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Topic: Sub 20-Minute 5-K |
robp
Cool Runner |
 posted Dec-07-2005 03:21 PM
   
I ran an 18:43 at age 43. Two years of injury and a year of training soley for a marathon have brought my time back up. Last year I ran two identical 20:06's. I'd like to be back to low 19 and maybe back to the 18's by next summer.
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batfish
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-07-2005 03:27 PM
Good point about course selection, Jim. Most races will advertise that they are USATF certified. If they do NOT adverstise this fact, I'd steer clear.Sometimes, you can work backwords, using the Certified Course Search Tool at the usatf's web-site. Also, I would consider looking at the course that you're considering and ensuring that it's 'record eligable'. If you want to hit a specific time goal, I think you want to do it on a fair course. Just my opinion. Courses that are not listed as record eligable often have a net elevation loss, which would diminish the accomplishment, in my mind (we have a few 'fast 5Ks' around here, as well as a 'fast' mile (millenium mile) - I wouldn't want to run a PR on such a course. ------------------
Batfish Profile
The Newbie Wiki
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mbannon
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-07-2005 05:53 PM
Sticking to loop or out-and-back courses solves that problem.------------------
Running To My Future
Me and My Log
The Newbie Wiki
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Jim24315
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-07-2005 05:55 PM
batfish,I agree. The fairest ofl all is a loop course, which most shorter races are. However, it is not uncommon for a longer course, such as marathon, to still be difficult even with a drop. Boston is one that comes to mind. It loses 500-ft in elevation but nobody ever called it easy. Flat courses such as Chicago, Berlin, and London have much faster average times than Boston.
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KudzuRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-07-2005 07:49 PM
I'm the founder of the 40:00 10K thread, but I never did get there; 41:09 this past March was my best. I did, however, just crack 20:00 in 5K a few weeks ago, with a 19:55 at an accurate course in Memphis. 6:25 pace.I ran something like 6:23, 6:33, 6:19, with the last .1 @ 6:00 pace. A fine race on a cool day. I'll take it! Interestingly enough, I hadn't gotten in my usual 3-mile prerace warmup. I arrived too late for that. Only got in one mile, plus 4-5 strides. I averaged 50 MPW in July and 40+ mpw in Aug/Sept/Oct. Three weeks before the 5K, I ran a 10K as a workout in 44 and change--7:07 pace, as I remember. The following week I ran a terrible, flameout half marathon in 1:39 (very windy day w/sun). Two weeks later I popped the 5K, much to my amazement. Four days after the 5K I ran a 2.8 mile tempo workout at 7:07 pace (exactly 20 minutes) Last week I ran three interval miles in 6:33, 6:31, 6:25 with 2:00 jog between. I was surprised; it was hard but not that hard. I was definitely not quite at VO2max pace. This past Saturday, pointing towards a half marathon this coming weekend, I did 4 easy w/up, then 1.33 @ 7:00 pace, then 6 x 60-90 seconds hard--between 6:00 and 6:20 pace. On Monday I warmed up for about half an hour and then ran three half marathon pace miles in 7:00, 7:00, and 6:50 with 2:00 jogs between. Not hard at all. What I'm sketching, basically, is the training pace range you need to be working within in order to go out and crack the 20:00 nut. You've got to work the notch up to 30 second faster per mile than 5K pace and up to 30 seconds slower. It's not enough just to put in good mileage and a few progression runs. You've got to home in on actual 5K race pace--6:25 is a good number to shoot for--and find a way of acclimating yourself to it, bit by bit. That means running some 1200s, and even an occasional mile, at that pace. It means running some 800s/600s/400s at faster paces. 800s in 3:05 - 3:10 are a good start. I've done my share of them. Rather than the track, I like to measure out some intervals on a stretch of open black top and blast out some fast stuff. Or use a Garmin GPS. Set the thing for "lap pace," punch the "on" button, get up to cruising speed, then hit the "lap" button and fly for a while. I did this the other day, going by feel. Six road intervals felt just right; each of them ended up between 60 and 90 seconds, and my pace on all of them was that useful area between 6:00 and 6:20 pace. (My two-mile race pace is 6:09/mile). Hope this helps. 50 mpw isn't the secret, although it's not a bad idea during base training. But later you've got to spend time making friends with race pace and learning the subtle things about, for example, the difference between your 5K pace and 10K pace. What is just sustainable and what is not quite sustainable? How should you feel at the end of the first mile if you're on target? That's why interval miles are useful--you can't fake them--and why tempo runs are good. It's also why you've got to make friends with faster-than-race-pace in a disciplined way, rather than waiting for race day and improvising.
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OldXCguy
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-07-2005 08:25 PM
Sign me up for the sub-20 5K support group! I won't be racing another 5K until the spring, but being accountable to everyone should help keep me focused through my winter training. Many years ago, when I was YoungXCguy, I broke 16 minutes on three occasions. As recently as a few years ago, when I had just turned 50, I got down to 18:52. Since then, various aches and injuries have kept me from doing any better than the 20:08 I recorded last May, so sub-20 has become a worthy goal. At this point, I may be one of the slowest runners in the world for someone who trains as hard as I do. My mileage ranges from 40-70 mpw, with fartleks, tempo runs, and track workouts. I even manage to fit in doubles 2-3 days per week at the height of my training.
I do flexibility and strength training, functional exercises, core strengthening (including Pilates), and get regular massages.
So I'm hoping to stay healthy this winter, get in several months of solid training, and have another go at it in the spring.Good luck to everyone in their quest for a sub-20 5K!
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cam0103
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-07-2005 08:40 PM
I started this year running a 23:16 5k and my goal became to break 20 mins. My running club has a weekly course that measures 3.16 so I got a shot at 5k distance every week.
Since there was 17 weeks before we moved to our summer venue I decided to make week 17 my peak week.
My plan had two phases: Build my base; work my speed.
Since our course is mearsured I made sure that with .16 miles to go I ran all out. This let me know that no matter what I would finish in a given time (1 minute) from the 3 mile mark. This let me concentrate on running even miles.
I then picked a goal time of 12 seconds faster than the week before. Since I was new to running I knew that this should not be too hard to do with my mileage increasing to 25mpw.
NOTE: It took 6 weeks to lay a decent base...then the time started to come off according to my plan. I continuely ran with runners who were faster then me but who ran consistently and on April 28 I ran a 1943 for 3.16 well under 20!
I saw 19 as I did 20 and tried the same approach: run with faster runners, keep my mileage up, and record everything but I stalled at 1912...then I noticed something that I should have earlier...change the distance once you get the speed.
What I do now is keep my speed but increase the race distance. For example, I failed at breaking 40 min 10k 3 times before I decided to try and race out to five miles in 3210. Once I could make it there I move to the 10k and ran a 3943 10k. I know this is not very scientific or or will work for anyone else but it worked for me.
My workouts look like this. S-long, M-spinning, T-track, W-off, TH-tempo, F-easy/lite/no running, S-race/easyDid anyone develop their own crazy plan that seems to work?
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SaintCroixRunner
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 10:57 AM
Hey guys,
Well, a 5-K just fell in my lap for Sunday. A local triathlon team needs a runner for the final leg of the season kick-off sprint. It's a wheel measured 5-K so my first attempt since Sept. is on. Wish me luck.
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mbannon
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 02:16 PM
I predict you'll be starting the "Sub-19 5k" thread Monday morning. Run hard!!------------------
Running To My Future
Me and My Log
The Newbie Wiki
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Better than yesterday
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 02:53 PM
I won't be running any 5k's this Spring, except for one that's slow (but a fun event) because it's 1/2 trail and 1/2 pavement. But in the Fall of 2006 I want to take aim at 19:59 for the 5k's I have planned in September (2) and October (just one right now).My best showings this year were 21:37 and 21:41, plus a 21:00 3-mile race simulation (equals 21:42 5K) on my own in the summer. I also ran a 21:45 in '04. I think I need to break loose of the 7:00 mile pace barrier - I know I have to get past that mental hurdle if I'm going to make any kind of breakthrough. I think that the one thing that is holding me back the most is my bodyweight. I'm 6'1" and usually can get down to 175 for races, but am typically around 177 or 178. I think that to get where I want to be for a 5k, I need to get under 170, even 165 perhaps. Unfortunately, I get a lot of "you're too skinny" when I get down to 175, so I don't know about getting lower than that. The fact that I want to earn a medal in my AG in the discus throw next Summer creates a conflict, too, b/c at 41, I still have to throw the 2kg ("college weight") disc, which requires some meat behind it. Hard to be good at both the 5k and the discus, but both goals are equally important to me. I also can see that if I want to make some progress faster than 21:37, I need to start putting in the longer runs. I run 6 days per week now, about 30 on avg but as many as 38 a couple of times, but my longest run to date is only 10 miles, and I've been told by quite a few people (real and "imaginary web-people") that I need to get my long runs up to 12, 13 miles consistently. That seems to be the missing running ingredient. But I'm going to run at least one 10k and a 15k this Spring, so that will force me to keep honest with the longer runs. Good Luck to you guys. Save a place for me, would you? Brian And batfish, it is funny to think that Tallrunner once had to "break through" the same 20:00 barrier. He could probably run it backwards in under 20:00 today.
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batfish
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 03:08 PM
Hi BTY!This thread will be around for a while (I'm not breaking through any time soon), so you're place is secure. I think Talls in the sub-17 support group, these days. Must be nice. Weight not holding him back, that's fer sure. Good luck StCroix! Let us know how you do!
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jimgravity
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 03:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Better than yesterday:
I think that the one thing that is holding me back the most is my bodyweight. I'm 6'1" and usually can get down to 175 for races, but am typically around 177 or 178. I think that to get where I want to be for a 5k, I need to get under 170, even 165 perhaps. Unfortunately, I get a lot of "you're too skinny" when I get down to 175, so I don't know about getting lower than that. The fact that I want to earn a medal in my AG in the discus throw next Summer creates a conflict, too, b/c at 41, I still have to throw the 2kg ("college weight") disc, which requires some meat behind it. Hard to be good at both the 5k and the discus, but both goals are equally important to me.
Most experienced runners will tell you that you are at about the right weight when co-workers and family think you are too skinny, so maybe you don't need to go much thinner. Most of us will make big gains by slowly getting up to about 7 or more hours a week of running time. I think the key will be mileage.
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kspowell
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 03:22 PM
Count me in! I think the original sub-20 thread was for those already surpassing the mythical barrier. This one seems to be full of sub-20 hopefuls, therefore it is better suited to me!My 5K PR is 20:19. I am certain I could tackle the barrier if I did not concentrate on marathons so much. My training is more geared toward longer stuff, so I have a hard time w/ 5Ks because I feel like I am just getting in the groove around 3 mi into a race. I do 50-70 mpw. Right now I am building back closer to the 70 mi mark after taking it easy for a while after my last marathon, Chicago. It's going to be a tough winter though... it's a complete white-out outside now. Thank goodness I got in a 10 mi tempo run earlier today. I hate running on the treadmill! I know I can make it though the winter though. I ran every day for 3.5 months straight from mid-Dec to March in preparation for Boston 2005. Only time will tell, but after 8 years of running, I am still improving. My 5K time decreased a full minute from 2004-2005. I'd love to take off a minute from 2005-2006!!!
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New pic, new PR at Chicago 2005
Positive thoughts--negative splits!
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CH BUTT
unregistered |
posted Dec-08-2005 04:32 PM
There weren't many 5ks in the eighties so I just went to the track and ran the suckers until I broke 20. 20:16-20:09-20:13-19:57 The 20:16 was after watching the 82 BAA Marathon in April. The 19:57 was in July. At the same time I was racing 10K to 10 Miles and many one mile time trials, the fastest at 5:37.
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runningsmarter
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 06:37 PM
Hey Kristy, welcome!I've seen your name on other threads, I think our times are very similar. I may run Chicago next year too! I'm holding off on running another marathon until I am close to the 3 hr mark which hopefully next fall I will be. Time will tell. I would like to concentrate on HMs and bring my times down without the wear and tear of the longer runs required for the the full marathon (right now I'm maxing out the LR at 18mi). And of course in so doing, I'll also be running 5 and 10ks and would like to break the 20 barrier in the spring and maybe the 40 barrier in the early fall. Good Luck!
rs ------------------
My running profile [This message has been edited by runningsmarter (edited Dec-09-2005).]
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JasonsDrivingForce
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-08-2005 09:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Better than yesterday:
I think that the one thing that is holding me back the most is my bodyweight. I'm 6'1" and usually can get down to 175 for races, but am typically around 177 or 178. I think that to get where I want to be for a 5k, I need to get under 170, even 165 perhaps. Unfortunately, I get a lot of "you're too skinny" when I get down to 175, so I don't know about getting lower than that. The fact that I want to earn a medal in my AG in the discus throw next Summer creates a conflict, too, b/c at 41, I still have to throw the 2kg ("college weight") disc, which requires some meat behind it. Hard to be good at both the 5k and the discus, but both goals are equally important to me.
I guess I am in the way to skinny category then. I am 6'3" and I was down to 154 this week. I eat like a horse and I only do about 10 MPW. I guess metabolism really has a lot to do with it. I guess I make up for it by pushing a 60 Lb jogging stroller in every race!
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kspowell
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-09-2005 08:02 AM
Hey RS, You're right. Our times are very close. Looks like we're both a bit better at what we're focusing on. Shorter for you, longer for me. What's your running history? Your profile says "running consistently since 2004." If you did not run very much prior to that, I am amazed by your times... it's taken me a lot of hard work to get there. You'd laugh at my times from my first year of running. I'm sure you'll far surpass my times very soon. ------------------
New pic, new PR at Chicago 2005
Positive thoughts--negative splits!
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RFanatic730
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-09-2005 08:19 AM
SaintCroix.... I visited the island last year for a golf tournament. Just wondering if you do any of your training on "The Beast", its the crazy hill by the Carambola resort. Best of luck breaking 20. My PR is 20:25 but I've been doing most of my training for ultras so I haven't been concentrating too much on speed. This winter I'll be running a 5K park series here in NY so I've changed up my training a bit to include a bit more speed work. Hopefully I'll break the mark by the end of the winter. Good luck all! -Johnny
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markbixler1973
Member |
posted Dec-09-2005 08:44 AM
Hi there all. I am new to this forum and wanted to jump in here. I have been running for about a year and a half. My 5k PR is 21:27 this past July. Completed my first half in November in 1:43.21. My training is to inconsistent, so I need guidance on how to become more consistent. This is a great thread as I am eager to break the 20 minute barrier.
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robp
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-09-2005 08:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Better than yesterday:
I won't be running any 5k's this Spring, except for one that's slow (but a fun event) because it's 1/2 trail and 1/2 pavement. But in the Fall of 2006 I want to take aim at 19:59 for the 5k's I have planned in September (2) and October (just one right now).My best showings this year were 21:37 and 21:41, plus a 21:00 3-mile race simulation (equals 21:42 5K) on my own in the summer. I also ran a 21:45 in '04. I think I need to break loose of the 7:00 mile pace barrier - I know I have to get past that mental hurdle if I'm going to make any kind of breakthrough. I think that the one thing that is holding me back the most is my bodyweight. I'm 6'1" and usually can get down to 175 for races, but am typically around 177 or 178. I think that to get where I want to be for a 5k, I need to get under 170, even 165 perhaps. Unfortunately, I get a lot of "you're too skinny" when I get down to 175, so I don't know about getting lower than that. The fact that I want to earn a medal in my AG in the discus throw next Summer creates a conflict, too, b/c at 41, I still have to throw the 2kg ("college weight") disc, which requires some meat behind it. Hard to be good at both the 5k and the discus, but both goals are equally important to me. I also can see that if I want to make some progress faster than 21:37, I need to start putting in the longer runs. I run 6 days per week now, about 30 on avg but as many as 38 a couple of times, but my longest run to date is only 10 miles, and I've been told by quite a few people (real and "imaginary web-people") that I need to get my long runs up to 12, 13 miles consistently. That seems to be the missing running ingredient. But I'm going to run at least one 10k and a 15k this Spring, so that will force me to keep honest with the longer runs. Good Luck to you guys. Save a place for me, would you? Brian And batfish, it is funny to think that Tallrunner once had to "break through" the same 20:00 barrier. He could probably run it backwards in under 20:00 today.
Race at a weight that you are comfortable with. My best 5k times, at age 43, were when I was around 165-168 lbs at 5'9". Personally, when I got under 160 lbs, I felt weak and was more prone to getting sick.
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runningsmarter
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-09-2005 10:04 AM
KS, I did run prior to that and even ran my first marathon (~5:10) back in 1994 but I ran sporadically to stay in shape for numerous other sports. The marathon wasn't really a "smart" thing to do  Before being talked into running the marathon my longest run (only once) was 6 miles. My runs were usually ~ 3 miles maybe once or twice a week (there were periods and sometimes a year that I didn't run). Running was never really my thing until I kept getting injured at other sports and realized when I couldn't run how much I actually like to run (who knew ). So Aug of 2004 I decided to get "smart" on proper training, learn as much as I could and see how fast I can become! To be honest, I've been surprised at my improvement too. I'm sure a LOT has to do with just running regularly because when I ran the 10K in Aug I had only done 4 speed sessions up to that point. Working hard for something makes it that much more rewarding! Here's to hoping (and trng) for more PRs for us in 2006! rs [This message has been edited by runningsmarter (edited Dec-09-2005).]
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markbixler1973
Member |
posted Dec-09-2005 10:39 AM
I will be getting back in the groove starting next week after a one week lay off to recover from my half. Going to go about 30-35 mpw. I want to peak for a July 5K that is on a flat course. (Hard to come by around here in the heart of the Blue Ridge Mountains). What is a good build up?
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portlander
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-09-2005 11:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by markbixler1973:
What is a good build up?
Here is my winter schedule, trying to get to 45/week. You could take one day off, and one run less mile each day. Try to be consistent!
m-7
t-5
w-5
t-7
f-5
s-3
s-10-12 Current pr is 20:11 from last december. I didn't run much through about May of this year, and then trained for a marathon. I was in sub-20 shape in august when I ran 7.4 miles at 6:45 pace, but since the marathon my training has been inconsistent. I am racing a 5K this weekend, but I would say 19:xx is a loooooong shot!
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mykemp1971
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-11-2005 09:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by duckgeek:
This sounds like a pretty good group with realistic goals! Batfish, maybe we can get Myron over here too. He's running great and could pop a sub-20 any time now.
Hey... I just saw this thread... My last chance for a sub 20 5k this year is today... and unfortuantely, we have family pictures scheduled  So the 20:47 I ran last March, will have to remain my PR for the year. I'm hoping to hit sub 20 next April. I've been keeping my distance up post marathon, but havn't been doing any speedwork in December, all I'm doing is running for the sake of running. One hour runs during the week, 2-3 hour runs on the weekends. I plan to start speedwork and tempo runs again in January. I'm running my second marathon in early March, which I think could leave me with a good opportunity for a sub20 in early April.
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Myron
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batfish
Cool Runner |
posted Dec-11-2005 09:15 AM
Hi Myron and everyone,I had a bad week. I had several good runs, but my running route went to seed over the course of the week - freezing solid, snow covered, frozen ruts, frozen puddles, etc. I unwisely kept running on the trail despite the increasingly treachorous footing and now I've injured myself! I've got a spot of what I believe (and hope) is just patellar tendonitis, so I'm taking some days off, icing and popping ibuprofen to knock it back. If I can't resume running by next weekend, I'll have to go get it checked out, but hopefully, it IS just tendonitis and will resolve with rest, ice and anti-inflammatories. I've had tendonitis many times in the past (mostly when I was still fat and did lots of hiking (the downhills would get me)), but this is the first time I've had it since taking off most of the weight and starting with the running. I'm using my down time to scope out some road based running routes for when I get back to training. Anyway, good running to everyone else - I'll check in again next weekend and will hopefully be back out on the roads by then.
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Batfish
Profile
Running Log
The Newbie Wiki [This message has been edited by batfish (edited Dec-11-2005).]
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