posted Sep-28-2006 02:38 PM
kestrou, sorry your head is hanging low this week. Don't beat yourself up too much though. You are just living proof that we can train our butts off for months, mentally prepare, psyche ourselves up for the event, give it all we have and then something little comes up to make it all fall just slightly out of reach. That, my friend, is why the marathon is so difficult. It is nearly impossible to nail down every little aspect unless everything goes right. So let yourself take a slow week (you are also pretty beaten up still I am sure) and then pick it up next week. And, by the way, your time is not bad. It wasn't your goal time, and you finished it in less than stellar physcial conditions, but you finished it and your time was pretty darn good. Once you get your mental edge back, you will be ready to kick Chicago's a$$. Good luck.
dvc - It is worth trying gels in practice. Of the many I have tried, I prefer Crank E-gel because it has electrolytes. There are a ton of them out there though. I think you will be able to tell the difference after you take one as they give you a little boost of energy. Just make sure you eat them with water (not gatorade) or they will turn your stomach to sludge!
posted Sep-28-2006 02:58 PM
runninlaw--Thanks for the welcome and good luck to you too! You're just 2 weeks out too, right? PS--as for drinking on the run, I had the same problem but in my last 1/2 I squeezed the paper cup and made a slit and just sipped as I ran and had no problems. I considered the straw thing but nixed it after having success with the cups at the last race. Maybe there is a local race where you can practice before the big day?
Sportigirl--I'd love to compare notes and ideas for race strategy. I hate hearing all these horror stories and it definitely gets me thinking but I'm still confident and ready to go for it and I hope you are too!
kestrou--speaking of horror stories! I'm so sorry you had such a bad experience. Go get 'em in Chicago and maybe have a drink or two along the way? Ok, not a good joke. Seriously, you obviously have the ability so put into practice what you learned and get that BQ!
Kudzu--I hope my first marathon experience is as great as yours! One can only hope!! As for this year, what do you think was the biggest contributing factor(s) to not meeting your expectations?
92heelgrad--did you ever have cramps before the race? Did you do anything different this time to avoid the problem? In any event good luck at Chicago and enjoy taper time!
posted Sep-28-2006 04:45 PM
I had a fun week. I cut back to taper for a 30k cross country race on Saturday. It was a great time. The Lidingoloppet is a race on an island in the Stockholm archipelago. It is special race for Swedes and quite popular. The course was very very hilly. It is part of the Svenska Klassiker (Swedish Classics). There are 4 events over the year (Vasalopet 90k Cross country skiing, Vatternrundan 300k biking, Vansbrosimningen 3k swimming, and Lidingoloppet 30k running)
I finished in 2:43:47, 1606/7395 Men. What makes the course especially challenging is that the really tough hills come in the last 12k. I was in the 4th starting group which was a little farther back than I would have liked. I probably should have been in 3 or maybe 2. Since this is a cross country race, there was only room for a few people across, so I was dodging and weaving for most of the race. I was able to run well in the middle, but then caught the slower 3rd groupers for the last 10k. At least it made me feel like I was moving fast.
Pacing went well as I managed pretty even splits. I started to feel really wasted right around 28k (the last up hill) but by then all that is left is a easy downhill. I suprised myself with how long I was able to keep my heart rate up high without crashing. (averaged 89%).
Pretty sore on Sunday, better on Monday and no lingering effects on Tuesday. So that is a good sign.
My target for the marathon is 5:00/k and I managed 5:27/k on this course. I'm thinking that 5:00/k may be possible on a normal flat course, but not sure. I'm also seriously considering bagging the fall marathon because I had a good 30k race and I'm feeling burned out. Also, my target race is pretty far from home and presents some logistical problems. I'll see how the next few weeks go and take it from there.
So overall for the week I did:
M: Off T: 10.2k (5:16/k) Steady W: Weights. Then some intervals on a treadmill. 3k w/u, 5x1000m (4:00), 500m jogging between, 2.5 c/d. 12.5k overall. R: Off F: Off S: 30k (5:29) Su: Off
posted Sep-28-2006 04:50 PM
Thereshegoes- I had not had any problems with cramps during training before the race. I am doing two things differently to avoid the problem (hopefully) this year. 1: I am running longer long runs, although at a slightly slower pace. I have so far done a 20(twice), 21, 23, and a 24. 2: I increased my weekly mileage to 60-70 mpw with an 80 mile peak this week.
3: I am taking an easier taper this time. I looked at my log from last year, and I ran a 13 mile run @7:30 pace just 14 days before the race. Some people can do long tempo and medium long MP runs 10 days before the race, but I am not one of them apparently.
posted Sep-28-2006 05:45 PM
thereshegoes ... as for training and pacing strategies for Columbus I figure I've done what I could and now I have to taper properly (and get over whatever bug I came down with yesteday, lol) ... I know I am capable of running around 7:50 comfortably for 18-20 mile and feel like I have something left in the tank ... I know that the gels don't make me sick and that I can drink on the run and not have to carry any liquid or gels with me if I don't want to bother with that ... I also know that I can go as slow as 8:32 pace and still qualify ...
My plan is to maneuvre around slower pacers the first couple miles (like happened on Sunday) and settle in somewhere between 7:50-8:00 pace after that ... pay attention to my breathing and adjust pace to what I know I feel comfortable with ... stay there for the bulk of the race ... drink every 3 or so miles and take a gel every 35-40 minutes ... I need to recheck the elevation charts for Columbus to determine where my 'pick up the pace' point will be if I'm feeling strong ... but I definitely won't turn up the heat until nearly 20 miles, at least (if there's any heat to turn up) ... 10-15 seconds pick-up at most ... then after 23 miles I may pick up again if I feel strong and no sign of 'the wall' has reared it's ugly head .... BUT ... I seriously doubt I'll have the pick-up or kick in after 23; I'll most likely be hurting and trying to hold on to what I have and not lose too much off my average pace up to that point ...
If the weather and my health cooperate and I can do the first 20 like I did last Sunday I could do the last 10K in 1:08 and that'd be nearly 11:00 m/m and still hit the BQ cutoff for my AG @ 3:45 ... so I am fairly optimistic about going ahead and challenging my abilities and seeing what happens ...
I just hope it doesn't end up 40 F and raining with a strong headwind ... which is possible ... then I'll just be happy to finish no matter what my pace! I am planning to train for a spring marathon no matter what happens ... so I'm not going to be devasted if things don't turn out well this time ... ya know?
posted Sep-29-2006 09:08 AM
Sportigirl--I have to run a 3:40 to qualify. So I similarly take the viewpoint that I know I can make it to 20 at 7:50 pace and then from there even worst case scenario I have a little over an hour to trot in a 10 k to BQ. I realize that might not be possible if I'm in real bad shape, but I am confident enough in my training that I can at least get to 20 at 7:50 pace.
As for picking up the pace I will not let myself until 24 at the earliest. This is my safe point. My goal is to get there feeling as strong as possible. I know it seems silly but at this point I will have run over 90% of the race and I KNOW I can go 2.2 more miles. I am most afraid of miles 18-24 where it seems like most people get that invincible feeling only to crash and burn. I want to be really careful in these miles not to blow it. I rather just hold pace and feel a little bored for a few miles and then just go for it and run the heck out of those last 2 miles than risk the march of death even for a mile or two. Plus, I've done at least a 2 mile faster than m/p push every long run for the last 2.5 months so this plan coordinates well with my training.
As for weather, I hate heat and humidity the most, followed by wind. Cold and rain is ok. I'd prefer a 57 degree sunny day with no wind at all, but now that I've said that we'll have 85 degrees, humidity, and tornadoes!
posted Sep-29-2006 10:38 AM
Hey! I'll join this thread!
I'm up for a fall full, even though I haven't actually signed up for one, but I'm hoping to hit an event happening in my home town a thousand miles away from here, in Sydney, Cape Breton called the Fiddler's Run. Goal time....it'd be nice to do 3:30 for a BQ, but me thinks I'm going to be in the 3:35-3:40 range. Let's call it 3:30 though and see what happens.
Date for this race is October 29, 4 weeks from this weekend. I only started really training in late August and these are my weekend runs thus far...16,18,20,15,21. I'm trying to see if I can short-cycle my training this time instead of doing yet another long drawn-out 18-20 week training program.
You've asked what the biggest factor was in my not reaching my goal, but instead hitting the wall at 21.
In the academy--where I earn my bread--we talk about something being "overdetermined" if there are many, perhaps too many, explanations. You may have noted that marathoners are well-versed in overdetermined catastrophes!
In my case, I think there was one major cause and three lesser causes. The major cause was an almost total lack of hillwork in my summer buildup. I learned years ago that I could run a fast marathon on about 60 miles a week, as long as I consistently put in those hill repeats. I have shortish, muscular legs and they respond extremely well to hills. This time, years later, with only 50 mpw, I left the hills out. I realized this lack only a couple of weeks ago when I went to a nearby mountain--about 800 vertical feet in 4/10ths of a mile--and ran it a couple of times at a moderate pace. My legs were toast the next day, and most of the rest of the week. Did it one week later. Felt better. Did it this past Wednesday--three times, not two--and finished the run with explosive power. My quads weren't the slightest bit sore the next day. THAT is the training I need. No amount of steady mileage on the flats over the summer can replace that training effect.
So I've added hills.
The three minor causes: 1) only two 20 milers as my longest long runs. I'll put in more of those before my early December marathon, and I'll run one 22-miler; 2) weird taper. I was on vacation with four weeks to go, so in Week three I ran 57 miles--my highest of the buildup--with 24 miles of that at 8:00 pace, plus or minus 15 secs a mile. I cut way back during the next two weeks and felt fine, but still: probably not the best way to go; 3) inadequate nutrition. I thought I'd done a pretty good job of carb loading, but I can do better. The night before the 'thon was lasagne in a restaurant, which turned out to be a whole lot of cheese and sausage and not as much pasta as I'd have like. I took no gels during the race. I think I'll try a couple next time.
60 mpw would obviously be better than 50 mpw, but I'm confident that I can run a pretty fast marathon on 50, or at least a non-wall-y one--as long as I've gone to the mountain on a regular basis.
posted Sep-29-2006 11:52 AM
My marathon training is as follows: 18-19 miles, rest, 14 miles, rest, 18-19 miles again, rest, 25(?) miles, rest, 14 miles or rest (I prefer my long run to be on Sunday though will gladly do it on Saturday depending) And my course is as follows:
Considering how I start at 4:30 in the morning and consume nothing but a glass of water the morning (I use calories from the day before as energy), as well as the hilliness of the route my chances for making the Boston marathon look fairly good, especially if Lowell is as flat as advertised to be. Note how I omitt Speedplay from my training (sometimes I'll do intervals on my shorter 14 mile runs) as winning a marathon hardly has anything to do with speed (note the lack of gold medal sprinters who win marathons, anyone can run a 5:00 minute mile, but what seperates the elites from everyone else is the elites can take that pace through a whole marathon, if you can run at least a 6:00 minute mile without having to sprint then speedplay simply isnt necessary, just build stamina with longruns and gradually increase your pace)
of course everyone has there own style of working out so feel free to stick to your plans.
posted Sep-29-2006 09:01 PM
Its been a while since I've posted. I thought I'd drop in with a quick update.
I'm a first time marathoner (hopefully). My running has been very sporadic. I have managed (2) 20 mile runs and (1) 18 miler in the past 4 weeks. The problem has been with my other mid week runs.
I've had a very sore left knee cap (improper tracking), a sore right hip, and now a sore left foot. These nagging pains have kep my weekly mileage very low. I'm planning one more 20 (hopefully 22) before the taper (a 50 mile week).
I can understand why experienced runners recommend distance running for at least a year before attempting a marathon. This 6-8 month build up is really getting to me. I still plan to run the race, hopefully none of the 3 "injuries" become any worse.
With my excuses listed above ....... SOUTHERMAN CAN YOU CHANGE MY GOAL TIME TO 4:00 HOURS.
I'd also like to send a quick thanks to Southerman for doing such a wonderful job keeping up a very interesting thread!
quote:Originally posted by jaymthegenius: Considering how I start at 4:30 in the morning and consume nothing but a glass of water the morning (I use calories from the day before as energy), as well as the hilliness of the route my chances for making the Boston marathon look fairly good, especially if Lowell is as flat as advertised to be.
Jay,
Are you planning on doing Bay State? If so, what time are you shooting for? I am using Bay State as a qualifier as well, and aiming for a 3:10. Trying to get a sense of people I can pace with.
Peak mileage with only 14 days before the race? Wow, that's brave. Why no gels? Of all your reasons for crashing, this seems like the most obvious. If I don't eat anything on a long training run and I run out of glycogen, I go down like Mike Tyson in a rematch. But during the race??? You're running the race faster than you normally train over long distances, so you are burning through your glycogen faster and earlier than you normally do. I always pack 5 gels and a banana just to be safe. For some reason bananas seem to pull me out of a cramp, maybe it's the potassium.
It seems to me if you just keep up your training and cut out these late bad choices, you'll cruise to a 3:30. FWIW, I had the exact same crash you had when I ran Chicago last year. I ate plenty, was not dehydrated, but I think it came down to no long runs over 20, not enough aerobic conditioning, and foolishly running a 13 mile MP run 14 days before the race.
posted Sep-28-2006 02:38 PM
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