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Topic: interval training at the cost of long runs? |
mrinertia
Cool Runner |
 posted May-10-2007 09:42 AM
   
quote:
Originally posted by Tchuck:
Just remember not to fly out too hard when you do your 5K race. It is a mistake most of us make when we haven't raced in a while. You still will but I am warning you.
I like 10k, 10 mile and HMs a LOT. I'm used to starting out conservatively and finishing strong. Thanks for the heads up nonetheless.
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superburtm
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:12 AM
running slow= slow running
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runfastcoach
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 05:34 AM
At your performance level, doing 1 long run and 1 interval or tempo run per week is perfectly sensible. Any more than that is asking for injuries, burnout, and staleness. Give your body time to adjust. Be patient. More is fine, but not necessarily better. Often, the more is better philosophy is synonymous with impatience. Most runners who've had injuries will tell you there problem was rushing the process - doing too much, too soon, too fast. Remember this basic observation: Just because you can do something doesn't mean it is good for you. And just because something is good for you in a small amount doesn't mean it's good for you in a bigger amount. Good luck! Tinman
runfastcoach@gmail.com
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mrinertia
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 08:45 AM
Thanks for your input everybody. Right now I am ocusing almost exclusively on increasing my MPW and have already started reaping the rewards. While some runs are a bit faster than others, I haven't even really been doing specific tempo runs. I think the best thing I can do to get faster right now is run more miles. When the benefits I get from racking up higher mileage plateaus, I'll turn to speedwork.
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aharmer
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 12:38 PM
mrinertia,Have you ever done any running with a heart rate monitor (HRM)? If you're analytical you might really enjoy it. I'm extremely analytical and it makes my running much more enjoyable. My entire program is based on HR percentages and not paces. There's one way to know for sure if your different runs are being done at the correct intensity. Strap on a monitor and find out. My blog discusses the topic, you could buy a book by Parker called "HR Training for the Compleat Idiot", or find one of many threads on the board here if you're interested. For the analytical mind it might be just what you're looking for. If you're interested I'd be happy to help get you started. ------------------
My Profile "Pain is temporary. Regret hurts forever."
http://www.hrmarathontraining.blogspot.com/
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mrinertia
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by aharmer:
mrinertia,Have you ever done any running with a heart rate monitor (HRM)? If you're analytical you might really enjoy it. I'm extremely analytical and it makes my running much more enjoyable. My entire program is based on HR percentages and not paces. There's one way to know for sure if your different runs are being done at the correct intensity. Strap on a monitor and find out. My blog discusses the topic, you could buy a book by Parker called "HR Training for the Compleat Idiot", or find one of many threads on the board here if you're interested. For the analytical mind it might be just what you're looking for. If you're interested I'd be happy to help get you started.
I am a pretty analytical guy. However I've been reluctant to get a HRM because everyone says it's going to tell me to slow it down. I don't want to want to slow down. I run, for the most part, at a pretty comfortable pace, even if that pace is closer to race pace than recomended. I'm not a particularly fast runner yet and slowing even further would be psychologically uncomfortable for me. I run my training runs about a 9:15-9:45 pace depending on the distance. A few things about slowing down: firstly, I am comfortable at that pace. Secondly, time is a factor. An 8 mile run at 11 minutes takes 14 minutes longer than it would at a 9:15 pace. When my feet hit the floor at 4:45 am, I am thankful for that 14 extra minutes. I understand that I cannot run every run at race pace, nor do I want to. By the same token, it makes sense that running slow teaches slow running.
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oar
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:48 PM
If you are comfortable then you are not running too fast.
You might be running too slow.
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sack77
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-03-2007 02:09 PM
I have a similiar story to yours. Up until this January, I was averaging between 20-25mpw and ran a lot of my miles at around 8:00. I upped my mileage to 35-40mpw with a long run between 10-12 each week at around 9:30. The other 4 days I run are usually between 8:45 and 9:15. The only thing that remotely resembles speed work is that if I'm feeling particularily good I'll run the last few miles of a run at close to 8:00. I don't even do that every week, maybe twice a month.My old 10k PR was a 51:30. I ran a 46:40 last week. Since I'm not doing any speedwork, the only possible explanation is the increased mileage. I don't think I could have done the extra mileage running the pace I was before. So, FWIW, more mileage + slower pace = almost 5 min PR for me.
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Docster
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-03-2007 03:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mrinertia:
I am a pretty analytical guy. However I've been reluctant to get a HRM because everyone says it's going to tell me to slow it down. I don't want to want to slow down. I run, for the most part, at a pretty comfortable pace, even if that pace is closer to race pace than recomended. I'm not a particularly fast runner yet and slowing even further would be psychologically uncomfortable for me. I run my training runs about a 9:15-9:45 pace depending on the distance. A few things about slowing down: firstly, I am comfortable at that pace. Secondly, time is a factor. An 8 mile run at 11 minutes takes 14 minutes longer than it would at a 9:15 pace. When my feet hit the floor at 4:45 am, I am thankful for that 14 extra minutes. I understand that I cannot run every run at race pace, nor do I want to. By the same token, it makes sense that running slow teaches slow running.
So, you run a lot of 9:30 miles, including long runs (well 9:40 you stated) and you aren't sure you can run a 8:30 paced 10K? If you can't then you are clearly running too hard, period. You should be able to hammer an 8:15 fairly easily with those training efforts.
Aside from that, you sound like your mind is made up. You don't want to slow down. Maybe you don't need to. You might run a sub 8:00 10K time. I run a lot of 9:00 to 9:20 miles. 90% of my miles lately are in that range, if not more. I can run 7:45 miles without much effort. Conversational, even. However, that doesn't mean I do it every day. Running slow does teach slow running. You are right. However it doesn't make you slow. What you fail to understand is that can make you faster, yet you don't want to hear that. You say you don't want to slow down, but do you want to get faster? You just might have to slow down to get faster. Let us know how the 10K race goes, and good luck.
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mrinertia
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-03-2007 04:25 PM
Thanks for you input everyone. My 10k is next Saturday. I'll post my results. I'm pretty nervous. I've entered races before and have run them all pretty hard, but I don't know that I've ever run a full on, bang your head against the wall RACE. I'm looking forward to it and dreading it at the same time. It's almost a week away and I'm starting to get jitters. I'll asess my training paces based on my performance next week nad make adjustments if needed. Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.
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Docster
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-04-2007 09:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by mrinertia:
Thanks for you input everyone. My 10k is next Saturday. I'll post my results. I'm pretty nervous. I've entered races before and have run them all pretty hard, but I don't know that I've ever run a full on, bang your head against the wall RACE. I'm looking forward to it and dreading it at the same time. It's almost a week away and I'm starting to get jitters. I'll asess my training paces based on my performance next week nad make adjustments if needed. Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.
I know how you feel. I've run...oh..8 to 10 races in the last 9 months, and I still don't know that I've really laid it all out there during a race, perhaps aside from my last marathon, but even then I'm pretty sure I could have run 10 seconds faster per mile. Just make sure you get a good warmup in. I'd say at least 1.5 miles, up to 2 or so. Trying to race hard without a good warmup makes for a rough start I've noticed.
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michaelsnelliam
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-04-2007 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by superburtm:
running slow= slow running
Killer whale = whale killer
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gcklo
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-04-2007 08:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sack77:
My old 10k PR was a 51:30. I ran a 46:40 last week. Since I'm not doing any speedwork, the only possible explanation is the increased mileage. I don't think I could have done the extra mileage running the pace I was before. So, FWIW, more mileage + slower pace = almost 5 min PR for me.
You were doing tempo runs without even knowing it. Your tempo pace is somewhere between 7:30+ to 8:10+ or so when you improved from 51:30 to 46:40. So, for people who define speedworks to include tempos, you were almost doing weekly speedworks!!!
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mrinertia
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-05-2007 08:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gcklo:
You were doing tempo runs without even knowing it. Your tempo pace is somewhere between 7:30+ to 8:10+ or so when you improved from 51:30 to 46:40.So, for people who define speedworks to include tempos, you were almost doing weekly speedworks!!!
I'm probably in the same boat (accidental tempo running). When people say 10k race pace plus a minute or whatever, that's not something I can easily judge since I haven't raced since September of last year. I know I have gotten faster, but how much? I guess that's one reason to race more frequently, so I have periodic milestone to guage my progress. A point that brings me to this evening's workout.
Firstly, I'm in taper hell. I've never really thought there was much need to taper for a 10k because they're comparitively short. Chalk that up to being an uneducated Newbie. Per my mentor's recomendation, I'm only doing 12 miles this week leading up to the race on Saturday. My week looks like this: Monday - off
Tuesday - 2m warm-up, 2m race pace, 2m cooldown
Wednesday - 3m with 1 mile fartlek
Thursday - 3 easy So tonight I went out, warmed up, then hit what pace I felt I could just barely hold for 6 miles. There was some guesswork involved, but I ran those two miles at about a 7:25 pace. I was shocked. I know a lot can happen during a 10k, but it looks like I am ready to blow the lid off my 54:04 PR on Saturday. Thanks again for everyone's input. Wish me luck. I've got the jitters somthin' fierce!
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All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you.
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gcklo
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-05-2007 11:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mrinertia:
Firstly, I'm in taper hell. I've never really thought there was much need to taper for a 10k because they're comparitively short. Chalk that up to being an uneducated Newbie. Per my mentor's recomendation, I'm only doing 12 miles this week leading up to the race on Saturday. My week looks like this:
I don't know if you need to taper so much for a 10k. I usually do about 2/3 of my normal mileage but will reduce my tempos and intervals significantly. ------------------
Happy running ! My Profile
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exciton
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-06-2007 11:07 AM
I hope I am not repeating another post. I skimmed the other responses but don't have time to read in detail.One mistake that I think almost all new runners make is that their easy days are just not easy enough. If you are trying to accomodate three key workouts per week, then you need to make sure the intervening easy days are truly easy. What is easy? For me, after an easy run I can take a few walking steps and my breathing is normal. I feel like I could easily do the whole run over again. There is no fatigue involved. These runs are for recovery and for practicing your form. You may have to deliberately hold back to keep yourself from picking up the pace. Get over the idea that every run should give a significant training stress. Focus on hitting the splits in your key workouts that will lead to the fulfillment of your racing goals. ------------------
My Profile
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