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2007 Sub 40 10K Goal Thread

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Author	Topic: 2007 Sub 40 10K Goal Thread
Southern Man Cool Runner	posted Jan-27-2007 11:27 AM Thought I would post an update. I have been running about 2 times a week up until this week. This week I am about ready to declare myself healed and back to training mode. My feet don't hurt from PF anymore, though I can tell I am still strengthening my arches. This week I will run (counting tomorrow) a little bit over 40 miles. The average pace is pretty good, as I ran 10.5 miles this morning at 7:32 pace. All these miles have been in Nike Waffle Racers. I think I've settled on a racing schedule, going to start registering this weekend, as one of them goes up in price on Feb. 1. I will be running: Shamrock 1/2 marathon March 18th sub 1:30 Charlottesville 10 miler March 31st sub 67 Apple Blossom 10k First Sat in May sub 40 I know those times aren't exactly in line, but I am counting on some improving fitness over that time and also picked a good, round time for my goals. I am going to start increasing mileage and start some tempo runs after one more week. It will be a challenge to get enough good long runs in prior to Shamrock 1/2. Edited to add: Also wanted to report that I ran a 5k on New Year's Eve in 19:39. I really thought the course was short as my feet were hurting and I didn't feel like I ran that fast. However, after talking to a bunch of fellow runners they all felt the course was reasonably accurate, so I guess it serves as a mark of where I was at then. Southern Man ------------------ We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along. [This message has been edited by Southern Man (edited Jan-27-2007).] IP: Logged
KudzuRunner Cool Runner	posted Jan-29-2007 09:22 AM I'm happy to report that tuscaloosarunner and I made virtual community real when I drove from Oxford, MS to Crimson Tide Land (175 miles) on Friday for a Saturday morning race, the Ricky Harrison 10K. A beautiful morning for a race: calm, clear, sunny, about 35 degrees. The certified course was reasonably flat but not what I'd call fast; it was a fairly convoluted out-and-back that involved dodging off a flat local secondary highway twice to make heart-shaped loops on interior roads, each of which had many twists and turns. TR came in 5th OA; I assume he'll post below. I came in 9th OA in 41:12, twenty-four seconds off my PR. I went out in 6:30, felt great, and saw my next five splits read 6:45, 6:43, 6:35, 6:37, 6:39. Here's the curious thing: my GPS, at the finish, read 6.49 miles. A certified 10K, with all the tangents run properly--and I truly did try to run them properly--should of course read 6.21 miles. The course map, which has the Alabama certifying number and is a model of clarity and precision, actually shows the tangents. So what happened? I should note that I turned off my auto lap function and hit each well-marked split as I passed it. My first split read .99, but each successive split was off: 1.03, 1.05, etc. Mile five registered 1.14. Now, I've run a lot of races with this unit, and I went back and checked every race dating back to April 29th, which is the oldest stored run on the thing. None of them was off by this much. In a half marathon, out and back, that I ran in Memphis in November, every split was either .99, 1.00, or 1.01. Again: what happened? What's a runner to do when a certified course registers more than a quarter of a mile long on a GPS device worn during the race? It seems to me that there are three possibilities: 1) I didn't run the tangents nearly as effeciently as I thought I did, meaning that I ran somewhat more than 6.21 miles, and somewhat faster than 6:38 pace average. My final time stays the same, but I have the consolation of knowing that I'm in better shape than the final time claims. I've also learned a lesson, which is that a course with this many twists and turns isn't a PR course. 2) My GPS erred, thanks to all those twists and turns, and registered more mileage on each measured mile than I actually ran. This is certainly possible. When I've run on fairly small loops--400 meter track, half a mile--I notice that my GPS seems to register slightly too much mileage. Still, it's hard to believe that I gained almost three-tenths of a mile. 3) I was misdirected on the course or somehow ran a little extra. Since this happened to me at a race here in Oxford on a certified course--a cop forced us to take a wrong turn, which turned out, when I measured it with both bike and GPS the following day, to be exactly .10 miles; a solid tenth of a mile--it might have happened on this course, which was sprinkled with course monitors telling us which way to turn, but which, around the 5K point, veered through a parking lot with no guidance. I'm not sure about this, frankly. Might have happened in mile 5; probably didn't happen in the other miles and isn't, in any case, needed to explain the small mileage overages. Fact is, I'll never know. I ran as hard as I was capable of running; I surely lost time due to the tangents, as did everybody else. Great race, great t-shirt, great day for racing. Still, next time I see the words "fast, flat, certified," I won't simply take them at face value if I'm looking to notch a PR. I'll also do my best to check out a copy of the course map first and make sure we're not talking about nonstop turns. And when I DO find myself in a race with that many turns, I'll remember that the responsibility for running them as economically as possible rests on me--especially when the race map diagrams them all out, as this map, to its credit, did. The Azalea Trail 10K in Mobile in late March remains, for this reason, an ideal race: the whole thing takes place on about six long straightaways. Best part of the whole thing was hanging out with tuscaloosarunner and talking shop. Hey Joseph, what was the name of that breakfast place? Awesome. [This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Jan-29-2007).] IP: Logged
bonesheal Cool Runner	posted Jan-29-2007 10:52 AM I find that the more turns I make, the less accurate my gps is. It usually measures 400 meters as .26 or .27 on the track. I've been so frustrated with it in races that I just wear a watch now. ------------------ My Profile My Log IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Jan-29-2007 11:05 AM My Forerunner 205, supposedly one of most accurate, measures 20 laps on 400-meter track as 5.23 miles. It does a better job on straightaways. IP: Logged
tuscaloosarunner Cool Runner	posted Jan-29-2007 11:17 AM Hey Kudzu: Great to meet up w/ you as well. Good to put a face to an electronic name, so to speak. The name of the breakfast place was Waysider, which from the back parking lot, looks like a rundown shed forever washed in clouds of grease. Yum...Southern breakfasts... That course is a bear with all the turns, no doubt. Bu here was the pleasure: it's a course where good racing pays off: someone was with me for about the first two miles or so, and once I started hitting the curves, it was a good place to surge and "hide" so to speak. In other words, you can break people on this kind of course. That said, I got broken by the guy in front of me. Never could quite get up to him. I ran, for the record, 37:54--not too bad for an early race for me, though would've been faster if I held back a little. Live and learn. Now, back to the shop: time to put some more miles in. Kudzu, I'll let you know if II'm coming up to Memphis to do that Master's Track Meet in April. Hope to meet others out there sometime... Best, Trunner ------------------ My User Profile [This message has been edited by tuscaloosarunner (edited Jan-29-2007).] IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Jan-29-2007 12:38 PM Kudzu Not all flat courses are created equal, even if they are accurately measured. Here are a few things I've noticed that can make a real difference 1. footing - dirt and gravel can slow you down by a minute or even 2. 2. turns - lots of turns break up your momentum and make it harder to find your groove 3. wide open spaces - some layouts are just more susectable to winds. There are some around here by the bay with no trees around that can be windy, where as a mile or so away it is only a light breeze. After slowing the 2nd mile, you gradually got back into a decent groove. I thing that you will find that this race did you some good. IP: Logged
norrin radd Cool Runner	posted Feb-01-2007 11:48 PM I know that everyone is individual and that every case is unique, but, having said that, what would you all consider to be the key workout for cracking the sub-40 10k? By this I mean that when I was looking at the sub-20 5k as a target I read the postings and got a lot of consensus that an interval workout of 5 x 1000m in under 4min each was key (and it worked for me). The consensus I got from reading this group is that increasing mileage is key. What about the speedwork - just keep increasing the speed of the intervals? I'm currently doing the same workout but with each 1k under 3.50. My current recovery is about 90s but what worked last time was to gradually reduce this recovery to under 60s. Somewhere around there I felt it was easier to just keep going than to stop and start and then I knew I was ready to race. I feel like this workout will prepare me for a faster 5k but is there something better I should be doing for a sub-40 10k or will increased mileage take care of the rest? IP: Logged
Southern Man Cool Runner	posted Feb-02-2007 06:51 AM I think it depends on if you are coming from it from a speed background (5k) and moving up, or from a strength based background. I consider myself mostly a marathoner. I want to make the 40 min, but I don't want to do lots of fast intervals. I concentrate on total mileage and good long tempo runs (6-7 miles at half-marathon pace) as my bread and butter workouts most of the year. Specific sessions for a 10k as I get closer to the goal race will be 5x1000 at 5k race pace (~6:10) 2 min rest; and 6xmile at 10k goal pace w/ 90sec rest. I will only do about 4 or so interval sessions, but I will concentrate on doing a good number of striders during the week. I think I have the strength if I can get the pacing down and work on turnover. Southern Man ------------------ We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along. IP: Logged
tuscaloosarunner Cool Runner	posted Feb-02-2007 06:52 AM quote: Originally posted by norrin radd: I know that everyone is individual and that every case is unique, but, having said that, what would you all consider to be the key workout for cracking the sub-40 10k? By this I mean that when I was looking at the sub-20 5k as a target I read the postings and got a lot of consensus that an interval workout of 5 x 1000m in under 4min each was key (and it worked for me). The consensus I got from reading this group is that increasing mileage is key. What about the speedwork - just keep increasing the speed of the intervals? I'm currently doing the same workout but with each 1k under 3.50. My current recovery is about 90s but what worked last time was to gradually reduce this recovery to under 60s. Somewhere around there I felt it was easier to just keep going than to stop and start and then I knew I was ready to race. I feel like this workout will prepare me for a faster 5k but is there something better I should be doing for a sub-40 10k or will increased mileage take care of the rest? Are you doing any Lactic Threshold work? It's important, especially w/ 10k-Half Mary... IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Feb-02-2007 10:24 AM These are the ones from last year's thread who did it. As you can see, the bias is heavily towards strength training--solid mileage for all: sparkage 38:46 4/2/06 - came off 6 solid 45-55 mpw, HM 1:27 GoDawgGo 39:53 4/1/06 - followed 70-mile wk, HM 1:28 baggio16 39:36 4/0906 - over 240 miles per month pays off MRCT 39:58 4/15/06 - 50 mpw since March 1, had 18:50 5k last fall dholm 39:42 4/16/06 - marathon training/race, 19:11 5k, bingo! MRCT 39:27 4/30/06 - 2nd sub-40 this month rafv 38:03 11/04/06 - NEW RECORD for this thread cprior 38:21 12/02/06 - came off a steady string of improving races slimfastshady 38:46 12/10/06 Dublin Port Tunnel (watch time-official results pending) _________________________________________________ HONORABLE MENTION: bhearn 40:00 4/23/06 - you can't come any closer than this but it doesn't start with a "3". Nice try, Bob! See you in '07. IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Feb-02-2007 10:30 AM Three weeks ago I ran 10 miles in 66:31, which is sub-40 for 10k on some of the charts and close on the others. I rarely have done any training at faster than 10k pace, usually slower. It's been mostly tempos, longer intervals, hills, and races. IP: Logged
MRCT Cool Runner	posted Feb-02-2007 12:51 PM Last winter my goal was to break 40:00 and I did it in April two times, as Jim reported in his summary. This year I am going to run sub 36:00 in April. Looking back at my log book I think the main reason for the improvement was mileage and hills. By upping my weekly mileage to 45-50 I was able to add strength in the latter stages of my races at all distances. I also ran a tempo workout usually once a week. I ran the tempo workouts pretty fast but kept it to around 20 minutes. Also, on most of my Sunday long runs (long for me is 12-15 miles, I am not a marathoner, yet) I would run a progression run and finish up at faster than 10k pace. Being able to finish that strong on a solo training run at 7:00 a.m. on Sunday mornings, when I was exhausted from the run and the weekly training, gave me the confidence and psychological boost I needed in races. Now that I have been in the 60 mpw range for the last 10 weeks, I seem to keep getting stronger. My goal is to hammer a Spring 10k at 5:45 pace, and run sub 17:00 in the 5k and then shoot for a 1:20 half marathon in June. I just turned 40, so I am officially in the masters category, which is not necessarily a bonus in the longer races. By the way, running doubles is a great way to get weekly mileage up and help with recovery. I don't buy the notion that you shouldn't run doubles unless you are at 70 mpw. On my recovery days now I run 5 in the morning and 5 at lunch and my legs feel great the following day. If I ran 10 in one run it would take too much out of me. Keep your recovery runs very slow. I run mine at 8:30 to 9:00 pace most of the time. Although I have to admit that when I am forced to use the treadmill I have increased my recovery pace a lot to get the run over with sooner. I can't handle the boredom of the treadmill for too long. IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Feb-03-2007 10:41 AM Good to have you drop by, MRCT I've noticed your progress on other threads since you graduated from ours. Keep up the good work. IP: Logged
Southern Man Cool Runner	posted Feb-03-2007 10:58 AM quote: Originally posted by Jim24315: Good to have you drop by, MRCT I've noticed your progress on other threads since you graduated from ours. Keep up the good work. I agree, helpful advice. Thanks. Southern Man ------------------ We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along. IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Feb-03-2007 01:44 PM quote: Originally posted by MRCT: Now that I have been in the 60 mpw range for the last 10 weeks, I seem to keep getting stronger. My goal is to hammer a Spring 10k at 5:45 pace, and run sub 17:00 in the 5k and then shoot for a 1:20 half marathon in June. I don't know what your feeling is about this, but I believe that the sub-17 is the most difficult, with the 1:20 HM being easiest. With your mileage base and type of workouts that you do, I think you'll be able to run 10k in low 35's (5:40 pace) and HM <1:18 if you can break 17 for 5k. IP: Logged
MRCT Cool Runner	posted Feb-03-2007 07:10 PM Jim, I forgot to add that I am almost at the 17:00 goal in 5k. A month ago I ran a 3.05 mile race in 16:59, a 5:34 pace. The first 1/2 mile was downhill, then flat until mile 3, and then two good hills before a flat finish. Even with the hills in the last mile, I ran splits of 5:20, 5:48, 5:30, or something close to that. I think that equates to about 17:12 5k. If I can get it through my thick head when I hit the one mile mark that I have enough in the tank to maintain pace in the second mile, I think I can do it this Spring. And that race was done without any speedwork, only basebuilding, hills and tempo runs. For me the half marathon is still the most intimidating because of the distance and the higher risk of blowing up if I start too fast. On the plus side, 6:10-6:20 pace is starting to feel very comfortable to me. We'll see what happens, and I will report back with my results. IP: Logged
KudzuRunner Cool Runner	posted Feb-05-2007 09:36 AM Just checking in. I'm on the DL, sadly. Ran only 16 miles last week. My left hamstring, which hasn't been a problem for more than a year, took a beating in Tuscaloosa and just ain't right. I can't seem to jog more than a couple of miles at 10:30 pace. So training and racing plans are on hold for a couple of weeks....... I've treated this problem successfully in the past using Aleve (two tablets after every run) and ice, which I spread across a towel and then sit on. Brrrrrr. But it works, over time. I had a great run for the past year. Patience is a good thing to cultivate. I didn't really make a mistake in order to bring this on. I simply figured out a way to drive myself harder in two races, one week apart, than I'd ever driven myself. I became a racer, in spirit, for the first time, rather than simply a runner trying to notch fast times. So I'm at peace with the fact that I hammered myself into the ground. It's good to take a little unforced break now and then, anyway. There ARE things other than running in this good thing called life. To quote Ah-nold: I'll be back! IP: Logged
MichiganFlyer Cool Runner	posted Feb-05-2007 09:42 AM I am still trying to crack 20 for the 5k but for my 1st 40/10k entry....ran a 41:33 ten-k on the treadmill on Feb. 2. It was a PR by 68 seconds... 1st 5k was 20:49 and 2nd half was 20:44. So what once seemed impossible now starts to look somewhat doable if I keep the mileage up. [This message has been edited by MichiganFlyer (edited Feb-06-2007).] IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Feb-05-2007 10:13 AM Sorry to hear about the Hamstring, Kudzu. I had the same thing at the end of 2005. Rest days and soaking in epsom salts cleared it up for me. I had a thing on the back of my knee on the other leg that responded better to ice. I guess it all depends on the injury and the individual. Hope to see you back in action real soon. IP: Logged
Tchuck Cool Runner	posted Feb-05-2007 10:25 AM Kudzo Sorry about hammy. Have you tested its strength vs. other hammy. You can do so at gym with one leg curl w/ light weight. Rep out on good leg and try to do same with hurt leg. This will determine strain/tweak vs. pure injury. If no difference in strength, you will bounce back quick. ------------------ My Profile IP: Logged
joev9 Cool Runner	posted Feb-09-2007 02:20 PM Finally, finally, finally a quality workout to boost my confidence. I ran a hilly 10 mile workout today in just under 81 minutes in windy 16 degree weather. I am running a 10 mile race on Feb. 18 and was hoping to be under 75 minutes but after today's effort I am ratcheting the goal down to closer to 72 minutes or so. Not quite in the sub 40 10K range but given my lack of consistency since before Christmas, this is a big step in the right direction. IP: Logged
TheHerbinator Cool Runner	posted Feb-12-2007 06:32 AM quote: Originally posted by TheHerbinator: Please add me to the list. I saw this thread grow in 2006 and wanted to get involved, but felt I wasn't ready. In 2007 I have two goals. First a sub 1:30 half marathon -- I'm close and have at least two in the next two months to do it. Then next, a sub 40 10K which I'm giving myself plenty of time to prepare with a race in mind in December of 2007. I havent stayed active on the thread, but I'm still watching it and it looks like a lot of progress is being made. Just wanted to give an update that I broke 1:30 yesterday at the NYRR Bronx half. 1:29:16. That was my first milestone. Kudzu - my condolences on the injury. It looked like you were getting very close too. ------------------ Profile [This message has been edited by TheHerbinator (edited Feb-12-2007).] IP: Logged
Tchuck Cool Runner	posted Feb-12-2007 08:01 AM Good job Herb. Are you planning some 10ks and 5ks later also? You have broken 20 but 19 may be easily in reach for 5k and sub 41 easy for 10K. ------------------ My Profile IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Feb-12-2007 09:55 PM Nice run Herbinator, You do well on the stretchout, especially considering your size. Do you lift weights? You don't look that heavy in the picture. Tchuck, Herb would break 40 for 10k easily if he could run 19-flat for 5. A 41-min 10k and 19-min 5 are not even related. The most pessimitic predictor on page 1 chart of this thread says 19:00 5k = 40:00 10k. All the rest say sub-40 and I agree with them. A 19-flat 5k is far more difficult in my book. IP: Logged
TheHerbinator Cool Runner	posted Feb-12-2007 11:37 PM Thanks guys. I've only ran one 10K and 5K so far. The 10K was way back a year ago and I did 43:00. I've since had 10K splits on half marathons that were less than that. The one 5K I did was a messy course that even had a trail on it where I had to stop 3 times to figure out which direction to go. I managed 19:59 but walked away knowing I have it in me to do better. On top of that I was recovering from some post marathon related injuries. I dont know what my true 10K and true 5K would be, but this vdot running calculator has me at about 19:28 for the 5K and 40:21 for the 10K based on my half marathon time. Theres a 5K I might try my hand at here to see how close to 19 I can get. http://www.nyrr.org/races/2007/r0304x00.asp Jim- I never ran a 19min 5K. I lift some once a week. Nothing serious and more calisthenics than anything else. Not like I used to do though. I'm just big boned (cartman voice) ------------------ Profile [This message has been edited by TheHerbinator (edited Mar-08-2007).] IP: Logged

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