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Sub 20-Minute 5-K


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Author Topic:   Sub 20-Minute 5-K
MichiganFlyer
Cool Runner
posted Sep-11-2006 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Week 5

Tuesday, Sept. 5...5k in 19:47. While distance may be a little short. I estimate it could be about 40 seconds short of a 5k so my 5k time would be about 20:27 which would be an all-time record by 3 seconds. I ran this alone so I hope I would go faster in a race with the adrenaline. My mile splits were awesome at 6:22, 6:26 and 6:24. I felt strong during the 2nd mile. Ran total of 5.9 miles.

Wed, Sep.6 ..my hip is sore...yesterdays run really left me aching. REST day.

Thurs, Sept.7 ... 6 miles in 49:08 (8:11 pace)

Fri, Sept. 8...8 miles in 65:05 (8:08 pace)

Sat, Sep.9....4 miles on treadmill and new shoes (ASICS Gel) about 9:20 pace...ran 1 mile on incline approx 3-4%

Sun, Sept. 10..Ran record long 12 miles in 98:16 (8:11 pace) this was remarkably easy...not very many aches after either.

Race in 13 days (Sept. 24)

Fri, Sept. 8

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joev9
Cool Runner
posted Sep-11-2006 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
michigan, do you use a HR monitor on your runs? seems like our 5K times are pretty close, but you are running your non-speed runs about 30 seconds per mile faster than i am. i usually do my "regular" and long runs at about 8:30 to 8:50 mpm, whereas you are at 8:08 and 8:11. i wonder what your HR is at those paces? i know if i were doing my non-speed runs at 8:10 mpm i would be tired all the time and injured in no time at all. last year, i ran all my runs at a minimum 80 to 90% MHR and got hurt really quick. this year, i have tried to keep the majority of my miles in the 70 to 80% range and have stayed relatively healthy and have seen my pace drop (9:30 to 8:40) quite a bit at that 70 to 80% effort.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-11-2006 10:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by joev9:
michigan, do you use a HR monitor on your runs? seems like our 5K times are pretty close, but you are running your non-speed runs about 30 seconds per mile faster than i am. i usually do my "regular" and long runs at about 8:30 to 8:50 mpm, whereas you are at 8:08 and 8:11. i wonder what your HR is at those paces? i know if i were doing my non-speed runs at 8:10 mpm i would be tired all the time and injured in no time at all. last year, i ran all my runs at a minimum 80 to 90% MHR and got hurt really quick. this year, i have tried to keep the majority of my miles in the 70 to 80% range and have stayed relatively healthy and have seen my pace drop (9:30 to 8:40) quite a bit at that 70 to 80% effort.

No...I believe I am around 150-160 heart rate (probably 80-85%) on my easy runs. I ran a 5k on the treadmill all out about 8 weeks ago in 20:30 and plugged those numbers into McMillan calculator and it says I should be running miles around 8:28 pace. I attempted this for the 1st 4 weeks of training and was a litte fast (probably around 8:20 pace)...but with my races getting closer I am trying for 8:18 pace (now I am around 8:15 pace as a couple of my miles are probably about 20 seconds short of a full mile).I am not getting hurt but feeling burnt out probably is true. As long as I don't get hurt I believe the faster miles are more a benefit than doing 8:30 miles. I tried to run 8:30 miles and it was not easy as I get caught up in staying just ahead of pace.

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joev9
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posted Sep-11-2006 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MichiganFlyer:
As long as I don't get hurt I believe the faster miles are more a benefit than doing 8:30 miles.

I used to think this too, but have come around to the value of miles at a lower percent (~70%) of MHR. I am sure there are others here who can explain it better, but this is how I look at it: if I can improve my pace at 70% MHR by 30 seconds per mile, that is going to allow me to run a longer portion of a 5K race aerobically before things switch over to the dreaded anaerobic system. I *think* if I can do that, I will be able to improve my 5K time even more than if I just improved my VO2max and LT.

Another way to look at it is if you are doing your regular runs at 8:10 mpm and that is around 70% of your MHR, then you should be headed for a big PR on the 24th...

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-11-2006 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That could be true. I am sure some of the experts on here could say for sure. The way I see it they want you to run at 8:45 per mile pace because you will complete more miles at that pace then you could complete at 8:15 pace.

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joev9
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posted Sep-15-2006 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Goal race on Sunday. Just found out I am starting in Wave 1 (of 4) and am now worried about going out too fast. Would have preferred to be one of the faster runners in my wave rather than one of the slowest. Oh well. Need to stay in the back and let the horses run so I don't screw up my race plan...

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dcv2002
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posted Sep-15-2006 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dcv2002     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, triple post. Don't line up in front. Stay a couple of people back. Im running a 10k tomorrow and there are 15 waves. I'm in the 2nd wave (37:00-43:00) that has about 180 people. Wave starts are definitely interesting.

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joev9
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posted Sep-15-2006 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
well, i won't be in front since the kenyans and top U.S. runners will be there. just did some research and my "seed" time is about in the 60th percentile of the wave i am in, so there will be runners at my pace and a little slower. just need to dial in who they are and go with them for.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-15-2006 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey joe.

Well I have a 5k in 9 days. I am starting to go over my plan to run this thing. My goal is 19:59 or under of course but I will not run the 1st half mile too fast. I must save it for the final 4 km. Yesterday I ran five 800 meter intervals quite fast (average about 3:05) on the road with rest jogs in between. I quickly found out that going hard the 1st half mile will be murder on me later on.

I think I will get to the race very early and run at least 2 miles of warmup (8:30 per mile pace or so)..probably the 1st half mile warmup will be 9:30 per mile pace then slowly pick it up every 1/2 mile to 8:00 pace at the end of warmup. I will do lots of stretches and laying on the grass. A few striders before the race. I believe there will be around 300 runners and I hope to finish in the top 40 or so. There is a 10 mile run at the same time (actually starts 10 minutes before my run) so the better runners will be running in that.

I am thinking about an opening 1/2 mile in under 3:20 (3:18 or so would be perfect). I will have to base this on perceived effort and I hope the race adrenaline will make this a piece of cake. Looking for a mile time around 6:35 and also thinking this will keep me very fresh for the remainder of the race. If I get to 1 mile in 6:35 and feel good it should be a very good day for me. Of course I don't know what to expect with no races in over a year...I could just as easily hit a 6:20 or under opening mile. So I will have to see what my 1st mile yields and adjust from there. Expect everything I guess. The key though is too keep something left for miles 2 and 3...if I hit mile 1 in 6:40 and feel good I still will be on target to break my all time 5k record of 20:30.

Mile 2 I am looking to increase the effort some. When I get to the halfway mark of the race I still expect to feel strong. If I feel strong at the halfway mark lookout! I will then start to test myself or so I hope. My goal time for 2 miles is 13:10 or under. Last year I was consistent in my races at 2 miles (13:26, 13:26, 13:27).

The 3rd mile I will not try and push myself to the line dead tired. Instead I will try to keep pace for the 1st half mile...with 1/2 mile left in the race that is when I am hoping to turn the feet over and pick up the pace. I hope to run the last half mile in close to 3:00. So we will see.

My goal is to run under 20:00 but I realize that is alot of pressure for the 1st race. Lets see how this goes 1st. I think I have a 33% chance of running a sub 20. My secondary goal is to run 20:29 or less as that would be a PR. I estimate I have a 75% chance of doing that. My final goal would be to run 20:40 or better (my best time since high school in 1990)...if I don't beat that time I would be dissapointed.

But if I do not get any new injuries and do not have any commitments I want to run another 5k the following week Sunday October 1st.

Right now I think I have a 50% chance of beating 20:20. But thats why you run races so you can have the clock give you your acurate reading. I am ready!

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joev9
Cool Runner
posted Sep-15-2006 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my first mile goal is 6:45 (my PR is 21:11 so I am really planning for a 20:30 race). if my first mile is 6:30, i WILL NOT panic, nor will i panic if my first mile is 6:50. the only problem with this route, which is very fast, is that the only downhill portion is the first 300 meters and the only uphill is the last 300 meters (same hill). the goal of the 2nd mile will be to CONCENTRATE and FOCUS and stay on pace, 3rd mile will be similar to yours, pick it up ever so slightly for the first 1/2, then let it rip for the last 0.7 miles. my recent 5 and 8Ks had significantly slower middle miles due to loss of focus (started thinking that it hurt too much and that i really didn't need to PR this particular race and stuff like that). one of the 8Ks i was running alone for miles 3 and 4 and really slowed down. this won't be a problem at this race as it is huge.

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dcv2002
Cool Runner
posted Sep-15-2006 04:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dcv2002     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by joev9:
my first mile goal is 6:45 (my PR is 21:11 so I am really planning for a 20:30 race). if my first mile is 6:30, i WILL NOT panic, nor will i panic if my first mile is 6:50. the only problem with this route, which is very fast, is that the only downhill portion is the first 300 meters and the only uphill is the last 300 meters (same hill). the goal of the 2nd mile will be to CONCENTRATE and FOCUS and stay on pace, 3rd mile will be similar to yours, pick it up ever so slightly for the first 1/2, then let it rip for the last 0.7 miles. my recent 5 and 8Ks had significantly slower middle miles due to loss of focus (started thinking that it hurt too much and that i really didn't need to PR this particular race and stuff like that). one of the 8Ks i was running alone for miles 3 and 4 and really slowed down. this won't be a problem at this race as it is huge.

My last 5k (20:11). I definitely went out to fast (6:09). Then ran 6:39, 6:45, 38. It was a basically flat race.

Are you running the CVS 5k USA Championships up in RI? Yeah, don't stick with the leaders they'll almost be done when you are at mile 2 How many people are in that race?? How many people per wave??

My 10K tomorrow which has some top US runners also, breaks up the race of ~3,600 into 15 waves, so there ain't that many per wave. The first wave of top runners might have 60-80. The next 180. Wave running is wierd as you pass people who started in front of you, or get passed by later runnerrs. And this 10k uses a different color bib for each wave so its a rainbow of colors.

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fireonthemountain
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posted Sep-16-2006 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fireonthemountain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I too am aiming to beat that 20 minute mark.

I ran 5k today. Did the first mile in 6 minutes flat. After that, I don't know. It was a hilly course (big incline after the first mile, and rolling hills afterward). My total: 20:10. I just need to shave 10 seconds off!

I'm curious to see what the difference would be on a flat course...

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Southern Man
Cool Runner
posted Sep-16-2006 05:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Southern Man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fireonthemountain:
I too am aiming to beat that 20 minute mark.

I ran 5k today. Did the first mile in 6 minutes flat. After that, I don't know. It was a hilly course (big incline after the first mile, and rolling hills afterward). My total: 20:10. I just need to shave 10 seconds off!

I'm curious to see what the difference would be on a flat course...



A more even pace would net you those 10 secs, unless the hills counted for all of that. That's a big difference, though, 20:00 is 6:26 pace.

Southern Man

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dcv2002
Cool Runner
posted Sep-16-2006 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dcv2002     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I didn't break 40:00 for the 10k today, or 20 minutes for the 5k. Came through the 5k in 20:19. Argh. Maybe next year.

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MichiganFlyer
Cool Runner
posted Sep-18-2006 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Week 6

Monday...REST

Tuesday, Sep. 12... 5 miles at 8:13 pace....ran about 8:30 pace most miles but ran 2 quarters hard (1:34 and 1:29) midway in the race.

Wed, Sept. 13....5 miles

Thur, Sept. 14....4.75 miles...5 by half mile on the road....approx average 3:05 per 1/2 mile....this was difficult.

Fri, Sept. 15...I hurt from yesterday...slept in and ran 2.25 on the treadmill in 17:44

Sat, Sept. 16.... 5 miles on the treadmill

Sun, Sept. 17... 11 miles on treadmill...ran 5 in 43:57...drank some water and ran 6 more.

Race in 6 days.

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joev9
Cool Runner
posted Sep-18-2006 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for joev9     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dcv2002:
Are you running the CVS 5k USA Championships up in RI? Yeah, don't stick with the leaders they'll almost be done when you are at mile 2 How many people are in that race?? How many people per wave??

Yup, that's the one. The race had a little over 3,000 so it was about 800 per wave. Here is my race report.

Had a goal of 20:30 (PR of 21:11 back in July). Been running well, so I thought it was possible. Started in Wave 1, which had me nervous at first but was where I belonged after all. The weather was a little warmer than predicted, about 74 degrees with full sun and some humidity. Not ideal but not scorching. First mile goal was 6:45 but hit the one mile in 6:28. Must note here that the first 1/4 mile is a pretty good downhill and I hit the 1/4 in 1:30 (6:00 pace). Didn't panic because I was feeling good. Tried to bear down for Mile 2 and hit the 2 mile mark at 13:08 (6:40 2nd mile), right near my 13:10 goal. Still felt good with no muscle tweaks. Really sweating and breathing at 2 but not dying. Tried to pick it up with about 3/4 miles to go but really just held my speed. Came around the corner and started up the hill at the finish (same hill as the start). Hit mile 3 in 19:56 (6:48 3rd mile) and after the hill had little left to charge to the line and finished at 20:38.

Analysis: Felt really good about this race even though I missed my goal by 8 seconds. The weather I think played a role as I was totally soaked with sweat at the end of the race. The splits, though not quite even, are pretty good for this route with the downhill start and uphill finish. Without those, it would have been pretty close to even. Now, with a 20:xx time, I feel like I belong in this thread. Next 5K isn't till November though, so got time to train my butt off.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-18-2006 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice going Joe!

My best time from last year was 20:41 so you beat me.
I have to come through now and lower my PR on Sunday.
I don't think your 1st mile was too fast either. Last year I ran a 6:25 opening mile in 1 race (mostly downhill) but ran the 2nd mile in 7:01 in that race. Your splits are pretty even considering mile 1 was downhill.

I believe my course is going to be very flat. The weather is going to be in the upper 50's with a chance of rain for me....I have trained hard and am in a good position to attempt a sub 20 now.

20:38 has a nice ring to it....keep running smart!

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fireonthemountain
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posted Sep-18-2006 07:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fireonthemountain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"A more even pace would net you those 10 secs, unless the hills counted for all of that. That's a big difference, though, 20:00 is 6:26 pace"

Ya...I knew I needed a good time for the first mile, as it was the only flat portion of the course -- I felt I needed an edge on the others. But I probably pushed it too much, and ran at about a 7 minute pace for the second mile. Live and learn.

Thanks

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-20-2006 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have noticed I seem to be obsessing about the sub 20 5k on this board. I have also noticed that many posters on this board have posted a few times and then never come back so I assume most never reached their sub 20 goal. The ones who did beat the goal did not post on here daily (so they must not have obsessed about it) and they only as an after thought came back to this board to say they broke 20 without too much fanfare about breaking it.

I have been posting my training on here in hopes it will help others who come along realize what they must do to break 20 (or at least come close to 20).

I am trying to realize if I don't break 20 that I am still a good runner. I will just have to put more training in during next Spring (I plan to take October - December off from running...actually I will probably still run but 10 miles a week or so)

I feel very good right now though during my taper week. Some sore muscles but during my training I was sore often as the 30-35 miles per week doesn't give one much chance to recover. Everything looks good for Sunday's race...temps in upper 50s with winds at 10 MPH or less...a nice flat trail run on asphalt.

So I must stick to my plan. Mile 1 hold back...Mile 2 (run comfortably hard) focus on runners in front of me and try to catch and pass them...Mile 3 the effort increases with each quarter mile...the last 400 meters of the race I will run very hard.

I can't wait to post my race report!

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brook trout
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posted Sep-20-2006 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brook trout   Click Here to Email brook trout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michigan,

I think you're borderline. You have a chance, but you might need a little more time. Don't get too caught up in this upcoming race -- relax -- don't overthink it. All of your plans will go out the window when it starts really hurting at the half way point, anyways

When I was wound up about running the sub-20, my first race out, I bombed - got a 20:51. I was so keyed up, I ran the first mile in 5:58 and had to jog after the second mile.

I got it on my second race - barely, 19:59. I ran a much more relaxed, controlled race. I was actually slightly over pace for the first two miles, and probably much of the third, but like your plan, I salvaged the effort with a strong kick in the last 800 meters or so.

It's really key to relax. Run right up to the point where it's starting to hurt and then back off. Bounce off of the pain threshold for the first two miles - your breathing should be a hard 2-2 - if you get into that 2-1 rythm (exhaling as hard and fast as you can so that you can gulp in another lungful) before the two mile marker, I think your overall time will suffer. Don't let it get to that point, even if you're behind schedule.

Don't surge with other runners. Run your pace. You're not looking to win, here - you're looking to run even splits and dole out your effort intelligently to hit a time goal. If you run evenly, you won't get passed much after the first half mile, but you'll be passing lots of other folks. In either case, it's important to not press to keep up with the guys just in front of you near the beginning of the race. Let 'em go. Either they're running over there head and you'll catch them later or they're better.

Don't hammer the hills, especially at the beginning. Towards the end, let it all hang out, but in the beginning, don't press on the hills - let your pace drop as you maintain an even effort.

You can make up a ton of time in that last stretch if you're speed is decent and you're not completely discouraged by running over your head for the first two miles. If you're baked at mile 2, all this talk about speeding up, running strong, surging etc. will be out there window. Run at a pace you can handle for the first two, or you'll be seriously comtemplating feigning a pulled hammy and walking, in the third. In that state, it's all you can do to keep running at any pace - speeding up will be unthinkable!

Do you have other races lined up after this upcoming race, or are all your eggs in that basket?

PS - I've run 4 sub-20s in a row since I last posted to this thread, but I still lurk.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-20-2006 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the good advice BrookTrout.

I will try to run the 1st 2 miles under control and then surge for mile 3 (I am fairly confident I can do that as I have run several 10-12 mile runs the past few weeks). That makes me feel so much better....I ran a test 5k about 2 weeks ago by myself where I was around a 6:30 mile and felt strong...I hit 1.5 miles in around 9:45 and still felt amazingly strong. There I asked myself "Should I speed up now? I can easily put the hammer down as my endurance feels great"

I put in more effort at that point and came to the 2 mile mark under 13:00...the last mile was tough but manageable. I timed myself at 19:12 for 3 miles but I believe my distance was a little off, probably was a 5k time of around 20:20.

You are saying I should wait till 2 miles to go to the pain threshold...that will make me feel good at the starting line knowing I won't have to really hurt until the last 7 minutes of the race. Plus I will be secretly smiling thinking I will have alot left at the end to catch some runners who start out fast.

Anyhow I just went to the race course and walked it today. It is pretty nice and flat...some downhills and minor uphills but basically flat. There are 2 boardwalks that wind around that I am not too fond of. The 1st quarter mile is downhill....at about 3/4 mile you come back up that hill so this is what I wonder about now...I can't run this uphill or downhill too fast.

I am thinking about running a 5k on October 1st if I can recover in time....another one on October 15...so yes I am thinking about running 3 in close proximity.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-22-2006 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well 4 miles this morning in 32:20.

I felt great. I don't want to think about 20 minutes anymore. I am just going to run the race Sunday and try to run a good race. If I am in shape to break 20 I will do so, if not I won't lose any sleep over it. I will eventually crack the big 20.

My next post should be my race report.

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brook trout
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posted Sep-22-2006 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for brook trout   Click Here to Email brook trout     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Relax and run hard, but not pressing. Adrenaline will take care of your pace. Key is to not ruin your race in the first mile. Good luck!

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Tchuck
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posted Sep-23-2006 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tchuck   Click Here to Email Tchuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Michigan,

You will do fine. I ran a 5K race this morning. Ran a 19:56. 3 weeks ago I did a 19:52. 2 months ago I did a 19:59.

The biggest thing I have learned is to consciously hold back the first mile. I started todays race at front and 300 yds out I was in 7th place. By the 1/4 mile point 20 racers passed me and I was around 27th place. By one mile I was back in 14th place as the fast starters faded. I passed 3 more over the next mile and ended up 11th. Not one person passed me. My splits (on Garmin) were 6:26, 6:27, 6:21 and a hard sprint at end had me avg. a 6:21 pace per Garmin. But the race came out at 3.14 miles on my Garmin so my official pace was 6:25.

The Garmin is a nice tool to know your pace. It shows your running pace while running. At 200yds I was at 5:50 pace feeling fine but caught myself and slowed. But by slowing, I was still cruising at close to my goal pace and it felt easy. Did first 1/2 mile at 3:10.

It is after mile one when the work occurs. Mile 2 I held pace even though I felt like I had to work harder to do so. Mile 3 I wanted to pick it up but felt like it was a tad early but I did pick it up a tad but saw my HR was 176 (my max is 183) and new I was at my limit. Last 1/3 mile I was laboring but pushed a bit harder. Last .14 I flew in with a big sprint and hit max HR of 183. This last surge actually cut off about 5 sec. off my avg pace.

For me it was a good race but I am finding that on my 20 miles per week, I can't get to 19:30. I ran a 41:03 10K this year and a 41:20 2 weeks ago and a 1:31.26 half marathon in late May. These times make me feel like I should run faster in a 5K but no go. I will try one more time this year in 4 weeks and have a 10K in between. I am hoping the racing will help my speed and the cooler weather in 1 month may make a difference. I felt like today was fairly ideal weather at 58 degrees and no wind - even though I prefer 40-50 degrees.

You will do fine. It will be a good experience for you and I think you have a darn good shot of doing it but don't be discouraged if you don't. Run smart. Good luck.

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MichiganFlyer
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posted Sep-25-2006 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichiganFlyer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well my 1st race report of the year is now here:

Its very long


http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/009141.shtml

I ran a disapointing time of 21:20. I chalk that up to inexperience in racing. I thought the race adrenaline would push me to a good 1st mile time of 6:30 so I held back too much and had a 6:46 mile time.

Mile 2 was a poor 7:03.

I felt very good the whole race so I definately ran it too slow. I did earn my 1st medal (3rd place AG) out of 8 runners so I am happy for that.

I hope to run another 5k next Sunday. I don't know if this course was slow or not it seemed flat and fast I just ran it poorly. Learn lessons from racing I guess...next time I will start out faster.

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