| Author |
Topic: Essential elements to running 100 miles |
Geist
Cool Runner |
 posted Feb-07-2006 01:56 PM
  
LT,I've not yet run an ultra, but I'm training to run the LH this year too, and I'm signed up for the Mother Road 100 in November. I've read Vonhoff's foot book, about half of Noakes's Lore of Running, and Kirk Johnson's To the Edge. All great, informative books, but now I'm hungry for the real thing. So, you won't be the only newbie slugging away out there. See you in Ohiopyle! Carl
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pithydoug
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-11-2006 06:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ltrun:
Ultra vets, what are they?I ask, since this year I'm going for the Laurel Ultra. While there's no guarantee I'll like the distance, I'm of the mind to try a 100 someday. Couldn't hurt to ask some questions. Just wondering what y'all think? Thanks, LT
Lot's of good replies but I'll add a few training thoughts. Think in hours and elevation for long runs. Traditional miles is not specific enough. It's best, although not always possible, to find a trail that is equal to or tougher than your race. Then it's up to you to decide how long(in hours) you feel necessary to work up to before your race. As discussed before your long runs can be a single long shot or Back-2-back. I know miles looks better in a log book. You can of course apporoximate the miles and plug them in. Unfortunately, ther numbers tend to look low. When I write 20 in my book it looks paltry. In the comments section it says 4 hours and 4,500 feet of up and down. Think in quality not quantity.  Ditto on the train at night, practice eating, drinking(to include salt), shoes, socks, etc etc. I will confess that I have never run in the dark in training. I have a 10 LED light that works just find to "light my path." OTOH, do as I say not as I do. 
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Benj Deppman
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-11-2006 06:33 AM
This is a great thread. I find your posts and information both daunting and motivating. Thank you!
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2slow4u
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-11-2006 05:49 PM
Great info guys and gals. Having just DNF'd at mile 80 of the Rocky Raccoon 100, I'll impart what I learned that will hopefully help me finish my next 100. Some of this has been mentioned previously, but it doesn't hurt to reiterate it. My first 60 miles were great (on pace to finish in 22-24 hours), but then came the night. . .1) Practice running similar trails to your 100 AT NIGHT. I only did two night runs and wasn't adequately prepared for the night running.
2) Don't underestimate the oppressive power of fatigue coupled with darkness. This came over me at about mile 65 (and may be similar to Mudrunner's discussion of that being a difficult period). Unlike other short "bad patches", I couldn't recover from this one. You have to be mentally prepared for it. Following #1 will help.
3) Be sure you have adequate warm clothing for the transition from day to night. The temp can drop 20-30 degrees in an hour or two, and if you're not prepared, you'll pay. I just had a long-sleeved wicking shirt and should have carried along a jacket (tied around the waist or something). A tired body is more difficult to heat.
4) Wear trail shoes even if the trail in not technical. The Rocky is a rooty trail, and the bottoms of my feet were bruised because I wore road shoes.
5) Take in more salt/electrolyte tabs than you think you need, especially if you're a bigger runner (I'm 6'3", 185 lbs.). I depleted by stores even though I thought I was taking in enough.
6) If you carry a handheld water bottle and it's a chilly night, don't fill it with cold liquids. Even with gloves, your hands will get cold, and that ain't fun. I'll try to fill it with warm tea or lukewarm coffee (don't want to melt the plastic) next time - or not use it and get my liquids at the aid stations (every 3-4 miles at Rocky). I hope this helps. Thanks for all the wisdom y'all give, it has helped me a lot.
Jeff
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pmbooks
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-11-2006 08:41 PM
Thanks so much for your candid post, 2slow4u. Sharing your own lessons learned will help all of us who have not yet gone that distance. Much appreciated.Paul ------------------
Moi
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ltrun
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-13-2006 06:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Geist:
LT,I've not yet run an ultra, but I'm training to run the LH this year too, and I'm signed up for the Mother Road 100 in November. I've read Vonhoff's foot book, about half of Noakes's Lore of Running, and Kirk Johnson's To the Edge. All great, informative books, but now I'm hungry for the real thing. So, you won't be the only newbie slugging away out there. See you in Ohiopyle! Carl
Sounds good Carl. Hard to believe that June 10 is but 17 weeks away. See you there. Have you a copy of A step beyond: A definitive guide to ultrarunning?
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ltrun
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-13-2006 07:01 AM
So I recently got a copy of A step beyond.I'm only through a couple essays so far. One thing is for sure. I am in utter denial about my use of glycogen. I love me my glycogen. And apparently, I've trained up fairly decently to do well on a huge meal the night before for long runs and races in the duration of 2-3 hours. I can survive a marathon on 1-3 gels. This is going to be a tough transition... (ps, 2slow, thanks for sharing the RR100 lessons. Valuable info.)
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markc7
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-13-2006 09:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 2slow4u:
Great info guys and gals. Having just DNF'd at mile 80 of the Rocky Raccoon 100, I'll impart what I learned that will hopefully help me finish my next 100..5) Take in more salt/electrolyte tabs than you think you need, especially if you're a bigger runner (I'm 6'3", 185 lbs.). I depleted by stores even though I thought I was taking in enough.
This is a terrific post. Everyone thinking of running a 100 miler should keep these points in mind. Number 5 was especially important for me. I DNF'd at mile 85 of Vermont last year, because I didn't take enough salt in the early going, which led to awful nausea and eventually just running out of fuel. In the last forty miles of my race, I consumed practically no calories as a direct result of not taking in enough salt earlier in the day. ------------------
Mark My User Profile
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exciton
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-13-2006 03:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mudtoad:
Seems like out of all the challenges you ultra runners have to overcome, blistering is the one thing you can't really train for...and the one thing that can wreck an otherwise decent performance.mt
You can actually train for blistering. My feet toughen up over the course of the winter season. The fact is that there are very few things that are outside the sphere of the training effect. Is there any aspect of performance which is not trainable? (A genuine question I pose as food for thought.) The performance wreckers seem often to be related to the failure of food and fluids to be absorbed by the tummy.
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markc7
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-13-2006 03:30 PM
Although it is true that a runner can built up a resistance to the effects of blisters through training, it's important to remember that what works for one person doesn't work for everyone. Some people like to develop callouses; others need to keep their feet baby smooth. So blister prep isn't as simple as "toughening up" the feet, it's about figuring out what works for you. quote:
Originally posted by exciton:
Is there any aspect of performance which is not trainable? (A genuine question I pose as food for thought.)
Good question. I've thought of a couple possible answers, but before I could write them down I've thought of a counter argument. ------------------
Mark My User Profile
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ltrun
Cool Runner |
posted Apr-28-2006 10:02 AM
Just reviewing this one. Great input here, so I thought to give it a 'bump.'I know its not a 100, but its 6 weeks to go to Laurel. Will it be a lithmus test to see if I'm cut out for 100? We'll see.
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runs in woods
Member |
posted Apr-28-2006 12:53 PM
go out as fast as you can handle, just below LT and try to hold on. Once the sun goes down you will lose what reserves you had in the bank.
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rootsrunner
Cool Runner |
posted Aug-22-2006 04:16 PM
bump. the input here is great. I'm gravitating towards a possible MO100 next year.
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wanttorun100
Cool Runner |
posted Aug-22-2006 04:21 PM
start slow then ease off
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leitnerj
Cool Runner |
posted Aug-22-2006 06:49 PM
Can't argue with any of the inputs above. Fortunately, the causes
of my demise were very clear and were rooted into one insufficient
element of my training. I really wasn't prepared for running 3-5 miles
at a time of continuous downhills, over and over again. My trail
training has been mostly on courses akin to the Bull Run Run course
with (relatively) short ups and downs, rarely longer than 1/4 mile.
Before my next attempt at a mountain 100, I'm going to plan to get
in as many runs as possible which involve a 3-6 mile climbs followed
by 3-6 mile descents, repeating a couple times, for example, running
up into a canyon and back down. My shredded quads were the
source of all evil at Vermont and they were in bad shape even at
mile 20. Consequently, I could not squat down to take off my
shoe (to get the rocks out to avoid the nasty blisters I got), so
I ran with rocks in my shoes for about 15 hours or so. Likewise,
I couldn't sit down or remain stationary (and hence never changed
my wet shoes or socks as I had planned) at aid stations, knowing
that everything would lock up. Further, I wouldn't have believed
it until experiencing it in a 100 miler (not a big deal for 50 or less),
but as many have mentioned above, it is very important to eat
something at every aid station. I made the mistake of thinking
somewhere in the 60s that I had already eaten enough and I could
skip one. It was no more than about 2 miles before I went downhill
fast (not referring to my running). I hit my lowest low until the
next aid station at which point I ate all I could get my hands on
and perked up almost immediately. The problem was that
when I slowed to a screeching halt, my quads tightened up much
more and running became much more difficult after that point.
If my spirits and energy had not been very high, I'm sure I would
have dropped by mile 80 or 85. ------------------
MyRunningLog
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rootsrunner
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-05-2006 11:56 AM
I went digging, and found this one to bump.I'm thinking Mohican 100 next June.
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kipK
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-05-2006 05:05 PM
I did not re read the whole thread so I apologize if some repeat in what I say...but it has been weighing on me as I debate whether to do a 50 or the marathon at a race coming up in November...
My first 100 attempt was the Vermont 100 also.
This also came up as my friend asked me again, why I never wear the cool shirt! well when I finish I will!what I did right: I knew about the long long ascents and descents...lucky I live near a long long hill a lot of cyclists including me come to train on....it had always been my 'biking hill' and I used it a lot in training.....I ran it, walked it (important ot also train walking) so when those kinda hills came up, I did well and felt good I made it a major focus and even laminated a reduced chart with the aid stations listed to carry with me ( and I am NEVER that anall about anything!) so I knew when there would be a longer times btwn AS I read everything and I mean EVERYTHING I could about the course , others race reports, and about others 100 milers... I ate as much real, non sugary food during the race and I cut out caffeine a fre weeks before WHAT I DID WRONG!!!! and why I DNFd at 85.... BIG ONE: didnt know or communicate with my pacer. He thought it was a good idea to tell me when feeling bad that "its ok, you ran a lot already, if you have to stop its OK"
huh?
no, its not ok
BLISTERS: had no real plan as I didnt anticipate them. My pacer shrieking in horror when he saw my feet did not help.
those were the 2 things I think I could have controlled and did not. This year I NEED an experienced pacer...as it was my first, though its great that the VT people set you up with them, he had never run that far and wasnt prepared for what happened. Not laying any blame, but I think if I had someone who had run more than 20 miles boefore , it would have helped, also someone who had run at night...but also my fault that I did not communicate....but he was also in high school, maybe not prepared mentally for what happens durng the night part of an ultra BUT
I was happy with how I trained and thought the only thing I d do different this time was add more night runs.
I SO cannot wait for this year!
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mudrunner
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-05-2006 09:39 PM
Ha! I just re-read the thread & one of my own points stood out..."beware mile 66...". Turns out that Big Water A/S at Wasatch is at Mile 66 & it's refered to as "The Morgue".
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pmbooks
Cool Runner |
posted Oct-06-2006 07:50 AM
Laz said it all: Run until you can no longer run, walk until you can no longer walk, crawl... And this, from someone about to set out on my first: Spend as little time as you can get away with at the aid stations (if there are any). The longer you are still, the more stillness sets in. See y'all on the other side...of the weekend, that is. ;-) Pawl ------------------
Moi
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rootsrunner
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-06-2007 01:35 PM
Bump, cause I'm going for my first 100 this year and want to review......and 2slow4u nailed Rocky Raccoon this year. Way to go. MedinaUltraGal - have you seen this thread?
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tloft
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-06-2007 02:06 PM
As a runner of a few 50 Km and 50 milers, but not yet attempted a 100 yet, I think one could also look at body composition if you have the time leading up to a 100.Some dietary tweaking and a little more attention to consumption during the overall training period that could lead to shedding a few extra pounds could be extremely beneficial. I'm running, at this point, about 11 to 12 pounds lighter than this time last year and it feels very different when I climb or run the hills especially. Certainly there is an overall ease that has been gained in my running and the effect is very noticeable in my everyday pace, which has easily been shaved by a minute per mile. Right now I'm at 6' and 156 lbs. I didn't approach this with the thought of losing weight, it just happened as I retrofitted my diet and re-established my base over the fall and winter. It is certainly easier for the body to cool itself if you diminish it's mass and this makes several things a little bit easier, such as electrolyte and fluid consumption. A lighter body is easier on the feet too, which can certainly help with blister issues. I don't think I would get too serious about this if you're within a couple of months or so of your goal race, but more if you are several months to a year out. Odds are, just from the training buildup for a 100, you're going to lose a couple of pounds. Anyhow, just something else to consider amongst the string of wonderful input items here. Tim Lofton
Marysville, WA
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Steve K
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-06-2007 03:22 PM
Thanks for the bump. As I mentally & physically get ready for my first 100 it is very useful information. Thanks all. Steve K ------------------
My Profile
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merigayle
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-06-2007 05:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Steve K:
Thanks for the bump. As I mentally & physically get ready for my first 100 it is very useful information. Thanks all. Steve K
1! totally agreed.  is all i can think of
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Kimba07
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-06-2007 07:05 PM
This was a good informative post to read again. Thanks for the bump.I need to work on 1) weight loss (been working on this for several years now) 2) nutrition. I start talking to folks out on the trail, and forget my nutrition. It's my own fault because I'm too darn happy out there. That means I need to focus better. Even though I am having a wonderful time, it doesn't mean I can chat my way through a bonk. 3) Night runs. I don't know if I will get any night runs in before Umstead. I know I can get night runs in before Mohican in June, on the course itself. I think that living close to Mohican will help me, because I can do a bunch of training on the course itself. I have to give a shout out to the Stair master machine at the gym. It's my new favorite toy. What a workout!!! This machine has my heart rate up and pounding. Every climb on it, I imagine a fast hike up a hill at Mohican---and maybe even a run!!!
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merigayle
Cool Runner |
posted Feb-07-2007 07:08 AM
Kimba, i bought a stairstepper in Nov and have really enjoyed it for cross training, My coach has me using it 2x per week and i have done up to 75 mins on it. It is so fabulous. Not at first though, but now it is
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