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We Are Ruining The Sport of Running


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Author Topic:   We Are Ruining The Sport of Running
denton
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posted Sep-25-2006 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for denton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
..MaryT......if u don't get it you never will...... and that is truly the dumbing down of the sport......

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maryt
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posted Sep-26-2006 06:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for maryt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wanaka
I don't understand your comments. Of course the actions of others can influence others, so can the words. If the article that started this thread actually did discourage people from joining the "growing army of giddy marathon rookies" would that be a good thing? I think not. I know runners personally who competed at a whole lot higher level than you ever dreamed about (think Olympians and Boston marathon winners, not just qualifiers) who welcome the large number of participants and charity runners into the sport. Would you keep runners out who just want to finish, tell them to stay on the couch if they can't meet some arbitrary expectations for training you or Andy or some of the other nay-sayers have, even if the race directors are perfectly happy to have them in their events?

Sportigirl
Face it. Most marathons are fun runs today. That's the reality. It's time for people to get over it. Do you think that anywhere near even 10% of the 20,000 or so that run Boston as qualified runners have any chance of winning? Would you have all races be restricted to just those who had a shot to win? Even the Olympics don't do that. Please, don't give me that we're competing against ourselves stuff. Yes, that's certainly a part of it, but so are the people who just want to finish. If competing against themselves were what "serious" runners were all about they could just run time trials and wouldn't need to be in events with others at all. What would be the point? Sure there are times when it's all about competition; I've competed myself and won many an age group and once even the open division, but if it isn't about cpmpetition for every runner or on any particular day, for some it's just about being out there, what's the harm? Would you do away with Rock and Roll and the Country Music marathons and Disney, those that cater to slower runners who just want to finish?

Denton,

I'm afraid it's you who just doesn't get it. Times change, Live with it. Certainly there's a place tfor competition, and racing to compete and win is a whole different thing than entering a run just for fun and to finish. Giving it your all in a relay, and knowing if you don't it will mean the difference between whether your team wins or not, or seeing that finishing line and the tape being brought out for you to break, and knowing that no one is going to catch you - what a high! I've been there. I know what it's like. But having a large number of people getting off the couch and joining in, even if it's not about competition at all for them, that's a good thing, too. Dumnbing down the sport? Come on. It's just one foot in front of another. For some it's all about the competition, but for some it's just about trying to get fit and having some fun and doing it with a lot of other like-minded people. That's not the end of the world and I say again if that ruins the sport for you or degrades the sport for you, says a whole lot more about you than about them.

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rbbmoose
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posted Sep-26-2006 06:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rbbmoose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Waddle on, Maryt.

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bigapplepie
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posted Sep-26-2006 06:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bigapplepie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're not pissing blood you're not a marathon runner, right?

The Central Park Track Club response (Gabe Sherman's team).

quote:

Also, the penguins hurt the image of the sport. Distance running isn't something athletes do, it's something fat old guys do on the weekend.

[This message has been edited by bigapplepie (edited Sep-26-2006).]

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beatfreq
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posted Sep-26-2006 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for beatfreq   Click Here to Email beatfreq     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by maryt:
Face it. Most marathons are fun runs today. That's the reality. It's time for people to get over it. Do you think that anywhere near even 10% of the 20,000 or so that run Boston as qualified runners have any chance of winning? Would you have all races be restricted to just those who had a shot to win?

People can still race even if they don't have a chance of winning first place overall. They beat who they can and get beaten by those who are faster. That's why people are sprinting to the finish long after the winner has crossed the line. There's nothing wrong with encouraging people to race at races.

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SportiGrl
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posted Sep-26-2006 07:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SportiGrl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
maryt, you said *** Do you think that anywhere near even 10% of the 20,000 or so that run Boston as qualified runners have any chance of winning? Would you have all races be restricted to just those who had a shot to win?***


This is what I think is elitist and not what I am talking about ... I am not saying that those who want to do their best, even if that's a 4:30:29 marathon time, should stick to fun runs ... I was just suggesting that if the only reason a person is doing a Marathon Race is for a recreational fun run perhaps they should run it as a LR with friends and have a party afterward ... or perhaps race organizers should have a separate category on their registrations and have those not interested in PRs or finishing times run after cheering on those who are there to do their best (and hopefully put in the training to do that) ... actually, they wouldn't really need to be there to cheer on the racers (regardless of pace, I consider a person training for and attempting to do their best a racer) ...


I think those that twist things people like Andy or me or others say to mean only elites should be allowed to run in all marathons are the ones being obnoxious and insulting to the mid-pack marathon hopefuls ... making it sound like the only worthy effort is for those genetically gifted runners who opt to put in endless years and hours of training to fine tune their abilities should be allowed to run ...


I have see many people in my job that are social exercisers ... they get more visiting and social bonding out of their time at the gym than physical exercise ... and if that's what they intend I am fine with it, so long as it doesn't negatively effect those that actually came for exercise ... the thing is that eventually those that want to really exercise often stop coming because the socialites who show up impede the workout by going too slowly, not improving so the class as a whole can function, and not paying attention and interupting to find out what's going on ... there have been times I have seen a class that looks more like a table at the local coffee shop ... I'd quit if my classes ever reached that point ...


There are places to party and socialize ... in the stands of a sporting event and before or afterward are good ones, imho ...


you don't have to be a top competitor to strive for your personal best ... the mindset that you have to be THE BEST IN THE WORLD to be worthy of trying your best is very sad to me ...

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Sightseer66
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posted Sep-26-2006 07:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sightseer66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maryt, you rock!

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DanMoriarity
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posted Sep-26-2006 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DanMoriarity   Click Here to Email DanMoriarity     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SportiGrl:
I think those that twist things people like Andy or me or others say to mean only elites should be allowed to run in all marathons are the ones being obnoxious

Exactly.

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runninlaw
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posted Sep-26-2006 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for runninlaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Peronally, I am serious about my running and at races try my best or pace with someone else who is trying their best. BUT, I also have a very good time and I like seeing others enjoy themselves as well. I look forward to hearing bands or spectators blaring music as we run by. I will gladly veer over to high 5 a six year old cheering me on. If you see me or cheer for me while running in a race, you will probably even catch a whole-hearted smile from me (gasp!).

Admittedly, I have never run Chicago, Boston or New York, so I cannot comment on those mammoth race experiences. The largest race I did was the Gate River Run (US Championship for the 15K). There were people of all skill levels (and interest levels) there. Did not bother me, hamper my running or cheapen the event at all for me. I don't think races have to be stuffy stodgy events to be "serious." And before you all go on the defensive attack, I am not saying that ALL of you are saying that, but I am getting the impression that some of you are taking this way too far.

IMO, sports (including running) shouldn't be closed off to only people with a certain mentality. A fun run is a fun run, not the olympic trials. And it is ok if running means different things to different people. I frankly wish there were more people in the local races I run. I'd rather run a race with 3000 average runners than only 80.

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cruxjuris
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posted Sep-26-2006 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cruxjuris     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by maryt:
Remember, running is recreation, not religion, not even sport or competition for many who enjoy getting out there and joining in on the fun. If that degrades your experience, says more about you than about them, I would think.

That precise fact degrades my experience and it does say something about me, them and us. But more importantly for the subject on hand, your comment proves that some major Marathons have become Amusement Parks for inexperienced runners. This "highjack" is what Sherman article is all about. You seem to enjoy it. I don't. I get my endorphin somewhere else.

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laker
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posted Sep-26-2006 01:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for laker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I will side with Mary. When I race I see nothing except the race course and my competitors. I am as hard core as anyone, and take it very seriously. But why would I care if those behind me are less serious or running with a different focus. Who cares? I certainly don't feel degraded by four hour marathoners. It's all good. Why are some of you guys so threatened by the penguins? They have NO relevance to YOUR race.

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runninlaw
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posted Sep-26-2006 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for runninlaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ha Ha. I just got this e-mail and thought I would share it. I bet this gets lots of undies in a bundle:

"Greetings!

Make a Holiday Dream come true for a child.

Join Kyle and Pattie Petty, John "the Penguin" Bingham, Coach Jenny Hadfield and the staffs of the Victory Junction Gang Camp and John Bingham Racing as WE make this a holiday celebration to remember. The Victory Junction Run Half Marathon on Sunday, December 3, 2006 will raise funds to support the mission of the Victory Junction Gang Camp.

The Camp enriches the lives of children with chronic medical conditions or serious illnesses by providing life- changing camping experiences that are exciting, fun, and empowering, in a safe and medically sound environment.

Surrounded by beautiful hardwood forests, Victory Junction Gang Camp is located in the Piedmont Triad of North Carolina. The Camp was built on 72 acres that were generously donated by Richard and Lynda Petty. Victory Junction Gang Camp has a racing theme with the sights, sounds, look and feel of a race track! The Camp is comprised of 33 buildings, including the Goody's Body Shop medical center, the Hendrick Motorsports Fuel Stop dining hall, the Silver Theater, the Kyle Petty Charity Ride Across America water park, Adam's Race Shop, the Michael Waltrip Operation Marathon Sportscenter, Jessie's Horse Power Garage and much more!

Run with Kyle. Hang out with "the Penguin". Run or walk with friends. No matter what you do you'll be helping those who need your help.

Won't you please make this your Holiday tradition?

Thank you
John "the Penguin" Bingham
John Bingham Racing"

God forbid people put on races for reasons other than pure competition . . . .

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rbbmoose
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posted Sep-26-2006 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rbbmoose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good points all! -

You've convinced me. We should all get together and stamp out all elitist races. Those darned olympics are particularly problematic. Lets give everyone a medal (Gold of course) and a big hug at the finish line, so nobody feels left out - Lets give two medals to those who juggle or can do card tricks while meandering along. And lets keep the finish line open for 12 hours instead of 8 so that those who want to can stop for a sandwich or a milkshake. Lets get rid of the time clocks all together - we're just in it for a good time and they make the slower partcipants (noticed I didn't say runners because I don't want to offend those who walk, waddle etc.) feel inadequate.. And lets make sure that we serve cheeseburgers and mochaa lattes at a rest stop every quarter mile so nobody gets famished on the way.

Waddle on
Ray

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runninlaw
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posted Sep-26-2006 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for runninlaw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I guess if we can't come to an agreement on one extreme (only "serious - not to be confused with elite" runners welcome) or the other (just read the last post), we'll have to settle with the way it is. We have it so tough don't we? Who would have thought Olympic trials (and olympic races for that matter) could co-exist with fun runs and marathons of various flavors? Who would have thought that there were lots of different types and abilities of runner?

Oh yeah, everyone outside this stupid debate.....

[This message has been edited by runninlaw (edited Sep-26-2006).]

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Ianmick
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posted Sep-26-2006 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ianmick   Click Here to Email Ianmick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by maryt:
Would you do away with Rock and Roll and the Country Music marathons and Disney, those that cater to slower runners who just want to finish?

Denton,

I'm afraid it's you who just doesn't get it. Times change, Live with it. ]


It's ironic that if I had to nominate one poster as the most condescending and arrogant, it would be you MaryT. I don't see anyone advocating for the abolishment of Disney or the RnR marathons. The problem is that EVERY major marathon has gone in this direction, Boston and NY included.

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martinjames
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posted Sep-26-2006 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for martinjames     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For what it's worth, most of the debate seems like semantics. I can easily reconcile the comments from Maryt, Sportigirl, and Andy, and don't see anything elitist about any of them. In fact, I'd say that I respect the comments of each -- on this topic and others.

cruxjuris, on the other hand, is just a flat-out buffoon. The David Duke in the Republican crowd.

From here, those that say "newbies ruined the marathon" sound like teenage girls heartbroken that the masses found "their" cool underground band. Waaahhh. If you're really that hard-core, go run 50-milers where you won't be bothered with the Team-in-Training effect.

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martinjames
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posted Sep-26-2006 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for martinjames     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry if this was posted already, but here's a nice response to the geeky gossip writer Gabriel Sherman and the article that made him famous (bravo Mr. Sherman).

Subject: Response to Gabriel Sherman, re "slowpokes"
From: bjwdad
Date: Sep 26 2006 12:46AM

Dear Mr. Sherman,

I learned of this article when one of your many misguided (at best) quotes was featured at LetsRun.com. The website termed your article "controversial" – they were being diplomatic, to say the least. Your article is filled with so much silliness and sophistry that it almost defies logic. Perhaps it was satire?....

Since I think you actually were somewhat serious in your opinions, I will elaborate on your various and sundry silly-isms:

<Today, the great majority of marathon runners set out simply to finish.>
The problem? Finishing a marathon IS an accomplishment, whatever you may think. Or perhaps
you feel that YOU accomplished nothing in your "six marathons under my New Balance Trainers?"

<That sets the bar so low that everyone comes out a winner.>
In case you haven't noticed, during your "six marathons under my New Balance Trainers," there
ARE actual winner declared for each marathon. Really!! Many of the "slowpokes" actual know who
they are, too, and greatly admire them.

<In 1970, when 127 hearty souls lined up for the inaugural New York City Marathon, the marathon was the province of a few masochists dumb enough to try to run as far as most people commute by car.>
So much smaller is better? There are many marathons smaller than NYC, Chicago, Los Angeles,
etc., so be of good cheer! There's a marathon out there for you, perhaps before you take up Bridge.

<The success of books like Jim Fixx's The Complete Book of Running inspired mass "Just Do It" participation.>
Oh no – lots of people running?!? Getting off their butts and getting in shape?!? God forbid!!

<As the popularity of marathons increased, the speed of the race slowed to its current snail's pace. In 1980, the average finish time for a male marathoner was 3:32, according to Running USA*. Today, it's more than 4:20>
The problem? May I remind you that the fastest time for the marathon continues to get lower, even
amongst all the circus-rock-concert-costumed- slowpoke-filled races.

Funny also, that the Olympic Marathon, without "all that which Gabriel Sherman abhors" rarely results in a new world record?

<Aside from an elevated sense of self-worth, what do marathoners get from their efforts?>
I can't say, personally. You see, at the age of 45, I'm training for my very first marathon, which,
God willing, will take place on the morning of Sunday, January 14, 2007. At the Zeppelin-cover-
band-filled (actually, there are more "Green Day" cover bands…) P.F. Chang's Rock & Roll
Marathon in Phoenix AZ.

I'm training for a sub-4:00 hour time, and hopefully a bit faster, maybe 3:45. Is that too slow for you? If so, I'm sincerely sorry. You don't have to come and watch this "marathon rookie" "crawling" towards the finish line. Ah yes, one question – weren't you, at one time, a "marathon rookie?"

Even though I have yet to complete my first marathon, I can list a myriad of improvements in my life because of running, AND because of marathon training. Let's see…I've gone from 5' 9" and 192 pounds two years ago to 148 pounds, and dropped my 5K time from 31:00 to just over 20:00. Again, if this is too slow for you, I apologize. The 20:00 5K sure doesn't FEEL like "crawling," even though it's over 3 minutes slower than I could run when I was 17.

My diet is far healthier than it has ever been, and two of my children are turning out to be decent, even GOOD junior high & high school runners, and are more aware of diet and fitness. I now coach the boys cross country team at my school, and THOSE guys are becoming more fit, and getting ready for basketball, soccer, baseball, etc. I'm able to influence them to eat better, and make fitness a lifelong goal.

As for all the other "slowpokes," many of them raise money for worthy charities, and plenty of other things. Surely you knew that?

<In the past decade, according to the Washington Post, at least four runners have died from drinking too much during a marathon.>
Now, Mr. Sherman, this one ranks as one of the more idiotic declarations in your article.
Read the sentence again, slowly and repeatedly if necessary. In "the past decade"…..at least
"FOUR" runners have died… Now, to be sure, this is at least FOUR too many, but it's a matter of education, not inherent danger. Now, think of how many non-marathoners, in the past decade, have died while… driving to work? At work? At home? Talking on the phone? Lifting a water bottle? Using the remote control to change channels? Getting dressed? Eating at McDonald's? Playing Bridge? Getting struck by lightning? Although I haven't researched the exact details, my guess is that FAR more people die during those activities than die during a marathon. Even out of a "430,000" person sample, I'm guessing that most of these would be higher than FOUR in a decade. Even if they aren't, what have you proven?

<It would certainly be healthier for inexperienced joggers to run fewer miles at a faster pace.>
Hate to burst your bubble, but you can get plenty injured by running shorter and faster. Get that Bridge deck ready!

<Marathons might not be good for your health, but they are certainly good for business.>
As for the latter…the problem?
And the former – I'm sure I will be very sore, and maybe somewhat injured, after my first marathon,
but the benefits of the training far outway it. I'll recover. Even elite runners who are built for regular
marathons deal with injuries.

<American record-holder Deena Kastor, who won the 2005 Chicago Marathon in 2:21, is completely anonymous.>
Another magnificently uninformed statement. How many distance runners go professional for the "fame and fortune?" Some of them achieve it, yes, but…good grief! Do you actually READ what you write?!?

<Big-city marathons these days feel more like circuses than races, with runners of variable skill levels—some outfitted in wacky costumes—crawling toward the finish line.>
FIND A SMALLER ONE. They exist.

<The Rock 'n' Roll Marathon, for one, has bands performing every mile to keep bored runners entertained. Maybe if people ran faster they wouldn't need Zeppelin cover bands to keep boredom at bay>
FIND ONE THAT DOESN'T HAVE BANDS. They exist.
<We feel good about creating the appearance of accomplishment, yet aren't willing to sacrifice for true gains.>
Apparently you know of NO OTHER MARATHONERS except YOU. I'm sorry
to hear that you haven't had to sacrifice for true gains. I have already, and I haven't run my first
marathon!

<The New York Times recently reported that the wannabes who get turned away from the big-city races—New York got 90,000 applications—have resorted to buying spots on the black market. As the ranks of marathon runners swell, I have to ask: What's the point?>
Slowpokes, newbies, AND free enterprise? Just what is this world coming to?!?

<But this growing army of giddy marathon rookies is so irksome that I'm about ready to retire my racing shoes and pick up bridge.>
But people have DIED while playing Bridge!

<Maybe it's time we raise our standards to see who can run one.>
<sigh> Read Runner's World. Read Running Times. Read the newspaper. Tens of thousands of
people can RUN marathons, and aren't even impeded by slowpokes like me. And they don't whine
about them, either.

Sincerely,

Bruce Wilkison, slowpoke and newbie marathon hopeful, and proud of it
Phoenix, Arizona

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AndyHass
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posted Sep-26-2006 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maryt, denton is right, no use arguing with you as you'll just never get it.

Actually, the people behind DO affect the faster people. The one and only reason I decided not to join the "large" numbers of fast people on the excellent Chicago course was that I decided that I just could not tolerate another year of the nightmare logistics of that race....created by the number of entries. Not that I mind most of them being there, but an effect is present.

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maryt
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posted Sep-26-2006 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for maryt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AndyHass:
Maryt, denton is right, no use arguing with you as you'll just never get it.

Actually, the people behind DO affect the faster people. The one and only reason I decided not to join the "large" numbers of fast people on the excellent Chicago course was that I decided that I just could not tolerate another year of the nightmare logistics of that race....created by the number of entries. Not that I mind most of them being there, but an effect is present.


Believe me, I get it. I started running back in the 60's when women still weren't even allowed to run marathons, and women running any distance were few and far between, and it was sort of cool to be in the sport when it was like an exclusive club. And I raced not for fitness, not for fun, but to be the very best I could be and to beat as many other women and men (OK maybe especially men) as I could, in races without bands, without cheering crowds, and wearing boy's shoes because that's all that was available.

Yes, the numbers do make a difference - more marathons close out early, courses are more crowded, and that's a downside, but that's not what the article is about, and I don't think that's what some posters are about primarily about either, or that's what would have been said from the get-go. The fact that there are now many more marathons and more and more runners should be a good thing. I think it's great; the more people who get off the couch the better!

But for some, maybe not you, but definitely for some, it's an issue not just for the crowds, but because it's not a special little club for the few any more. Now that anyone and his Aunt Tillly can finish a marathon those who run fast and are truly "serious" don't get as much praise or are considered as special, poor babies, as when there were fewer who ran marathons. Isn't that what some of the hostility towards sluggish newbies is about? How can you be considered special if anyone can finish a marathon? Where's the glory? Reminds me a whole lot of the attitude back when men were debating whether women should be allowed in races. Believe me, I get it.


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nike84
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posted Sep-26-2006 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nike84     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AndyHass:
Maryt, denton is right, no use arguing with you as you'll just never get it.

Actually, the people behind DO affect the faster people. The one and only reason I decided not to join the "large" numbers of fast people on the excellent Chicago course was that I decided that I just could not tolerate another year of the nightmare logistics of that race....created by the number of entries. Not that I mind most of them being there, but an effect is present.


Well said lads. The biggest problem with the marathon now is that it is one of the in things to do in fitness now. There are a lot of people doing the event that probably shouldn't. Hey there isn't anything wrong with getting out and running. Not everyone should do a marathon. I was asked just a little while
ago to talk/coach at a running clinic-It was interesting we got rid of the GPS and heart rate monitors and all the other whiz bang technical crap. Everybody enjoyed it - All of them were
4 hr or better marathoners- They actually enjoyed it and so did I . They also gained a respect for what it takes to be an elite distance runner as well. Most of them run because they
want to do it for fitness- the marathon for most is a one time challenge- that's it. After that a lot of runners will stick to the shorter distances. Those that want to try another marathon usually understand that to run a marathon to finish is a heck of a lot different than racing one.

MaryT - I see you're in with your usual expertise on all matters
related to running. You might want to realize that some of the posters here may just be ex Olympians or such. I doubt you have ever been an elite athlete so your lack of knowledge about the matter is just a lot of empty space. Just because
you know Olympians and Boston Marathon Champions doesn't make you an expert.

For the rest of you -have fun with your running- be it the marathon or whatever other distance. And most of those elite runners at the front of the race are pretty approachable and like to have as much fun as anyone else.

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denton
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posted Sep-26-2006 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for denton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
..MaryT I never said anything about people wanting to finsih dumbing down or degrading the sport...i was specifically referring to you ....you still don't get it and that in itself is kinda sad.....

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tuscaloosarunner
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posted Sep-26-2006 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tuscaloosarunner   Click Here to Email tuscaloosarunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not quite sure where I come down on this debate, but it strikes me that part of this debate stems from the fact that distance running--particularly the marathon--places the recreational runner w/ the semi-elite, and the semi-elite w/ the "pro".

In most other sports, the pros are segrated from the amateur. Anyone can play a game of pick-up, but very, very few can play in the NBA.

Perhaps that some of the dumbing down of the sport is the fact that we "share the same space". Would there be complaints if there were a series of marathons that were exclusively elite? Of course, I don't think that's logistically possible, but in a hypothetical world, it seems to me something to consider...

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Leilanipel
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posted Sep-26-2006 10:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leilanipel   Click Here to Email Leilanipel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nike84-

Would you please elaborate on your criteria for who should and who should not run a marathon?

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denton
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posted Sep-26-2006 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for denton     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
tuscaloosa..... I don't persoanlly see it as elite vs non elite...but some people like to put words in others people's mouths..... it's more an attitude of challenging oneself for intrinsic reasons vs doing something for extrinsic reasons.....I don't think anyone has any issues with someone challenging themselves, but I think that people doing something for the ego and extrinsic rewards does not (as i think it impacts most people) seem quite as 'noble' a venture....I know that is where I see the 'dumbing down' of not just running, but many things..... egs a pro sports figure who plays for the love of the game vs the one who plays for the paycheque....

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AndyHass
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posted Sep-27-2006 06:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AndyHass   Click Here to Email AndyHass     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyone who thinks this comes down to fast vs slow, or elite vs non-elite, is really not understanding what is being said here.

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