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Sub 20-Minute 5-K


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Author Topic:   Sub 20-Minute 5-K
Southern Man
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posted Feb-24-2007 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Southern Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:

I hope you smash 20 minutes like 19:30 or something. That would feel pretty good. I don't think a course that is 1% downhill slope would be certified though. The distance is probably correct.


Certification only means the distance is correct. A downhill course can be certified, many are. In order for a course to be considered record-quality it cannot have a net drop of more than 1 meter/kilometer and the distance between the start and finish line must be less than 35% of the race distance (those are from memory, so they may be off a little).

Whether you want to count a non-certified course, or a downhill course, or one with a huge tailwind as a personal record is entirely up to you. I am generally suspicious of non-certified courses, but I've often said I would count a PR fall down a mountain if I was sure the distance was correct.

Southern Man

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Mar-01-2007 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
New record in the 1.5 mile treadmill run.

Came through 1 mile in 5:57 and 1.5 in 8:50 last night.

143 February miles gave me my 1st monthly average over 5 miles per day. Cruising in on that last quarter mile last night felt so easy. I want to race in March but may have too many commitments. April 7 is almost a sure race day albeit the course could be run on trails somewhat which would hurt my time. I am anxious to run a few miles outdoors. Normally I run a 1/2 mile each way to and from my car each day to get to work and back...I am ready for racing.

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brook trout
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posted Mar-01-2007 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brook trout   Click Here to Email brook trout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can I come back?

I'm re-newbied, basically. Lots of personal stuff and an injury have kept me from running and I'm basically starting from scratch.

I have only run a handful of times in the past several months, and have put on about 10 pounds since I ran my last sub-20. I'm right around 175 now, which puts me back to about 25 pounds overweight. I'm pretty out of shape, too. I went for a four mile jog yesterday (first run in two weeks) and 8:30 miles felt tough. I've run about 20 miles in the past two or three months, probably average a single run every 10 days or so. They've been getting progressively harder

I want to get back into it, because running was so effective for keeping my mind right when I was really into it. Setting a new goal and having some comradery might be motivating.

I see some familiar faces around this thread, but the other forums are full of names I don't recognize! Ah, well.

First thing I need to do is get off some of this weight. I'm going to be doing a lot of walking and only some running until I'm back at a weight where it'll be safe for me to run (my ITB is still a little tweeky, so I got to be careful).

Anyway - I ran 5 sub-20s consecutively last spring, summer, and fall, and I'm confident I can get back there and even further if I can actually get down to that goal weight of 150 - that I've had for over a year now!

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bonesheal
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posted Mar-03-2007 08:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonesheal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I finally got the monkey off my back! Today I ran a 19:29 on a hilly, windy, certified, record-eligible course.

I ran a 20:18 in 2005 in a race where I ran way too fast in the first mile, and had to tie my shoe in the middle of the race. Since then I've thought I was about to break 20 each time I raced. I was doing speedwork back then, though, and my running was much less consistent after that race.

In December I started marathon training, so my mileage has gone up from 35-40mpw to 50-65 mpw. Most of my speedwork has been tempo. I haven't felt any faster lately, but I'm clearly stronger, able to hold a pace for much longer than before. I ran a 12:14 2-mile time trial, which predicts about a 19:36 5k, so I was hopeful this morning.

After my 4/28 marathon, I'm going to try some 5k-specific work and see if I can get that number under 19.

I haven't posted often on this thread, but I've kept up, and it's been very useful to me.

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paulmitch
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posted Mar-03-2007 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for paulmitch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Running a sub 20 on a hilly course is much more satisfying then running one on a flat course. I'll take hilly anyday.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Mar-19-2007 08:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
March 16th.

Treadmill PR in the 4 mile of 25:15.
My old PR was 26:15 on December 9th.
So I took a whole minute off my time in 3 months!

Still very little speedwork.
I did run one day of interval on the treadmill finally.
I ran two half miles and two quarter miles.
Speeds around 10-10.5 MPH.
Not alot huh?

I have run a little outdoors a couple miles.
And it feels very good. Not difficult at all.

By the way I kept running after 4 miles and broke my
5 mile PR as well with a time of 31:49...a PR by 1:19 which was set on December 31.
The 5th mile I kind of took it somewhat easy
since the 4 mile record is what I was searching for.
Also broke a 30 minute treadmill PR by hitting 4.70 miles for average speed of 9.4 MPH.


Anyhow my splits:

6:24
6:24
6:24
6:03

And 6:35 on mile 5 taking it easier.
Thats right a 6:03 fourth mile!
The last half of the 4th mile was run in 2:53.

So now I should write my miles per week since basebuilding started on 10-22

20
22
24
18

26
28
30
19

33
36
39
26

35
37
37
25

42
38
38
25

36

[This message has been edited by MichiganFlyer (edited Mar-19-2007).]

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Tchuck
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posted Mar-19-2007 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice progress Michigan. Way to stick too it and progress. No reason you can't continue to improve

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Mar-19-2007 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks tchuck.

I have been trying to keep things low key and not talk alot about running lest people will say "come on run a race and lets see your times"

Last Sept. I tried for a sub 20 and had a time of 21:20. That got me off the talk about it every day mentality. I started the base building program and stopped talking so much about sub 20.

I would like to break 20 within 6 weeks outside. It is tough but I am ready. I looked up my 25:15 time for 4 miles on a treadmill at 0% incline and that is equivalent to a 26:20 - 4 mile time outdoors. SO I am very close. I may run a race in the next couple weeks that is run a mile on rolling trail.
The offroad portion could cost me a chance of sub 20 but I need to get some racing in to figure out speeds outside.

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MaineRunner2001
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posted Mar-19-2007 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaineRunner2001     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good running, MichiganFlyer. I hope the base building pays off.

I've averaged about 30 Miles per week ytd: four weeks between 31 and 35 miles followed by a 24 to 25 mile cut back week; then repeat. Quality weekly workouts: January / half of February - only an 8 to 10 mile long run; Half of Feburary / to now - 10 mile long run & four mile tempo run. I will continue with the weekly tempo and long run until an April 5K. Between April and May I plan to add another four mile tempo run to my schedule and then race a May 5K.

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Tchuck
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posted Mar-19-2007 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mainerunner,

Rather than 2 tempos per week, add in some critical velocity reps or about 10K pace for you. Do like 3 progressing to 5-6 X 1K w/ 2 min progressing to 1 min recoveries. These will help your racing at all distances while still staying aerobic!

Now you could rotate weeks of tempo or threshold 1 mile intervals and CV reps the next. Just a suggestion.

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jakey
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posted Mar-19-2007 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jakey   Click Here to Email jakey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FINALLY, after a year and a half of trying to get there, I made it this weekend. I hadn't really run a race in almost a year, and when I finally did it, I smashed through 20. Final time 19:05. Not a certified course, but it didn't seem long. Either way I'll take it as I don't really like short distances, and with this goal down, I'm less likely to think about it.

Here's the report.

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/009838.shtml

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jakey
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posted Mar-19-2007 02:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jakey   Click Here to Email jakey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Crap, double post sorry.

[This message has been edited by jakey (edited Mar-19-2007).]

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MaineRunner2001
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posted Mar-20-2007 06:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MaineRunner2001     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congratulations jakey, nice job.
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Tchuck: critical velocity reps have intrigued me.

Over the past three years, before a goal 5K, I have added intervals (a build up to 6 X half mile around 3:13 followed by a couple minutes recovery). I have not enjoyed them, and I have not improved - always hitting 20:xx, not 19:xx.

My 10K PR (set a little over two years ago - I do not run 10K's often) is about a 7:10 pace. Last year my best race was a 34:20 8K. Using that race, McMillan predicts a 10K pace around 7:00. Would you suggest as quality workouts a 10 mile long run (I do them slow between 9:00 and 10:00 minutes per mile), a four mile tempo run (I do them between 7:10 and 7:20 pace), and a build up to 6 X 1K @ 4:20 with one minute recover?

Thanks

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Tchuck
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posted Mar-20-2007 07:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maine...

It appears your 5K time is not in line with your 10K time. Generally a 20 min 5Ker can run a sub 42 10K.

Critical velocity is a pace you will learn to know what it feels like. More than likely, this pace is closer to 6:45 - 6:50 based on a 20 min 5K time but you certainly can start them on the slow side focusing on effort or working toward 91-92 % of max HR during these. Don't fight to get to the pace, let it come to you if feeling it. CV reps should be very challenging and should not be as hard or feel as hard as VO2 reps.

Your work out is fine. Maybe finish your long runs stronger the last 2 miles if feeling good. Not killer but stronger pace.
For threshold, 3-4 X 1 mile reps at 7 min pace or 4 miles at 7:15 - 7:20 pace would be fine. Try the mile reps at a bit faster pace if you chose to not do the CV reps.

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PapaBanucci
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posted Mar-20-2007 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PapaBanucci     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just joined this site, am planning on logging here, and this thread may be the place for me!

I'm 39 yo, male, and have been running 2.5 years.

I have 73 seconds to kill.

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MichiganFlyer
Cool Runner
posted Mar-21-2007 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jakey:
FINALLY, after a year and a half of trying to get there, I made it this weekend. I hadn't really run a race in almost a year, and when I finally did it, I smashed through 20. Final time 19:05. Not a certified course, but it didn't seem long. Either way I'll take it as I don't really like short distances, and with this goal down, I'm less likely to think about it.

Here's the report.

http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/009838.shtml



Good running!
You didn't say how you improved your times from last year however. What was the main thing you believe that helped you beat the 20 barrier?

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afletche
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posted Mar-23-2007 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for afletche     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My first real 5K will be tomorrow. (I did a 21:49 a while back when I wimped out during a hilly 10k race because of illness). I'm training for/running HMs right now and figured it would be good to know my 5k capability to help set some training paces a little more accurately.

A recent half (1:35) suggests I can perhaps run 20:3x, but my next half goal (sub 1:30) suggests I better be running more like 19:3x! Logic dictates that my recent race is probably a better indicator than my goal race but logic isn't going to make me faster!

What's a good strategy for racing 5ks? fast start and hang on? steady start, then speed up? this will be a small field on a flat course (~80 people) and there wont be a lot of fast people. probably only 3-4 people under 21 mins.

My somewhat hastily prepared plan is to try running 6:30 for mile 1 and see if I can speed it up in miles 2 & 3 by chasing down people ahead of me. To be honest I have no idea if I can do this and haven't done any 630 specific pace training, so it's obviously a stretch.

thanks, alan

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jakey
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posted Mar-23-2007 10:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jakey   Click Here to Email jakey     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:

Good running!
You didn't say how you improved your times from last year however. What was the main thing you believe that helped you beat the 20 barrier?

Thanks!

My last year PR was 20:35, so this was a minute and a half improvement.

And I can only attribute the increase in speed to one thing. Miles. The year before I put in around 900 miles, last year I put in 1550. I did some 800 intervals and hill repeats in the spring, but after my spring marathon, I did nothing but miles. A handful of near marathon pace runs and a smaller handful of tempo runs. I just increased my aerobic base by quite a bit, and it gave me what I needed to last through the 5K.

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Tchuck
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posted Mar-23-2007 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by afletche:
My first real 5K will be tomorrow. (I did a 21:49 a while back when I wimped out during a hilly 10k race because of illness). I'm training for/running HMs right now and figured it would be good to know my 5k capability to help set some training paces a little more accurately.

A recent half (1:35) suggests I can perhaps run 20:3x, but my next half goal (sub 1:30) suggests I better be running more like 19:3x! Logic dictates that my recent race is probably a better indicator than my goal race but logic isn't going to make me faster!

What's a good strategy for racing 5ks? fast start and hang on? steady start, then speed up? this will be a small field on a flat course (~80 people) and there wont be a lot of fast people. probably only 3-4 people under 21 mins.

My somewhat hastily prepared plan is to try running 6:30 for mile 1 and see if I can speed it up in miles 2 & 3 by chasing down people ahead of me. To be honest I have no idea if I can do this and haven't done any 630 specific pace training, so it's obviously a stretch.

thanks, alan


Alan, I would say try going out at 6:30 - 6:35 (NO FASTER). If you haven't raced in a while, you will have adrenaline and you will go fast and it won't feel too fast and suddenly you are doing 6 min pace and once you realize it, it is too late to recover and you survive to finish line.

If I want to run a 6:30 pace avg. or whatever, my strategy is to run around this pace or even 5 sec. slower the first mile. I have my Garmin so I can monitor my pace. I actually feel like I am holding back. With this feeling, I am generally right where I need to be at when taking into account race day and adrenaline. If you don't put such an anaerobic load on system so early in race, you will have the juice to pick it up the last mile and finish very strong and feeling great! Well, it will hurt but that comes with the race but you will feel a heck of a lot better vs. trying to survive......

Get a nice warm up in and run a smart race. This race will tell you a lot.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Mar-23-2007 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jakey:
Thanks!

My last year PR was 20:35, so this was a minute and a half improvement.

And I can only attribute the increase in speed to one thing. Miles. The year before I put in around 900 miles, last year I put in 1550. I did some 800 intervals and hill repeats in the spring, but after my spring marathon, I did nothing but miles. A handful of near marathon pace runs and a smaller handful of tempo runs. I just increased my aerobic base by quite a bit, and it gave me what I needed to last through the 5K.


Good to know.
In 2006 I ran about 970 total miles.

In the last year (Mar.23- Mar.23) I have run 1300 miles
In the last 6 months 700 miles
In the last 4 months 550 miles


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Jim24315
Cool Runner
posted Mar-23-2007 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim24315   Click Here to Email Jim24315     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"During my career, the most important aspect of my training regime was strength. You can pend the rest of your life working on speed and make little progress, but if you spend the rest of your running career working on strength, you’ll always continue to improve. Improvements are also achieved by increasing your endurance. What do I mean by strength or endurance? Mileage, Mileage, Mileage! The more miles you can run, the stronger you will be."

Steve Scott - 136 sub four miles

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PapaBanucci
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posted Mar-23-2007 09:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PapaBanucci     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a great week training this week! Did what I was supposed to do each workout. :-)

Focusing a lot of form in my base mileage runs. Form, form, form.

My left knee was making itself known for a couple weeks. Has felt perfect all week. :-)

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afletche
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posted Mar-24-2007 01:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for afletche     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
just got back from my 5k race. managed a 20:38, so i guess i need to do a little more work.....

had planned to go out at 6:30 and see if i could get under 20:00 with a fast finish......

unfortunately, despite doing a reasonable warmup to try and lock the pace, i started way too fast (the garmin takes a little while to settle down) and did the first quarter mile at 6:05 pace, consciously slowed it down for the second quarter but then i was too slow (6:55) - it took me about a mile to get on 6:30 pace. got through mile 2.5 ok, but faded bad in the last 0.6mile (down to 7:10 pace).

overall it was 6:38 pace but that fast start killed me. stupid mistake.

incidentally, 20:38 was exactly what mcmillan running predicted based on half marathon time (1:35:22) from 2 weeks ago.

i have another half on 4/22 so i think i'll give the sub 20:00 5k another shot in early may. another 6 weeks of half marathon training will certainly help with the endurance and i'll be sure to throw in some 6:30 miles to help with my pacing problem.

thanks for all advice (wish i'd followed it)!

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kgdmusic1
Cool Runner
posted Mar-25-2007 08:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kgdmusic1   Click Here to Email kgdmusic1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I FINALLY smashed through 20 minutes (19:50) in January with a strategy that I just 'fell upon'. Up until then my PR was 20:15 with no hope of ever doing it... I ended up running the 1st mile WAY TOO FAST but hung on and broke through.

The day after that I stumbled onto an article that had researched proof that if you run around 6% faster than your average pace in your 1st mile then you will do better than running your average pace (or slower) your 1st mile. (it is for 5k's and 10k's only but I haven't tried it in a 10k yet - has anyone tried this in a 10k?)

Sure enough I did that in a March 3 5k and experienced the exact same results. Now, I HAVE increased my mileage and been very consistant at track workouts since my October 20:15 PR BUT I'm starting to really believe in that strategy. What I try to do now is to go out in a 6:05-6:10 pace, slow down A LITTLE in the 2nd mile and just hold on from there until I try speeding up in the final 400m. That has worked my last 2 5k's!

AGAIN, HAS ANYONE TRIED THIS IN THE 10K?

I'm running Peachtree - hmmmmmmmm

Oddly enough, an article in Men's Fitness I read yesterday suggested the same strategy so I've now read it in several places....

-Kendall

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Tchuck
Cool Runner
posted Mar-25-2007 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One big thing to look at is the fitness of a runner, their training plan, their miles per week. An elite runner can get away with a 6% above goal race strategy, but most of us can't.

My personal opinion is this strategy for many people will backfire because they will feel they need to start faster and will come out above that 6% you claim. It just sets people up to put too big of anaerobic load on their system that they can't recover from. I think 3% above goal is the max and the handful of runners I have coached and through my personal racing experience, I have found going out at goal pace to even 5 sec. slower per mile allows a faster, better and more rewarding finish, race experience and a bit faster times.

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