posted Jul-20-2006 03:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lansingrunner:
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I was done for but realized I should continue to 5k distance and did this in a total time of 20:31. I am taking today off....time to work on speedwork now. My next goal will be sub 21 outdoors.

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Jul 25 Tues Okemos HS Track - Up & Down Long Ladder 2 person relay, each runs 800-1000-1200-1000-800.

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posted Jul-24-2006 02:09 AM               

I know I could have gone faster, my legs felt weak at the begining of the race

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posted Jul-24-2006 11:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by corland14:
Date: 7/22/06
Time: 20:51
Excuses:
1. Worked directing traffic on my feet from 6pm till midnight the night before
2. 5 hours sleep
3. Fair food during traffic detail = gut rot

I know I could have gone faster, my legs felt weak at the begining of the race

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posted Jul-27-2006 11:03 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lansingrunner:
I guess you are right I did do speed training but still it was about 6:36 mile pace and I will have to run faster pace than that to do a 20 minute 5k.

My treadmill does have an incline but does not have a readout of percent grade. I must use a hand level to find this. I assume it is at 0 but if I put a level on it, it appears to be about 1% grade so maybe they automatically dialed it in at 1% to start.

I can do 6 1/2 miles in 3:15 but it might be pretty difficult to run the recoveries at 7.5 MPH. Last week I ran 3 X 1 mile at 6:40 mile pace with 2:00 recovery walk.

This morning I ran outside 5 miles in 37:29 or 7:30 mile pace.

I might attempt your suggestion and see how it feels. Thanks.

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I had to change my screen name to Michigan Flyer because for some reason it will not accept my password for lansingrunner anymore.

Well I have run 107 miles in the 1st 27 days of July. Not super mileage but almost 28 miles a week is not bad. I have run a bunch of 5 mile morning runs most miles between 7:00 and 7:40.

A 7:30 mile is fairly easy.
A 7:00 mile I have to put some effort in but is not painful.

I probably should run a time trial 5k this week outdoors to see how I am progressing. I would be very happy with a sub 21 and I would have to push hard on the 1st mile to run about 6:40. Or do you think I should try to save something on mile 1 so I can reach back in the final mile?

I am pretty confident I can bring home a 6:40 last mile with all my 5 mile runs. It is mile #2 that concerns me...I should be able to run that in sub 7.

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posted Jul-27-2006 12:23 PM            

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posted Jul-27-2006 01:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:

I probably should run a time trial 5k this week outdoors to see how I am progressing. I would be very happy with a sub 21 and I would have to push hard on the 1st mile to run about 6:40. Or do you think I should try to save something on mile 1 so I can reach back in the final mile?

I am pretty confident I can bring home a 6:40 last mile with all my 5 mile runs. It is mile #2 that concerns me...I should be able to run that in sub 7.

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You may want to try

http://www.runningfoundation.com/Entry_Forms/grand_entry.html

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posted Jul-27-2006 10:22 PM            

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posted Jul-28-2006 07:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by kahkah:
You may want to try

http://www.runningfoundation.com/Entry_Forms/grand_entry.html

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That is the Grand Woods Run which is a trail run. I ran that race last July 31 after 3 grueling months of 30 miles per week.
I wanted to break 20 so badly. I ran the 1st mile in 6:37, mile 2 in 6:49, mile 3 in 6:49. My finishing time was 20:51.

Grass and dirt trails took about a minute from my 5k time and I was so dissapointed I hardly ran the rest of the year. Thanks for trying to find me a race but I think I will run alone on my own course I measured.

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posted Jul-30-2006 11:27 AM            

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posted Jul-30-2006 01:20 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by paulmitch:
When you guys say sub 20 5K do you mean race time, or if it takes a while to cross the start net time. my time was under 20 but my gun time was like 20:10 does it matter to everyone?

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Your official time is chip time, not gun time. However, I think you are stuck with the gun time if chip timing is not used. I've wrestled with that problem too. You hate to say that you ran 19:xx when something different appears in offical results--it's like people will thing you were exaggerating, but you know that you did it. I write the time that they give me in my log as official result, but make a note of what my actual time was. You might as well stick around until you run one that removes all doubt

Nice race

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posted Aug-03-2006 05:29 PM            

Finally, 2 months ago, I decided to sign up for some easy track races to motivate me to train hard again. The races are easy because the participants are usually not very strong. I ran 100/200/400/1.5k/5k back to back to back. Did ok overall. For the last race which was the 5k, I didn't do too well and came in at over 22 min, as I was exhausted by doing 5 races within 4 hours.

Since then, I upped my mileage and intensity. Doing intervals like 3*2miles and 8*800m at a higher intensity. I am not doing runs longer than 10 miles yet, probably will do it later. Going over this topic has motivated me to join you guys in the club of sub-20 5k. Hopefully, I will have good news to share with you later.

------------------
Happy running !

My Profile

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posted Aug-04-2006 07:21 AM            

I got about 6 hours of sleep and had run 40 miles in the last week (near my top week ever) but I was anxious to see what kind of times I could post outside. I was hoping for sub 21 and had a very hard month of training even if I had run 4 miles yesterday morning I was still anxious to run a 5k hard outside.

I only had time to run a slow 1/2 mile before the start. I started out and tried to push the pace but I didn't have it in me at 6 AM. I hit 1/2 mile in 3:29 which was a little slower than I wanted but told myself to finish the route to see where I am at.

I hit a mile in 7:06 and scratched my head...man this is pretty bad I had been running 5 miles at 7:06 pace a couple weeks ago. I tried to speed up but I am lazy and kept to the edge of my comfort zone. Hit 1.5 miles in 10:43 again just slower than I had hoped...Well I need to beat 22 I thought so I kept on.

2 miles came and went in 14:19...a 7:13 2nd mile...oh well just finish the darn thing perhaps I can run a sub 7 last mile. I went up a long hill feeling fairly strong and hit 2.5 in 18:03. That's when I finally kicked it in gear some. Every minute I raised the pace a little higher and hit 3 miles flying down a hill in 21:17. I ran the last 0.106 mile in 34 seconds for a time of 21:51.

A little dissapointed but realize I can run that alot faster. I was staying in my comfort zone and had just woken up 20 minutes ago. I will take it...If I had tapered or took a day off I know sub 21 is doable.

My 1/2 mile splits

3:29
3:37
3:37
3:36
3:44
3:14
(0:34) last 0.106

[This message has been edited by MichiganFlyer (edited Aug-04-2006).]

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posted Aug-04-2006 08:59 AM            

I am racing a fast/flat 5K this weekend. My plan is start out at 6:30 pace and speed up each mile.

In July, I ran 27 of the 31 days - 137.8 total miles.

Key workouts (mostly over hilly roads-except the race and one track workout):

Long runs: 10 (10:40 pace), 8 (10:23 pace), and 10 (10:19 pace).

Tempo runs: 4 (7:08 pace *actually a race on fast course), 4 (7:15 pace), and 4 (7:24 pace).

Speed work: half mile (recovery)
July 12 four half milers on road: 3:05 (2:00); 3:18 (2:00); 3:07 (2:00); 3:14
July 19 five half milers on track: 3:06 (2:19); 3:16 (2:32); 3:16 (2:45); 3:16 (3:01); 3:13
July 26 six half milers on road: 3:10 (2:10); 3:03 (2:03); 3:27 (2:25); 3:16 (2:06); 3:10 (2:53); 3:09

Cross training: weekly tennis and weekly commute on bike to work (11.9 miles one way)

Weight improved - average of recorded weights in June was 165.45; July 163.93. I weighed 161 this morning. I am 5'11.

My prediction: either sub 20 or blow up and finish well above 20 minutes (22+?). Unfortunately, I think the latter is more likely. I am ok with that. If I ran a “smart” race, I would start out around 6:45 to 7:00 minutes per mile, and might have a chance to get 20:50 to 21:10 or so. After this race I will not give a sub 20 another shot until next spring. Give me a chance to improve my endurance, which I think it my tempo, racing, and long run paces indicate I need to do.

good running all

quote:

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Originally posted by MaineRunner2001:
I am one month away from my 2006 goal 5K (August 5).

In June I ran 29 of the 30 days - 128 total miles.
Key work outs:
long runs: 10 (9:43 pace), 8 (9:45 pace), and 7 (9:56 pace) - one week no long run due to a cutback week.
tempo runs: 4 (7:37 pace), 4 (7:14 pace), and 5 (7:13 pace *actually a race) - one week no tempo run due to a cutback week.
speed work: 1x880@3:07, 2X880@3:16 (2:15 recovery), 3X880@3:13 (2:30 recovery) - one week no speed work due to a cutback week.

Weight improved - started around 167 now at 162 - I'm 5'11"

Plan for July:
Continue long runs - alternate a ten and an eight miler each week.
Continue tempo runs - four miles each week over hilly roads. One of the four milers will be a very flat four mile road race.
Continue speed work - add one more hard half miler each week - 4X880@3:13;2:30, 5X880@3:13;2:30, and then 6X880@3:13;2:30.

Next cutback week will be week of goal 5K.

I would like to dip below 160 pounds.

A sub 21 minute 5K is a more realistic goal. However, I'm going to give sub 20 a shot. If I blow up so be it.

good luck everyone.

Profile

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posted Aug-04-2006 11:55 AM            

It is quite interesting. My 5k all time record is 20:30 and I don't really think about breaking that record. I am putting all my focus on breaking 20 or burn out trying!

Maybe we should not try to overdo it and just run our best race possible. I mean what is your best 5k time? If you are along way from 20 maybe you should just try for a PR.

I know coming out of the starting gate at a breakneck pace makes a great story line but you will more than likely regret it later. Practice your suicide missions in practice before attempting them in a race...just my opinion.

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posted Aug-04-2006 12:21 PM            

Based on your time in your 4 mile tempo/ race run at 7:08 pace on a flat course a sub 20 might be tough. Mcmillian calculator would give you a 5k time of 21:49. Your weight loss is good and you might see a 30 second improvement from that but you are still in the 21: area.

MichiganFlyer: Really a 6:30 pace is not to bad of a starting pace if your going to actually accomplish a sub 20.

I was very suprised how difficult it was to get from 21 to sub 20. Maine runner I think you might need to up your mileage even more.

Good Luck...

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posted Aug-04-2006 12:52 PM            

My 5K PR is 20:04 set on a fast course in April 2005. Here are my 5K race times since I started running in 2001: 24:54, 21:59, 22:35, 22:47, 21:33, 22:45, 21:30, 20:18, 22:14, 21:02, 20:06, 21:27, 21:40, 21:46, 20:04, and 21:17.

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posted Aug-04-2006 01:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by spkoest:
Maine runner I think you might need to up your mileage even more.

Good Luck...

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I agree. My wife won't let me though - she misses me too much Nice problem to have I guess.

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posted Aug-04-2006 01:24 PM            

I've gotten my 5k down to 20:17. I think the mileage definitely helps with any race. These 5k's seem so short when compared to the long mileages. I'm hoping to break 40 for 10k in mid Sept, so hopefully that will include a sub-20 5k. If not I think I'll run a 5k in early Oct before my marathon in November. I have a 5-mile race on Monday that I would like to go at least sub 33:20 (sub 33:00 would be nice), which almost is equal to a sub 20 5k.

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posted Aug-04-2006 01:30 PM            

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posted Aug-04-2006 01:54 PM            

The June five mile (7:13 pace) and July four mile (7:08 pace) races were done in very hot/humid conditions. Especially the 4 miler. The forecast for this weekend's 5K is warm, but no humidity.

I trained through the five mile and four mile races. I ran a long run (8 or 10 miles) and an interval workout (1.5 or 2 total miles) during the race week. Total weekly miles were a little over 33 each week. I also road a bike to work (11.9 miles one way) at some point during each race week. The four mile race was actually the day after I road the bike. I also ran when I road the bike - it did not replace a running day. I have rested/tapered this week (cut miles, no long run, no intervals, and no bike). This is big for me. My best race performances come on aggressive tapers.

Hills - I live at the bottom of a 3/4 mile hill. I run up it just about every day. There are two other huge hills (1/4 to 1/2 mile) I run up everyday. The race is very flat and probably loses elevation.

Tempo runs - even though the paces are on the slow side, they are over hills. The last mile is mostly down hill, and I have been able to run sub 7 minute miles each time. This is after a mostly up hill mile, where I have been able to run 7:30 or better. Same with races - last mile always sub 7 minutes.

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posted Aug-04-2006 02:32 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by paulmitch:
Official time of my 5K 2010 net time 19.59 hot heat it was so packed in the beginning, and since I was 10 seconds away from the start line (way to many slow people who couldn't run a 6:15 mile if there life depended on it). This is a sub 20 5K regardless of what people might say.

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Good enough for me paulmitch. You'll probably take another 20 seconds off the next time you catch a nice, cool day.

Congratulations.

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posted Aug-04-2006 03:37 PM            

Well if your PR is 20:04 and you have that many 5ks under your belt I think you know what you are doing.

I would like to run a sub 20 5k on October 1st. At the runnersworld website they gave me a schedule for 8 week training for a 5k. I am going to try and follow this structured plan. I haven't done much speedwork the past 2 years of running.

Basically this is what I will attempt the next 8 weeks. The only thing standing between me and 19:59 is myself. Can I do most of this program?

Sunday LONG RUN 10-12 miles (8:25 pace)
Monday REST
Tuesday 6-7 miles EASY (8:25 pace)
Wed 5-6 miles EASY (8:25 pace)

Thursday rotating every week between SPEEDWORK (4 X800 in 3:08 or 3 X1600 in 6:38)
and TEMPO RUN...4 or 5 miles at 7:05 pace in middle of 6-7 mile run.

Friday 5-6 miles EASY (8:25 pace)
Saturday REST

Thats pretty much it...IN my life the farthest I have run is 10 miles (2 or 3 times) so I need to lengthen this out to 12. It will be nice to run the easy runs so slowly...I might have to wake up a little earlier to accomplish these though...Can I do it? In my opinion the speedwork is going to stick it to me. I look forward to the tempo runs since I will be doing so much SLOW stuff. 7:05 miles times 5 seems a little fast but I know I can do that with all these slow miles building endurance. I have already run a 5 miler in 35:30 this month and wasn't pushing past my limits but was right on the edge.

8 weeks from Sunday is my race. I plan on going to the course several times to scout it and run it. I know this will help with my times as well.

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posted Aug-04-2006 04:32 PM               

It's worth remembering that, BTW: sometimes--sad but true--our fastest performances are set on short courses. So if you're serious about notching a legit PR, I'd hew to one of two rules:

1) REPEATABILITY. If you run 19:58 on one weekend and 19:53 on the following weekend, you've broken 20. If you run 20:12 on that second weekend, on the other hand, and if the courses and weather seem roughly comparable--well, maybe that first course was short. Go back and measure it on a bike. Talk to whomever measured it. Find out how they measured it. If a reputable running club or organization put on the race, I'd probably trust it, regardless of whether it was a certified course or not. On the other hand, I think we all know that charity 5K courses can be....generous.

2) CERTIFICATION. Find a certified course to peak for. Break 20 on that and you'll know you've really done it.

I once ran 33:28 in a 10K, but all my other times were around 36:00. That race got an asterisk in my race log, and I don't talk about it much.

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posted Aug-05-2006 03:43 PM               

I ran 19:38 (6:33 pace) for 6th OA and first masters male. That's ten seconds slower than two years ago, but it was 73 (according to my journal) that year, and this year is was 80 and 70% humidity.

Since didn't taper, except for two recovery days instead of one, I'm satisfied with the result.

The race was curious. Last time I went out in a 6:37 first mile. This time, listening to my heart (I didn't wear a HR monitor), I went out in 6:42. My Garmin read exactly 1.00, as it did for the final mile, a repeat of Mile 1 on the o/b course.

Second mile I either sped up slightly or slowed slightly, depending on whether you believe the course or my Garmin, which read 1.04 miles for Mile #2, which I covered in 6:51 but which translates, if it really only was a mile, to a 6:35.

I haven't done any speedwork whatever--almost no work at speeds above my LT, in fact--so I didn't want to carry an anaerobic load until late in the game.

The third mile was an unexpected gift. I pushed somewhat in the first half of it, and as I passed the half-mile-to-go point a bunch of small-town Mississippi guys were standing around and one said, "There's a few guys up ahead now, you better double-clutch."

That got to me. I was slightly ahead of a local friend/competitor at that point, we were both pushing, and I just took off. Boom! Ran that final mile in 6:05. Hurt a bit, but held form with no trouble, like I'd been running intervals for a month.

So I'm happy. I still don't know whether I slowed or speeded up in that middle mile, but I felt--well, beastly in that final half mile. I usually run negative splits but have never negatized more radically than this. In retrospect, I was probably running at something more like 10K pace in those first two miles--over threshold, but not quite to V02 max. Last mile was maxed out.

Cheers, all.

[This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Aug-05-2006).]

[This message has been edited by KudzuRunner (edited Aug-05-2006).]

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posted Aug-05-2006 08:02 PM            

The race I did today was measured by one GPS toting runner as 3.19 miles. The race director stated the course was long. It was not the same course as previous years. A bridge is under repair, and the course had to be changed to avoid it. Next year it will go back to the original course.

My time was 21:35; 6:45 pace on the 3.19 course. I would describe the new course as “flat” and not “easy.” To me “easy” means mostly down hill.

That is one thing I struggle with - course toughness. I am pretty sure the course I've run 21:33, 20:18, 20:06, and then 20:04 is at least 3.1 miles, however, the first 1/2 mile is down hill, and then the rest of it is flat – very easy. I’m not sure if I can state I am a sub 20 minute 5K runner if I only do it on that one course.

edit to add this:
Course I ran today:
http://www.runningmap.com?id=3238

Course the race usually follows:
http://www.runningmap.com?id=3239

lots of powerful tools on the internet...

[This message has been edited by MaineRunner2001 (edited Aug-05-2006).]

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