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Topic: 2007 Sub 40 10K Goal Thread |
Jim24315
Cool Runner |
 posted Jan-02-2007 10:26 AM
   
This year will be my 3rd year since resuming training after a several year layoff. I am still chasing my elusive goal of running a sub-40 10K.If you are up to the challenge, climb on board and we will pool our knowledge and inspiration as we try to meet this goal together. I will list all those who run a sub-40 below on the “Graduates List”. Below that will be a place to list your upcoming 10k’s races. Please give the date, time, name of event, and if the course was certified. All sub-40’s not run on a certified course or track will be marked with an asterisk. Personally, I will not be counting any of mine that are not certified or run on a track. See "10k List..." thread: http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum5/HTML/003892.shtml Jim GRADUATES LIST (date, handle, time, certified - yes/no)
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DianeNJ - 38:53 - 03/25/07
Dredd - 39:49 - 06/30/07 Dunshaughlin 10k - Ireland
Bizenyaki - 38:52 - 07/01/07 HBC Run for Canada (38:51.8)
Dakota Ridgerunner - 39:54 - 07/04/07 L.L. Bean 10k - Freeport, Maine
norrin radd - 39:39 - 08/05/07 Run for the Parks 10k - Alameda CA
Jim24315 - 39:36 - 08/05/07 Run for the Parks 10k - Alameda CA
Jim24315 - 39:32 - 09/23/07 Masters 10k National - Paso Robles CA
thereshegoes - 39:06 - 09/29/07 Akron Marathon Relay - Akron OH
Mailbox Head - 39:48 - 10/07/07 Oktoberfest Classic - Minster OH
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UPCOMING 10K's (date, handle, name of event)
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05/05/07 Southern Man - Apple Blossom 10k - Westminster VA
05/28/07 Dakota Ridgerunner - Boulder Boulder - Boulder CO
05/28/07 Jim24315 - Marin Memorial Day 10k - Kentfield CA
07/01/07 spankee - HBC Canada Day Run - Ottawa
07/04/07 kdgmusic1 - Peachtree - Atlanta GA
08/04/07 bobscamman - Beach to Beacon 10k - Portlland ME
08/05/07 gcklo - Alameda Parks - Alameda CA
08/05/07 Jim24315 - Alameda Parks - Alameda CA
08/05/07 norrin radd - Alameda Parks - Alameda CA
11/11/07 JasonsDrivingForce - Old Reliable - Raleigh NC
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SUB-40 HOPEFULS: 1CandoKid
bhearn
bonesheal
bizenyaki
brook trout
bruncie
Dakota Ridgerunner
DianeNJ
dredd
dtoce
Gazelle2007
GoDawgGo
JasonsDrivingForce
Jim24315
joev9
jtv
kcordloh
kdgmusic1
KudzuRunner
Mailbox Head
nocknee
norrin radd
paulmitch
Pete OBoyle
RRainey
Southern Man
spankee
stovaleani
swindrum
Tchuck
TheHerbinator
thereshegoes
WhatAKeepah [This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Oct-16-2007).]
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laker
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-02-2007 01:16 PM
Good luck Jim, having goals makes it all worthwhile. Whether you achieve this one or not, enjoy the chase! In any case, hopefully there will be no more extended down periods. Remember, you're an inspiration for alot of younger runners.
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bhearn
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-02-2007 01:50 PM
OK, I'm in again. Missed it by the narrowest of margins last year, running a 40:00.00.I'm training for Boston again, using the same program (Pfitzinger 18/70) I did last year, but, of course, I'm a year older, so we'll see. Still, I injured my Achilles near my peak condition last year, which hurt my later times. Hopefully this time around I can be more careful. I agree that 10K is a tough distance. Being a marathoner, I don't view it as an endurance race, but running hard all the way makes it a real challenge for me. 5K is even harder from my perspective. For me, the half marathon is about the ideal race distance. I prefer actually running marathons, but there is such a massive training commitment that goes along with them. Good luck, Jim. Comparing our (recent) times, we're pretty close -- except for the 20 years I have on you! Your older times are numbers I could only dream of. Bob
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-02-2007 06:47 PM
I'm in, again. Great thread last year, Jim. Although I believe in taking "comparable performances" as provided by calculators with a grain of salt, I'm impressed by the job done by the calculator at Run-Down.com. When I plug in 40:00 as a 10K performance, I'm given a whole spectrum of comparable performances at different distances, as predicted by four different calculators, along with an average of those four. If you scan down to 5K, for example, you'll notice that the calculators range from 18:59 to 19:17, with the average of the four calculators coming in at 19:10. What I like about this is that it makes space for outliers while giving you a general sense of whether your sub-40 ambitions are realistic. If you've just run 19:05, for example, your ambitions are quite realistic. If you haven't yet broken 19:30, they're probably not. (I ran 19:10 in a 5K here at Ole Miss--a race I won--but it was only 2.8 miles long. No calculator can take responsibility for unrealistic ambitions based on badly-measured 5K courses.) Anyway, here's some mind candy to chew on. Y'all may want to track down the original calculator at the Run-Down website; it's a good 'un. Performance Predictors Your average 400m [split] pace is 96.00 seconds. The Purdy Points for 10k in 40:00 is 499.36
VO2 Max based on this performance is 51.94 ml/kg/min and VO2 at this pace (91.38% of max) is 47.46ml/kg/min. This performance is equivalent to:
Distance Purdy VO2 Max Cameron Riegal Average
100m 12.82 18.38 9.33 18.21 14.68
200m 26.31 37.16 25.25 37.96 31.67
400m 1:00.36 1:15.93 1:03.50 1:19.14 1:09.73
800m 2:22.50 2:37.92 2:29.27 2:45.00 2:33.67
1k 3:06.32 3:20.89 3:14.16 3:29.03 3:17.60
1500m 4:59.08 5:12.89 5:09.22 5:21.27 5:10.61
1600m 5:22.40 5:35.92 5:32.56 5:44.02 5:33.73
1 Mile 5:24.58 5:38.09 5:34.75 5:46.15 5:35.89
3k 10:54.45 11:09.88 11:05.49 11:09.82 11:04.91
3200m 11:42.66 11:58.45 11:53.70 11:57.25 11:53.01
2 Mile 11:47.16 12:02.99 11:58.21 12:01.69 11:57.51
4k 14:56.01 15:13.30 15:07.65 15:08.65 15:06.40
3 Mile 18:17.73 18:35.53 18:29.96 18:29.19 18:28.11
5k 18:59.75 19:17.59 19:12.16 19:11.12 19:10.15
8k 31:27.80 31:37.54 31:36.35 31:34.47 31:34.04
6 Mile 38:31.54 38:33.01 38:32.99 38:32.59 38:32.53
10k 40:00.00 40:00.00 40:00.00 40:00.00 40:00.00
12k 48:40.00 48:30.53 48:29.15 48:31.68 48:32.84
15k 1:01:52.64 1:01:30.00 1:01:22.82 1:01:28.65 1:01:33.53
10 Mile 1:06:46.30 1:06:17.66 1:06:07.73 1:06:14.29 1:06:21.49
20k 1:24:15.49 1:23:37.75 1:23:18.36 1:23:23.84 1:23:38.86
Half Marathon 1:29:15.52 1:28:32.82 1:28:11.49 1:28:15.37 1:28:33.80
Marathon 3:08:24.65 3:04:37.72 3:07:24.53 3:04:00.48 3:06:06.84
100k 8:15:21.83 7:25:10.45 8:41:51.05 7:39:15.69 8:00:24.76
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paulmitch
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-02-2007 07:03 PM
Good luck everyone this is a good site as well from my old running club. http://www.runningforfitness.org/rp.php I like the average from everyone. those times work best.[This message has been edited by paulmitch (edited Jan-02-2007).]
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Southern Man
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-02-2007 08:14 PM
Count on another returning runner for your group. I never really got a shot to run one in top shape last year, but I don't think I was going to get it anyway. I was probably sub 41.I'm starting off the year with some PF problems, so it will be a while before I can really get cranking, but if I can get healthy and string some decent mileage together than a natural rate of progression should make a sub-40 a very reasonable goal. Southern Man ------------------
We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-02-2007 08:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by laker:
Good luck Jim, having goals makes it all worthwhile. Whether you achieve this one or not, enjoy the chase! In any case, hopefully there will be no more extended down periods. Remember, you're an inspiration for alot of younger runners.
Thanks Laker. It means a lot, especially coming from a runner of your caliber.
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-03-2007 02:56 AM
Good to see so many returnees commit to another year. It would be especially gratifying to see those who have had to work so long to finally break through.My first serious attempt might be on Jan 14. For months I have been pointing to Cal 10 mile on that day, but I have since learned that they have added a new 10k this year. I sent an email to the race director to find out if the new course has been certified yet--I know that the 10-mile has. If so I might try it, but will probably wait until last minute before choosing between 10k and 10-mile. I feel that I'm set to run 6:45's for 10 miles, which would smash my PR of 68:41 set last year there, but the 6:26 pace needed for a sub 40 10k would be much more difficult, even though the distance is almost 4 miles less.
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-03-2007 01:47 PM
Just to throw something different into the mix, I'm going to recommend that those who haven't yet read Chris Lear's RUNNING WITH THE BUFFALOES order a copy from Amazon and get cracking. It's a fascinating day-by-day study of the 1998 U of Colorado XC team on their quest for NCAA glory.In some ways it makes hash of those who argue for controlled heart-rate LSD training; these young bucks seem to go hard every single day, until something breaks, and "hard," in this context, is pretty....sick. 20-milers at 6:00 pace and below--for Goucher, at least. On the other hand, you might read the book and decide that Mark Wetmore, coach, has single-handedly vindicated the somewhat more moderated training model of John Kellogg, since most members of the team break down at some point. This may be very effective training in the short run, but one of a coach's jobs, it seems to me, is to rein in testosterone-crazed 20-year olds and teach them the true meaning of recovery runs. In any case, it's a gripping account, with a devastating tragedy smack in the middle, and it does have much to teach runners like us--even a 48-year old like me. Learning its lessons requires that one read against the grain sometimes, seeing ways in which Wetmore, for all his success, lets his boys destroy themselves as often as outdo themselves. But there are a host of useful training lessons here. In particular, you begin to get a sense of how various training modalities--repeat miles, fartlek, neuromuscular training through faster-than-race-pace repeats--actually work in the course of a season. Since these guys are basically training for 5-mile and 10,000 meter races, the training paces Wetmore puts them through have something to teach slower runners like us. And there's a thrill, of course, in watching over Goucher's shoulder as he slams down 6 x mile in 4:48, or whatever he does. Since I'm talking about good reading for runners, I'll also mention the portrait of Juma Ikangaa in Michael Sandrock's TRAINING WITH THE CHAMPIONS. (I think that's the title; could be off a word or two.) I've always loved Ikangaa's motto, "The will to win is nothing without the will to prepare," but I had no idea just what his training was about. His regular Sunday long run was 30-35 miles at 6:00 pace. He often averaged over 200 miles a week. "You must train fast to race fast" was something else he often said. He won something like 8 out of the 35-odd marathons he entered, most of them against very strong fields, and came in second almost as many times. When I've got the book handy, I'll post the one week of training that Sandrock gives. It's pretty staggering. Still, some of Toshiko Seko's long runs put Ikangaa's to shame. Eight hours? I believe that Seko sometimes put in runs that long. Sorry for the marathon hijack. I'm glad I've put marathons aside this spring! Think speed!
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dtoce
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-03-2007 05:07 PM
I'm in again, Jim!
First attempt won't be until April or so, when the weather and my schedule lighten up a bit, but I will put the effort into training and expect to breakthrough this year, for sure.(Kudzu- Great books. I have several by C. Lear. I also like the Alan Webb book, sub4:00 Mile or something like that...I read these and dream...sigh) Best of luck to all in the chase for 39:xx! ------------------
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norrin radd
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-03-2007 05:22 PM
I'd like to sign up as a new sub-40 hopeful for 2007. I'm a little out of my league at the moment but hopefully I'll improve to match my ambition.
I started running in July 2006, although I've always kept fairly fit, and used to run a bit when I was in my 20's. I'm now 42 and I finished the year with a 19:51 5k (race on a flat, certfied, course) and a 40:53 10k (time trial on the track keeping a very even pace) both at the end of December.
I'm currently thinking that my first attempt at a sub-40 10k will be at the end of March or April (same 10k race at the end of each month).
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Tchuck
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-03-2007 06:10 PM
I am in again. I believe I was in sub 41 min shape in November and feel I will continue to progress throughout winter with my aerobic threshold and critical velocity rep work outs so that in late May and Mid June I will give it a shot. I may race one sooner also but don't have a plan. The other issue is certified courses. There is a 10K in early May but last time I ran it in 39:30 and Garmin said 5.9 miles. Geez! My plan is to run my same 25 miles per week and edge up toward 30 (I hope) for a few weeks in late April/early May as prep for 1/2 marathon in Mid/Late May and see where that takes me and then more specific 5K/10K work in mid/late summer when it is difficult to race your best because of warmer weather. If it doesn't happen in spring I will go for it in the fall. ------------------
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bizenyaki
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-03-2007 06:22 PM
I'm in. I started running in July after a 20-year break. I ran a 47:35 10k in October, and then a 20:20 5k (which could have been faster) New Years Eve.I've got a 10 planned early May (downhill most of the way), on July 1 (flat) and MAYBE one while we're on vacation in Japan in March (I'm a bit worried about that one - the race I'm looking at had 179 entries last year and a male winning time of 31:52 - at least it'll be fast. Plus I'll probably be getting way too much attention as the only white guy in the race). My plan - increase mileage and speed as much as safely possible over the next 4 months. My times have been dropping pretty dramatically over the past 2 months, so I figure it's do-able.
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joev9
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-04-2007 08:28 AM
i am in (i think). my 5K was only 19:45 in November, so i have a bit of work to do for that sub 40 10K. but, what the heck, i will give it a shot. first attempt probably won't be until the first week in May.
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brook trout
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-04-2007 08:36 PM
Well, I'm in again! I contributed to the old thread, but never even got a chance to run a 10K last year, in the end. I don't think I was ever in sub-40 shape, though, so no matter. I injured myself with some marathoning adventures which ended my season, and learned a few lessons in over-reaching.I'm in light running mode right now - trying to lose weight (not easy to do this time of year), but would like to be in the low 150s before I start running hard and racing again. ------------------
brook trout my profile
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-04-2007 10:25 PM
Very good group we have developing. Some tough returnees and promising new blood as well. I don't see anyone one the list who doesn't have the potential to break the barrier this year. I'm going to post this eqivalent times chart before we go onto another page. This way, we can always come back to page 1 to find it. Kudzu, I borrowed parts of yours, pared it down, and added McMillan and Tinman. So the averages include those along with the ones you had. When we need extreme detail we can always refer to yours. 
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Southern Man
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-04-2007 10:38 PM
Well, that chart clarifies my beliefs about my fitness last fall. I was never in shape to hit those times. Not far off of them, but not close enough to believe I had any realistic shot at 40. This is the year, though. Have to stop making excuses and work on my weight, though.SM
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We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.
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thereshegoes
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-05-2007 01:45 PM
Oh what the heck. I'll join too. I think I'm a long shot. I've run one 5k in 19:42 and a 5 miler in 32:54. Also, I don't think I'll be able to run a 10k until May at the earliest. However, I'll be training hard for a half at the end of Feb and Boston in April so maybe I'll be able to carry the bump in my fitness level I'll gain from marathon training through a month and kick butt on a 10k like I did last fall with the 5k. Plus, someone needs to represent us ladies around here! 
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paulmitch
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-05-2007 03:57 PM
There is a 10K in Central Park in June called the Healthy Kidney that is usually a fast course. Hopefully you'll do it before then. However, it draws an elite field and is usually alot of fun. Craig Mottram has won the last two. http://www.nyrr.org event calender should be in June like every year, or May. Then again they are changing alot of race dates so who knows.[This message has been edited by paulmitch (edited Jan-05-2007).]
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Southern Man
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-05-2007 05:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thereshegoes:
Oh what the heck. I'll join too. I think I'm a long shot. I've run one 5k in 19:42 and a 5 miler in 32:54. Also, I don't think I'll be able to run a 10k until May at the earliest. However, I'll be training hard for a half at the end of Feb and Boston in April so maybe I'll be able to carry the bump in my fitness level I'll gain from marathon training through a month and kick butt on a 10k like I did last fall with the 5k. Plus, someone needs to represent us ladies around here!
There She goes, Those times are very similar to mine. Probably indicate about 41 fitness, but with only a little improvement you and I will both get there. Southern Man ------------------
We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.
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thereshegoes
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-06-2007 01:22 PM
Hey Southern Man. I remember when you predicted I'd run a sub 35 for a 5 miler and I thought you were nuts until I did it the next day! So, if you think I can do it I think I can too! I saw you said you are struggling with PF. I hope it clears up soon. Any plans for Spring races yet?
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Tchuck
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-06-2007 02:18 PM
Southern,What are you doing for your PF? I am sure some rest an icing.
Couple suggestions of what I used to do with my clients that worked very well in order of preference.
1. One leg standing. Just stand for 1 - 2 minutes or longer many times a day and grab onto floor with foot. This strengthens fascia and flexor tendons. This helped many clients when nothing else did.
2. Damp Towel scrunches - repeated reps of rolling a towel into a ball with foot/toes
3. Cushioned heel cup in the shoe ------------------
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Southern Man
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-06-2007 04:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tchuck:
Southern,What are you doing for your PF? I am sure some rest an icing.
Couple suggestions of what I used to do with my clients that worked very well in order of preference.
Thanks for suggestions. I am following some of them but have made one change, that I guess is somewhat controversial. 1. Rest
2. Ice
3. Exercises and Rolling
4. Switching to running all my runs in flats. This has helped immensely and the acute PF pains have almost disappeared, but I am being slow in a ramp-up, as it has caused tight calves and I am having to be very careful about stretching them. Also I can tell it will take some time to strengthen my arches. This was a change that I have been committed to making for some time, as I have been dealing w/ mild but somewhat chronic PF for about six months. When it flared up and threatened to become something more in December it really forced my hand. No races scheduled, but I will probably run Charlottesville 10 miler in late March and Apple Blossom 10k the first weekend of May. I love those races, but I don't know if I will be in any kind of shape to seriously race at a PR or not. I'm taking the attitude that it takes as long as it takes. Southern Man ------------------
We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.
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Tchuck
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-06-2007 05:07 PM
Running in flats should have some positive effects as would barefoot running but not everyone can do it. You can. Heavier runners would have a more difficult time. Other injuries could result, but what works for one may not for another.....Glad you are improving and having patience------------------
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nocknee
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-07-2007 05:57 PM
Okay, I'm in. I haven't actually raced this distance, so I may be sticking my neck out. My half-marathon in Seattle was 1:36, but that was quite hilly, so I think maybe it is doable.
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