posted Oct-07-2007 10:42 PM               

I'm going to ADD you to the list--the list of graduates--rather than cross you off. No doubt you'll be bringing that time down a lot more when you catch better conditons.

Congratulations

Bob, I'm happy for you. Be sure to post a race report.

And PLEASE don't run a 10k so soon. I can relate completely to being so anxious, but there's not a doubt in my mind that you'll get there if you have some patience. Let yourself recover a bit and savor this one for a while. There will be less chance of getting hurt again you'll be capable of a faster 10k if you wait a few weeks.

Well done...and don't forget that report

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posted Oct-08-2007 03:31 PM            

Re the 10K, well, I'll play it by ear, see how I feel this week. Yes, I'll get there eventually, but the race this weekend looks to be my last chance this year for a local, flat, fast 10K. Before my 10K after Boston last year I had some niggling issues, that the 10K magnified into an injury. This time I will listen more carefully. Biggest concern right now is that the left calf is still in a fair amount of pain from locking up completely for several minutes during the post-race massage. Everything else feels great, though. I'll likely go out for a short run on Wednesday and see how it goes.

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posted Oct-08-2007 03:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
Gotcha covered, TSG. When you get some time, how about a little summary of your training these past few months and what you feel the keys have been.

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Haha. You mean you want my Tinman infomercial? I really think the key to my "success" (I use the word relative to myself and not in absolute terms) is consistency. I have done everything Tinman has scheduled for me with the exception of bagging a 10miler at 8 miles when I felt like utter poop one week. Other than that, pretty much to a T. As for the specifics. Tinman had me do 2 months of consistent 60ish mpw with a long run, a cv workout, and a Tinman tempo run. Then he had me do 2.5 months of marathon specific training. We bumped my miles up to 70-80 for August and then 75-90 in September. I switched from the CV/tempo program to two big workouts per week.

Like you, Jim, I run most of my miles at a slow 8:30ish pace and sometimes can't get much below 9:00. I behave and save the hard stuff for my workouts and the really hard stuff for races. I haven't run fast than half-marathon pace, save for some strides here or there, in over 2 months except for the 10k race.

After all this work over the summer, I feel like a monster. The 10k was over in a blink of my eye. I had so much fun that I don't have any regrets but it definitely makes me curious what I could have done if I wasn't a total moron out the gate and saved something for the last few miles. Heh. We'll see after my marathon I guess!

Good job Mailbox ! See you in Columbus!

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posted Oct-09-2007 12:03 AM               

Wow. That put a smile on my face when I read it at work. I decided to wait until I got nice and relaxed behind my home computer screen before responding. If you didn’t know already, I’m also in the Tinman stable. I think we’d be hard pressed to find a better coach anywhere.

Like you, I’ve also followed my schedule almost to the letter. I bagged one long run that I did in place of a light hill workout 2 days later, and replaced a scheduled 10k race with two 5k’s. Other than that I haven’t missed a beat. I believe that the paces are a critical part of making it work, and it’s a part of the program I try to be disciplined with.

For the past few months I’ve been on what I’d call a “Big Wednesday-Big Weekend” schedule. The big weekend is a longish workout, e.g. 12 miles total including 6 x 1600 at HM, then a long, slow run on Sunday (14-16 miles). On Wednesday it might be 12 miles with middle 6 at M pace, or if it’s during a race week, a light CV workout. I’ve been keying for a HM this coming Sunday, followed by a 30k on Nov. 11.

I’m liking your chances at Columbus at lot —75-90 mpw in September. You ARE a "monster", and I know you are doing it the right way. If you have some good weather I think you have a good chance to get very close to the 3-hour mark—definitely under 3:05. No pressure though

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posted Oct-09-2007 11:54 AM               

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posted Oct-12-2007 03:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
Hey TSG,

Wow. That put a smile on my face when I read it at work. I decided to wait until I got nice and relaxed behind my home computer screen before responding. If you didn’t know already, I’m also in the Tinman stable. I think we’d be hard pressed to find a better coach anywhere.

Like you, I’ve also followed my schedule almost to the letter. I bagged one long run that I did in place of a light hill workout 2 days later, and replaced a scheduled 10k race with two 5k’s. Other than that I haven’t missed a beat. I believe that the paces are a critical part of making it work, and it’s a part of the program I try to be disciplined with.

For the past few months I’ve been on what I’d call a “Big Wednesday-Big Weekend” schedule. The big weekend is a longish workout, e.g. 12 miles total including 6 x 1600 at HM, then a long, slow run on Sunday (14-16 miles). On Wednesday it might be 12 miles with middle 6 at M pace, or if it’s during a race week, a light CV workout. I’ve been keying for a HM this coming Sunday, followed by a 30k on Nov. 11.

I’m liking your chances at Columbus at lot —75-90 mpw in September. You ARE a "monster", and I know you are doing it the right way. If you have some good weather I think you have a good chance to get very close to the 3-hour mark—definitely under 3:05. No pressure though

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Tinman is great. He's got me doing things that I never thought I could do. At this point looking back I can't believe some of those weeks!!! I hope all that work pays off and that your predictions hold true. I'm still deciding whether I should just let it all hang out and go after the 2:59:59 or play it relatively safe and go for a mid to low 3:0x.

Good luck in your half!!! This winter we're going to need the sub 1:25 half thread!

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posted Oct-12-2007 04:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
Bob, I'm happy for you. Be sure to post a race report.

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Here it is:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010675.shtml

Warning, it is very long.

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posted Oct-12-2007 07:45 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by jrescpa:
I had an emergency appendectomy on Oct 1, so I'm out for a while just when I was getting ready to peak. Oh well, at least I'll live to run again. . The best I managed was the 20:02 5k but I should be running strong again by February.

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Tough luck Jonathan,

I had it way back in my 20's. There are a couple things I remember. The first was being in the Dr's office bent over in some of the worst pain I've ever had. The other was being all stitched up and trying to avoid laughing, which I wasn't always successful at. Boy, did that hurt. Otherwise it wasn't too bad getting over. I wasn't a runner then, so I can't say for sure, but I would think you'd be back in action well before February.

In any case, good luck and stay in touch.

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posted Oct-12-2007 08:20 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bhearn:
Here it is:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010675.shtml

Warning, it is very long.

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Come on, fellow 10ker's. This one's definitely worth a read. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

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posted Oct-13-2007 02:27 AM            

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posted Oct-13-2007 02:03 PM            

I ran an 18:30 today with the single stroller so that should translate to a sub 40:00 10K shouldn't it? Anyway, you can read about it here.

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010679.shtml

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posted Oct-14-2007 07:37 AM               

Travis,

You have really broken through here recently. Outstanding race!. I agree that you are surely in sub-40 shape now. My guess is high mid-high 38's, or at worst, low 39's.

Congratulations on breaking your 6-min mile goal for the 5k. That's a big one.

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posted Oct-14-2007 03:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
And PLEASE don't run a 10k so soon. I can relate completely to being so anxious, but there's not a doubt in my mind that you'll get there if you have some patience.

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Well... I ran it. I guess I wish I hadn't. Time was 40:18. Very frustrating. 50 degrees, flat, certified course, theoretically... however... still, I think the course might have long. Garmin said 10.3. Others' Garmins were similar. Long or not, I had those extra 20 seconds in me. The kilometer markers were definitely off. Several of them were off by 50-100 meters, and the Garmin measured 1.42 km from 9K to the end. I talked to several of the fastest people after the race; everyone thought it was a minute long. One guy said this was his first time over 40 this year. And these should have been PR conditions. Whether that's all psychology based on the bad 9K placement, I don't know.

I noticed on the way out that the 9K marker was going to be way longer than a kilometer from the finish, which pissed me off. Then I remembered that the course was supposed to be certified. 1, 2, and 3K seemed well placed, as I hit them in 3:58, 8:00, and 12:00, running about 3:58 pace per Garmin. 4 was way short. Uh-oh. OK, all I could do now was rely on the pace readout, and try to be conservative. I kept the average pace at 3:57 through 9K. I was sure by about 6K I would make sub-40. I felt way better than I did at 6K three weeks ago, and I was still on pace. So I thought. I did feel a little guilty, running reasonably comfortably through about 8, not willing to push it into the pain zone needlessly. I held pace through "9", then picked it up. I still thought I had a good 15-20 second cushion, and knew I had some kick in me for the finish. But when the finish line finally came into view, my watch said 39:30, and I knew I couldn't cover that distance in 30 seconds. I gave it all I had, pushing harder than I thought I could, and passing several people I hadn't figured on passing. But it wasn't enough.

Then, to add insult to injury... I was about to leave right away in disgust, but I waited long enough to look at the first finish-time printout. Huh, I was 2nd AG! I didn't think I'd had a shot at that; there were lots of very fast people here, some Olympians even. I'd looked at last year's times; I'd have placed 6th.

So I waited. And waited. Finally they had the awards ceremony. And... no AG award. Seems they "discovered" a few more M40-44 finishers. So, whole morning wasted. I just hope I didn't damage anything. Time will tell.

quote:

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Well done...and don't forget that report

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Looks like all the race reports have been lost, maybe due to the Active transition?

[This message has been edited by bhearn (edited Oct-15-2007).]

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posted Oct-15-2007 09:10 AM               

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010675.shtml

And boy, all that patience you had in your marathon went out the window after this 10k. How in the world can you expect to run your best a week after a marathon? You've had injury problems in last couple years too, and besides, 40:18 is a very decent time. You need a good scolding!

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posted Oct-15-2007 01:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
And boy, all that patience you had in your marathon went out the window after this 10k. How in the world can you expect to run your best a week after a marathon? You've had injury problems in last couple years too, and besides, 40:18 is a very decent time. You need a good scolding!

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Heh. Well... empirically, I have run my best 10Ks a week after a marathon. Now, my best two 10Ks, out of nine I can think of at the moment. Even though this past one was (it now appears) a quarter-kilometer long. I think there is some logic here: first, I should still be getting some of the rewards of peaking for the marathon, and my very light recovery week (two easy 4 milers) sort of puts me at the end of an extended taper. But in another couple of weeks, my fitness loss will overtake my taper/recovery, and I'd have to build back up to good racing shape.

Injury-wise, I listened very carefully to my body this week. Last year, I had a niggling issue or two post-Boston, that turned into an injury after the 10K. Also I was still coming off Achilles tendonitis then. This time, I felt great. Also, Boston last year was my 3rd marathon; Portland last week was my 8th. (I've run four this year, including two 13 days apart.) I can tell that my marathon recovery has gotten quicker, and I've been injury-free for over a year.

Finally, I know I'm in better shape now than when I ran 40:00.0 after Boston last year, and this was a flatter, faster (but unfortunately, longer) course. So, I think it's rational that I decided to go for it!

Having now convinced myself the course was a quarter-kilometer long, however, I'm drawing some satisfaction from the indication I could run ~39:20. Maybe I will yet have that big breakthrough sometime soon.

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posted Oct-15-2007 03:24 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bhearn:
Heh. Well... empirically, I [b]have run my best 10Ks a week after a marathon. Now, my best two 10Ks, out of nine I can think of at the moment.
[/B]

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Flawed logic. Just because you've run well the week after marathons in the past does not mean that you couldn't have run even faster if you had waited longer. I've done it too, several times, and should have been scolded too..."do as I say not as I do/did."

In any case it's good that you came out of it ok. You are very fit now and I expect that you will run some good ones in the coming months.

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posted Oct-15-2007 03:41 PM            

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posted Oct-16-2007 12:42 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by thereshegoes:
So, Jim. When were you going to tell us about that amazing half marathon you ran yesterday? I just checked the results. WOW!!!!!!!! Great job. You must be over the moon!!!!

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This I want to hear about! Please do tell!

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posted Oct-16-2007 07:56 AM               

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum13/HTML/011391.shtml

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posted Oct-16-2007 08:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
Hey you guys. It was a good race but not THAT great. I defintely appreciate your interest, though. Here's the link to race report I posted on B & B forum:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum13/HTML/011391.shtml

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Let us be the judge of that! Looks pretty outstanding to me! I only dream of running that time and I am half your age.

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posted Oct-16-2007 09:12 AM            

Can you put me down as a "10K Hopeful". November 11th - Old reliable, Raleigh NC.

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posted Oct-16-2007 09:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
Hey you guys. It was a good race but not THAT great. I defintely appreciate your interest, though. Here's the link to race report I posted on B & B forum:

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum13/HTML/011391.shtml

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Don't be so modest, Jim! You've had such a great run lately and all your hard work has paid off. That's a great thing!

Hope that pull doesn't keep you down for too long. What's next for you anyway?

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posted Oct-16-2007 11:16 PM               

You're on the list. Now all you have to do is go out there and run like you have been and we'll have another graduate. I'm still struck by how the sub 40's have been comming in these last few months. We didn't get our 2nd until the end of June and now we have 9. It shows what a half year of training can do, and also the benefits of helping each other stay motivated.

I read your report on the 18:30 again, and was glad to see that you are going to try some races without the stroller. I'm not trying to discourage you from pushing the kids--but only that you run some key races alone on flat courses to see what you can do. You are in your 30's now and will only be this young once. Also it would be good to see you build those miles up if you have the time. From my experience the single most important thing a runner can do who wants to improve is run more miles.

Good luck in the Old Reliable and stay in touch

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posted Oct-16-2007 11:24 PM            

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posted Oct-16-2007 11:30 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by thereshegoes:
Don't be so modest, Jim! You've had such a great run lately and all your hard work has paid off. That's a great thing!

Hope that pull doesn't keep you down for too long. What's next for you anyway?

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Next was...is(?) supposed to be a 30k in Clarksburg on Nov 11 that is part of the USATF Grand Prix series. Although doubtful now, it's not completely out of the quesion. The leg seems to be improving but it will be at least another day or 2 before I try test it. After that Tinman has suggested I take a little break before going back to base and rebuilding--this was before the pull.

I look forward to reading about Columbus. Weather looks touch and go, but so far so good on Sunday. I don't think you could be any more ready.

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