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Fall Marathon Trainer's Thread 12/3/06

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Author Topic:   Fall Marathon Trainer's Thread 12/3/06
Southern Man
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2006 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Southern Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

IN THE BOOKS

Pocatello 9/2
Jtshad 2:45 2:46:53

Tupelo 9/3
kudzurunner 3:30 3:39:40

Adirondack Marathon 9/17
Dr Wu 3:45 3:39:53

Fox Cities 9/24
WI MTP 2:43 2:45:58

Quad Cities 9/24
kestrou 3:20 3:42:05

Akron 9/30
Joplus 3:10 3:17

Twin Cities 10/1

Bugs34 4:30 4:06

St. George 10/7
Johnny J 2:53 2:47:07

Steamtown 10/8
AndyHass 2:24:00 2:33:48
Southern Man 3:15 3:16:04

Melbourne Marathon 10/8
TheSlowandtheFurious 3:05 DNS

Mohawk-Hudson 10/8

Dr. Wu 3:34 3:27:10

Westchester 10/8
TheHerbinator 3:20 3:18:35


Hartford 10/14

Yoginirunner 4:15 4:14:46

Columbus 10/15

Sportigirl 3:25 3:26:07
thereshegoes 3:25 3:25:31

Baystate 10/15
Dogberry 3:30 3:34


Long Beach 10/15
Pavman
Magritte 3:15 3:20:59

Des Moines 10/15

Runninlaw 3:40 3:37:18

Chicago 10/22
JSM 2:28 2:31:22
MikeBro 3:15
Spkoest 3:20 3:19:16
Hubitron 2:50 2:48:53
Kestrou 3:20 3:22:09
92heelgrad 3:20 3:38:38
cbc673 2:50
rivas 2:30 2:35:34

Mystic Country 10/22
Beatfreq 3:20 3:00:35

Detroit 10/29

corland14 4:00 4:06
jakey 3:15 3:34


Marine Corps 10/29
Lofcaudio 3:15 3:16:26


Cognac (France) 11/4
Jojox 3:30 3:49:28

NYC 11/5
TD Runner 2:35 2:41:09
dcv2002 3:10 3:06:16
Jpgarland 2:50 2:48:10
GreenMan 3:45 3:48:35


Richmond 11/11
TonyJones237 3:20
NurseSarahB 5:00
A6Runner 3:30

OuterBanks 11/12
Jaysoffian 3:30
Swatkins 3:50

Philly 11/19
jdmom3 2:46
eager runner 3:10
Doctor Wu 3:25 3:33:29
Sistergoldenhair TBD
BostonTodd 3:00 2:54:06
Rbmoose 2:45 2:45:48

Atlanta 11/23
Robert Wildes <3:35


UP THIS WEEKEND

St. Jude Memphis 12/2
BNAGamecock 4:45
Kudzu Runner 3:25

California International Marathon
GoDawgGo 3:00
S Agsten 3:05

Marathon of Palm Beaches 12/3
Nofret 3:30

Still to Come

Charlotte 12/9
Mainers 2:40
Bigdave10000 3:20

Vegas/Tucson 12/10
Jrescpa 3:20
WI MTP Have Fun
TommyL 3:10

Dallas White Rock 12/10
AML256 3:05

Honolulu Marathon 12/10
eggnite 3:30

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We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.

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WI MTP
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2006 10:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WI MTP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Southern Man - Thanks for keeping the faith.

I have not really trained much since the 9/24 marathon - 2 weeks after was a 50 miler that did me in for awhile. I have been running, but not training - About 1/2 normal miles and no speed work to speek of. This week I actually got in one speed session

M-Off
T 11 5 x.75 I-Paced intervals with .5 mile jog
W 10
Th 15
Fr 10
SA 10 W 1@ MP
SU 16

Total 72 - This is the most I have fit in last 3 weeks

Goal remains the same - To have fun. But I think I can still Manage to Lance Armstrong it

Jan 1st I will officially start training again

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Southern Man
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2006 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Southern Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by WI MTP:
Hey Southern Man - Thanks for keeping the faith.

I have not really trained much since the 9/24 marathon - 2 weeks after was a 50 miler that did me in for awhile. I have been running, but not training - About 1/2 normal miles and no speed work to speek of. This week I actually got in one speed session


I also have not really returned to training with any regularity. I've had some up weeks, some down weeks, and a couple of major interruptions...a bad cold, and then a bathroom remodeling project that has kept me from running all this week (although I did get in a very modest long run yesterday).

Southern Man

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We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.

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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2006 05:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for KudzuRunner   Click Here to Email KudzuRunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Race report: St. Jude Marathon, 12/2/06, Memphis TN. Rather than post this in RRR, I'll keep it reasonable short and sneak it in here. No mile-by-mile splits. Just the gist:

BQ by one (1) second, after a 90 second sprint-to-the-death on the outfield warning track at Memphis Redbirds Stadium. 3:30:59.

No, I didn't break 3:25, or even 3:30. I didn't run anything like the marathon I was trained to run--certainly nothing equivalent to the 1:31 half marathon I notched five weeks ago. But once I'd made the several mistakes (described below), one in the final few taper days and one on race morning, the race I actually ran was one I can live with. I did NOT hit the wall. Nor did I consume anything during the run except PowerAid and water. In the three months since Tupelo, I lowered my marathon time by 8 minutes and 40 seconds.

My splits, for the record, were 1:44:40 / 1:46:19. Or, put another way, miles 1-10 @ 8:04, miles 11-20 @ 7:58, last 10K @ 8:09.

The day dawned clear and cold. At the 8 AM gun it was, I'm guessing, right around freezing, mostly sunny, and calm. I arrived at the starting line about 7:45, hoping to get in a short warmup a la Pfitz: 5 min jog, light stretching, 5 minute jog. Instead, all I got was a 2:30 jog and no stretching. I generally don't stretch much at all before training runs, so the lack of stretching wasn't a problem. But, in retrospect, the lack of a warmup was a problem, and a crucial one. That was my second mistake. My first mistake was, I later decided, my decision on the Wednesday before the Saturday race to finish a 4 mile jog with four short and easy uphill strides. I didn't push them and felt no post run soreness. Nor did I feel any post run soreness after running another four light (MP) strides after a 3 mile jog on Friday. But I'm now convinced that these two last minute additions to what would ordinarily have been stride-free jogs ended up tweaking my hamstrings just the slightest bit. Combined with no warmup and 32 degree temps that had me shivering as I approached the starting line.... Warning signs all around.

Gun went off and we were off. My plan was to average 8:00 pace for the first half--and for 8:00 pace to feel easy, as though I were clearly holding myself back.

I pretty much held to plan, as the splits above suggest, but almost from the get-go the backs of my thighs--my hams, duh--just didn't feel quite right. Hard to describe. Nothing obviously wrong, just nothing quite snapping, the way peaking should have had me feeling. I tried to find a rhythm as we made our way through the rises and dips of downtown Memphis. First three miles in 8:03, 8:02, and 7:59. In retrospect I should have gone 10-15 seconds a mile slower. Given my lack of warmup, I surely should have done this. This is one mistake I won't make next time. Either get in the warmup or go out a bit slower than planne MP. Or both.

I wore my HR monitor and tried to keep HR at 165 (83%) or below, with some success. But again, even as my stride felt slightly more effortful at what should have been a sub-maximal pace, my HR began to creep. Nothing worrisome, just not quite.....as expected.

(For the record, I maintained an average HR of 173 (87%) for the entire distance. My threshold is 177-178, so I was about 2% below that.)

I made no obvious pacing errors. Yes, on several early net-decline miles in the first 10, I ran 7:45 - 7:48, but that was, after all, a pace that I thought I might even average for the entire race with a planned second-half pickup. Nothing above threshold.

As expected, miles 15 through 18, with a net incline, were tough, but I still clocked 8:11 (15--the single toughest mile in the race), 8:06, 8:00, and 8:04.

My legs felt no worse at 20 than at 15. My pace slowed slightly--from 8:04 in mile 21 through 8:19 in mile 25. My HR for most of the miles from 15 through 25 was at my threshold (177-178), although I was careful not to push beyond that. I never hit the wall.

The whole race was a grind, frankly. Just a question of holding pace, mile by mile. For one extended moment, on the gradual downhill of mile 19, my low-level hamstring issue suddenly let up and I actually thought Aha! THAT'S the feeling I've been missing. My stride felt right, suddenly; I felt a little power. But for most of the race--and in marked contrast to my half marathon--I felt no sense of power. Certainly not power-in-reserve.

I knew early on that I wasn't going to achieve any significant time goal, but until the very end I assumed that I'd break 3:30--or, at worse, miss it by a few seconds but still come in under the 3:30:59 ceiling that was my BQ time. My plan early on was to push the last 10K. Then the last 3 miles. Then the last two miles. Then the final mile. That plan kept on getting revised. I'm sure you've all been there.

I picked it up a little in the final mile, a long uphill rise through downtown Memphis, as my HR ascended into 10K territory.

I pushed down the hill towards Redbird Stadium, rounded to the right, and headed towards the 26 mile point, just as you came onto the warning track.

At that moment, I looked at my watch and saw 3:29:xx and realized that unless I sprinted the final 385 yards all out, I was going to miss my BQ.

Here, for once, my training paid off. Remember those super fast finish long runs?

I took off like a woodchuck being pursued by jaguar. Not a pretty sight, but he will scamper pretty hard if you panic him. I blew past five or six people like they were standing still, zagging and zigging on the sand with with all thrusters slamming. I glanced up at the clock as I lunged over the mat--I almost pulled a Ramaala--and saw 3:32:00, which, with one minute subtracted for the staggered start, meant that I'd probably made it. My own watch, grabbed and squeezed as I fell over the line, read 3:31:00. Somebody grabbed me and asked if I needed a hand.

It was a 97 second sprint at 6:56 pace, my watch claimed. .21 miles. Felt a heck of a lot faster than that.

Later, when they posted the results, I saw the :59 and was giddy.

Anyway, I got my BQ. No Boston for me this spring--two marathons in three months, along with a half marathon PR, ends a good long season and I'd like to return to the shorter stuff. It's been fun. I still haven't cracked the marathon code--haven't run the sub-3:20 I'm capable of running on the right day--but I'm working on it. And it's been fun. Next time: NO uphill strides four days out. And I'll be sure to get in a 10-minute warmup. Two minutes and 30 second ain't enough.

Have a great winter, all.

[This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Dec-03-2006).]

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mainers
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2006 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mainers   Click Here to Email mainers     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
amazing stuff Kudzu! despite those little but significant things you pulled it off! thanks for sharing those 'mistakes' too. the forecast for next weekend is cold so i want to make sure i'm thoroughly warmed up (on as little running as possible) before the off

i'm just desperate to race now! i even dreamt about my marathon last night. unfortunately it was a nightmare and i came in at over a 7 minute pace behind a friend who i would normally beat easily!

my week was

M- off
T- 3 miles plus 6*800 at 5k pace. Last track session. good workout
W- 5.5 ez
Th- 6 including 3 at MP
F- off
S- 12
Su- 6 at about 6.10 pace (MP+10)

Wednesday and Thursday I felt a bit lethargic but probably because of hard Tuesday workout. Legs were back yesterday and today. One more week to go!!

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Southern Man
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2006 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Southern Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great job, Kudzu. Made it right on the button.

Southern Man

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We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.

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yogini runner
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2006 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yogini runner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kudzu,
Congratulations on a BQ and a very impressive season.
Bask, rest and enjoy!


(Late to post, but with little training, I posted a 10k pr on T-day with 52:56. Good for 3rd in my AG.)

VA feels like home and it is nice to be back in an area with 5 yr AG, instead of the vast 'open' expanse.

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Johnny J
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2006 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny J     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kudzu-- great race and fun report to read! It sounds like you did very well pacing/strategy wise on a day when you just weren't "feeling it". It's funny, I think it is the cold, but lately my hamstrings feel tight just on regular runs-- I think it's cold weather and you just never get warmed up well. But you plugged along and pulled off a great BQ.

That last minute dash is awesome! Super job-- the beauty of qualifying in Dec. is you're good to go now for '08 as well.

Now enjoy your holidays and pack on a few pounds like the rest of us-- all you diehards training deep into the winter are making me feel lazy-- the truth hurts.

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thereshegoes
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2006 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for thereshegoes     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...like a woodchuck being chased by a jaguar...

HAH! That is hilarious.

Way to go Kudzu!! Congratulations. What a huge accomplishment long in the making. I am so impressed with that last burst to gut out the BQ!!!!

On a deeper level, I always enjoy your self-analysis. When reading your report for this marathon and also the last something occurred to me--perhaps you expect marathoning to feel a way it just doesn't or can't feel? Sometimes it sounds like your shooting for the feeling you had in your first marathon like a junky chasing the dragon. I'm curious what you think about that.

Back to the surface--WooHoo!!! You should still be beeming!!!

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WI MTP
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2006 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WI MTP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice job - Some days you have it some days you don't, but can force something out of your body anyway. After 3+ hours, it is amazing that you made it by 1 second.

Enjoy your success.

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runninlaw
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2006 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for runninlaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great job Kudzu - I knew you had it in you this season!!! I was also going to comment on the woodchuck thing but thereshegoes beat me to it lol -- very fun race report to read. I too enjoy your self analysis, but I also think you are way to critical of yourself - celebrate that dash to the finish for the big fat BQ - GREAT JOB!!

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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2006 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for KudzuRunner   Click Here to Email KudzuRunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
About the woodchuck: he was actually a little faster than I thought he was. I spoke with a colleague of mine this morning who also ran St. Jude (4:30 or so) and she reminded me that the 26 mile point was a bit earlier than I'd thought--on the street outside Redbirds Stadium. When I checked my watch as I came out on the stadium warming track, I now realize, what I saw was 3:30:15. It was at that point that I turned the jaguar loose on the hamstrung woodchuck--and watched that little critter scamper 250 yards or so at sub-6:00 pace.

About being too hard on myself: nah. Not everybody can do what we do, and a three-and-a-half hour marathon is an accomplishment. But the truth is, the reason I run--and particularly race--is because I'm chasing after two things: 1) a sense of accomplishment in having figured out how to do thing as optimally as my brains, heart, and (modest) physical gifts will allow me to do it; and 2) the feeling of power that comes from actually getting out there on the race course and flying along at race pace for an extended period of time, when so much of my training consists of much slower and less thrill-inducing running. The race, whatever the distance, is the payoff. It's the adrenaline rush. My recent half-marathon PR was that sort of adrenaline rush, for an hour and a half. I have a hard time stringing together five sub-7:00 miles in training, so it's glorious to be able to get out there and throw down 13 of 'em.

A marathon on a good day--and I've had several of those--isn't exactly an adrenaline rush, but it's still somewhat of a magic carpet ride. Or it can be, until those late miles. It doesn't have to be a 26 mile grind. That's why I'll certainly face the challenge another time or two, until I satisfy both items 1 and 2 above.

I'll probably enter the NYC lottery this summer, because, as a former longtime NYCer, that's a race I don't want to go to my grave never having run. And I'll run Boston in 2008, when I've just turned 50.

Just remember: when the finish line is in sight and your BQ hangs in the balance, become the crazed woodchuck.

[This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Dec-04-2006).]

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Boyerdavea
Member
posted Dec-04-2006 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boyerdavea     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
KudzuRunner

Congrats, I just hope that this weekend I can pull off a BQ. I am looking for a 3:15.

I am quite impressed with your drive and determination to complete this run at a BQ time. You should be feeling pretty good about your accomplishment.

------------------
David

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jakey
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2006 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jakey   Click Here to Email jakey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Holy carp Kudzu! It doesn't get closer than that. Congrats.

If I have learned one thing from all of you guys running for a BQ, it's that I need to give myself a bit of a cushion. I need a 3:15, but next year I'm shooting for a 3:10 for sure!

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jpgarland
Cool Runner
posted Dec-05-2006 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jpgarland   Click Here to Email jpgarland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kudzu, Nice report. You've earned an off-season. Strange that something as simple as doing some hill-strides can just put you a little out of whack, but it's so hard to resist a few last quick things during taper.

Hope you make it to NY.

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S Agsten
Cool Runner
posted Dec-05-2006 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for S Agsten     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great race report Kudzu! Nothing like an all out sprint at the end of the marathon!

My CIM report is in RRR but the short of it was I ran a 3:05:58 to eek in under 3:06 (yes, I too was sprinting at the end!) Fun race and a fast course!

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kestrou
Cool Runner
posted Dec-07-2006 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kestrou   Click Here to Email kestrou     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kudzu - I wish they had a "thumbs up" smiley around here somewhere!

kestrou

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AndyHass
Cool Runner
posted Dec-08-2006 10:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kudzu,
Close only counts in horse shoes, hand grenades, and thermonuclear warfare. You were under the qualifier and that's all that counts. Kudos!!

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