| Author |
Topic: Splenda.. safe or not? |
LeftRightRepeat
Cool Runner |
 posted Jun-08-2005 03:15 PM
   
You guys are funny. Ironically, this thread reminds me of the movie "Marathon Man" with Dustin Hoffman: quote:
Christian Szell: Is it safe?... Is it safe?
Babe: You're talking to me?
Christian Szell: Is it safe?
Babe: Is what safe?
Christian Szell: Is it safe?
Babe: I don't know what you mean. I can't tell you something's safe or not, unless I know specifically what you're talking about.
Christian Szell: Is it safe?
Babe: Tell me what the "it" refers to.
Christian Szell: Is it safe?
Babe: Yes, it's safe, it's very safe, it's so safe you wouldn't believe it.
Christian Szell: Is it safe?
Babe: No. It's not safe, it's... very dangerous, be careful.
So... Is it safe? ------------------
->>>John<<<-
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TechTee
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-08-2005 03:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dr GeneMachine:
Well, I guess cancer is on the rise because it is basically a disease of age. Cancer is caused by the accumulation of DNA damage which interferes with the growth regulation of cells. This accumulation takes time, so your cancer risk rises with age. As the general live expectancy rises and the age distribution of the population gets increasingly slanted to the old side, the prevalence of cancer will rise to.
Still, I'd like to see a cite. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that yes, decades ago, all types of cancer WERE on the rise, because of the reason you stated above.
However, I believe that now, http://www.nci.nih.gov/newscenter/pressreleases/ReportNation2004release except for some specific cancers, like lung and skin cancers, that are largely preventable, cancer, in general, in North America, is on the decline, or has leveled off. For the moment, that is. My point to the original request for a cite was, that people go and make statements like "cancer is on the rise" and "splenda is bad for you because I read it on the internet" without having any real information to back up their claims. ------------------
My User Profile Jeff
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jenuin1
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-08-2005 04:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gebuh:
cool- now we can add it to the list of all the other safe stuff foisted upon us:bha/bht
nitrates
hydrogenated oils
pesticides
bgh
antibiotics
aspartame
highly refined/processed anything
irradiation- oh I'm sorry- cold pasturization
Uh, I can see this big picture. I think this is a good point. I mean twenty-five years ago we thought margerine was the best thing since butter - better than butter, but now we know that this and everything else hydrogenated is not only just as bad as the saturated fats in butter, but even worse! Who's to say another 25 years from now we discover a similar case w/sucralose - I mean you're just taking the original molecular structure of sugar and tweaking it right? Just like hydrogenated oils.
Anyone got a counterpoint to this? I sure would like to hear it.
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speedyfeet
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-08-2005 04:39 PM
I ain't just making this up. I'm in Dietetics at McGill, which I would consider to be a good university, and I've taken courses on this. They teach us it's safe. I'm not going into the long winded explanations. So take the courses and find out for yourself. Ignorance about such products like BHA and other chemicals added to our food is what brings out the fear. Just because it doesn't "need" to be there doesn't mean it is unhealthy. Educate yourself by taking some courses at a reputable university on the subject. You'll find out the truth fast enough.
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gebuh
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-08-2005 06:33 PM
I don't consider myself an expert by a long shot- but I did go out and get a degree in chemistry- an a.s. so I know just enuf to be a danger to myself and others. when I hear statements like "they teach us its safe" and "the fda tested it so it's ok" I worry about the future. I refuse to blindly accept the party line we are continually fed. I don't look for conspiracy theories on the internet, I don't live in a cave with tin foil on my head or feed my kids sprouts and yogurt. But I refuse to be a knowing guinea pig for food corps who's only interest is their bottom line. I'm sure it exists- but I can't think of any "improvements" to our food supply within the last 30 years or so that had anything to do with improving the quality of our food. Its all about profit. So we have pretty apples and tomatoes that are almost tasteless and are lower in nutrients, but they sell well. Hydrogenation is used to improve shelf life. The list goes on. The funny part is; you speak of ignorance- but the american food industry THRIVES on ignorance. An educated consumer is NOT a good customer. Blindly trusting people who believe that stuff like wonder bread, lunchables, lucky charms, etc are good for you, are like money in the bank. Maybe its different in the frozen north- but it doesn't look that way for the lower 48. quote:
Originally posted by speedyfeet:
I ain't just making this up. I'm in Dietetics at McGill, which I would consider to be a good university, and I've taken courses on this. They teach us it's safe. I'm not going into the long winded explanations. So take the courses and find out for yourself. Ignorance about such products like BHA and other chemicals added to our food is what brings out the fear. Just because it doesn't "need" to be there doesn't mean it is unhealthy. Educate yourself by taking some courses at a reputable university on the subject. You'll find out the truth fast enough.
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speedyfeet
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-08-2005 09:42 PM
We don't live in igloos in Canada. It is different here though. Whenever I go to the US I am literally astonished by the amount of crap that people eat. Geez, you go to any big event and buying a yogurt or a fruit is next to impossible. It's not so much like that here. We aren't so into the whole fried thing, and we aren't nearly as donut obsessed. The Krispy Kreme didn't even last here. Also, if the name ain't in French, or at least translatable, we don't sell it.[This message has been edited by speedyfeet (edited Jun-08-2005).]
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sydskid1
Member |
posted Jun-08-2005 09:55 PM
(as i sit here drinking a diet coke...)my advice on the splenda situation is to do a bit of research on the research that has been done on the different sweeteners. splenda is just regular sugar molecule with a couple of hydrogens replaced by a couple of chlorines. although i want to say chlorine is dangerous, i was a competative swimmer for 10 years, so i've injested a lot of chlorine (as most swimmers inadvertantly have) and nothing bad has happened... yet. i think it really comes down to where you personally draw the line between good sense and overly cautious
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Coastwalker
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 07:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sydskid1:
i think it really comes down to where you personally draw the line between good sense and overly cautious
...and everybody draws the line in a different place, based on their own experience and knowledge. So it has always been, and will continue to be. That is why some people practically live on a diet of fast food, and others won't touch meat or anything not organically-grown. We are, obviously, better off for doing some research into the particular food issue that is on the table (so to speak), but that doesn't necessarily mean that we'll all come to the same conclusions. And that is what keeps these kinds of debates interesting!
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dg2000r
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 08:09 AM
I'm with gebuh on this - If it's not natural, it's not safe. Simple as that.That's not to say it will kill you or even harm you in your lifetime, but to claim something is 'safe' that has only been in existance for a few years, just because they 'teach it' (or should that be 'preach it') at universities is very naive. How many other man made things have been certified as safe by the powers that be only to be proved dangerous later on?
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Acidosis
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dg2000r:
I'm with gebuh on this - If it's not natural, it's not safe. Simple as that.That's not to say it will kill you or even harm you in your lifetime, but to claim something is 'safe' that has only been in existance for a few years, just because they 'teach it' (or should that be 'preach it') at universities is very naive. How many other man made things have been certified as safe by the powers that be only to be proved dangerous later on?
God forbid if you ever get cancer and have to have chemo, or are ever in such intense pain and have to have a pain medication like morphine that was made by a pharmaceutical company. If you ever have surgery maybe try doing it with whiskey. BTW, cyanide is found in nature, so maybe go pop a cyanide pill since it's "natural", and then go to the hospital and ask them to cure you with only things that were not man made.
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dg2000r
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 10:19 AM
I'd hardly say chemo or morphine are safe! They are desperate solutions to extreme problems and would do you far more harm than good in any other circumstance.I didn't say I wouldn't use any thing unnatural either - I was merely saying it's naive to believe people when they tell you these things are 100% safe, as very few things are.
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speedyfeet
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 10:35 AM
I love my apples, eat 'em every day. I don't like having to go to the garbage, and hate to waste any of it, so I just eat the core and the seeds too. The seeds have cyanide in them. I do this at least once a day. I'm still alive.Sure, such things like cyanide can kill you, but I think I'd have to eat hundreds of apples cores every day for a long time before I was poisoned. Splenda's the same thing. Everyone is just so darn scared, it's pathetic.
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Acidosis
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 11:00 AM
While were at it, what is exactly your definition of natural.
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gebuh
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 11:08 AM
I'm not scared, I'm realistic. Your argument sounds a bit fallacious- the cyanide in apples hasn't killed me, therefore splenda is safe. I say again- I am not debating the safety of splenda, just the track record of the industry that makes it. The fact that you're training in the field of dietetics and advocate such a head in the sand view is scary. quote:
Originally posted by speedyfeet:
I love my apples, eat 'em every day. I don't like having to go to the garbage, and hate to waste any of it, so I just eat the core and the seeds too. The seeds have cyanide in them. I do this at least once a day. I'm still alive.Sure, such things like cyanide can kill you, but I think I'd have to eat hundreds of apples cores every day for a long time before I was poisoned. Splenda's the same thing. Everyone is just so darn scared, it's pathetic.
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Acidosis
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 11:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by dg2000r:
II didn't say I wouldn't use any thing unnatural either - I was merely saying it's naive to believe people when they tell you these things are 100% safe, as very few things are.
It's just as naive if not more naive to say that because something is found in nature or wasn't produced by man that it is better and safer. Your right nothing is 100% percent safe, but categorizing things made by man automatically as unsafe is an unfair assumption, now go have a granola bar.
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gebuh
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 12:47 PM
tell you what- you write a list of all the man made foods that are a good part of a balanced diet, and I'll do a list of natural stuff that fit the same requirements. Then we'll compare. quote:
Originally posted by Acidosis:
It's just as naive if not more naive to say that because something is found in nature or wasn't produced by man that it is better and safer. Your right nothing is 100% percent safe, but categorizing things made by man automatically as unsafe is an unfair assumption, now go have a granola bar.
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speedyfeet
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 02:26 PM
Calcium-fortified orange juice
Tofu
Tempeh
TVP
Pasteurized milk and eggs, egg substitutes
Lactaid milk
Ensure/Boost/ other nutritional supplements used in hospitals when people need balance nutrition but find it difficult to eat
Red wine in moderation
Soy "milk"
Cheese
Yogurt
All-bran
Golden rice, and other genetically modified organisms
Dark chocolate in moderation
Whole wheat bread, bagels, pitas
Low fat sour cream
Omega-3 enriched beverages and other products, like eggs
Gatorade/powergels for endurance acticivities
Non-hydrogenated margarine
Jams
Pickled foods like beets, cucumbers, etc, in moderation
MCT oil
Veggie burgers, meatballs, other faux meat products
.............These are all man made and pretty healthy, and there's tons more. [This message has been edited by speedyfeet (edited Jun-09-2005).]
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Acidosis
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 02:28 PM
Lets not forget tap water
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puglogic
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-09-2005 02:53 PM
I try not to eat too much of anything that was invented in a laboratory in the last twenty-five years. I personally do fine on the things that grow normally, and haven't missed soda since pouring my last one down the drain ten years ago. So Splenda might not be bad for you, or it might be, no one REALLY knows for sure at this point in time what the cost of long-term ingestion might be. But the wise folks here make good points: there's a lot of crap in our diet that's equally questionable, and we don't debate it nearly as hotly as we do Splenda. If you want Splenda that badly in your diet, throw the dice and enjoy. Life's short!
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Cynthia Blue
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-10-2005 04:40 PM
" when I hear statements like "they teach us its safe" and "the fda tested it so it's ok" I worry about the future."Exactly what I would have said. Over the last year or so my opinion of the medical community and the those who claim they know all about health in the govt have lost my respect. I suffer from some major hormonal imbalances and the first thing the doctors prescribe is the pill. I have endometriosis too. And the pill whacked me out so completely badly that I felt like I'd been hit by a truck for the 2 days I took it. After reading a lot of information about hormones I have found that they are not well understood by our medical 'professionals' and many woman are actually hurt by the common prescriptions. After reading many books about nutrition over the last 14 years, and more in recent months, I've come to believe the Standard American Diet is, in a nutshell, killing Americans. And so no, I don't think Splenda is safe. ------------------
Running Log
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Mikey314159
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-10-2005 08:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cynthia Blue:
" when I hear statements like "they teach us its safe" and "the fda tested it so it's ok" I worry about the future."Exactly what I would have said. Over the last year or so my opinion of the medical community and the those who claim they know all about health in the govt have lost my respect. I suffer from some major hormonal imbalances and the first thing the doctors prescribe is the pill. I have endometriosis too. And the pill whacked me out so completely badly that I felt like I'd been hit by a truck for the 2 days I took it. After reading a lot of information about hormones I have found that they are not well understood by our medical 'professionals' and many woman are actually hurt by the common prescriptions. After reading many books about nutrition over the last 14 years, and more in recent months, I've come to believe the Standard American Diet is, in a nutshell, killing Americans. And so no, I don't think Splenda is safe.
Ignorance is bliss! Need I say more?
The American diet may be leading to the death of some americans, but this has nothing to do with the health professionals. Dietitans, as I will be one day (and apparently I'll be a bad one), have worked hard to come up with a food guide rainbow (canada) and pyramid (US). The problem is the people who CHOOSE not to follow it and eat crap instead. Don't blame it on the medical community, blame it on yourself. If you're so smart you should stop going to doctors, they aren't natural anyway. Just follow your own advice/instinct and see how far it gets you. Whatever you do, don't take advice from any educated individuals, as this will definately set you up for failure. And don't follow the food guide, it's "in a nutshell, killing Americans". Whatever.
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My User Profile
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jenuin1
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-10-2005 11:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jenuin1:
Uh, I can see this big picture. I think this is a good point. I mean twenty-five years ago we thought margerine was the best thing since butter - better than butter, but now we know that this and everything else hydrogenated is not only just as bad as the saturated fats in butter, but even worse! Who's to say another 25 years from now we discover a similar case w/sucralose - I mean you're just taking the original molecular structure of sugar and tweaking it right? Just like hydrogenated oils.Anyone got a counterpoint to this? I sure would like to hear it.
Just like hydrogenated oils (ie trans fats), who knows if "they" discover this too actually isn't so healthy for us either. Well, either this was a non-point or a very good point that no one refutes...
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Mikey314159
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-11-2005 06:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jenuin1:
Just like hydrogenated oils (ie trans fats), who knows if "they" discover this too actually isn't so healthy for us either.Well, either this was a non-point or a very good point that no one refutes...
I refuted it already. The processes are nothing alike and cannot be compared. Irrelevant statement in my opinion.
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My User Profile
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speedyfeet
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-11-2005 06:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jenuin1:
Just like hydrogenated oils (ie trans fats), who knows if "they" discover this too actually isn't so healthy for us either.Well, either this was a non-point or a very good point that no one refutes...
Hydrogenated oils aren't trans fats. I don't know where you got that one from. Sure, some are, but don't say that hydrogenated = trans, because that's simply not true. Hydrogenation implies that an oil is transformed by adding Hs and a catalyst to make the oil more saturated. The formation of the trans bond is a side reaction that may occur during the process of hydrogenation, as the cis bond transforms to its trans conformation, making the oil act more like a saturated one. But hydrogenation isn't trans.
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jenuin1
Cool Runner |
posted Jun-11-2005 09:45 AM
Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't know I was such an idiot.
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