posted Jun-16-2006 02:04 PM               

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posted Jun-19-2006 07:36 AM               

It just gets confusing, because people suggest so many different strategies of doing it! It's amazing how everyone's body works so differently.

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posted Jun-19-2006 02:17 PM            

I'm wondering did you run Track and CC in High school? did you hit 20's then?

any one been running for just a few years and still got to 20's?

I did, run in High school and my best times were low 21's

I took a 17 year break and now I'm back to low 22's high 21's I'd Like to see 20's but wonder if its even possible considering I didn't do it 17 years ago and I'm 32 now

I guess what I'm looking for is any one out here only been running for a little bit and still got to 20's?????

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posted Jun-19-2006 05:24 PM               

You know me

I never ran in school (unless I had to). I did run x-country my freshman year, but I was on the team chasing a girl and not really interested in the running part (once I got the girl, I stopped showing up at practice!). I can't recall any of my times, but I'd guess they weren't good, since I usually came in towards the back of the pack.

I went sub-20 after about 10 months of running starting as a 36 year old fat-ish couch potato.

IMO, you can definitely get under 20 minutes. You're in the 21s now. I platued there for a couple of months for some reason last fall, but a winter of consistant 40mpw and some judicious interval workouts got me over the hump.

I'd guess you'll be there within a year if you stick with it. You don't have the benefit of losing pounds of fat to get faster, like I did, so it might take you just a bit longer .

Just keep up the volume, run within yourself, and be patient m- you'll get there. You're young, for cryin' out loud!

PS - if you want some more specific advice, post an outline of your current training and you'll get some. IIRC, you're in racing mode right now. Have fun with that, but don't be discouraged if the times stall - you can't really race indefinitely, and when the times stall, IMO, it's time to get back to building more base or changing up the training somehow (or, just a rest period - racing is stressful!).

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[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Jun-19-2006).]

[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Jun-19-2006).]

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posted Jun-19-2006 06:51 PM            

I ran track in HS but played volleyball instead of XC ... I just turned 38 and started running again 18 years after graduating ... did a couple races, hurt my knee, and then broke my foot and had almost a year off ... I started back to running last fall as soon as doctor okayed it and did 15 miles or so per week for most of the fall and winter ... built up to 30 MPW by April and added some track workouts ... in May I did my only 5K and my goal was to break 21 minutes before year's end ... I did 20:41 my first time out ... I think I'll break 20:00 this year ... I'm doing my second 5k this coming weekend but am coming off a strained hamstring and not sure if this will be my sub- 20:00 race but maybe!? ;-)

Yes ... I think it's possible for an older person with the right training to beat times they did not attain when they were younger ... I'm banking on it!!!

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posted Jun-19-2006 06:59 PM            

http://teamswansusa.8k.com/5k%20tips.htm

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posted Jun-20-2006 02:18 AM            

I didn't wear a watch, so I was running entirely by feel with no idea about my splits. I was in between 2 guys who appeared to be much more experienced runners during the race. In the last mile I passed the guy who I'd been following, while the guy tracking me the whole race beat me by 2 seconds.

I've only done a minimal amount of speedwork, but I have done a fair number of solo 22 to 23 minute 5k tempo training runs.

I'm keeping my eye out for a good race to jump into in the near future, and I'll be trying to squeeze in some hills and track sessions in the meantime. Congrats to all of you who've already cracked the nut this year, and good luck to everyone else who's getting closer.

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posted Jun-20-2006 12:37 PM            

1MileRunner,

I also believe that you have a chance at the under 20 club. You are still young enough. As BrookTrout said, post more details on your training. With consistent mpw and some sort of speedwork (if you aren't doing this already), you still should see improvement.

As far as background, here is mine.

High School - ran track and XC every year
PR 1 mile 4:50
3 mile 17:40

Post College - early 30's
Ran fairly seriously 50-70 mpw
PR - 1 mile 4:33
5K 16:39

Didn't train seriously for the last 6-8 years, just the occasional race
5K - mainly in the upper 21's

This year - decided to try one last attempt at a (semi) serious training (at age 42)
consistent 30-40 mpw with speedwork

Took 3 attempts at breaking 20
1 - 20:50
2 - 21:20

Then last weekend, everything came together and I ran 19:49

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posted Jun-20-2006 04:10 PM            

Monday, Off

Tuesday 10 Miles 1:24:19 (8:25/mile did one fast mile on around mile 6 did it in 7:08 yeah I know that may not be good

Wednesday 8 Miles 1:07:58 (8:23/mile)

Thursday, 8 Miles 1:08:27 (8:27/mile)

Friday 8 Miles 1:08:45 (8:29/mile)

Saturday, 6 miles I normally do 3 1 mile repeats around 7:00 to 7:13, I wont do these during race week and I have been running 5K's every 2 weeks

Sunday OFF

as of now, (I'm thinking) I should stay at 40 mpw, so I can work on some speed work, and continue to race every 2 weeks, then this winter I would like to hit 60mpw or over

I'm also thinking the first thing I'm going to be told is to slow down (but my runs do feel comfortable)

Today I did a 6 mile run and I couldn't believe how simple that felt first mile was 7:43..the full run was 48:21 (8:03/mile) and I felt great

mcmillan says my long run should be 8:36 to 9:36 I'm doing it at (8:25/mile but thats not to far off.

a normal comfortable run for me is about 7:30 to 7:44/mile (I'd like to see that lower, my warm up and cool down is 8:00

and thats me.......so tell me what am I doing that doesn't sound good, or what more should I be doing? let me have it!!!!

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posted Jun-20-2006 04:44 PM               

Actually, you're training looks pretty solid to me . You're still a new runner, so almost any running that you do will serve to benefit, and you're covering most of your bases with a long run and some long intervals (I might advise shorter intervals, or alternating shorter intervals with a 3 mile tempo run, but that'd just be nit-picking).

40mpw is a good volume, and you've just arrived there. You'll get faster on that volume, alone. If I were you, I'd just keep at that volume for the summer, run your races, and see what happens come fall.

It's a good sign that your recent run felt good with a brisk first mile. For me, the first sign that the increased volume was working, was running at what felt like an easy pace, yet observing my splits coming in with sevens in front instead of eights.

As long as the times keep coming down, I'd just keep plugging away with what your doing right now. Another possible nit-pick - you might not want to race so often. Every two weeks is tough, if you're going at true race effort for every one of them. Not saying you need to take months off like I do, but maybe space them out to, say, one every month or three weeks or something.

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posted Jun-20-2006 05:31 PM            

I was going to respond, but then read Brook Trout's comment. I second everything he said. Try some shorter intervals (400's, 800's) , to get used to running faster, then throw in a 3-4 mile tempo run. It will probably just take some consistency (several 40 mpw's in a row), if you haven't done so already. I'm sure you should be able to run much faster.

FYI - my daily run avg pace is `8:30 - 8:45, but my speedwork is quicker ( 3 x 1 mile in 6:30). One thing you might want to do is slow down a little on the daily run, and try to "speed up" the speed work.

Good Luck

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posted Jun-20-2006 06:52 PM            

Thanks for sharing your back grounds it gives me hope to see that you guys have hit 20's and under with out years and years of experience and a professional track and CC back ground.

and brook trout, to see what you have mastered in just a short time gives me a LOT of hope, thanks again for all the help you have gave me.

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posted Jun-20-2006 09:26 PM               

My hope is to break the 20 min mark. I have another 5k scheduled for 7/22 on a faster course. If I miss the mark this time I'll try again in July.

BTW, I've done absolutely no speed work this time. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

[This message has been edited by corland14 (edited Jun-20-2006).]

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posted Jun-21-2006 06:25 AM            

My 4th will be This Saturday and I know I wont be any place near the 20 mark, now I hope to stay in the 21's and get low 21's

great job

but you know back in high school when I first started the CC team my coach never had us run over 6 miles and that was only every few weeks our longest run was like 4 miles he didn't work us that much, I think most of my CC races were 26 to 24 when I did reach 21 I was the one that got the most improved award.
this last winter I racked up the miles (20 to 30 miles per week) and my first race was in the 22 work does pay off

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posted Jun-21-2006 05:56 PM            

You're running a 5k in my hometown in July! I literally grew up in Kindleberger park, it is 1 block from our old house. I'd love to get back there and run that race someday.

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posted Jun-21-2006 06:36 PM               

I tried to make it as a walk-on XC guy my senior year in college and wasn't nearly good enough. Kept running and within a few post-collegiate years (by the age of 25) had run the following times:

5K: 17:27
5 mile: 28:00
10K: 35:49
10 mile: 59:35
marathon: 2:53:30

I quit training and racing in 1984 and, although I kept jogging (3-4 times a week, 3-4 miles, easy), I didn't run seriously, or race at all, until April 2003. My first 10K back was 47:10. My second 10K was 48:04. A week later I ran my first 5K in 22:00. That seemed like a reasonable baseline.

After several years of pretty dedicated training (40 mpw all year long, give or take a little), I've lowered my times as follows:

5K: 19:41 (I also have a 19:30 but I suspect a short course)
10K: 40:48.

Each season, as I've aged from 46 to 48, I've pared some time away from my old-guy PRs. I see the writing on the wall--no return to actual former time-ranges--but the verdict is still out on exactly how much time I can still scrape off those numbers. Obviously I'd love to hit or break 19:00 and 40:00. Those are good round numbers to guide my training.

Interestingly, as I get stronger over these return-to-running years, the races don't hurt quite as much. I think that's because I've learned the art of proper pacing. It's also because I've learned to push myself hard at appropriate moments in training, so that race-pace on race-day doesn't come as a shock. In fact, since I'm tapered and adrenalized and don't go out too fast, it comes as a positive relief: show time, folks! The wait is over. Show me whatch got.

The advice from other quarters about easing up slightly on your easy days and running your intervals a bit faster is excellent. Also, if you're running six miles, it's always a good idea to run the first mile--or at bare minimum the first half mile--pretty easy, without pushing at all, to give all systems a chance to come up to speed. If you're running a ten-miler, think of the first five miles as the warmup and the last five miles as the push. Think progression run, in other words. If you're in a summer base-training phase, actually, it's good sometimes just to go out and run easy/steady with no push for the entire 10 miles, letting the work be the simple fact of putting in the miles. It's taken me a couple of years to understand this principle, in my bones, but it's finally sinking in.

Of course sometimes it's fun to just go out on a training day and hit it hard, and have fun. Sometimes we get so rational about training that we forget about the primal side. Running is nothing if not primal--or can be--and it's good to honor that side of the sport, too.

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posted Jun-22-2006 08:49 AM            

what day will you be here then?

http://www.greatlakeschampionchip.com/register.htm

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posted Jun-22-2006 08:57 AM               

...and Kudzu, I loved your post, esp. the last paragraph. You have a way with words - I'm guessing you're a writer?

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posted Jun-22-2006 10:36 AM            

but how slow?... now I'm afraid,,,, if I do slow down,,,, it will be to slow

My last 5K I got my best time but my first mile was 6:19 I didn't feel I was going that fast, I haven't ran a mile that fast in 17 years

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posted Jun-22-2006 10:43 AM               

I was telling you to slow down when you were doing 1 mile time trails every day

I think you're fine, for now - running easy, by feel - but not going all out every day. Pace varies from day to day, as you know. As long as it's easy, I wouldn't get hung up on the time, HR, etc.

That 6:19 mile1 was adrenaline. You're lucky you didn't bury yourself! I remember, my fist race this spring (after not racing all winter), I went out with a pacer for the first mile (an accomplished local masters female, who usually runs in the high 19s) in my first attempt to go sub-20.

All through the first mile, I was getting anxious, thinking that we were going way too slow - that I'd never be able to get the 20 at the pace we were running at... I considered just passing her several times, but stuck with it.

We hit the first mile at 5:58 . I imploded about a 1/2 mile later when reality caught up with me (and ended up not meeting the sub-20 on that attempt).

It's amazing what adrenaline can do!

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posted Jun-22-2006 02:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1milerunner:
well then duckgeek you need to get your butt back here now and run the Parchment Kindleberger (this July) and here is your ONLINE REGISTRATION

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Well, there's the little problem of 2,500 miles to cover, and the 2 week old baby at home....

I do usually go back once a year in May for a golf tourney in Plainwell that is named after my Dad. Other than that, I try to get my relatives to come out HERE for a visit! No humidity and no mosquitos. I will tell my brother about it though. His 11 year old boy has been running 6:10 miles recently, so maybe he can bring him over from Detroit to visit Nana and run that race.

A quick anecdote about talent and youth: This same brother played baseball in HS during the spring seasons, so he never ran track. He made an off-the-cuff misogynist comment about female distance runners to some girls on the track team. He bet them a six pack of beer that he could beat the best girls' mile time posted in the G-K (greater Kalamazoo) that spring (1981). A girl ran 5:15, so he trained for a week and ended up running a 5:12, but he just about passed out at the end! Despite winning the bet, he learned his lesson.

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posted Jun-22-2006 04:47 PM            

and wow 5:58 first mile. Its strange how you really don't feel your running that fast, when I got to the mile marker of that 6:19 I was a little worried I would be around 7:30 it just felt that slow.

duckgeek Congratulations on the new baby! and yes I can see that being a little problem but maybe some day, I'm really looking forward to that race, last years race results showed it being a small one, I like those.

I have another one this Saturday, all I know about this one is, for a 10K and a 5K last year out of those 2 races only about 100 people showed, this one is not chip timed, its in Centreville we run in to the Covered Bridge I'm going in the Moring to get a "wicking tank top" the Humidity is killing me!!!

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posted Jun-23-2006 05:06 PM               

as part of my on-going quest to get my fat arse to Boston, I want to run a sub 20 5K

Four years of running, 5 marathons, 9 halfs, six 10Ks, and a few other odd distances, but I've never run a 5K race!

I'm going to do one on July 4th - I'll keep you posted...

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posted Jun-24-2006 11:18 AM               

Unofficial time was 21:15, a new PR. Splits were something like 6:40, 7:00, 6:50, :45. I accidentally reset my watch before I got home. I was holding out hope for a sub 21, and thinking that maybe on my best day I might flirt with 20. Yikes was that off. I will break 21 in July when I race my home town 5k. Loads of friends and family there for motivation + a flat, straight course. Who knows, maybe with one under the belt I'll flirt with 20 then?

I doubled back today and paced a friend to a new PR for him in the 10k (about 54 mins). He was very happy with that and I got all of my running in for the day. All in all a good day.

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posted Jun-24-2006 03:20 PM            

I was wondering what my 5k time would be. I run a 5:45 mile, and I seem to be better as the distance gets higher. For ex., I run a 2:45 half mile, and a 17.5 100 meters. Maybe its just me, but those times seem a little slow for a 5:45 mile. I definatly have slow twitch muscles! (to put it nicely ) Calculators have never worked well for me, so I was wondering what your mile times and 5k times are. Thank you!

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