posted Dec-19-2005 02:48 PM               

Some background on my progression:
2003: 25 mpw on 3-4 runs
Spring 2004: 35 mpw on 4-5 runs
Fall 2004: 45 mpw on 4-6 runs.
Winter 2005: I ran 50-60 mpw on 6-7 runs. Used DRF as guide.

Those of you familiar with DRF knows that JD does not give rigid training schedules. Rather, he gives the guidance and theory and allows us to plan out own weeks. He proposes 4 phases of training, with each preparing the runner for the next phase.

Phase One is called "Foundation/Injury Prevention." Essentially, its all Easy paced running. Nearing the end of this phase, he recommends ending Phase 1 with 2-3 weeks at max mpw for the season in order to adapt to the volume before adapting to quality running. Its seemed to work for me in the past.

This season, I have 5 weeks of Phase One planned. The weeks are as follows:

18. 42
17. 48
16. 54
15. 54
14. 60 (my max mpw for this season)

In my experience, there are challenges to Phase One running.

- All easy running leads to boredom.
- It is difficult to attain max milage with no weekend long runs

So, like last season, I will do 7 runs per week (no doubles) in order to achieve 54 and 60 mpw. I'm normally 6 runs per week.

The only other thing I do in addition is to add striders 1-2x per week in order to keep my legs turning over. There's something to doing strides that helps my range of motion.

I know a lot of colligiates use DRF for their racing seasons. I wonder if there are any other marathoners out there that use DRF? It seems like Pfitz is the popular choice.

Thanks, LT

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[This message has been edited by ltrun (edited Dec-23-2005).]

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posted Dec-19-2005 03:28 PM               

I too am using DRF getting ready for Boston in April.
I am using the Elite Marathon Program and will be peaking at 120 mpw.

I really like the freedom you get with JD's program outlines that allow you to fill in the blanks yourself.

The Elite Marathon program is a little different because it combines some of the phases. But having 2 quality workouts (Q1 and Q2) per week is the same as in the other programs in later phases.

Last week (18 weeks out) started with the Q1 and Q2 workouts and are quite challenging.
I am doing them on Mondays and Fridays, but may switch my Friday intervals, to Thursday and run with the run-insight.com guys at the BW indoor track.

Today's Q1 workout was probably one of the hardest workouts I've done this off season.
It went like this:

-- 2 miles w/u
-- 3 miles @ 5:50 pace
-- 9 miles or 1 hour (E) pace
-- 3 miles @ 5:50 pace
-- 2 miles w/d

Totaling 19 miles
I will be 91-95 miles this week.

My weeks are going something like this:

-- 17 weeks: 91-95 miles
-- 16 weeks: 80-84 miles (cut back week)
-- 15 weeks: 104-108 miles
-- 14 weeks: 104-108 miles
-- 13 weeks: 80-84 miles (cut back week)
-- 12 weeks: 116-120 miles
-- 11 weeks: 104-108 miles
-- 10 weeks: 92-96 miles

I'll stop there for now and update as time progresses.

Because I am an old fart, I normally post my weekly training summary in the B&B forum under the 40/40 (40 or more miles per week/ 40 years old or older) topic 40/40 club.

Thanks again Lloyd for your help in Detroit, I could not have run the race without your help!

I look forward to seeing how your training goes!!

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Ron

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[This message has been edited by rdracing (edited Dec-19-2005).]

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posted Dec-19-2005 05:07 PM               

Btw, I did that TLT (Tempo-Long-Tempo) run last season. During that last 3mi T my legs got really heavy.

I'm looking to share my schedule, my thoughts, and my progress in the weeks to come!

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posted Dec-19-2005 05:25 PM               

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posted Dec-20-2005 10:32 AM               

- All easy running leads to boredom.
- It is difficult to attain max milage with no weekend long runs"

I really enjoyed reading your journal from last year. Congratulations on your results.

I have DRF v2 with Culpepper on the cover. I don't know how different it is but mine says for Phase 1 -- 6 or MORE weeks easy running, long run up to 25% of weekly mileage or 2.5 hours whatever is less. 1 or 2 runs a day to reach mileage goal. Add 6-8 striders after 2-3 runs.

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posted Dec-22-2005 10:17 PM               

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posted Dec-23-2005 09:10 AM               

It isn"t because you are too heavy. As a human being, you may look great and feel great, but as a racer, you"re too heavy.

You are approaching the age where it will start to take its toll in the form of injury.

Aim at 140 - - - -as start. Even that is too heavy, but you'll start to see progress.

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posted Dec-23-2005 12:47 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by cam0103:
This year was my first year using DRF and it definitely worked for me. I will be using DRF as I prepare for the portland marathon in Oct. (I know it's a ways off but my last try was not very pretty) I plan to peak around 60 mpw but I will be doing it with doubles.

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yeah, through the season I'm doing weeks ranging from 48-60 mpw. my challenge is that I don't do doubles. I go for 1 run per day.

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posted Dec-23-2005 12:50 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bigdave10000:
"In my experience, there are challenges to Phase One running.

- All easy running leads to boredom.
- It is difficult to attain max milage with no weekend long runs"

I really enjoyed reading your journal from last year. Congratulations on your results.

I have DRF v2 with Culpepper on the cover. I don't know how different it is but mine says for Phase 1 -- 6 or MORE weeks easy running, long run up to 25% of weekly mileage or 2.5 hours whatever is less. 1 or 2 runs a day to reach mileage goal. Add 6-8 striders after 2-3 runs.

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Thanks Dave. Its is nice to go back over the journal. Im sure it will help when planning and executing this season's training. Good luck with yours.

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posted Dec-23-2005 01:02 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by cjk:
At age thirty four you have much talent and too much weight. At 66" and given your age , your half marathon should be at 1:20-1:22.

It isn"t because you are too heavy. As a human being, you may look great and feel great, but as a racer, you"re too heavy.

You are approaching the age where it will start to take its toll in the form of injury.

Aim at 140 - - - -as start. Even that is too heavy, but you'll start to see progress.

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cjk: I take that as a compliment. I guess I can agree with you. Less weight and I'll be faster. But at what price? Perhaps I dont overly worry about my diet. I eat lots and don't skimp. I believe a little weight helps me to stay healthy. I haven't been sidelined yet and I'm going okay with 9 marathons and 2 ultras in the last 2.5 years.

Theres probably alot of other things I could do to get faster. How about 70-80 mpw? Or 90-100mpw? I could probably stop hanging out in smoky bars and staying out until wee hours enjoy my fav band. My 15 years of Marlboros at a pack-a-day probably didn't help my running either.

I do appriciate your input. Talent? Never thought that was me regarding running.

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posted Dec-23-2005 02:55 PM               

At thirty four, those pounds are strength pounds. You have shown that by staying healthy through your distance runs.

You need to take a time period AFTER getting down to 140 pounds when you run 5ks in 17 and change and 10ks in the low 34's, then you see what weight loss means in racing.

4 months (time period)

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posted Dec-26-2005 02:34 PM               

My planning considerations:

- Goal is to average about 55 mpw for the season and my high milage week is 60. Most weeks are 48(80%) and 54(%90) but will hit 60 mpw several times throughout the season.

- I plan on 6-7 seven runs per week. During Phase 1, I'm more prone to run 7 times per week since it is difficult for me to hit the milage goal when there are no real long runs. But when we progress to the next phases, I've more 6 day weeks than anything else. I enjoy the day off.

- No doubles. I haven't had the need to do doubles yet. I've found that my body likes the 24 and sometimes 36 hours off between runs. The only exception to this rule is that last year I did end up running a few times 10-12 hours between runs doing a evening run followed by a morning run. I thought that this pattern added some toughness to my running. Although it was all easy running, learning how to rebound and run again soon made me a better runner. I'll try to do this a few times again this year, but generally I only run once per day. If I have any additional energy for a workout, I'm better off doing core/strength work instead of a second daily run.

- My week has a pattern to it:
Sun- Trail or Recovery run
Mon- Easy run and XT
Tues- Speed/Intervals
Wed- Easy/XT
Thur- Mid-long run
Fri- Rest or easy run
Sat- Long easy run

One of the things I like about DRF is that I can make Saturday my long run day. That works best for me. The other thing is that my long run will progess slowly--start with 12 miler last weekend and increase by 2 miles every 14 days. Compared to other plans I've seen, this seems conservative.

- It appears that I only do one Quality run per week. Once phase 2 comes around, the Tuesday track session is the Q1 workout for the week. I really dont have a Q2 workout planned, although my weekly long run could be a Q2, especially if I finish them with some MP miles at the end of the long run. But primarily, I am satisfied if I have one solid Quality workout per week. All else can be easy pace.

My whole line of thinking on this is that i want to stay healthy and make it to the starting line in good health. Looking at this, I may be undertraining. But for sure, I don't want to peak in training, I want to be in good shape for the later phases and the goal race.

- Strides. Another thought on Ph1 running is that it all easy running. The exception are the striders. Now in my third week of Ph1, I will add 1-2 days of striders. Striders, to me, are usually done in sets of 4-6 and done as a cool down to an easy run. Usually takes 5-7 minutes extra to knock out 4-6 reps. The day before a track session is my favorite day to do them. I've tried strides in the middle of a run, but they don't work as well that way. I don't like to rush them and I like good recoveries inbetween strides. I'm not sure about the whole science of doing strides, but I know they are helpful. My favorite place to do them is on the grass, or on the local HS "field turf" football field. The soft surface feels like heaven on my joints. No hard and fast rule on strides, but within a 100-120 meter stride, I usually only get to full acceleration for about 20-30m with no abrupt starting or stopping. Rather its a gradual acceleration and deceleration.

- Planning the DRF. For this season I chose 18 weeks for my season. The good news about DRF is that he gives a calendar no matter how many weeks use have available. His optimal plan is 24 weeks divided into 4 six-week phases. However, since I have less, he gives the guidance on how to divide the available weeks. For an 18 week schedule, according to the book, my 18 weeks should be divided as such:

Priority numbering system to determine number of weeks per phase

PI: 4 weeks
PII: 4 weeks
PIII: 6 weeks
PIV: 4 weeks

Admittedly, my schedule is somewhat different. For no reason that I can think of at this time, my schedule looks as such:

PI: 5 weeks (Base)
PII: 5 weeks (I-pace)
PIII: 5 weeks (T-pace)
PIV: 3 weeks (fine tune and taper)

Okay, thats some of the thoughts on my mind as I progress in the next 16 weeks to my goal marathon in April. Another 3 weeks to go of Phase 1 before moving to Phase 2.

In my next post, the next topic to discuss is training intensities using the VDOT chart. Last year I trained at the prescribed intensites for VDOT 51-52. This year I was hoping to train at 53. I'm lightly raced right now, but my race times from last fall indicate in the range. My group is doing a 2 mile time trial this week (weather permitting) and I will verify my VDOT then.

Regards, LTrun

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posted Dec-30-2005 02:34 PM               

Okay. This week I did a 2 mile time trial. It wasn't optimal conditions, but not a big deal. Ran 12:24 on the track (8 laps + 18 meters) The chart says this is about VDOT 50.

Last season for the marathon, I trained at a mix of VDOT 51-52.

My races from this fall (18:58 for 5K, 1:26:19 for 1/2M) show I was around VDOT 53.

So I am not that far off the level where I want to train: VDOT 53.

Here is a comparision of VDOT 50 vs. (VDOT 53)

E pace: 8:07 (7:52)
MP: 7:17 (6:56)
T pace: 6:51 (6:32)
I pace (per 400): 93 (90)

So I feel I am fine if I continue my E pace runs at the 8:00-8:30 range. I have not been a stickler about maintaining my Easy run pace to within the prescribed E pace. I'm more concerned with getting the volume up and adapting to the weekly milage, even if it means going a bit slower. Does anyone disagree that going a little slower on the E pace runs will not be detrimental to the overall program?

My next trial is a 5k race in mid-February. This will be near the end of Phase 2 and after 3-4 weeks of Intervals. I expect the 5k result to correspond closer to VDOT 53 at that point in the season. We'll see.

Lastly, I've started adding 1-2 sessions per week of strides after an easy run. I usually only do 4-6 reps and I feel that this is a huge benefit to my speed and health.

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posted Dec-30-2005 03:18 PM               

I have been using a combination of the VDOT charts along with the pace charts from the McMillan running website. I like the McMillan charts because they give you a range of paces rather than a single number . I'm sure the formulas used are within 1 or 2% of each other anyways.

I hope your training is going well and enjoy the holidays .

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Ron

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posted Jan-09-2006 12:41 PM               

I've already added the sets of 4-6 strides as a cool-down 1-2 times per week. The strides really seem to remove any aches and pains that I have. The short time spent at full speed feels really powerful.

Regarding weekly milage, I've been able to stay on target as planned. My last 4 weeks have been progressing: 42, 48, 54, 55. This week I peak at 60. Still, no doubles, so reaching 60 this week is a bit of a stretch, but its doable. This week looks as such:

Su-10, M-6, Tu-10, W-5, Th-10, F-5, Sa-14

Looking forward to starting a new thread for Phase 2. I must admit that this phase of ALL easy running is starting to get old. But I also understand the necessity. As Daniels stated, the goal of each phase is to prepare one for the next phase. I feel that that is being accomplished--albeit slowy.

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posted Jan-15-2006 05:17 PM               

Even though 60mpw is not much for many visitors to this site, it is relative to me. I hit my max miles for the season. Consistency will be my key.

Onwards...Phase 2.

RDRacing, how's your season going?

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posted Jan-15-2006 10:27 PM            

IĄŻll be using DanielsĄŻ marathon training plan A as well. I live in Australia and my marathon is on 3 July 2006. My present PBs are 3:17 for marathon (Oct 05) and 39:38 for 10K (Nov 05). IĄŻd say that I am now probably in the 52 VDOT shape. Depending on how my training goes, IĄŻd like to target a sub-3 marathon (requires VDOT 54?)

This week marks Week -24 from the race date and the official beginning of Phase 1. However, I am a bit naughty and will not follow JackĄŻs guidelines on Base Training. I have a handful of races to do in the couple of weeks: 5K on 22/01, 8K on 26/01, 16K on 29/01 (three races in 7 days, yikes!) and 10K on 12/02. IĄŻm currently incorporating 2 speed sessions a week. Last week I did 4x1200m @ 5k pace and 5k continuos run @ T-pace to prepare for these races. My mileage last week was 75k (47 miles).

IĄŻm planning approx. 60 mpw (100 kmpw) as peak mileage (could be 70miles if IĄŻm up to it). For the marathon training last year, I did a few weeks at 50 miles, hence I do not think ramping up to 60-ish mpw a big issue.

My training plan for Phase 1 is as follows:

Week 24 : 40 miles (incl. 4x1200m T-pace & 5miles M-pace mid-week & 5k race on 22/01). Hence, around 30 miles of E-pace running
Week 23: 43 miles (incl. 8k race on 26/01 & 16K race on 29/01). Hence, around 28miles of E-pace running
Week 22: ~50 miles, mostly E-pace running (incl. 2-hour long run & some M-pace running)
Week 21: 40 miles (incl. 4x1200m T-pace mid-week & 10K race on 29/02). Hence, ~30miles of E-pace running
Week 19-20: ~50-55 miles, mostly E-pace running (incl. 2hr long run & some M-pace running)

Not really a typical base training, but I love races and learn a lot from them.

All the best to you all.

[This message has been edited by TheNeedToRun (edited Jan-15-2006).]

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posted Jan-16-2006 07:27 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by TheNeedToRun:
Hey guys,

IĄŻll be using DanielsĄŻ marathon training plan A as well. I live in Australia and my marathon is on 3 July 2006. My present PBs are 3:17 for marathon (Oct 05) and 39:38 for 10K (Nov 05). IĄŻd say that I am now probably in the 52 VDOT shape. Depending on how my training goes, IĄŻd like to target a sub-3 marathon (requires VDOT 54?)
[This message has been edited by TheNeedToRun (edited Jan-15-2006).]

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TNTR, Good luck with your season. About a year ago, my PRs were similar to you. I trained at VDOT51-52 for last marathon season and it resulted in 3:09 marathon on a hilly course.

I have this year's and last year's plan on a spreadsheet. Email if interested.

What city? This time of year, must be warmer than Ohio.

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posted Jan-21-2006 11:51 PM            

I did a 5k race today in 19:10 (14secs PB). Was aiming for sub-19 but the course was slightly hilly and my shoe lace was loose after km 2. Jack's table puts me at 52-53 VDOT - in line with my 10K PB of 39:38 and indicates potential <3:04 marathon.

I've been training at 52 VDOT pace for the last few months (albeit 3 weeks break in December), so will aim to upgrade to 53 VDOT training pace next month.

I also have a 8K and 10 milers race this week, so my Week -23 will consist of slow, recovery runs. Not a typical marathon plan that Jack Daniels envisages, but I really love PBs.

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