posted Apr-20-2007 10:58 AM            

I have a race Sunday at 1pm in East Lansing, Mich.
I feel terrific. I have run 22 miles this week in 5 days...tapering towards the end of this week running 3-3.5 miles the last couple days.

I will probably run about 3 tonight and 1 tomorrow for a 26 mile week. Temps Sunday probably around 70 by racetime. Not bad....just concerned about the wind. Last I saw the weather said S at 13mph. That might cost me 20-30 seconds. Im ready to go though. Will give you a race report on Monday.

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posted Apr-21-2007 01:22 PM               

Orion

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posted Apr-22-2007 01:29 PM            

I am racing this certified, 5K course on May 13: http://www.usatf.org/routes/view.asp?rID=17400. I think it’s elevation profile shows it is a little tougher than the one I did Saturday (April 21), but is fast. I have been running since 2001. I don’t know if I can improve by 25 seconds, but I’m going to keep trying.

I’ve been running four, 35 mile weeks followed by one, 25 mile cut back week. I have been doing one 10 mile long run and a four mile tempo run during each of the 35 mile weeks. The rest of the miles are easy. Starting this week, I’m going to add a weekly critical velocity rep workout as described to me by tchuck a few posts back.

Good running all.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tchuck:
Mainerunner,

Rather than 2 tempos per week, add in some critical velocity reps or about 10K pace for you. Do like 3 progressing to 5-6 X 1K w/ 2 min progressing to 1 min recoveries. These will help your racing at all distances while still staying aerobic!

Now you could rotate weeks of tempo or threshold 1 mile intervals and CV reps the next. Just a suggestion.

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posted Apr-22-2007 01:57 PM               

These will help you. Generally, a race would take place of a CV work out or do a 3 X 1K on Tues/Wed before race. Wait until later in week since you raced this weekend. Other suggestion would be to do your CV reps starting with 4 X 1K and gradually progressing to 6 X 1K in weeks with less rest. Also, after CV reps, jog 3-4 min and do 4 X 200M quick (800M pace) w/ 200-300M easy jog recoveries between. This will sharpen you up in 4-5 weeks. I think for you, your CV rep pace is around 6:50 pace. But don't kill yourself getting to this pace. Focus on effort because some days it may be windy, or it is hot, or you feel run down. Listen to your body. Progress gradually.

Also, throw in some slower tempo work (7:30 pace) within your long run
i.e. rotate miles or last 3-4 miles do at 7:30 on more tired legs.

These work outs will make you stronger and help hold stronger pace throughout race. By June you will be very strong and will break 20 min. no problem. Maybe even May 13th.

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Todd

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posted Apr-23-2007 07:05 AM            

Time was dissapointing especially since I was so close to sub 21 and missed it. But I learned alot. Had a friend videotape me at start, 1mile, 2 mile and finish and it was fun to see afterwards.

Temp was 75 and wind about 15 mph. Heat was more a factor than wind. I ran about 0.7 miles warmup well before the race.

Mile splits 6:47, 6:54, 6:45. I estimate a 36 second last tenth.

Biggest problem was there was no CHIP mat at the start and that cost me 7 or 8 seconds as I didnt start at the front of this huge field. I mistakeny thought the chip would start when I crossed the starting line but there was no mat there. Then I had to weave through tons of slow runners the 1st half mile. That probably cost me another 6-10 seconds.

I passed 8 people in the last 1/2 mile. It was loads of fun. I passed 4 people in the last 500 feet. All on film I think that helped kick me in to make it look good.

I hit one goal finishing 5th or better in my age group. That earns me 1 point in the playmakers age group championship. 1st place is 10 points, 2nd is 7 pts..3rd is 5 pts. etc.

Still 62 seconds away but I was 27 seconds faster than my race a couple weeks ago which timed in at 21:29. I am learning from running outside after 90% of runs on treadmill.

I will get a nice race report up soon.

OK here is my Race Report.

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/010000.shtml

[This message has been edited by MichiganFlyer (edited Apr-23-2007).]

[This message has been edited by MichiganFlyer (edited Apr-23-2007).]

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posted Apr-23-2007 09:05 AM            

10 mile long run with the last 3 to 4 miles @ 7:30 pace (the other miles between 9 and 10 minute pace). (Sunday)

4 mile tempo run @ 7:10 to 7:15 pace. (Tuesday)

build up to 6 X 1K @ 4:15 with 1:00 recovery followed by 3 to 4 minutes easy then 4 X 200 @ 40 seconds with full recovery. (Thursday)

the remaining miles easy (~9:00 minute pace)

thanks

quote:

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Originally posted by Tchuck:
Maine,

These will help you. Generally, a race would take place of a CV work out or do a 3 X 1K on Tues/Wed before race. Wait until later in week since you raced this weekend. Other suggestion would be to do your CV reps starting with 4 X 1K and gradually progressing to 6 X 1K in weeks with less rest. Also, after CV reps, jog 3-4 min and do 4 X 200M quick (800M pace) w/ 200-300M easy jog recoveries between. This will sharpen you up in 4-5 weeks. I think for you, your CV rep pace is around 6:50 pace. But don't kill yourself getting to this pace. Focus on effort because some days it may be windy, or it is hot, or you feel run down. Listen to your body. Progress gradually.

Also, throw in some slower tempo work (7:30 pace) within your long run
i.e. rotate miles or last 3-4 miles do at 7:30 on more tired legs.

These work outs will make you stronger and help hold stronger pace throughout race. By June you will be very strong and will break 20 min. no problem. Maybe even May 13th.

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posted Apr-23-2007 09:36 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by MaineRunner2001:
tchuck, just to be clear, are you suggesting my 35 mile weeks be made up with the following:

10 mile long run with the last 3 to 4 miles @ 7:30 pace (the other miles between 9 and 10 minute pace). (Sunday)

4 mile tempo run @ 7:10 to 7:15 pace. (Tuesday)

build up to 6 X 1K @ 4:15 with 1:00 recovery followed by 3 to 4 minutes easy then 4 X 200 @ 40 seconds with full recovery. (Thursday)

the remaining miles easy (~9:00 minute pace)

thanks

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The above is possible in time, but if you are doing regular racing, it will be too much intensity. Right now on non race weeks, you probably should either do the fast finish long run at slower tempo or the 4 mile faster tempo. And then CV work out later in week.

I think for you your long runs can be run at 8:30 - 8:45 pace. Based on a 19:45 5K time, Tinman calculated my normal EZ training pace (including long runs) at 8:15 pace and my slow pace as 8:45 pace and recovery pace whatever it needs to be.

A little more pace on your normal training runs will help a bit also get you stronger and faster. But I hesitate to advice you to do all of this at once. Go by feel. Run what feels like the right pace for you.

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Todd

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posted Apr-23-2007 10:14 AM            

I plan to race once per month until October (5/13 5K; 6/24 5 Miler; 7/21 4 Miler; 8/4 5K; 9/16 10K; and 10/7 HM). My plan is to train through the May to September races, and taper for the October half marathon. After the May 5K, I was going to gradually build my long run up to 16 miles, preparing for the October half marathon, using the races to help set a goal HM time.

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posted Apr-23-2007 11:34 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
I have come to the conclusion that 20:00 is very hard to break unless you are young and fit. Alot of things will have to come together to beat this mark. You probably should know your course like the back of your hand. It has to be a nice flat fast course as well. And you are going to have to go out with confidence from the start.

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I haven't been posting here for some time, mostly because I have been concentrating on my marathon training. With Boston behind me I have a few 5K's 10K's and a 5 miler that I am running in the next few months. I have a 5K in particular on May 6th that I really want to do well in but I just don't know how ready I am for anything close to a sub 20. We'll soon see, and the 5 miler on May 27th is another one that I really want to do well in as well.

Flyer, I don't think too many people will disagree that running a sub 20:00 is hard to do (save for those gifted elite runners). However I don't necessarily agree that age has a lot to do with it. My first sub 20 5K came last summer at the young age of 50 on a course I had never run before. This course is listed as flat and fast, and it is except for after about a quarter mile from the start you have a pretty good hill that you run up and then turn and run down. I think that my confidence level going into that particular race played a huge role in my running a sub 20 and my first ever 1st place AG award at that distance. I think physical and mental fitness are huge, add in a commitment to training, and a certain level of natural ability and it is attainable even for us older guys and gals. And we all have to realize that for a variety of reasons not everyone is capable of running a sub 20 5K.

I'll post how I do in my upcoming races, I sure would love to be able to consistently run sub 20.

Good luck to everyone else in their quest.

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posted Apr-23-2007 12:11 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bobscamman:
Good luck to everyone else in their quest.

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Bob, I was just checking out your profile. My mother is originally from York Beach and my family still gathers at Short Sands at least once a year. Are there any races around that area around August? I may not be up there this year but I've thought about it the last two years I've come up and had no idea where to look.

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posted Apr-23-2007 12:24 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by angrek:
Bob, I was just checking out your profile. My mother is originally from York Beach and my family still gathers at Short Sands at least once a year. Are there any races around that area around August? I may not be up there this year but I've thought about it the last two years I've come up and had no idea where to look.

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Angrek

Here is a link to the York Parks and Recreation Rod Race page:

http://parksandrec.yorkmaine.org/road%20races.html#York%20Days%20Race

If the link doesn't work just cut and paste it into your web browser.

The road race that is run at the end of July is really a good one and is run in conjunction with the annual York Days celebration which I am sure you have probably attended at least once and if not I am sure someone in your family is familiar with it. It is a week long celebration with fireworks and all kinds of other fun things going on.

I have worked for the York Police Department for 29 years so who knows maybe I have heard of your mother. Either way if you are ever up here stop by the station and look me up. It’s always nice to meet fellow Cool Runners!

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posted Apr-23-2007 02:18 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by bobscamman:
I have worked for the York Police Department for 29 years so who knows maybe I have heard of your mother.

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Wouldn't that be something. Her maiden name was Jill Elms. She would be about 9 years your senior. If I remember correctly I think she used to wait tables at the Ocean House growing up. She was and still is great friends with Betsy Camp who's father Ellis (of Ellis park there in short sands) owned the Ocean House until a few years ago. (if my memory is serving me correctly) I'm pretty sure she lived there all the way through high school and my grandfather William (Bill or Pete) Elms was very well known in the Police and Fire departments all around that area and up around Brunswick where they later moved. (way back when) I want to say he was a fire chief but I'd have to ask to be sure.

quote:

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Originally posted by bobscamman:
Either way if you are ever up here stop by the station and look me up. It’s always nice to meet fellow Cool Runners!

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Will do! And thank you kindly for the race link! York is one of my favorite places to run. It is just absolutely gorgeous.

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posted Apr-23-2007 04:55 PM            

MaineRunner, it sounds like you ran a great race and you got a solid result from it. Your training looks good and I only expect you'll speed up from here on out.

Michigan, you're definitely in sub-21 shape right now, and would have broken it simply by lining up closer to the starting line, by the sounds of it. You paced it nicely, though, and got points in the series. Congrats!

I'm back from Costa Rica and my next try at the 5k distance is tomorrow night. Hopefully it won't be as windy as last time. I looked at the results from last week's race and nearly everyone finished at least a minute faster than the week before (when I ran 21:08). That makes me feel pretty good.

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posted Apr-24-2007 07:54 PM               

To supplement TChuck's advice, which is good, your 20:24 5k race perforamance yields the following paces: 8:56 to 8:26 (which is Slow to EZ) per mile. If you are tired or the weather is difficult, run slower. It is better to run slower than faster when doing daily mileage.

Your longer runs should be at the above listed pace, but if you finish fast, as TChuck suggests, then use 7:56 to 7:26 per mile; no faster!

CV pace for you is 4:14 per km, by the way.
Tinman Tempo Running Pace (what TChuck has called Slow Tempo Pace - a term I used for years but only recently called it TT pace) is 7:26 per mile, for now.

Don't run faster than your current fitness level! When your race times improve, run a bit faster in training. But, you don't have to if it makes your body rebel. Consistent training is most important of all training principles!

Take care,

Tinman
runfastcoach@gmail.com

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posted Apr-24-2007 10:13 PM            

I have a good look at the sub 20 with a race on Sunday. It is relatively flat with a one killer hill at the finish line. Wish me luck. In some respects getting back below 20:00 after a long time off is harder than breaking it the first time. Especially when I keep getting older and older and the kids just get bigger and bigger.

Good luck to everyone. See you at the races.

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posted Apr-25-2007 10:05 AM            

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posted Apr-25-2007 01:00 PM               

At your current performance level and mileage, 5 repeat 1ks is enough. When you reach sub 19 minutes, then do up to 6. Remember, you don't have to do that many. Training is training, not racing, so you should always finish a workout with plenty of energy left. It is the Consistency of the workouts done over the weeks that counts most. Your fitness will grow steadily and without setbacks, thereby!

Take care,

Tinman
runfastcoach@gmail.com

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posted Apr-25-2007 02:23 PM            

I have enjoyed reading your (and the other) posts in the mileage thread: http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum6/HTML/023473-19.shtml

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posted Apr-25-2007 02:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by MaineRunner2001:
Dakota, how did your 5K go?

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Cancelled! And I was happy about that, considering it was 39 degrees, raining steadily, and winds up to 50+ mph. They transferred my registration to the next race this coming Tuesday. Hopefully the weather will be better.

I still got out for an interval workout yesterday, though. I tried 4x1000 on 3:55 with 1:30 rest. Couldn't quite make it. I ran 3:58.8, 3:55.4, and 3:55.7 for the first three, but had to rest 2:00 before finishing the final one in 3:58.5. Maybe the weather slowed me down a bit?

Anyway, it hurt bad and it may have been my hardest workout this year. Perhaps a little too hard. Funny, because on Friday I ran 5x1000 with 1:30 rest with no problem. I came in between 3:57 - 3:59 on all intervals, and none felt as hard as yesterday. I didn't have to cheat by adding more rest, either.

Daniels recommends 3-4 minutes rest in this type of interval session, so maybe I should take that advice. I'm pretty sure I could hit 5x1000 on 3:55 with 3-minute recoveries (instead of 1:30).

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posted Apr-25-2007 08:04 PM               

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posted Apr-25-2007 08:43 PM               

I run 5k in34 minutes :lol:

(ive only been running 2 months)

I am running 20 mpw fairly comfortably and want a 26 min 5k within 6 weeks

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posted Apr-30-2007 09:42 AM               

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[This message has been edited by angrek (edited Apr-30-2007).]

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posted Apr-30-2007 10:14 AM            

A mere 4 seconds away! You don't have much work to break that barrier that very few ever reach.

I have a 5k on Friday evening. I ran it 2 years ago in 22:20. It starts down a steep hill so my mile time should be quite fast. It ends going up a steep hill 2 blocks so it will be interesting.

Temps should be in the mid 60s.

I ran a mile on the treadmill last Friday in 5:48 (1% grade to emulate outdoors). That was the highest speed the treadmill will go. It beat my previous PR by 1 second though so I will take it.

At mcmillans race calculator it says to run a 20:00 5k one would be running a 5:46 mile. I am right on the verge. I just need to gain confidence.

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posted Apr-30-2007 01:25 PM               

My first attempt comes this Sunday at a new race, I think I'll be traveling there this afternoon so that I can familiarize myself with the course.

Congratulations again on a great run.

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posted May-02-2007 12:11 PM            

I feel like it's within reach again. Ran 5K a few days ago in 20:40, despite fatigue and some other excuses. I feel like my training has me close to the mid 19's. Just curious as to what kind of workouts are being done by those of you close to breaking 20?

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