posted Oct-25-2007 10:48 AM               

I'd say you will have to force yourself to get up early enough to allow yourself time to get the race an hour before the start. It is critical to warm up good, especially for a short race like the 5k. You'll know who the beginners or those who are not serious racers are because they'll be standing around the entire time before the race ("saving energy"). Failure to warmup properly is one the most common mistakes runners make, and even some experienced ones are guilty of it.

As far as eating, it is somewhat of an individual thing. For a short race you could wait until afterwards if your stomach doesn't growl (mine growls). Personally, I'll eat something very light like a half banana or piece of toast soon after getting out of bed.

Good luck--you had a very decent race, btw, for your first try.

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posted Oct-25-2007 11:27 AM               

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posted Oct-25-2007 02:37 PM               

------------------
Love the coast!!
www.coffeebluff.com
Savannah Georgia

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posted Oct-25-2007 06:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by OldXCguy:
Jim, thanks so much for your kind, encouraging words. I truly appreciate the support from you and others on here. I have indeed felt strong and fit, thanks largely to Tinman's coaching advice. It just seemed that until yesterday, I felt like I was lacking speed.

I fully realize that mentally composing a race report with a third of the race left is far from a good thing. Even though I felt comfortable and confident, one needs to remain focused in the present the whole way, something I had been doing well in my last few races until that little lapse. Luckily, I was able to snap back into a racing mindset before much damage was done.

I think it was the short course prevention factor that accounted for my slow last mile. My Garmin 305 was in complete agreement with the first two mile markers, so either both were off; or I slowed to a 6:40 pace on the third mile (allowing 40 seconds for the last .11), which I don't think is likely because I was still running pretty well; or most likely, it was the SPF. Both my Garmin, and a subsequent measuring on a mapping site produced readings of 3.15 miles. The extra .04 doesn't sound like much, but at my pace, it adds about 15 seconds.

I understand the science of measuring courses, how a Jones counter is calibrated, and then used for multiple trips over the course to cut every turn as tightly as possible. What I don't understand, and don't agree with, is how the science is then discarded and a fudge factor is added to be sure the course is not short. I understand the rationale, that race directors are afraid that if someone sets a record, and the course is subsequently found to be short, the record would be invalidated. But for every one person that sets a record, thousands of us (maybe tens of thousands) are denied the times to which we are entitled. Fifteen seconds would have made a big difference to anyone's times, especially those people in the 20:00-20:15 range.

Hey, excuse my rant, but I've been wanting to get that off my chest for a long time.

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Your Garmin will likely show almost all races longer. The shortest 5K I've had on mine is 3.14. The longest is 3.19. Unless you are following the exact path (on a certified course) that they measured, then we will almost always have to run further than the actual distance.

For my 3 marathons, my Garmin has measured 26.65, 26.56, and 26.52. These are huge marathons where elites run, so they are most likely not that long by any stretch. I just take that into account and know that I have to run faster than the Garmin shows.

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posted Oct-25-2007 08:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott3294:
Hi,
I am brand new to competing, but not new to running. I am 40 years old and in pretty decent shape. I ran the mile and 2 mile in highschool and then gave up running (played basketball regularly through my 30's) until about 2.5 years ago.
I started running several times a week. Most runs were 3 to 4 miles and I ran them generally at about an 8 minute pace. A few weeks ago I started longer runs (slower MAF pace about 9 MPM) and have my weekly mileage up into the upper 20's.
This past Friday, on a whim with a friend, we ran a 5k race in town (this was my first race since high school, and longest). I finished 20th out of 200 with a time of 22:41. So...........
My goal is to break 22, then 21...and then 20.
My next step is a Trick or Trot 5k this weekend and I just want to run faster than last week and survive running at 8 am...I never run before noon and most days I run in the evening...so this might be a handicap.
Anyway..this looks like a great thread and wanted to jump in.
Scott

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Nice job!

I've done three 5Ks so far (29:50, 26:09, and 23:17) after about five months of training. I've never seriously been a runner or competed before this. My long term goal for now is to break 20, and my short term goals are similar to yours, 22, then 21. I'm averaging around 17 miles a week and should break 20 this week. Trying to get that up to 25-30. Running my first 10K next weekend, we'll see how that goes then it's back to 5Ks. Good luck to everyone!

[This message has been edited by RacingThoughts (edited Oct-25-2007).]

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posted Oct-25-2007 09:29 PM               

I'm 36, about 6'3" tall and 195 lbs with no extra weight. Almost 20 years ago, and 30 lbs lighter, in high school, I ran sub 18:00 routinely for 5k, around 39:00 for 10k; and just over an hour for 10 miles. Typical highschool XC training. No pain, no gain. Repeat miles. 12x400 in 72 seconds with 200 m recovery jogs or until you puke. Fun stuff.

Fast forward to 2002 where I started riding mountain bikes seriously and running occassionally (mostly during winter) to maintain fitness. In late August '07, a friend talked me into a duathlon which was on October 14. I hadn't been doing much running, but I had been riding single-speed mountain bikes 5-6 days/week for well over a year, so I had some decent fitness.

In September, I started running three days a week, and continued riding mountain bikes on the other three days- short easy runs (3-4 miles max, good warmup and cooldown), with a heart rate monitor, staying at or below MAF. September 29, I entered a small local 5k (first road race in 16 years) to test my running fitness and ran just over 22 minutes on a flat course. I went out far too fast, running the first mile in 6:38 and suffering through the remainder of the race, but with my limited training this got me wondering if, with increased mileage and a little more structured training, a sub 20:00 5k was in my future.

On October 14, I ran the 2.2 mile runs in the duathlon (my first) at about 7:00 pace (with a BIG hill in the middle), and finished in 22nd place out of 80 (I am strong on the bike). The second run was brutal, but my pacing was consistant even though my legs felt like lead after the transition from the bike.

At any rate, I've continued doing 90% of my runs at or below MAF, and running 3-4 days a week. My MAF pace has dropped by almost two minutes in 8 weeks. Everything feels good. I'm working on increasing my mileage to about 25 miles per week (in 4 running days). I recently added a weekly tempo run, and my current tempo pace, as of today, at 86-87% MHR, is about 6:55. There is a small local 5k in two weeks, and I'm wondering if sub 21:00 might be possible?

I'll be adding more running over the winter, as cycling becomes less accessible. As spring approaches, I'll start on some real speed work. I'm going sub 20 in the spring for sure! My long-term goal is to try and get back to sub 19:00 by next summer!

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posted Oct-25-2007 10:33 PM            

[This message has been edited by OldXCguy (edited Oct-26-2007).]

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posted Oct-27-2007 11:44 AM               

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posted Oct-27-2007 12:05 PM            

I didn't make much concession to my marathon training schedule (Houston Jan 13) except to move my Thursday tempo run to Wednesday and run easy Thursday and yesterday.

I was very conscious of trying not to go out too fast (I've done that too many times), and was able to run almost perfectly even splits but I was counting on being able to open it up just a little bit on the last half mile of the loop course as it was downhill. I just didn't quite have the juice.

My last sub 20 min 5K was over 20 years ago when I was in grad school, and I'm hungry for it again but it will have to wait until the spring. I was able to do it on youthful enthusiasm and 10-15 miles per week back then; it's been damn hard work now at age 44 just to get close!

Good luck to all of you still shooting for the sub-20.

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posted Oct-27-2007 01:14 PM               

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Love the coast!!
www.coffeebluff.com
Savannah Georgia

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posted Oct-27-2007 01:48 PM            

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010725.shtml

This thread is great and has been very helpful.

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posted Oct-27-2007 02:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by chrisfield:
Broke 20 minutes today for the first time!!! You can read my full race report here:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010725.shtml

This thread is great and has been very helpful.

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Congrats!

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posted Oct-27-2007 02:49 PM               

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posted Oct-27-2007 07:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by chrisfield:
Broke 20 minutes today for the first time!!! You can read my full race report here:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010725.shtml

This thread is great and has been very helpful.

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Awesome job!

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posted Oct-28-2007 08:17 PM            

I am new to this forum and was hoping to get some advice on a winter maintenance/training plan. I want to go under 20 for the 5k in the spring of '08 and need some guidance as to the best way to go about that. I am 25 years old and I have been running for about a year and a half.

PR's:
5k - 21:54 (10/6/2007)
1/2 Marathon - 1:43:32 (9/16/2007)

I have not done that much short speedwork (usually mile repeats) and I have always been more comfortable running long and slow than short and fast, but I want to change that.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeremy

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posted Oct-29-2007 08:44 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by jeremystaples:
advice on a winter maintenance/training plan.

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Don't worry about speed too much over winter. Keep a good volume going. Once the weather starts to break and race season approaches, then you can introduce your speed back in. Nothing wrong with mile repeats. You may want to look at introducing a solid tempo or progression run in your plan at that time as well.

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posted Oct-30-2007 08:27 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by JimR:
Don't worry about speed too much over winter. Keep a good volume going. Once the weather starts to break and race season approaches, then you can introduce your speed back in. Nothing wrong with mile repeats. You may want to look at introducing a solid tempo or progression run in your plan at that time as well.

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As well as maintaining a good percentage of my miles, as JimR suggests, I like to keep some shorter tempo runs in over the winter, just to keep the motor running. I have found that this keeps me stimulated and makes the transition to speedwork prior to racing season a little smoother.

I start my speedwork each season by slowly increasing my tempo run duration then ease into some 400s, then 800s then mile repeats. For the 5k, I'll focus more on the 400s, building pace and number of intervals (upto 10).

Note that for my first sub 20 5k, the majority of my runs were 20 min tempos and 30 progressions. Adding consistant 400s, and some longer tempos I dropped to the low 19s. Adding more miles, I dropped below 19.

[This message has been edited by RunAsics (edited Oct-30-2007).]

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posted Oct-31-2007 03:47 PM            

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posted Nov-02-2007 06:44 AM            

I ran 20 miles last week and my goal is 22 miles this week.

Last night being the 1st of the month I decided to log a 5k on my neighborhood roads. I went out at what I felt was 10k race pace so that I wouldn't be running this like a race.

My splits were 6:56, 7:00 and 6:47.
A final tenth of 0:35 gave me a 5k time of 21:17.

My muscles are sore today but it seems like I ran it pretty controlled. I was happy about my middle half miles which clocked in very consistently at:

3:29
3:31
3:32
3:31

The 1st half mile was 3:24 and the last 3:16. So as Jasons Driving Force says you can really make up a ton of time in that last quarter mile. I estimate in the last 0.15 mile I made up about 16 seconds from what my average pace was for the 1st 2.9 miles of the run.

Every month I hope to test my 5k speed like this. I don't want to do a whole lot of fast miles just get my miles up again to around 35 by New Years and see if I can increase it to the 50s by Spring.

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posted Nov-02-2007 09:31 AM               

Yesterday was a very slow 7ish miles in an hour 12.

Wednesday was tempo but not particularly quick, 3 1/2 core @7:15 pace. 8k XC race coming on Sunday, which isn't goal. I'm trying to decide whether to do my long run tomorrow, or imbed the 8k in it on Sunday.

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posted Nov-02-2007 11:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:

The 1st half mile was 3:24 and the last 3:16. So as Jasons Driving Force says you can really make up a ton of time in that last quarter mile. I estimate in the last 0.15 mile I made up about 16 seconds from what my average pace was for the 1st 2.9 miles of the run.

Every month I hope to test my 5k speed like this. I don't want to do a whole lot of fast miles just get my miles up again to around 35 by New Years and see if I can increase it to the 50s by Spring.

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Keep at it Michigan! You are going to do it, I have faith in you!

I have my biggest race weekend coming up tomorrow! I have my goal 5k race on Saturday and a goal half marathon on Sunday. I know two races in two days is suicide but I like to live dangerously. To top it off I have had a cold and a very bad cough all week.

The 5K should be interesting. It finishes down a moderately steep hill for the entire last mile. I am going to try and blow that last mile out. This might be my first negative split 5K ever.

I am just going to try not to die in half marathon. Good luck to everyone racing this weekend.

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posted Nov-02-2007 11:28 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by RunAsics:
As well as maintaining a good percentage of my miles, as JimR suggests, I like to keep some shorter tempo runs in over the winter, just to keep the motor running.

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Last winter I had more speedwork in the mix because it was pretty mild out for most of it. It's usually not there simply due to conditions, so my opportunities to pick it up are few and far between. Usually I just say 'forget' and wait till things melt. Leaves me sluggish coming into spring, but it never takes long to get it back.

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posted Nov-02-2007 12:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by JasonsDrivingForce:
To top it off I have had a cold and a very bad cough all week.

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Good luck to you and everyone else racing this weekend.

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posted Nov-02-2007 01:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
After 2 weeks vacation from running in which I ran a total of 16.5 miles run I am now beginning my 2008 training regime.

I ran 20 miles last week and my goal is 22 miles this week.

Last night being the 1st of the month I decided to log a 5k on my neighborhood roads. I went out at what I felt was 10k race pace so that I wouldn't be running this like a race.

My splits were 6:56, 7:00 and 6:47.
A final tenth of 0:35 gave me a 5k time of 21:17.

My muscles are sore today but it seems like I ran it pretty controlled. I was happy about my middle half miles which clocked in very consistently at:

3:29
3:31
3:32
3:31

The 1st half mile was 3:24 and the last 3:16. So as Jasons Driving Force says you can really make up a ton of time in that last quarter mile. I estimate in the last 0.15 mile I made up about 16 seconds from what my average pace was for the 1st 2.9 miles of the run.

Every month I hope to test my 5k speed like this. I don't want to do a whole lot of fast miles just get my miles up again to around 35 by New Years and see if I can increase it to the 50s by Spring.

---

Michigan, what are you hoping to gain from these 5K non-race efforts? Are you just hoping to pop off a sub 20, or do you have a good training reason?

Not trying to be critical, but I think you would be better served by a solid training program with a good mix of tempo runs, intervals, and weekly long runs and saving the 5K race efforts for actual races. I have been reading Daniels book and he is a big proponent of only training as fast and as long as you need to train to get the desired effect from a particular workout (lactate removal for tempo and VO2max from intervals). He goes into great detail about why you should stick to your target paces for a particular workout even if you are feeling great. Your 5K runs are too fast for tempo and probably beat you up much more than a solid interval workout.

Besides, I know that for myself, there is no way I can match my race pace from an actual race in a solo time trial. I need the adreneline of the race and the other runners to push me to my best times. You might be sabotaging your actual races with these periodic 5K time trials.

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posted Nov-02-2007 01:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by joev9:

Michigan, what are you hoping to gain from these 5K non-race efforts? Are you just hoping to pop off a sub 20, or do you have a good training reason?

Not trying to be critical, but I think you would be better served by a solid training program with a good mix of tempo runs, intervals, and weekly long runs and saving the 5K race efforts for actual races. I have been reading Daniels book and he is a big proponent of only training as fast and as long as you need to train to get the desired effect from a particular workout (lactate removal for tempo and VO2max from intervals). He goes into great detail about why you should stick to your target paces for a particular workout even if you are feeling great. Your 5K runs are too fast for tempo and probably beat you up much more than a solid interval workout.

Besides, I know that for myself, there is no way I can match my race pace from an actual race in a solo time trial. I need the adreneline of the race and the other runners to push me to my best times. You might be sabotaging your actual races with these periodic 5K time trials.

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Thanks for the advice.

I am just seeing where I am at for the time being. I don't have any races lined up probably until February. I called this my 6 mile race pace effort. I suppose it was a tempo paced run. I think tempo pace is 7:00 per mile for 4 miles for me. Basically I am running most of my training at around 8:10 per mile pace which may be a little fast but I am only running 20 miles per week right now so I suppose when my miles go higher the training pace will slow.

I have run 5 five-ks in the last month in my neighborhood alone...21:19, 22:09, 22:33, 22:27 and 21:17. I cannot say there was anything hard about them. They were all in my comfort zone and keep me confident knowing I can still run a mid 20's five-k if need be.

I am having fun right now. I am keeping the paces easy and the mileage fairly low so far. There have been alot of times when I dreaded getting out and running but currently I am doing what I like and its working so I hope this continues.

I don't want to try and break 5k for a few months maybe not April. The pressure is off and I like that. I can get better but I have time. Last year I tried several different training programs (probably didnt follow them as well as I should...not enough long runs or intervals) but I ran a 5k in 20:22 in May...and only improved 5 seconds to 20:17 in July and from July-October I could not best that time. So this winter I am looking at getting in a little more base miles. Last year I was around 35 as a peak....I did get to 40 per week for a month and put forth 4 good races under 20:30. This year I am going to try for 50 miles per week and hope to bring all my 5k races to sub 20 next year.

I do agree its much harder to run 5ks by yourself like you do in races. I have run sub 20:30 by myself three or four times though which is about the same as my 5k race time so it is posisble. The reason for this is I get used to my neighborhood course and know what to expect.

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