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Sub 20-Minute 5-K


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Author Topic:   Sub 20-Minute 5-K
Tchuck
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posted Nov-23-2006 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have sub 20 min in you if you run a smarter race. Your pace at 1/10 of mile was fast but still enough time to get back on track for your 6:25-30 pace. It is when you are at 1/2 mile and find you are going too fast where you may be in trouble. Today I ran a 3 mile race in 18:53 - translates to 19:27 5K. My first mile was 6:24, second 6:26, third 6:07. I finished strong passing 20 people the last mile and finishing with an all out sprint. In past I have run 6:20, 6:15, 6:10. If you crank on first mile, you won't run your best time. Try again.....

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Jim24315
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posted Nov-23-2006 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim24315   Click Here to Email Jim24315     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by joev9:
It is certified and is totally flat. I ran this race last year, so I know the course well and picked it specifically for a strong PR attempt.

A belated congratulations, joev9. I expected many more PR's from you in the coming months and years.

Well done!

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JasonsDrivingForce
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posted Nov-23-2006 09:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonsDrivingForce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bonesheal:
I've been lurking on this thread for a long time, but not posting because I wasn't racing. I did a couple of 20:30s this year, and then last week I did a 3k in 11:31 in the course of a Cooper test. That translates into a sub-20 5k, and it wasn't quite at race effort, so I was hopeful for today's turkey trot. I wound up with 20:06 or 20:07 (I haven't seen the results yet). I'm disappointed, but I think the circumstances point to the possibility of better races in the near future. In any event, these are the things I console myself with.

2. It was a fairly tough course; it was hilly and wet, with lots of leaves and paint stripes on the road to negotiate. There were a couple of steep downhills ending in 90 degree turns that I had to go easy on for fear of slipping.

It was going to be my last race of the year, but I can't let the year end like that!


bonesheal,

What race did you run today? I ran the Cary Turkey trot but that was an 8K. Was there a 5K in the Raleigh today? Yea don't give up on the sub 20 this year. Just select the right course and you will get it. What ever you do don't try to PR on this course in Chapel Hill. Check out the elevations for it at the link below. It climbs about 100 ft in less than 1/4 of a mile.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=525374

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bonesheal
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posted Nov-23-2006 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonesheal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 5k was in Wake Forest--I think they thought it would be a small local race, but they got a lot more people than they expected. They announced that the streets were not closed off, and asked us to run on the sidewalks. I never saw a marker for mile 1. It was a bit disorganized, but then I only paid $12 for race day registration, so I can't complain. And it was a certified course.

I moved to Raleigh last year, and I've run three very hilly races here. When I find a flat course, I'll hit it every year.

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joev9
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posted Nov-27-2006 07:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jim24315:
A belated congratulations, joev9. I expected many more PR's from you in the coming months and years.

Well done!


Thanks Jim. '07 WILL be the year of PRs as I will be venturing up to 10 miles, 1/2 Marathon, and full Marathon, all distances I have never done before...

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brook trout
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posted Nov-27-2006 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for brook trout   Click Here to Email brook trout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great job, Joev!

bonesheal, I understand your frustration about the lack of flat courses in the area.

I have run one, very flat course, though. The Selma Railroad Run - very flat lollipop. It's about 25-30 miles east of Raleigh and it runs in the fall.

It's the only truly flat course I've run down here, out of four or so races. The big RD in the area likes to advertise courses as 'flat and fast', when they're not, btw - so take any such proclamation with a grain of salt.

It seems like races to the east are the best for flat-ness.

PS - We (Raleigh/Traingle folks) have a good natured, fairly active thread in the "Neighborhood" forum, if you're interested.

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[This message has been edited by brook trout (edited Nov-27-2006).]

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JasonsDrivingForce
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posted Nov-27-2006 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonsDrivingForce     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brook trout:
Great job, Joev!

bonesheal, I understand your frustration about the lack of flat courses in the area.

I have run one, very flat course, though. The Selma Railroad Run - very flat lollipop. It's about 25-30 miles east of Raleigh and it runs in the fall.

It's the only truly flat course I've run down here, out of four or so races. The big RD in the area likes to advertise courses as 'flat and fast', when they're not, btw - so take any such proclamation with a grain of salt.


How flat is that Selma Course? Are we talking "track" flat? I always thought that the Autism ribbon run was as flat as it gets. Man I sure would like to see what I could do on a course flatter than that! Is the Selma run a 5K?

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brook trout
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posted Nov-27-2006 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brook trout   Click Here to Email brook trout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Selma Railroad Run is as flat as I've seen and it's certified. Yes, 5K. Not quite like a track, but there are NO hills (perhaps a couple of gentle, gradual inclines/declines).

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Southern Man
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posted Nov-27-2006 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Southern Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by brook trout:
Selma Railroad Run is as flat as I've seen and it's certified. Yes, 5K. Not quite like a track, but there are NO hills (perhaps a couple of gentle, gradual inclines/declines).


I don't know if they still run it, but you guys should be on the lookout for a 5k down in Pine Level. A little farther to travel then Selma, but level was an apt descriptions of both the town and the course. I think it was run in the late summer, but it has been quite a few years. Don't know if it was certified, it was pretty small.

Southern Man

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paulmitch
Cool Runner
posted Nov-29-2006 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for paulmitch     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you guys ever see the phitz book at Barnes and Nobles. I hate ordering online. My mailman is a runner, and he might steal it.

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portlander
Cool Runner
posted Nov-29-2006 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for portlander     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you think I can break 20:00 based on today's workout? (Race is on 12/10).

5x1000 + 2x400 + 2x200 all with 200 jog recovery (~90 secs)

1000s: 3:53, 3:56, 3:55, 3:55, 3:56
400s: :86, :86
200s: :38 (40 sec rest), :37

It was a tough workout but not a killer. I really appreciated the rest periods - it was hard to imagine doing those 1000s back to back. I haven't raced since May so that might be the biggest thing holding me back, but I still feel like I have a decent shot at sub-20.

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Tchuck
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posted Nov-29-2006 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is a similar work out I had JoeV do. I think Joe and I did them at around 3:15-3:20 intervals. It really depends on the miles you have put in and your make up. Also, what is your previous best and what is your conditioning vs. then. My guess, is that it will be difficult for you to break 20 min.

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Jim24315
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posted Nov-29-2006 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim24315   Click Here to Email Jim24315     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tchuck,

Those are 1000's that Portlander ran, not 800's. Even if he overdid it on that workout, he should smash 20 minutes. I've had several sub 20's the past couple years and have never run a workout that strong, especially if you consider the addtion of the 400's and 200.

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brook trout
Cool Runner
posted Nov-29-2006 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brook trout   Click Here to Email brook trout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by portlander:
Do you think I can break 20:00 based on today's workout? (Race is on 12/10).

5x1000 + 2x400 + 2x200 all with 200 jog recovery (~90 secs)

1000s: 3:53, 3:56, 3:55, 3:55, 3:56
400s: :86, :86
200s: :38 (40 sec rest), :37

It was a tough workout but not a killer. I really appreciated the rest periods - it was hard to imagine doing those 1000s back to back. I haven't raced since May so that might be the biggest thing holding me back, but I still feel like I have a decent shot at sub-20.


Absolutely. I've ran 5 sub-20s in a row, and that workout would be tough for me.

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bonesheal
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posted Nov-29-2006 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bonesheal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by portlander:
Do you think I can break 20:00 based on today's workout? (Race is on 12/10).

5x1000 + 2x400 + 2x200 all with 200 jog recovery (~90 secs)

1000s: 3:53, 3:56, 3:55, 3:55, 3:56
400s: :86, :86
200s: :38 (40 sec rest), :37

It was a tough workout but not a killer. I really appreciated the rest periods - it was hard to imagine doing those 1000s back to back. I haven't raced since May so that might be the biggest thing holding me back, but I still feel like I have a decent shot at sub-20.


I'd like to hear how you do in this race, because I'd put you comfortably under 20 min. with that workout. Is this part of a training plan? Have you been doing fast work? What's your current pr?

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Tchuck
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posted Nov-30-2006 09:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My bad, I was thinking 800s for those splits. Yes, you should be able to smash 20 min. Run a smart race and you will be fine.

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portlander
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posted Nov-30-2006 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for portlander     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the encouragement. I wish I was as confident...

TChuck - of course, I borrowed that workout from your earlier posts on this thread. I have been doing the 1000s for a few weeks, but added the faster reps at the end. My PR is 19:55 from a track time-trial 2 years ago. I'd say my fitness is similar or slightly better now. In 2005 I ran no certified 5Ks but did run a marathon in 3:35. In 2006, I've only run one race - a hilly 5K in 21:18 after a long layoff, so I don't have a good feel for my current fitness. I'm like you - I generally run about 25 miles per week (even my marathon phase only averaged 30 over the 18 weeks).

Jim - you are a strong runner, and I don't have nearly the endurance that you do. I appreciate your feedback.

brook - I just wish you were here to pace me.

bonesheal - I was planning to focus my training on the mile this fall, but any mile-pace running seems to strain my left quad. So no real plan, I've just been runnning 30+ per week with a tempo run and a longer interval session. I'll definitely post my results after the race.

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joev9
Cool Runner
posted Dec-01-2006 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yeah, tchuck, i did the 800s, 400s, 200s workout twice with the first time the 800s were 3:20 avg. and the 2nd time they were 3:17 avg. i wanted to do the 1000s but didn't have time in my schedule for them. my 5K after those two workouts was 19:45 on a very flat course on a 50 degree cloudy day. great workout that i plan on hitting again once i start focusing on speed again (sometime next year).

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jgfmf
Member
posted Dec-01-2006 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jgfmf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok this is just another perspective on the milage issue.

I ran my fasted 5k (20:35) by running less than 10 MPW. I basically did sprint work, long walks, and 2 3-5 mile runs a week. It kept me injury free and my time went way down doing semi-hard 1/4 mile sprints (around 80-90 seconds)

As long as I walked and did a couple of runs my endurance was good. The 1/4 sprints is what drove my time down.

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Tchuck
Cool Runner
posted Dec-01-2006 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
80-90 sec. 400s aren't sprints, for you it would be v02 work which does help 5K times. Doing these short term will help but long term, your 5K time will get slower on your low miles.

JoeV,
Those critical velocity work outs can be done year round but maybe not quite the volume - and fast reps at end are not necessary. My plan is one week during my mid long run to do marathon pace work at around 7:10 - 7:30 pace for 40 minutes one week and the next week 4-5 X 1K CV reps or 1/2 marathon pace at 6:40 - 6:50 pace. I consulted with Tinman and he told be to definitely not quit doing these work outs over the winter and actually told me to up the tempo work to 40 minutes and CV reps to 20 minutes. And by keeping them up, I will be ahead of the game come spring and should have a stronger racing season.

Threshold work is cumulative. It is one area you can continue to improve on long term even on lower miles per week. Last winter, I tried the Maffetone approach from Dec. 1 to mid Jan. but was regressing. It took me a while to get my threshold back and my best racing was in the Fall. I should be even stronger this spring even on my lower miles by keeping up my tempos and CV work......

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14 25 5k
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posted Dec-02-2006 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 14 25 5k   Click Here to Email 14 25 5k     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a record for the 20 5k.

M (age)75 20:00.13 James Todd GBR 75 23.07.97

So all you kids have something to shoot for, hehehe

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Southern Man
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posted Dec-02-2006 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Southern Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 14 25 5k:
Here is a record for the 20 5k.

M (age)75 20:00.13 James Todd GBR 75 23.07.97

So all you kids have something to shoot for, hehehe


That's not quite the record, but still very impressive for 75:

Ed Whitlock's 18:45 a new "World Road Record"

from Race Results Weekly, copyright David Monti, reposted with permission

TORONTO, CAN (14-Jul): The Nissan Foundation 5-K at The Docks. In his first road race since turning 75, Ed Whitlock not only set a new pending Canadian M75 record for 5-K of 18:45, but he also smashed the previous world age-group record. The former mark of 19:24 was set by American Warren Utes at the 1995 Park Ridge Charity Run 5-K. /MARTY POST/

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Jim24315
Cool Runner
posted Dec-02-2006 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim24315   Click Here to Email Jim24315     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 14 25 5k:
Here is a record for the 20 5k.

M (age)75 20:00.13 James Todd GBR 75 23.07.97

So all you kids have something to shoot for, hehehe


James, It's not clear to me if you ran 20:00.13 or 23.07.97.

If it was the first one--sensational!! If it was the 2nd one--very, very good!


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14 25 5k
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posted Dec-02-2006 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 14 25 5k   Click Here to Email 14 25 5k     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I posted the one found at the WMA site that was just updated. I did find the Ed record after doing a search. 20 is fast but 18+ at 75 sounds nuts haha. The guy is doped heehe

http://www.world-masters-athletics.org/records_output/rec_list_outdoor_m.php


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Mort82
Cool Runner
posted Dec-05-2006 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mort82   Click Here to Email Mort82     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So I just found this thread and am excited to read more later. Right now I'm just going to say that I've been running for about a year or so just to stay fit. Within the last few months I've been trying to pick up the pace a little bit and 'train' if you will for races.

I average about 20 miles per week. The first/last 5k I ran was on Thanksgiving day of 2006 I ran it in 22:57. The first mile marker my watch said 6:24. The second mile marker my watch said 14:51. Then finally on the third mile I tried to suck it up, but couldn't. It was about 30 degrees, clear day, sun was out on the flat crushed limestone course.

I wish I could figure out how to show you guys my running log. I generally have to run on the Dreadmill, but have gotten used to it. I run about 3-5 miles each run, don't stop, and try to do a Fatlek run once a week, and a long run on the weekends. My long runs are at about a 9:30 pace. My shorter runs are around a 8:20 pace...

Any input or hints/tips would be greatly appreciated.

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