posted Jan-31-2006 09:04 AM
I am running Myrtle Beach on the 18th (Feb). If I BQ it will be by the skin of my teeth, so I am trying not to do anything unnessesary or stupid to slow myself down. I typically slow down at water stations whenever they are offered and drink whatever they give me. I don't slow down on purpose, but there are traffic jams, being careful not to collide with anyone, etc.
I do not drink that often during training and am thinking of skipping some water stations, or having my hubby give me water at alternative places on the course. So how often do I really need to drink, and how much? FYI I rarely drink at all during a training run unless it is longer than 13 miles in which case I probably drink 3-4 oz every 5k or so.
posted Jan-31-2006 11:17 AM
I ran Phoenix this month. I am from New England with higher humidity, even in winter.
Hydration is very important. Recently, on Discovery channel a piece about 6 Day War commented on how Israeli army marched farther becasue of more frequent hydration.
Determine your hydration needs (weigh, run, weigh) to determine what you need per hour (or mile or whatever unit of measure).
Without hydration, the electrolyte xfer that takes place at the celular level of muscle concentric and eccentric contraction will not function as well as possible.
I actually find I speed up through water stops because I want to get a way from the crowds.
I've done 5, completed 4.(mostly in New England.. water has always been important.
posted Jan-31-2006 02:35 PM
I've tried several strategies. My biggest problem has always been drinking in a marathon. In order to get any decent volume of water, I have to stop and that totally kills my rhythym.
So my solution was to drink just a little at every single stop. I take a gulp, drop the rest and keep on going. Never have to break my stride, the single gulp doesn't mess up my breathing and I stay fairly well hydrated.
posted Jan-31-2006 03:16 PM
Are you training in the same area as you are running? - changes in humidity and temp will play a part in how much water/gatorade you need. If you are worried about time, skip the first stations to avoid crowds but not drinking enough may slow you down in the later stages of the race and then it may be too late to replenish to finish strong. Like JO said a little each time is still helpful.
posted Jan-31-2006 04:03 PM
I tend to drink to much to early and end up having to pee multiple times. Everyone is different and you have to find the best routine for you. If you don't drink much on your long runs, why would you change that in a marathon?
posted Jan-31-2006 04:14 PM
I personally rarely skip a water stop- but i've learned to efficiently grab a cup, take one gulp- and keep 'er going- don't like water, always look forward to the gatorade!
I personally think sports drinks help you out some- just don't stop and down them- just grab, squeeze the corner to make a "no spill" edge, quick gulp, and go- minimal slowing of pace and time!
posted Feb-08-2006 01:32 AM
I am a fairly accomplished marathoner having completed 10-12; last year I had a personal best at Boston breaking three hours on a 70 degree day.
I have a very good coach who assures me (and I will attest to this) that hydration may be the single most important factor in running the Marathon.
You can not afford to dehydrate more than 2% of your training weight, or your perceived exertion will just go through the roof. Moreover, he seems to feel that the magic number is about 5 liters of water in an average race, perhaps a bit less for women. This is a phenomenal amount of water, and frankly, it's not so comfortable to take it in, but it is crucial.
That said, you need to watch out for hyponatremia. This is where you take in so much water that you dilute the electrolytes in your blood, and it can lead to death. It is usually more of a problem for slower runners who are on the course for a long time.
The only way to really manage your fluid balance is to know how much you lose per hour. Before your long runs, weigh yourself naked, but holding any water you plan to consume during the run. I usually carry a Camel Back, so I just get on the scale holding the plastic liner. Go out for your run. Try not to take any bathroom breaks along the way. When you get back, before going to the bathroom get on the scale naked again. The difference is how much weight you lost in sweat. One pound is equal to about sixteen ounces or half a liter. If you do this a number of times and under different temperature conditions, you will begin to get a pretty good idea of how much you lose per hour running. If you run in cold places, running overdressed can help simulate conditions if you think race day is going to be warmer.
Once you know your sweat rate, you can come up with a race-day hydration plan. Figure that you need to take in sixteen ounces for every pound that you are going to lose during the race. You can reduce the total intake by an amount equal to 2% of your training weight since you can afford to dehydrate this much. But plan to be finished with your drinking by the time you're half an hour from the finish line; water taken during this final period won't have time to be transported through the lining of your stomach and into your blood.
Also know this about getting fluids across your stomach lining. 1) Water transfers more readily than fluids with carbohydrates included, such as gatorade. 2) The colder the fluid, the faster it will transfer. 3) The fuller the stomach, the faster it will transfer. 4) At higher levels of exertion, say above 70% of max heart rate, the transfer rate drops from about 1 liter per hour to half a liter per hour; this is a real problem if you're sweating at two liters per hour because it become almost impossible to keep up with the loss. That's part of why hot days are so bad and it's so important to try to become heat aclimatized by running in hot clothing during the final weeks before a warm-weather marathon.
To get a jump on the drinking, I take two, sixteen-ounce bottles to the start. The first I drink one minute before the start. The second, I down within the first mile or two. There's one liter in the bag right at the start.
It goes without saying that it is also crucial to be hydrated before the race begins. Adding salt to your diet in the days prior may also help you to articificially elevate the water levels in your body. No matter what though, I like to have my last drink (which usually consists of a liter) four hours prior to start time. This gives your body a chance to empty your bladder entirely. The neat thing is that at marathon pace, your kidneys pretty much shut down, so you shouldn't have to urinate at all during the race. To help guarantee this though, I actually wear a garbage bag to the start and kind of hide undeneath so that I can pee into the 16 oz bottle after downing its contents right before the gun goes off (it helps to be a guy; and using a 20 oz. wide-mouth gatorade bottle also helps); not a time to be shy.
You then need to get your remaining fluids at the water stops. Simply divide by the number of stops, and you'll know how much to drink at each. Assume that out of any cup, you're not likely to actually ingest more than about 3 oz. It helps to squeeze the tops shut and sip from the corner, and if things are too crowded, you can grab one glass, grab a second, pinch their tops, and drink when you are well away from the tables. If you need more than two, you'll probably have to stop for a second to drink, but I guarantee you, any time you lose stopping, you'll more than make up for by running fully hydrated. Drinking on the run is a true art form, and you'll get better at it over time. That's one of the things that's so interesting about the marathon distance; there are really alot of different skills you need to master.
Another option, which I find quite effective, is to station a friend or family member at about miles 6, 12, and 18, and give them a sixteen ounce squeeze bottle to hand to you. You should be able to tell them pretty precisely when you'll be there, particularly if you're trying to qualify for Boston. This combined w. the two bottles at the start assures you about 2.5 liters of readily accessible water.
I should warn that carrying alot of fluid in the stomach doesn't feel great, and you should try it in practice and some shorter races to get used to it. If you feel fluid sloshing around and want to avoid taking more water at that particular point, it's probably fine as it's not going to really get in to your body before what's already in there empties, but as mentioned, the greater fullness will help speed the transfer.
Hope this helps. It really is very important. I'm sure you've got by on less in training and races, but you'll be amazed at the difference this makes a the marathon distance.
quote:Originally posted by sea biscuit: I am a fairly accomplished marathoner having completed 10-12; last year I had a personal best at Boston breaking three hours on a 70 degree day.
I have a very good coach who assures me (and I will attest to this) that hydration may be the single most important factor in running the Marathon.
You can not afford to dehydrate more than 2% of your training weight, or your perceived exertion will just go through the roof. Moreover, he seems to feel that the magic number is about 5 liters of water in an average race, perhaps a bit less for women. This is a phenomenal amount of water, and frankly, it's not so comfortable to take it in, but it is crucial.
That said, you need to watch out for hyponatremia. This is where you take in so much water that you dilute the electrolytes in your blood, and it can lead to death. It is usually more of a problem for slower runners who are on the course for a long time.
The only way to really manage your fluid balance is to know how much you lose per hour. Before your long runs, weigh yourself naked, but holding any water you plan to consume during the run. I usually carry a Camel Back, so I just get on the scale holding the plastic liner. Go out for your run. Try not to take any bathroom breaks along the way. When you get back, before going to the bathroom get on the scale naked again. The difference is how much weight you lost in sweat. One pound is equal to about sixteen ounces or half a liter. If you do this a number of times and under different temperature conditions, you will begin to get a pretty good idea of how much you lose per hour running. If you run in cold places, running overdressed can help simulate conditions if you think race day is going to be warmer.
Once you know your sweat rate, you can come up with a race-day hydration plan. Figure that you need to take in sixteen ounces for every pound that you are going to lose during the race. You can reduce the total intake by an amount equal to 2% of your training weight since you can afford to dehydrate this much. But plan to be finished with your drinking by the time you're half an hour from the finish line; water taken during this final period won't have time to be transported through the lining of your stomach and into your blood.
Also know this about getting fluids across your stomach lining. 1) Water transfers more readily than fluids with carbohydrates included, such as gatorade. 2) The colder the fluid, the faster it will transfer. 3) The fuller the stomach, the faster it will transfer. 4) At higher levels of exertion, say above 70% of max heart rate, the transfer rate drops from about 1 liter per hour to half a liter per hour; this is a real problem if you're sweating at two liters per hour because it become almost impossible to keep up with the loss. That's part of why hot days are so bad and it's so important to try to become heat aclimatized by running in hot clothing during the final weeks before a warm-weather marathon.
To get a jump on the drinking, I take two, sixteen-ounce bottles to the start. The first I drink one minute before the start. The second, I down within the first mile or two. There's one liter in the bag right at the start.
It goes without saying that it is also crucial to be hydrated before the race begins. Adding salt to your diet in the days prior may also help you to articificially elevate the water levels in your body. No matter what though, I like to have my last drink (which usually consists of a liter) four hours prior to start time. This gives your body a chance to empty your bladder entirely. The neat thing is that at marathon pace, your kidneys pretty much shut down, so you shouldn't have to urinate at all during the race. To help guarantee this though, I actually wear a garbage bag to the start and kind of hide undeneath so that I can pee into the 16 oz bottle after downing its contents right before the gun goes off (it helps to be a guy; and using a 20 oz. wide-mouth gatorade bottle also helps); not a time to be shy.
You then need to get your remaining fluids at the water stops. Simply divide by the number of stops, and you'll know how much to drink at each. Assume that out of any cup, you're not likely to actually ingest more than about 3 oz. It helps to squeeze the tops shut and sip from the corner, and if things are too crowded, you can grab one glass, grab a second, pinch their tops, and drink when you are well away from the tables. If you need more than two, you'll probably have to stop for a second to drink, but I guarantee you, any time you lose stopping, you'll more than make up for by running fully hydrated. Drinking on the run is a true art form, and you'll get better at it over time. That's one of the things that's so interesting about the marathon distance; there are really alot of different skills you need to master.
Another option, which I find quite effective, is to station a friend or family member at about miles 6, 12, and 18, and give them a sixteen ounce squeeze bottle to hand to you. You should be able to tell them pretty precisely when you'll be there, particularly if you're trying to qualify for Boston. This combined w. the two bottles at the start assures you about 2.5 liters of readily accessible water.
I should warn that carrying alot of fluid in the stomach doesn't feel great, and you should try it in practice and some shorter races to get used to it. If you feel fluid sloshing around and want to avoid taking more water at that particular point, it's probably fine as it's not going to really get in to your body before what's already in there empties, but as mentioned, the greater fullness will help speed the transfer.
Hope this helps. It really is very important. I'm sure you've got by on less in training and races, but you'll be amazed at the difference this makes a the marathon distance.
Best of luck.
That's a lot to soak in Seabiscuit. I am as worried as output as I am about input. I seem to always have to stop to pee once or twice late in the race. Older racer, smaller bladder.etc... Other people's advice has been to stop drinking an hour before the race, go to the washroom before the race and then start up drinking during.
posted Feb-09-2006 12:43 AM
Yes. Sorry for the length. I myself find that I need to stop drinking 4 hours before the race, but I usually slam a full liter at that time, so it may take longer to process. And even if I hit the bathroom 10 minutes before the start, there's a good chance I'll have to go shortly after that which is why I like to go in the bottle AT the start.
If you are racing the marathon distance your heart-rate should be at about 75% of max. Since the kidneys stop processing at about 70% of max, you shouldn't be making urine during the race. I imagine this is further supported by the fact that you most people also dehydrate along the way.
If you are needing to pee, it may mean that you have a faster marathon in you, though I suppose some people's physiology could be different enough that it's a problem. Or maybe you're not much of a sweater, in which case you might not equire as much fluid.
If you are just sort of jogging the course, it's a different story however. I know that on my long runs, which are pretty slow, I often need to pee, but in the race, it's almost never a problem. In fact, the guy who coaches me tracks alot of his athletes to see when they start making urine after the race. The most hydrated of them still require a good 45 minutes, while the really dehydrated ones can take up to two or three hours.
All that aside, the end of a marathon is usually fairly uncomfortable anyways. I say better to be suffering from a full bladder than dehydration.
posted Feb-09-2006 08:59 AM
So if I don't reach 75% of my max HR until 10 miles into the race I could/should be running faster? It takes that long for it to get up there in training if I run the pace that would give me a BQ....
quote:Originally posted by sea biscuit: Yes. Sorry for the length.
No, that's an excellent, informative post. I'm saving it. Thank you!
Hydration killed me at Boston last year. I planned carefully, went to the hydration seminars, etc., but with the heat (75, thank you, not 70!) and all the warnings about hyponatremia, I didn't drink enough. I started cramping halfway through, and limped in the last few miles.
Part of it was that it never occurred to me that anyone would drink at every water stop, spaced one per mile. All my other marathons and halfs, the water stops are every 2-3 miles. I've always done fine hitting each one, alternating water and Gatorade with each stop. I just assumed that was the natural strategy at Boston, as well, and that the extra stops were just to reduce crowding. But with the heat, I guess the sensible thing would have been to use every stop. (I train in Vancouver, generally 40-55 degrees.)
quote:I myself find that I need to stop drinking 4 hours before the race, but I usually slam a full liter at that time, so it may take longer to process. And even if I hit the bathroom 10 minutes before the start, there's a good chance I'll have to go shortly after that which is why I like to go in the bottle AT the start.
I generally chug half a liter, and snarf half a banana, just before the gun goes off. (I forgot my banana at Boston - might have contributed to lower salts.) Carrying the extra half liter makes sense, but I know that m form is really thrown off when I carry anything.
I'll have to think about whether I'm brave enough to pee in a bottle in the start line. I have yet to have to go during a race, but I always stress about it beforehand and hit the portapotties multiple times. At Boston that's even harder.
For Boston this year, I'm putting in more miles, and plan on drinking more, and maybe taking salt tablets. At least, if it's over 60ish.
posted Feb-20-2006 11:36 PM
Thanks for asking.... I ran a dissapointing 3:58. But, it was a tough winter for me. I had quality long runs on Sundays but not much else (No one to watch my daughter and too cold for the running stroller). I ran the right pace til mile 18, crashed and burned and coasted in. Probably shoulda dropped out but I drove all that way and had to at least get the medal. So, I'll lbe trying again at the flying pig....
posted Feb-20-2006 11:38 PM
Just wanted to also mention that this was a good race for spectators- I saw my fam about 8 times, so I skipped that many water stops coz hubby gave me drinks when I saw him. Worked out as planned, except for the early appearance of "the Wall"
posted Feb-21-2006 08:57 PM
I've avoided having to go to the bathroom during my last two marathons. Here's how I do it:
I wake up about 3 hours before the marathon and immediately have one cup of coffee. I then drink about 12-16 oz of a sports drink no later than an hour before the start. I will have about 7 oz about 15 minutes before the start.
I carry a six bottle fuel belt, and fortunately have had my wife hand me another at mile 14. Each fuel bottle contains about 6-7 oz of sports drink, and none of it's wasted. To me, carrying the extra weight is worth more than the possible dehydration.
3 marathons ago, I tried to run without the fuel belt and relied on the water stations. With cups not containing more than 3-4 oz, I had to grab two each time and choked and spilled lots of it. One time I even missed the water station.
The nice thing about the fuel belt is that I can take my time drinking. Sometimes I'll finish the bottle over a quarter mile away from when I start drinking it.
I'm running around a 7:38 mile, so drinking 6-7 oz every 15 minutes (approximate water station locations), I'm taking in about 24-28 oz per hour. This is the recommended amount for my weight.
posted Feb-22-2006 06:54 PM
I just completed my best run in Austin this week. I will give my experience, without any technical background.
First, I had hydrated very well for the week leading up to the race. On race day morning, I drank about 12 oz of apple juice when I woke up, and actually forgot to bring a water bottle. As I look back, that may have been a good thing because I had no need to urinate during the race.
During the race, I typically stopped at every other watering hole (about 4 mile increments). During the 1st 16 miles, I usually got a half cup down. After that, I was starting to feel thirsty so I made sure to drink the full cups. Maybe I was a little bit dehydrated later in the race.
I did make one significant change this marathon, and I am interested in feedback here. I went 100% Powerade, vs water. My thought process was: why not get the added benefits from the sports drink? Am I losing anything by doing this? It seemed to work alright.....
posted Jan-31-2006 09:04 AM
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