. Playing with the elevation profile shows it loses 7.5 feet in elevation. The largest up hill is 52.4 feet. The largest down hill is 39.3 feet.

I feel I am in good shape. However, I am not sure if I am in sub 20 minute 5K shape.

Here are my races this year: April 5K 20:24, May 5K 21:19, May 15K 1:08:50, June 5 Miles 34:17 (PR), and July 5K 20:29.

Over the last two weeks I had planned to do some peaking workouts tinman suggested. However, I replaced the peaking workouts with other runs. On July 16, I crashed while riding a mountain bike. I was on vacation from July 14 to July 22. I ate horribly during the vacation. The vacation week, eating habits, and the bike crash were the reasons/excuses I replaced the tinman peaking workouts with other workouts.

I weighed 164.5 pounds when I woke up this morning. That is low for me - a pound or two lower than my "normal" racing weight. (I am 5'11".) I hope to lose a couple other pounds this week by watching what I eat.

Here is my year-to-date training:

Week, Weekly Miles, Quality Workouts
1. 12/31/2006, 0, Off
2. 01/07/2007, 30, 6 mile long run
3. 01/14/2007, 30, 6 mile long run
4. 01/21/2007, 30, 8 mile long run
5. 01/28/2007, 32, 10 mile long run
6. 02/04/2007, 24, Cutback
7. 02/11/2007, 31, 8 mile long run
8. 02/18/2007, 35, 10 mile long run; 4 mile tempo
9. 02/25/2007, 35, 10 mile long run; 4 mile tempo
10. 03/04/2007, 31, 10 mile long run; 4 mile tempo
11. 03/11/2007, 25, Cutback
12. 03/18/2007, 35, 10 mile long run; 4 mile tempo
13. 03/25/2007, 35, 10 mile long run; 4 mile tempo
14. 04/01/2007, 40, 10 mile long run; 4 mile tempo
15. 04/08/2007, 35, 10 mile long run; 4 mile tempo
16. 04/15/2007, 20, 5K Race (20:24) / Cutback
17. 04/22/2007, 35, 10 mile progression run; 2X1K @ 4:15 2X200M @ :40
18. 04/29/2007, 35, 10 mile progression run; 3X1K @ 4:15 3X200M @ :40
19. 05/06/2007, 35, 10 mile progression run; 3X1K @ 4:15 3X200M @ :40
20. 05/13/2007, 35, 10 mile progression run; 5K Race (21:19)
21. 05/20/2007, 25, 15K Race (1:08:50) / Cutback
22. 05/27/2007, 37, 10 mile progression run; 4X1K @ 4:15 4X200M @ :40
23. 06/03/2007, 36, 10 mile progression run; 5X1K @ 4:15 4X200M @ :40
24. 06/10/2007, 36, 10 mile progression run; 5X1K @ 4:15 4X200M @ :40
25. 06/17/2007, 37, 10 mile progression run; 5M Race (34:17)
26. 06/24/2007, 25, Cutback
27. 07/01/2007, 36, 9 mile tempo-combo, 5K race (20:26), 8 x 100m
28. 07/08/2007, 37, 9 mile tempo-combo, 5X1K @ 4:15 4X200M @ :40, 8 x 100m
29. 07/15/2007, 40, 13 mile two hour long run, 9 mile tempo-combo
30. 07/22/2007, 32, 4 mile tempo, 3 mile tempo, 8 x 100m
Total: 949 miles (31.63 miles per week)

My three level goals for the August 4 5K race:
1) A little out of reach: 19:59 or better
2) Tough but doable: 20:59 or better
3) Will be satisfied if: 21:26 or better (course PR).

Good running all

[This message has been edited by MaineRunner2001 (edited Jul-31-2007).]

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posted Jul-30-2007 01:28 PM            

Maine I wouldn't worry about your weight that much. I have been around 145-148 and cannot break 20. Yet I see 200 pounders do it that are 10 years older than me.

A pound or two may help you in a race but the deciding factor is your training.

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posted Jul-30-2007 02:09 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
Yet I see 200 pounders do it that are 10 years older than me.

A pound or two may help you in a race but the deciding factor is yourr training.

---

I agree, there are a ton of training factors that probably outweigh the concern of a few pounds. I like to drop a couple pounds before a race because I generally carry a lot of water weight, but I'm 39 and 195 lbs and I'd put money on being faster than my May 20:04. I was always around high 180's though, even back 20 years ago when I was a lot faster. You've just gotta carry it well.

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posted Jul-30-2007 02:12 PM            

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posted Jul-30-2007 07:03 PM               

I haven't done a VO2 max workout in at least 8 weeks. I did one tempo run last week and a couple 8 x 100M strides at the end some easy runs.

I did a one day taper and then ran 14 miles then next day. I'm sure I have a faster 5K in me, but I don't much care for the distance...

------------------
how do you like me now?

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posted Jul-31-2007 10:09 AM            

I agree you have a faster 5K in you. Using your June 1/2 marathon (1:29:59), listed in your profile, McMillan predicts a 19:28 5K. I do think your 5K to half marathon times line up nicely - a lot better than mine do. Good work.

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posted Jul-31-2007 01:05 PM            

Sorry to be addressing your question so late. From my experience, track should theoretically be better, since you get constant feedback on your pace. The problem I've encountered is that track races tend to be sparsely attended, so it's difficult to get into a racing situation where one has people to work with. Roads leave more mystery as to one's exact pace until hitting the mile marks. ( I guess a GPS unit could provide better feedback.) The advantage of a road race is that there are generally lots of other people around, which tends to be helpful in trying to maintain a challenging pace.

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posted Jul-31-2007 01:14 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by MaineRunner2001:
Congratulations arc918.

I agree you have a faster 5K in you. Using your June 1/2 marathon (1:29:59), listed in your profile, McMillan predicts a 19:28 5K. I do think your 5K to half marathon times line up nicely - a lot better than mine do. Good work.

---

thanks MR - that half marathon was gravity assisted (run on the "world's fastest half marathon course" - all downhill 2,125 foot elevation drop) - my next goal is to break 1:30 on a flat course...

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posted Aug-05-2007 11:08 AM            

http://dhartley86.vox.com/library/post/dover-foxcroft-foxcroft-alumni-5k-august-4-2007.html

Short story: 20:15 Happy with the time and effort level. The only split was mile one: 6:09. Pretty bad positive split.

[This message has been edited by MaineRunner2001 (edited Aug-05-2007).]

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