posted Aug-16-2005 11:16 PM            

So does this mean that you're going to avoid responding to the rest of the post -- the statements you made about Nike being the corporate sponsor of the Olympics, and Salazar being in charge of "all" of the Olympic runners?

You're smoothe. I gotta give you credit for that.

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posted Aug-17-2005 12:25 AM               

So to have any testing access to such level access athletes, Nike had to give permission. Salazar, as I was informed, was responsible for permission to have any access to any runners for any performance research.

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posted Aug-17-2005 07:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sport jester:
At the time of my running with Salazar, Nike by contract with the Olympics has research supervision of any testing with athletes regardless of sport they were official sponsors of. Track and Field was just one of them.

So to have any testing access to such level access athletes, Nike had to give permission. Salazar, as I was informed, was responsible for permission to have any access to any runners for any performance research.

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Are you suggesting Salazar had responsibility for ALL athletes, including all nations???

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posted Aug-17-2005 06:53 PM               

If you've been following the posts, being here is my attempt to share my running technique with runners openly. I would love to find runners who want to become betters by improving their speed through improving their running biomechanic efficiency.

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posted Aug-17-2005 09:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by leon2:
It's odd that the only thing you responded to was the last statement of the post.

So does this mean that you're going to avoid responding to the rest of the post -- the statements you made about Nike being the corporate sponsor of the Olympics, and Salazar being in charge of "all" of the Olympic runners?

You're smoothe. I gotta give you credit for that.

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Smooth that's for sure. Interesting to see what the nike boys and Al have to say about him. I "googled" his name. I 'm a bit of a skeptic to say the least. Interesting theory. Tight Kenyan
runners. Different.

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posted Aug-18-2005 07:24 AM               

quote:

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I would love to find runners who want to become betters by improving their speed through improving their running biomechanic efficiency.

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posted Aug-18-2005 11:59 AM            

The fastest 200/400 sprinter in the world had a more upright
form, but I don't know where his power/speed was generated.

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posted Aug-18-2005 03:08 PM               

“I was faster with a forward lean, but I could see how it was less
stressful running straight up. You probably have to expend
energy tensing greater groups of muscles on a forward lean.
The fastest 200/400 sprinter in the world had a more upright
form, but I don't know where his power/speed was generated.”

A gracious thank you for actually asking and trying my technique ideas. Given the flaming (update: flame throwing) on this forum, you're the first to actually ask me what I teach and for that I'm appreciative.

Please don’t expect higher speed with one lesson. First off, you’re learning to use muscles that you haven’t integrated into your running biomechanics. They lack strength and coordination and it will be a limit until you adapt the strength training methodology to apply them. You’ll become faster as you recognize as you gain confidence that it’s a more comfortable way to run. And what you learned was the introductory aspect of what I teach.

The human body has to be in balance. And as you stated, it does take more energy remaining upright with greater forward lean. I wrote in an earlier post of the torso buckling forward upon impact. To prevent that, muscles have to fire to keep the torso upright. It isn’t a big subject for running books, so it was quickly ridiculed. What you proved to yourself is that it is relevant and it makes running more comfortable and thus one step in becoming more efficient.

Since I posted that most of my students are rehab oriented, it helps back surgery patients walk with greater comfort as well.

And the more forward lean a runner has, the greater stress loads to the muscles of the spine. What coaching doesn’t take into account is that forward lean also limits your natural stride length.

What forward lean does give you is greater power to accelerate, but it limits potential top speed. No different than gears in a car, you also have to adjust your running biomechanics to shift gears from accelerating to maximizing speed.

That’s why sprinters transition from maximum lean in the blocks to run so upright. They alter from maximum acelleration to maximum stride length. But an important aspect is that by keeping your torso upright and weight on your push off leg for as long as possible, reduces the impact weight to their next step and preparatory contractions to the spinal muscle structure and the legs from impact. Energy saved is energy applied to higher speed.

The next alteration is what I stated that the gearshift in posture is how far apart your feet are when you push off. Coaches have no term for it but biologists do. They call it an animal's running guage. Like the distance between rails of a railroad, runners are no different.

Examine the wearpatterns of a treadmill and you'll get the visuals to the description.

The most efficient runners run one foot in front of the other, and you probably don’t. So leaning back and letting your hips drop a little closer to the ground like you’re beginning to sit down, while pulling your weight, gives your legs the opportunity to roll inwards towards your body centerline. Think of running on a tightrope. That's your biomechanic goal.

As an idea I teach students is to think that you’re not running on your legs, but with them. The idea is to introduce you to improving your natural momentum. That’s the core idea of the Kenyan women, and you get it.

Let me know how that works.

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posted Aug-18-2005 03:54 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by sport jester:
...Cheap shots are easy, but then again, I have yet to meet a movie critic that has ever made a movie......
...
Considering that Olympic medals are determined by .01 second differences, I'm offering a different perspective for competitive runners (hence the web site name). EVERY runner I have ever taught, has improved their peak speed by 20% with less than an hour of teaching.

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It seems like it's a good idea to avoid fording rivers of crap, but I'll give it a try.

I'm not a great runner, but I do OK. Please, come and spend an hour with me. I might not make it to world class level as a sprinter, but in almost any other distance, you could make me into one of the very best runners in the world? Really? You make me 20% faster, then over the next 6-8 years, maybe I can work hard my own way, and take off another 1 to 2%, and break world records all over the place. I'm a slow learner, though, so it might take everyone else less than an hour, but you might consider the slim possibility that it will take me more than an hour.

Of course, we could consider another possibility. I don't think there is anything revolutionary about "your technique." I'm not sure if you have much, or anything, to contribute to the world of true competitive running. Have you ever noticed that world class sprinters have nearly identical "technique" - fascinating. In fact, if you go up the distance, there is a certain natural technique that people use that is as efficient as it can be to move at that speed and at that distance. It varies very very little among top-tier runners.

Running faster is a way to develop that technique. Intervals. Races. Tempo runs. All teach the body economy over the distance, which means you have more energy to put into running, hence faster running. Sure - running economy is important. Efficiency is important. Mechanical efficiency, and also internal energy shuttling efficiency. More running, and more faster running will teach you to run faster. Aside from gross mistakes in form - what can you do?

But I'm not sure you are teaching anything new, and I'm fairly sure you have nothing to teach to runners who are already at the top of the game, and there is a slight possibility that you have nothing to teach at all, and are just a nut.

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posted Aug-18-2005 04:00 PM               

How far do you live from Portland Oregon? I'd gladly give you an hour in person and show you why 20% faster is easily viable. If I can teach you to walk 20% faster, running 20% faster is easy.

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posted Aug-18-2005 04:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sport jester:

How far do you live from Portland Oregon?

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The reason I ask is because I'm wondering, why aren't you on tour, giving clinics around the country? Or at least coaches at DI schools would be inviting you to spend an hour to help make their runners faster.

Instead you spend your time on this message board. This is Jeff Galloway's territory. Didn't you know that?

I'm frequently over at letsrun.com, and I have never seen this technique mentioned over there. You would have a much larger audience if you posted there. You would have a chance to discuss this with world class coaches and athletes. Isn't that what you want?

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posted Aug-18-2005 04:42 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by sport jester:
Hey Obsessor,

How far do you live from Portland Oregon? I'd gladly give you an hour in person and show you why 20% faster is easily viable. If I can teach you to walk 20% faster, running 20% faster is easy.

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Far - but if I make it out there, I'd probably try anything. I'll make it out there some time. Honestly, I will try almost anything. I can say with some confidence, though, that you will not take me to a 2:08 marathon with one hour of training. It would not bea easy. I am happy, so happy, for every minute I can take off. You've got to shake this self-created myth of "20% faster" - it can't be true for all people. Get off it. Do some artful backpedaling, throw in some caveats, something, man.

You could very easily teach me to walk faster - In fact, I could teach me, because I'm a really slow walker, and I don't really have a desire to walk fast at all. My walking speed has gone down as my running speed has gone up. Must be all the pointless miles and intervals taking their toll.

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posted Aug-18-2005 04:59 PM            

Man, this guy is even better than Richard. Admit it: you love reading the car wreck that is this thread, and others like it.

My favourite part was when jester, running with Salazar while engaged in a serious argument, caused Salazar to become upset...and walk away.

[This message has been edited by aurang (edited Aug-18-2005).]

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posted Aug-18-2005 05:21 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by aurang:
...My favourite part was when jester, running with Salazar while engaged in a serious argument, caused Salazar to become upset...and walk away.

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... yeah, and that is proof that the theory can't be disproven. Man, it's like a magnet.

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posted Aug-18-2005 06:04 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by sport jester:
Hey Obsessor,
How far do you live from Portland Oregon? I'd gladly give you an hour in person and show you why 20% faster is easily viable. If I can teach you to walk 20% faster, running 20% faster is easy.

---

Take C - R - A - Z - Y somewhere else!

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posted Aug-18-2005 08:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sport jester:

Oh, and the Office of Science and Technology has offered me a grant to train full time to compete and prove my technique in competition. However to get the money, I need Salazar's signature....

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I also don't see the connection between running and speed skating.

quote:

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The following link is to one of my speed skating student Sandy Snakenberg, world record holder in endurance skating. What you'll see is that he doesn't use a counterbalance arm swing to skate either. He holds his hands in, "prayer position," for improved balance. Skaters reach speeds of 30mph on wheels, and 40mph on ice skates, so getting rid of counterbalance arm swing for them is an aerodynamic advantage and the first sport I created a new technique for.
http://www.speedsk8in.com/articles/feb2000/world-records.htm

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sport jester:

The most efficient runners run one foot in front of the other, and you probably don’t. So leaning back and letting your hips drop a little closer to the ground like you’re beginning to sit down, while pulling your weight, gives your legs the opportunity to roll inwards towards your body centerline. Think of running on a tightrope. That's your biomechanic goal.

---

I don't know anything about speed skating. But I have watched a few of the races on TV. It appears that it is necessary to skate with one foot in front of the other because skaters need to be able to turn the corners. It's difficult to turn a corner on skates in any other way. Also, skaters are able to glide on one foot.

Runners don't glide on one foot.

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posted Aug-18-2005 09:36 PM               

I took those and applied them to running.

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posted Aug-18-2005 09:47 PM               

If I CAN do it, then I'd hope you'd come here and post that as well. I live in Portland, but will travel within means.

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posted Aug-18-2005 09:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sport jester:
Connections to speed skating. First, they're under the same principles of motion that a runner is with the same measurements that define efficient skating.

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I'm still puzzled about the need to get Salazar's signature to get a grant. Can you explain that? Because it doesn't make any sense. And you haven't answered the other question, which I think is just as important.

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posted Aug-19-2005 09:15 AM            

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posted Aug-19-2005 09:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aurang:
Leon, deoxidants contained within supine coefficients can be used to biochemically recombinate the halitosis that has occurred. To requiver the coefficients, you simply over the supine to ethylene. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand. The end result is almost always the resustenance of pro bono balancing.

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LOL!!!!

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posted Aug-19-2005 04:10 PM               

There are four measurements that can be altered to improve a runner's abiltiy derived from speed skating. First is distance from centerline. The further distance of your feet and pushoff is from centerline, the shorter your stride length.

In skating, the closer your skate is to centerline the longer pushoff you have and thus greater stride length. It doesn't matter if you're pushing out to skate, or rearward to run.

Second is pronation. This measurement determines the extent of lateral sway with each step. I posted earlier that humans don't run straight and of course was ridiculed. If we did run straight, then the term wouldn't exist.

Lateral sway is significant with skaters but runners are slower and don't take much importance with it. I do.

Third is equality of measurements. The human body is naturally stronger on one side than the other. This plays a role in how efficient each step is taken. If your pushoff points differ because of your natural compensation for that inequality, then it alters how balanced your legs are in motion. The greater the strength differential, the slower you skate or run, and the higher your propensity towards injury.

Fourth is counterbalance arm swing. Getting rid of it with skating is important due to the aerodynamics of it. At 40mph, swinging your arm into the wind and across the body is drag.

Hockey players swing both arms, while speed skaters use one arm because it's faster, What Sandy proved is that no arm swing is even faster because he's better balanced.

Skaters use arm swing to counter Lateral sway and it's determined by forward lean of the skater as well as a runner.

I used the analogy that an out of balance engine will tear itself apart at high rpm's. A runner is no different. Watch a runner with a ponytail. If you notice, it's very rare that their tail will swing equally from side to side.

If each pushoff is unequal, then energy is wasted in trying to compensate for that and your natural biomechanics will be limited in peak speed.

The reason I brought up skating is that the same principles of forward motion apply to runners as well. Some coaches incourage cross training, I cross coach. Different sports have different solutions to the same problems and highlight solutions that other sport specialists wouldn't consider important or valid. I'll learn from anyone or anything that can teach me an alternate way to view a problem or an alternate way to solve a problem.

The Salazar question is/was his position at Nike. He was given the directive of developing a caucasian running team by Phil Knight to retake the dominance that was lost to Kenya's runners.

I sent him a copy of the same article from the New York Times that my article links to. The idea was simple: understanding their biomechanics of how Kenyans run would offer the training means to understand their limitations.

As to the sponsorship deal that Nike has/had with US Track and Field: in exchange for funding, no research could be done in running without their consent. Salazar was that decision maker. So in order to gain access to team members, I demonstrated my technique with the interest in offering how the Kenyan's can be beat. That acess was refused.

And so I'm here. I know my work is valid, and with Fredurie trying my ideas and discovering how it works, for me is proof that I'm on the right track.

To that end, I offer to give someone an hour of my time so that they can validate for you and everyone else that what I teach is true. I'm looking forward to the first person that takes me up on it.

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posted Aug-20-2005 07:17 AM            

What I don't understand is....

there are a lot of runners using drugs to enhance performance. Why would they risk this if they could get a bigger boost by following your advice?

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posted Aug-20-2005 10:05 AM               

quote:

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What Sandy proved is that no arm swing is even faster because he's better balanced.

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posted Aug-20-2005 11:49 AM            

You claim that you can teach a person to run "20% faster" in less than an hour of training.

quote:

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Originally posted by sport jester:
Every racer I've trained in person I've taught to run at least 20% faster in less than an hour of training.

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It's not clear what you mean by "racer". For what race distances are you referring to? Any distance? Is this something that will help only milers? Or will it work for marathoners as well?

In other words, are you saying that you can teach an athlete to run the marathon 20% faster in less than an hour of training? (Assuming, of course, that the person is properly trained to run a marathon.)

If Paul Tergat took you up on your offer, are you saying that you could train him to run 20% faster ... in just an hour? If not 20%, how much faster could you teach him to run (what percentage)?

Could you train Asafa Powell to run the 100 meters 20% faster in just an hour?

The point I'm trying to make is that there must be some restrictions. What restrictions are there to the claims you make? And if there are restrictions, shouldn't you tell people what they are up front before they decide to work with you?

Can you answer those questions?

[This message has been edited by leon2 (edited Aug-20-2005).]

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