| Author |
Topic: 2007 Sub 40 10K Goal Thread |
TheHerbinator
Cool Runner |
 posted Jan-15-2007 05:58 PM
   
quote:
Originally posted by Jim24315:
Let me know if I missed anyone.
Please add me to the list. I saw this thread grow in 2006 and wanted to get involved, but felt I wasn't ready. In 2007 I have two goals. First a sub 1:30 half marathon -- I'm close and have at least two in the next two months to do it. Then next, a sub 40 10K which I'm giving myself plenty of time to prepare with a race in mind in December of 2007. ------------------
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DianeNJ
Member |
posted Jan-16-2007 04:36 PM
I, too, followed this thread last year, but was nowhere near ready to join. I was going to join the sub-20 5K thread, but I ran a huge 5K PR on New Year's Day in 19:27. So, I came here instead. My current 10K PR is 42:57. Looks like the soonest I'll be able to run a 10K is March 25. I'm not expecting to break 40, but it will give me a good indication of whether or not this is a realistic goal.
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-16-2007 04:49 PM
I got you covered, Herbinator. Welcome
Diane NJ,
I'm putting you on the list too. If you can run 19:27 for 5k you are getting into sub-40 territory already. It would be no surprese if you get it in March. Don't sell yourself short.
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-17-2007 06:10 PM
Just checking in. I've averaged 46 mpw the past two weeks; starting to strengthen. One modest change I've made in my training is to wear lightweight trainers on Wednesday's 10-miler, every week, so that my high-end runs and road fartlek runs benefit from stride mechanics that are pretty close to race-day stuff. No reinjured stress fractures so far.5K here in Oxford, MS this Saturday. Can't really trust the time, but should be a good chance to see where I am. I may join tuscaloosarunner in Tuscaloosa AL the following weekend and try to blast a 10K PR on a cold day. Any interest in the idea I suggested above: a thread-participant meet-up at the Azalea Trail Run in Mobile on 3/24? I've never seen a better, flatter, faster course. The competition is great, so there's always someone around to key off of. I'll be there, regardless.
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tuscaloosarunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-17-2007 07:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KudzuRunner:
Just checking in. I've averaged 46 mpw the past two weeks; starting to strengthen. One modest change I've made in my training is to wear lightweight trainers on Wednesday's 10-miler, every week, so that my high-end runs and road fartlek runs benefit from stride mechanics that are pretty close to race-day stuff. No reinjured stress fractures so far.5K here in Oxford, MS this Saturday. Can't really trust the time, but should be a good chance to see where I am. I may join tuscaloosarunner in Tuscaloosa AL the following weekend and try to blast a 10K PR on a cold day. Any interest in the idea I suggested above: a thread-participant meet-up at the Azalea Trail Run in Mobile on 3/24? I've never seen a better, flatter, faster course. The competition is great, so there's always someone around to key off of. I'll be there, regardless.
Kudzu: I may come down to Mobile for that race. It's about a 4 hr drive for me. I'll keep you posted. Hope to see you next Sat. Good luck @ your 5k.
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aurang
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-17-2007 08:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KudzuRunner:
Any interest in the idea I suggested above: a thread-participant meet-up at the Azalea Trail Run in Mobile on 3/24?
Why not run together? I'm sure there will be a lot of people around 40 minutes, but if any of you guys can go, you should try and get a group going for 40 minutes.
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bonesheal
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-17-2007 09:03 PM
Put my name on the list. This year I want to break 20 for 5k (my pr is a very-vulnerable 20:07), 40 in 10k, 1:30 in HM and BQ at 3:15 for the marathon. Last year I ran 35 mpw, this year I'm putting in 50+.------------------
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-18-2007 03:55 PM
You're right, Aurang. That's exactly what I had in mind. I actually suggested several pace groups: 40:00, 40:30 (mine!), 41:00. I just don't see me breaking 40 this spring. Of course, I did run a 4-miler at 6:25 pace last February, purely off of base training. That's 2/3rds of a sub-40 10K, near about. So perhaps I'm underestimating the possible. [This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Jan-18-2007).]
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-20-2007 05:03 PM
This morning I set a 5K PR of 19:32 on a course measured with a wheel and also with GPS by the Exercise Science folks here at Ole Miss. That converts to a 40:35 on McMillan's calculator, if I remember correctly. So I'll probably head down to Tuscaloosa in a week after all, and do my damndest to set a 10K PR there.
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tuscaloosarunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-20-2007 05:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KudzuRunner:
This morning I set a 5K PR of 19:32 on a course measured with a wheel and also with GPS by the Exercise Science folks here at Ole Miss. That converts to a 40:35 on McMillan's calculator, if I remember correctly. So I'll probably head down to Tuscaloosa in a week after all, and do my damndest to set a 10K PR there.
Kudzu, Congrats! Look forward to seeing you down here. Hope you can get your sub-40 here! See you soon...
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-21-2007 09:20 AM
Good one, KudzuYou are getting close enough to have a real shot at sub-40. It would only take marginal improvement from here. PR's are often followed by another one.
edited new word I made up ("marginable"); guess I've seen too many Bush interviews
[This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jan-21-2007).]
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-21-2007 02:48 PM
Sub-40 Poll:
1. Should a solo on the track count? yes or no
2. How about with a pacer? yes or no
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thereshegoes
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-21-2007 03:21 PM
Congrats Kudzu!! I bet you can beat 40 in a couple of weeks. Go for it!
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bonesheal
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-21-2007 08:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jim24315:
Sub-40 Poll:
1. Should a solo on the track count? yes or no
2. How about with a pacer? yes or no
I'd count it if I soloed on a track. I think it's pretty hard to run it alone. With a pacer, though, I'd put an asterisk on it.
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-21-2007 10:21 PM
Mostly easy week following hard race on SundayMon - 5 miles on grass loop at 8:50 pace Tue - 4 miles on grass at 9:00 Wed - 12 miles on rolling, paved trail at 8:15 Thur - day off Fri - 5 miles on grass loop at 9:00 Sat - 7 miles, 2 jog - 5 on grass loop at 8:50 Sun - 12 miles
AM: 7 on dirt trail with big hill in middle; untimed
PM: 5 on grass loop at 8:30 pace Week's Total - 45 miles 5k race on track planned for Saturday
[This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jan-21-2007).]
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bruncle
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-22-2007 07:09 PM
Count me in too. The 40:00 mark is long overdue for me, but I haven't run a good 10k since June last year. My 5k PB from August 2006 is 19:30, so I think I probably have a good shot at it. My next 10k will be on 4th March. I ran it last year and found it really flat and fast, so hopefully I'll be able to run at least sub 40 there. For training, I've been following a lydiardesque schedule. I'm doing a six month base training phase with three quality workouts: hill repeats, a 5k tempo run and a long progression run. I've got a question about tempo runs. I've noticed that a few people are doing tempo runs of longer than 20 minutes. Are there advantages/disadvantages to that? I'm assuming you'd have to run slower than you would for a 20 minute tempo run, so would that be as effective at working your LT? I'm gearing up for a half marathon, so maybe doing a longer distance at tempo pace (tempo intervals maybe?) would be the shot.
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tuscaloosarunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-22-2007 08:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bruncle:
I've got a question about tempo runs. I've noticed that a few people are doing tempo runs of longer than 20 minutes. Are there advantages/disadvantages to that? I'm assuming you'd have to run slower than you would for a 20 minute tempo run, so would that be as effective at working your LT? I'm gearing up for a half marathon, so maybe doing a longer distance at tempo pace (tempo intervals maybe?) would be the shot.
If you have Daniel's Running Formula, he has a chart on how to adjust pace for longer tempo runs. Me, I'm a fan of progressive tempo runs that do occassionally cross LT lines...
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Southern Man
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-22-2007 09:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bruncle:
I've got a question about tempo runs. I've noticed that a few people are doing tempo runs of longer than 20 minutes. Are there advantages/disadvantages to that? I'm assuming you'd have to run slower than you would for a 20 minute tempo run, so would that be as effective at working your LT? I'm gearing up for a half marathon, so maybe doing a longer distance at tempo pace (tempo intervals maybe?) would be the shot.
I can hold tempo pace pretty well for 40-45 minutes. It gets a little tough towards the end but not impossible. Obviously more time at the tempo pace is a greater stimulus. I use 10 mile pace. Southern Man
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Tchuck
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-22-2007 09:55 PM
I have done and am doing tempo runs that Tinman promotes after previously doing 20-25 min faster tempos. Tinman tempo is basically 45 - 60 sec. slower than marathon pace. I have gotten better results at all race distances by extending tempo run to 30-40 minutes. If you run higher miles you can progress further if you wish but stay at marathon pace. After a warm up I progress to around marathon pace (around 1 min slower than current 5K race pace for 10-15 minutes and then about 10 sec. faster for next 10 - 15 minutes and finish at half marathon pace the last stretch whatever that may be but I generally will not go faster than half marathon pace and not for too long on a longer tempo run. It is a progressive tempo run and they are great. I found the 20 min tempos too race-like. Beat me up too much I felt. The progressive tempos make you feel refreshed! These progressive tempo runs I give credit to for crushing my PR in the half marathon on my low 25 miles per week - felt strong. ------------------
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bonesheal
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-23-2007 08:13 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tchuck:
I have done and am doing tempo runs that Tinman promotes after previously doing 20-25 min faster tempos. Tinman tempo is basically 45 - 60 sec. slower than marathon pace.
45-60 sec slower than 5k pace ------------------
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-23-2007 10:13 AM
Although I've worked with Tinman for more than a year I've done what he calls fast tempo runs and slow tempo runs. The slow ones are what Tchuck is talking about, and the faster ones are about 30 sec per mile slower than 5k. I've tended to favor the 8k distance and the faster pace when doing just a tempo plus warmup and cooldown. However, I often do a mixture that includes a slower tempo (3 miles), some shorter reps and hill charges. I probably run slower than anybody here on my easy days though.Jim
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-23-2007 12:42 PM
In the discussion of tempo runs, it's important to remember that a near-elite runner would cover 4 miles in a 20-minute tempo run, where an ageing schlub like me would cover 3 miles.I think it's better to conceive of tempo runs as a range of stamina-pace runs paced anywhere from marathon-pace to slightly above threshold. The length and pacing of such runs depends on where you are in your training cycle and what distance you're going to be racing. There's no need to run 10 miles at MP if you're pointing towards a 5K. Similarly, there's no real need to run a 2-mile tempo run slightly above threshold if you're pointing towards a marathon. In general, tempo runs early in the training cycle will be slower than tempo runs later in the cycle. I run by HR and don't worry too much about pace. Based on a max HR of 199, I run MP tempos at an average HR of 168-170--stabilizing in the mid-160s after a mile or two, then slowly letting it rise to 170 or so, with the last couple of miles at 175. For half marathons--well, I just run progressive long runs of 14-18 miles. First half recovery/easy pace (for me, 9:00 - 9:20 pace; HR from 137 up to 150, average), with the return leg noticeably faster. I might average HR 160 and 8:30 pace on a moderate day, HR 173 with the last few miles at 7:30 pace and the final mile at 7:00 on a harder day. I race half marathons at 7:00 pace. For 10Ks/5K, I do a couple of different things:
1) 20-30 minutes at threshold (177-178, slowing slightly the moment I hit 180) 2) 4 miles / 30 minutes, alternating between slightly sub-threshold (175) and 10K pace (184-186). This is GREAT late base/early racing season training for 10Ks; it teaches you to relax at whatever pace you're hitting; it also teaches you to pick it back up. Teaches you to sense when you're below and above threshold. 3) 3 miles around a .5 mile loop: hard 400 (85-91 seconds; 3K pace or faster), 200 float, 200 pushing back to threshold (175); 6 x 400 altogether, with no real rest. I did this weeks 4, 3, and 2 before setting my 10K PR. Got faster each week at the same HR.
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-23-2007 12:44 PM
I should add that I run 10Ks at 6:35-6:40 pace and 5Ks at--well, I just ran one at 6:17 pace.
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tuscaloosarunner
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-26-2007 01:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KudzuRunner:
3) 3 miles around a .5 mile loop: hard 400 (85-91 seconds; 3K pace or faster), 200 float, 200 pushing back to threshold (175); 6 x 400 altogether, with no real rest. I did this weeks 4, 3, and 2 before setting my 10K PR. Got faster each week at the same HR.
That is a very good workout toward the end of a race preperation phase. Anything that gets you switching gears and working through fatigue. For the marathon, I've seen sets of in/outs: 400m@5kP, 400m@MP, all continuous. It's a bear... Regardless, any kind of run where a slower tempo pace can serve as a RECOVERY is pretty insane. [This message has been edited by tuscaloosarunner (edited Jan-26-2007).]
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Jan-26-2007 05:34 PM
One that seems to have helped me is following up a tempo run or slowish intervals with some some short hill sprints (30-sec each). The tempos where 3 and 4 miles at 6:50-7:00, and the interval workouts were:
3200 in 13:40, jog 400, 4 x 800 at 3:15 with 200 jog, then run over to hill 4-6 min and do hill sprints. I started with 4 sprints and worked up to 7 by 4th week. After this I had a couple much improved club races (4.76 hilly miles) and then raced 10 miles at 6:39 pace (66:31) 12 days ago.Recovery has been a little on the slow side since then, but have started to feel better last couple days. Will try a club 5k on track tomorrow morning. I'd be very happy to break my 60+ PR of 19:34 but am not that high on my chances. My longer race times usually don't translate to as fast at short distances as the charts say.
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