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Boston Marathon Start Changes

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Author Topic:   Boston Marathon Start Changes
kevinm
Administrator
posted Jan-23-2006 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kevinm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any news from the Boston Marathon creates a certain level of buzz, but the latest announcement that the 2006 field will be split into two waves—to start at Noon and 12:30 p.m respectively—has not exactly been met with shouts of joy.

The organizers’ concerns with runners “fertilizing” the lawns of Hopkinton residents may be ameliorated to a certain extent, but there will still be a glut of runners overrunning this tiny New England village on Patriot’s day, pretty much all at the same time.

Extracts are from an article by Don Allison

For the complete article:
http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/6/6_1/hey-baa-better-early-than.shtml

What do you think of the BAA's plans?

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chipster
Cool Runner
posted Jan-26-2006 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chipster   Click Here to Email chipster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An early start option would be great. I've not yet run a qualifying time but plan to do so in 2006. A noon start for this Clydesdale is not appealing at all and might even keep me from doing Boston at all.

A 7am start would be awesome and I would then be able to see the elites finish after having a relaxing post-race meal and a couple of pints of ale!

chipster

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TFF1
Member
posted Jan-26-2006 07:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TFF1   Click Here to Email TFF1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm..

Seems Don should check the stats from prior Bostons. His argument seems tied into the notion that the first 10 corrals will put people easily across the finish line by 4 with a "traditional" noon start. Fact is there are many runners in the back 10 corrals that finish well under 4 hours and a good number in the first 10 who don't. Let's face it, some in the first 10 bonk and some in the back 10 fly ...

Boston is everything, race, pageant, pilgramage and if you get a number and pay the same fee as everyone else you should be able to go when "the" gun goes off. Segregating the group has not been tradition and should not be embraced nor encouraged..

The nonsensical garbage about relieving traffic congestion with the split start , earlier group as Don suggests, is pure folly. Boston is a full day event and all towns treat it as such. Starting the back 10 at 7 AM and the "elite" 10 at noon will do NOTHING to alleviate congestion in Boston at rush hour, NOTHING !!!..

While some distance races are now smiling over their "sunshine" starts (and for good logistical reasons) Boston should eskew falling into this pathology.

Boston at noon, come rain, shine, wind , snow, hail and whatever minor consequences nervous topped off bladders may bring.... It's what a traditon is, it's what the race has meant to all in twenty pulsating corrals.
Tom

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TFF1
Member
posted Jan-26-2006 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TFF1   Click Here to Email TFF1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmm..

Seems Don should check the stats from prior Bostons. His argument seems tied into the notion that the first 10 corrals will put people easily across the finish line by 4 with a "traditional" noon start. Fact is there are many runners in the back 10 corrals that finish well under 4 hours and a good number in the first 10 who don't. Let's face it, some in the first 10 bonk and some in the back 10 fly ...

Boston is everything, race, pageant, pilgramage and if you get a number and pay the same fee as everyone else you should be able to go when "the" gun goes off. Segregating the group has not been tradition and should not be embraced nor encouraged..

The nonsensical garbage about relieving traffic congestion with the split start , earlier group as Don suggests, is pure folly. Boston is a full day event and all towns treat it as such. Starting the back 10 at 7 AM and the "elite" 10 at noon will do NOTHING to alleviate congestion in Boston at rush hour, NOTHING !!!..

While some distance races are now smiling over their "sunshine" starts (and for good logistical reasons) Boston should eskew falling into this pathology.

Boston at noon, come rain, shine, wind , snow, hail and whatever minor consequences nervous topped off bladders may bring.... It's what a traditon is, it's what the race has meant to all in twenty pulsating corrals.
Tom

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Arrojo
Cool Runner
posted Jan-30-2006 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arrojo   Click Here to Email Arrojo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The real reason for the two starting times is for Hopkinton. The residents complained about the excessive urinating (and defecating!) on people's lawns prior to the race. By essentially halving the number of runners lined up at one time, a lot of that will be alleviated. I think it's a good idea.

[This message has been edited by Arrojo (edited Jan-31-2006).]

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Assorted Nuts
Cool Runner
posted Feb-01-2006 07:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Assorted Nuts     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TFF1:
[B]Hmm..

Boston should eskew falling into this pathology.


No offense intended here. Your post sounded intelligent. However, to pull it all together, you should learn how to spell eschew if you plan on using it again.

I think changes are due in Boston. Noon is too late, no matter the speed of the runner, but it seems tradition prevails.

As far as "fertilizing the lawn," I wouldn't mind if a [i]few[i/] people peed in my yard. If that number jumped to dozens, or even hundreds, I wouldn't like it.

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TFF1
Member
posted Feb-01-2006 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TFF1   Click Here to Email TFF1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AN,
Thanks for the spell check.. Given the grammatical gaffs and myriad egregious misspellings I see daily on this site can only conclude your a very busy man.

No offense meant of course.

Yours

Webster's

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krarf
Cool Runner
posted Mar-08-2006 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for krarf   Click Here to Email krarf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What's funny is a guy who is hung up on spelling mistakes but isn't bothered to learn how to use HTML tags!

------------------
_ __________________________________ _
Frank


Get going. Get up and walk if you have to, but finish the damned race.
--- Ron Hill to Jerome Drayton during the 1970 Boston Marathon

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MichaelFKrause
Member
posted Apr-04-2006 01:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichaelFKrause     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everybody, 2006 will be my first participation in the Boston Marathon. Just my humble opinion on the wave start. Here in Berlin (ca. 30.000 runners) the wave start works perfectly. The only thing is that some folks are cheating and just register with fake times. So the organizer should have a firm grip on checking the times with which people are registering. I agree that starting the race in the morning at around 9 a.m. would be much better for all runners.Everyone a happy and successful Boston Marathon 2006 !

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kathy mcwilliams
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posted Apr-06-2006 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kathy mcwilliams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm very upset about the waves. I qualified for Boston with a 3:35 and I'm 43 years old. The waves have the effect of more than segregating the runners in villages, it's discriminatory. There is both a gender bias and age bias with the waves. To qualify for Boston a young woman aged 18-34 needs a 3:40. No doubt, that in addition to the Women's 50 elite runners; there will be several thousand women in the first wave. However, it will be a predominantly male marathon at 12:00noon. The second wave runners will be at 12:30pm with mostly female runners and males over the age of 50 who need a 3:35 to qualify.
It would be of interest to know the break out of the males and females in the waves but from the basics of qualifying times, my summation is correct.
If I wanted to run in a world class marathon for women only- I would. This is my second Boston and I enjoy the whole experience. I do feel like I'm a second class citizen with the segregation of the sexes in the villages and with the race.
If the race director wanted to make a change that didn't leave one group disenfrancised, he should have had the guts to change the start time. Waiting around to run creates the need to constantly "go to the bathroom". Begin the race at 8:00am when people are ready to run in no matter what weather we get in New England!
I'll ask my partner to cross the village line and spend the day in my village since the marathon experience is tremendously enhanced when you train and share the running together.

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Arrojo
Cool Runner
posted Apr-06-2006 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Arrojo   Click Here to Email Arrojo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kathy mcwilliams:
I'm very upset about the waves. I qualified for Boston with a 3:35 and I'm 43 years old. The waves have the effect of more than segregating the runners in villages, it's discriminatory. There is both a gender bias and age bias with the waves. To qualify for Boston a young woman aged 18-34 needs a 3:40. No doubt, that in addition to the Women's 50 elite runners; there will be several thousand women in the first wave. However, it will be a predominantly male marathon at 12:00noon. The second wave runners will be at 12:30pm with mostly female runners and males over the age of 50 who need a 3:35 to qualify.
It would be of interest to know the break out of the males and females in the waves but from the basics of qualifying times, my summation is correct.
If I wanted to run in a world class marathon for women only- I would. This is my second Boston and I enjoy the whole experience. I do feel like I'm a second class citizen with the segregation of the sexes in the villages and with the race.
If the race director wanted to make a change that didn't leave one group disenfrancised, he should have had the guts to change the start time. Waiting around to run creates the need to constantly "go to the bathroom". Begin the race at 8:00am when people are ready to run in no matter what weather we get in New England!
I'll ask my partner to cross the village line and spend the day in my village since the marathon experience is tremendously enhanced when you train and share the running together.

You make some good points about the segregation in the waves, but I don't think the village itself is segregated into waves. Just the start times. A better approach might be to put the fastest 50% of men and 50% of women in the first wave. It still wouldn't account for age bias, but it would be an improvement.

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kathy mcwilliams
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posted Apr-06-2006 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kathy mcwilliams     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,
It's true, the villages are segregated also. I'm not even on the same bus as my running partner! We'll figure it out.

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lamerunner
Cool Runner
posted Apr-06-2006 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lamerunner   Click Here to Email lamerunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In addition to tradition, logistics plays a role in the noon start. It would be hard to bus everyone out to Hopkinton in time for an early morning start;as it is, buses start at 7 am or earlier.

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JimR
Cool Runner
posted Apr-06-2006 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JimR   Click Here to Email JimR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moving the start time won't alter the logistics of getting people to Hopkinton and keeping them off the lawns. There's still 20,000+ runners to transport and get prepared. An 8:00AM start would just mean leaving a whole lot earlier. The advantage of an earlier start is to avoid the heat of the day. There may be some benefit with traffic avoidance for the (bus) drivers, but I'm not sure if that's a significant issue on Patriot's Day in Boston.

The nice thing about setting corrals based on qualifying time is you'll be running with people of similar speed instead of having to work your way around slower runners or having faster runners try to push around you. If it affects the distribution in the village or the corrals themselves, then so be it.

It is not by any means discriminatory...in fact, it is exactly the opposite. Qualifying faster moves you into a faster corral, regardless of your body parts.

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divechief
Cool Runner
posted Apr-06-2006 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divechief   Click Here to Email divechief     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kathy mcwilliams:
Hi,
It's true, the villages are segregated also. I'm not even on the same bus as my running partner! We'll figure it out.


As I read it, they will not be strict about which half of the village you hang in, nor do I think they will be strict about which bus you board. I think the only things they will be strict about is starting in the correct wave and not moving into a faster corral.
But I could be wrong.
Dave

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MichaelFKrause
Member
posted Apr-27-2006 09:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MichaelFKrause     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kathy mcwilliams:
I'm very upset about the waves. I qualified for Boston with a 3:35 and I'm 43 years old. The waves have the effect of more than segregating the runners in villages, it's discriminatory. There is both a gender bias and age bias with the waves. To qualify for Boston a young woman aged 18-34 needs a 3:40. No doubt, that in addition to the Women's 50 elite runners; there will be several thousand women in the first wave. However, it will be a predominantly male marathon at 12:00noon. The second wave runners will be at 12:30pm with mostly female runners and males over the age of 50 who need a 3:35 to qualify.
It would be of interest to know the break out of the males and females in the waves but from the basics of qualifying times, my summation is correct.
If I wanted to run in a world class marathon for women only- I would. This is my second Boston and I enjoy the whole experience. I do feel like I'm a second class citizen with the segregation of the sexes in the villages and with the race.
If the race director wanted to make a change that didn't leave one group disenfrancised, he should have had the guts to change the start time. Waiting around to run creates the need to constantly "go to the bathroom". Begin the race at 8:00am when people are ready to run in no matter what weather we get in New England!
I'll ask my partner to cross the village line and spend the day in my village since the marathon experience is tremendously enhanced when you train and share the running together.


Think a lot of people cheated while registering. I started in wave one and finished the race 3 minutes slower than my qualifying time. Nevertheless I could finish 3500 places ahead of my starting place. Under normal circumstances this is not possible. In the end this did not bother me because I have not had any problem running at my pace from the very beginning. But it is of course unfair against those people that did not cheat and ended up in wave two.

[This message has been edited by MichaelFKrause (edited Apr-27-2006).]

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Viich
Cool Runner
posted Apr-27-2006 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Viich     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some people may have tried to get into the second wave... clear road at the start!

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hodgej1
Cool Runner
posted Feb-14-2007 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hodgej1   Click Here to Email hodgej1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kathy mcwilliams:
I'm very upset about the waves. I qualified for Boston with a 3:35 and I'm 43 years old. The waves have the effect of more than segregating the runners in villages, it's discriminatory. There is both a gender bias and age bias with the waves. To qualify for Boston a young woman aged 18-34 needs a 3:40. No doubt, that in addition to the Women's 50 elite runners; there will be several thousand women in the first wave. However, it will be a predominantly male marathon at 12:00noon. The second wave runners will be at 12:30pm with mostly female runners and males over the age of 50 who need a 3:35 to qualify.
It would be of interest to know the break out of the males and females in the waves but from the basics of qualifying times, my summation is correct.
If I wanted to run in a world class marathon for women only- I would. This is my second Boston and I enjoy the whole experience. I do feel like I'm a second class citizen with the segregation of the sexes in the villages and with the race.
If the race director wanted to make a change that didn't leave one group disenfrancised, he should have had the guts to change the start time. Waiting around to run creates the need to constantly "go to the bathroom". Begin the race at 8:00am when people are ready to run in no matter what weather we get in New England!
I'll ask my partner to cross the village line and spend the day in my village since the marathon experience is tremendously enhanced when you train and share the running together.

This is athletics we are talking about here. The starting corrals are based on PERFORMANCE. There is absolutely no room for crying sexual / age bias or discrimination. That is silly. If you want a better starting place you simply have to qualify faster, regardless of your age or gender.
I absolutely love any race where runners are asked to line up according to their projected finish time. This alleviates a lot of congestion in the opening miles and makes the race better for everyone.

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CippyCup
Cool Runner
posted Feb-20-2007 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CippyCup   Click Here to Email CippyCup     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this forum sucks grande chonez

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Chris the Wheeler
Cool Runner
posted Feb-21-2007 06:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Chris the Wheeler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't get this forum. Are only the Mods allowed a point of view? Considering the only thread here is over a year old, I guess they don't have any point of views.

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Steve McGuiness
Member
posted Nov-12-2007 05:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steve McGuiness     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Time for a new topic.

------------------
XCcoach

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