posted May-08-2007 08:50 AM            

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posted May-08-2007 10:37 AM            

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posted May-08-2007 12:01 PM            

fyi... I ran the course last Saturday. I did the E2E2E starting at route 119 in Ashburnham. In the am there was quite a bit of deep mud on the short section of fireroad after coming down off of MT Watatic. For the most part the trail is in great shape! the Wapack Trail is one of the most challenging runs around as far as I'm concerned. Lots of varied terrain with Ledge, mud, rocks, roots and of course; plenty of elevation gain and loss. There is even a short stretch of asphalt. I saw the race director out on the course and it looked like he was making sure the trail markers were visible. There are a few turns that you really have to pay attention to so you don't go the wrong way. The Wapack trail is marked with yellow markers all the way so if you go more than 50 yards without seeing one you probably have mad a wrong turn. I'm sure on race day there will be someone at the few turns.

Have a great run and don't forget to stop to take in the views once in awhile. They are incredible.

Greg

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posted May-08-2007 02:55 PM               

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posted May-08-2007 03:34 PM            

From Ashburnham (rt 119) to Greenville NH (Mountian Road?) took me 4 hours 50 Minutes. Took it a little easier on the way back and finished in 10:43. Long day with great weather. Water not turned on yet at the top of Pack Monadnock. Survived on Gels and 2 liters of H20 in my hydration pack.

My first long training run of the year. Can't wait to get up into the White Mountains this Summer. Got a sick thought that I might want to do the full AMC Hut traverse in one shot this Summer. (East to West). Are you up for it?

Greg

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posted May-08-2007 03:36 PM            

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posted May-08-2007 05:19 PM               

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posted May-08-2007 07:00 PM            

Were you guys one and two at the Cape Cod 50K? If so, we met in the camper at the end, and that is where I got this crazy idea....thanks! This will be the second of three marathons in three weeks. Thanks for all of the info Greg. Sarah108 and StPauligirl, I look forward to meeting you out there somewhere on the trail, while maintaining some semblance of forward motion, I hope.

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posted May-08-2007 10:24 PM            

Yes, that was us. Man it was cold that day! 50k on the beach in the middle of the Winter. Ya gotta love New England!

Wow three marathons in three weeks!!! The Wapack is pretty tough but not impossible. Try to find a pace that you think you can run for the whole distance; then scale back from that and you'll do fine. There aren't any real major climbs but there are many minor ups and downs.

It is the kind of run you really got to take the time to enjoy! If the weather is good then the views will be awesome.

Enjoy,

Greg

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posted May-09-2007 01:00 PM            

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posted May-10-2007 01:47 AM            

I don't want anyone to underestimate the toughness of this run; as I mentioned it is tough. What I meant by no real tough climbs was that there is nothing like some of the elevation in the White Mountains of NH. (Presidential Range) Up there the climbs can be one to two hours long if you are running or fast hiking as fast as possible!
The Wapack has shorter climbs, in comparison, but there are quite a few. They seem to just keep on coming....What helps with Wapack is that I think there is enough runnable trail to offset the tough uphill sections. You get some firetrail and runnable single track as well as some dirt road and even asphalt.

Hope everyone has a great time on the Wapack this weekend. The weather does look like it will cooperate.

Greg

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posted May-10-2007 09:09 AM            

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posted May-10-2007 10:47 AM            

I don't have the best memory after long runs so take this with a grain of salt.

I believe there is a nice runnable stretch after you reach the top of Watatic (the first climb). This climb starts maybe 5-10 minutes (if that) after the start. The trail is runnable down from the summit and then it turns right onto a possibly muddy fireroad (weather depending), with lots of deep tire tracks to either go in or around. Last week this section was very muddy. It is a nice gradual downhill and isn't very tough (elevation wise) either way actually. The problem is on the way back you are dealing with fatigue.

The rest of the run is just a blur for me. There is a tough stretch that goes through Windblown Ski area that goes from nice runnable trails to a moraine like drop with a nice running stream by the side. Before this stretch there are some substantial ups and downs over ledge and rocks and some grassy rocky elevation. It is very pretty.

I don't remember the order of the trail vs road etc for a long stretch after this. I know that you cross rt 123/124 and eventually you come to an old ski area that looks like it is in someone's backyard. There is also a stretch of road you run on that goes from dirt to asphalt as you come out of the woods. You follow the asphalt for about 1/2 mile before going right into the woods again. After that you eventually get to the old Temple Mountain ski area. There is a little stretch of dirt road there but be sure to follow the yellow triangles on the ground and on rocks and cairns because you go into a tall grass area before you come out to rt 101. You cross 101 and start the toughest climb of the day up to South Pack Monadnock. Lots of rock and not much running until you get quite a ways up. At the Summit there usually is a building with H20 but it wasn't open last week when I was there. From there to the top of North pack you just have to grunt it out. From the summit of North Pack to Mountain road is pretty runnable but it is still tough trail.

I honestly don't remember much coming back. It was a pretty tough day and I backed off coming back and tried to enjoy the day and views. I did run pretty hard up to Watatic on the way back and ran as hard as possible down from Watatic to the Rt 119 parking lot.

I only ran the E2E2E so I don't know what the race director has in store for everyone for the last 8 miles to make 50 miles.

Keep in mind that this was my experience and route on the course as marked by yellow triangles. There is the possibility that the race director could change the course a little bit so don't take my experience as bible.

I hope this wasn't to rambling and helps some. Sometimes I prefer to not know the course beforehand. The first two or three times we ran the Wapack trail we started in the dark, not knowing the course at all! It was a blast! No time to try to hit. Just a day out on the trail! Sometimes the word race is over used. Just go out and run it as a long training run and you'll do fine.

Greg

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posted May-14-2007 08:38 AM            

Also, I was not trained properly to run on such an extremely technical course. I guess some people do it all the time, but I was not able nor did I want to move fast over the sort of course where one false step could easily bring about a season-ending injury, especially being alone in the woods far from any support.

The long and short of it is, it took me an inordinate amount of time to cover only approximately 15 miles. When I got to the aid station at that point, there was still about 6 miles to the turnaround for the E2E2E and the toughest part of the course was still ahead. It was pretty obvious that there was no way that I could finish the E2E2E in the 14 hour time limit, nor did I really care about it at that point. I would've been happy to have finished the E2E and called it a day, but I was informed that no one would be there to take me back to my car at the other end of the trail. So I had no choice but to quit right there and get a ride back from the RD.

At that point I felt so disappointed and discouraged because I know that I could've done much better on a less-challenging course. It was only 1:30 in the afternoon by the time I got back to my B&B, so I decided to go hike nearby Mt. Monadnock which was quite good so it wasn't a complete waste of a day.

The next day I drove south to Topsfield, MA, to see some friends who were running in the GAC 6 hour run. I ended up doing 2 loops just very casually with friends and had a great time. I spoke with several people, most of whom had done some running or racing on the course in years past, about the Wapack race and all of them were quite dubious about it for a variety of reasons. They also said that many people had gotten lost and/or had a hard time staying on the course. So I did not feel so bad after talking to them about it.

I signed up for the 50 because I wanted to do a spring 50 in New England as training for the VT 100 without having to travel and take time off of work. In terms of training though, I wish I had done the GAC 6 hour instead, it would've been much more beneficial and a lot more fun!

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posted May-14-2007 10:19 AM            

Sorry you had such a dissapointing day. Your experience is why I usually shy away from giving insight and info on courses. I hope my info didn't cross you up to badly! Rockhopper (a friend of mine) ran the 21 mile and he also got lost a little and he has a lot of experience on the trail; so don't feel bad.
You can't compare times on this course with other courses. My experience is that it is much harder/slower than most. I was working pretty hard when I ran the E2E2E around 10 hrs 45 minutes. When I saw the 14 hour cutoff I thought it was pretty aggressive for most people.

Also it seems like it is a tough course to manage in terms of race management; especially with many races going on at once. It probably would be better to pick maybe just the E2E or the E2E2E and concentrate on one race.

I was planning on doing the GAC 6 hour but never made it. At least you got some additional running in there!

Best of luck in VT!

Sightseer66 How did you make out at Wapack?

Greg

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posted May-14-2007 06:57 PM            

There were a number of things about this race that were, shall we say, eccentric, but overall things worked pretty well. Highlight--school bus full of runners going to the start with the bad boys in the back talking smack. Lowlight--LONG bus ride to the start with the bad boys....

A late start, 9:30, for the 21 milers, and a little later for the four marathoners.

Anyway, it was nice talking a while with Rockhopper, Running Buddha, and others on the bus--I hardly saw any other runners during the actual race.

To complete the marathon distance, .2 was added to the starting location, and then a loop back up and over Watatic at the end. If I ever wanted to shoot a post-apocalyptic movie, there would definitely be a scene in the desolate broken parking lot on the back side of Watatic. There I had to search for a hole punch attached to a gate to mark my bib. I felt like the last man on earth back there, which may explain why I got "lost" coming down the mountain at the very end. I wasn't sure if I was going the right way, things were familiar, but I wasn't sure, so I went back to the top to try to figure it out. Luckily for me a 50M was coming down to complete her 42, and she assured me I had been going the right way. Oh well, that's fatigue.

I took your advice Greg and took a few pictures along the way.

Yeah, that is the trail.

Nothing to do with all of those rocks but build a fence, as this is "good fences make good neighbors" country.

[This message has been edited by Sightseer66 (edited May-14-2007).]

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posted May-14-2007 10:24 PM            

Take it easy out there.

Greg

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posted May-15-2007 06:25 PM               

Getting lost was easy too. I should know--I've run that trail several times and still got lost for a while.

I just noticed that the results are posted on the web site
under "Racers 2007," not under Results 2007.

Wow, only 5 people completed the 50. Glad I ran the 21!

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posted May-17-2007 08:44 PM               

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