posted Dec-07-2006 07:13 AM               

You could probably walk 13.1 in under 4 hrs. backwords!

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posted Dec-07-2006 09:32 AM            

The knee is a bit "achy" today....I'm trying to do this without Advil (except right after my runs) to not mask any significant issues. Today is a rest day and then 3 more tomorrow. 6 on Sunday.

As Eryn suggested, I'll probably come up with some ratio to use during the half marathon. My problem is that I don't want to admit that I'm going to have to walk part of it, so I'm not exactly training that way. I'll probably just wind up running until I can't run anymore, then walking for a little while. That's not how you're supposed to run/walk a race, but maybe it'll work.

Come on Troy...I need a training run report to keep me amused.

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Matt
azredbirds

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posted Dec-07-2006 09:34 AM            

The knee is a bit "achy" today....I'm trying to do this without Advil (except right after my runs) to not mask any significant issues. Today is a rest day and then 3 more tomorrow. 6 on Sunday.

As Eryn suggested, I'll probably come up with some ratio to use during the half marathon. My problem is that I don't want to admit that I'm going to have to walk part of it, so I'm not exactly training that way. I'll probably just wind up running until I can't run anymore, then walking for a little while. That's not how you're supposed to run/walk a race, but maybe it'll work.

Come on Troy...I need a training run report to keep me amused.

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Matt
azredbirds

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posted Dec-07-2006 02:35 PM            

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Matt
azredbirds

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posted Dec-07-2006 06:51 PM            

I dreaded 20 milers for 3 years. It hurt me in my training after my first marathon. But this last weekend, I looked forward to it for an entire week.

I know this is easier said than done, and I think the training programs kind of build to this point and end up causing dread, but please, don't dread the 20. Enjoy it. Get it done. Smile.

All my best,
Billy

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posted Dec-07-2006 10:36 PM               

I think thats why recovering from my ITBS has been so hard on me, I was run/walking during training for PF Changs where since I got hurt and rehabbed I havent done any walking while running. Just gutting it out, no walking ( well except water stops during races )

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posted Dec-08-2006 10:16 AM               

One thing making me nervous though is my foot. I know I said earlier that I hurt it but then it was back to normal. Well, after my run on Wed. it got pretty tender again, I think it is sprained. One of my run mentors said that it should be okay for the run and just see how it goes but that the best thing to do for a sprained foot is to run on it. Sounded weird to me but...I don't know. Any of you have experience with this? I'm gonna give it a shot tomorrow and hopefully just won't have to cut it short!

Good luck to all of you on your long runs this weekend, we're getting close!!!

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posted Dec-08-2006 10:36 AM            

If you have a mentor telling you it's OK to run, then I'd do it. I'd just take it pride-crushingly slow, bring a cell phone, and decide ahead of time that it's OK to turn back early. I'd probably take an extra rest day or 2 as well. If that doesn't help, you probably need to see the doctor. I've heard that it is better to seek a doctor that knows about runners and running.

This from the Dept. of Obvious Advice,
Billy

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posted Dec-09-2006 12:08 AM               

Last week I put in fifty miles or so including my rather encouraging long run on the ice, and then took the weekend off. I ran a bit Monday, then had to travel for work Monday night, coming back Thursday night. Got in runs Tuesday through Thursday though, so that was good. Some of the interesting winter weather we get around here has arrived in force. Nine inches of snow Sunday and Sunday night has become 4 inches of snow under a crunchy ice crust. The roads are a sheet of ice, sanded in places but not in others. Apparently, during my absence, it was in the high 30s.

So there I am, getting off the airplane last night, thinking ahead to the weekend. My wife and I sing in (actually, we organize and I direct, if you can call it that...) a community choir. We have a practice scheduled for Friday night, another for Saturday morning, and a performance Saturday night. We normally practice Monday nights, but we rarely have more than 60% of our members there at any one time, so it is a bit of a challenge to get organized. We're trying to make sure we're sort of shipshape for tomorrow...

So why is he telling us about this anyway?...what does he think this is, communitychoirs.com?

Wait, it gets better. Sunday, my wife is leaving for a six day mom and daughter trip, and our son and I are staying. This is payback for a trip a while back when the son and I left Mom and daughter home.

So...perhaps it's familyvacationplanning.com?

Now, finally, to the running. Or lack thereof. When am I going to schedule a long run? I was intending to run 3 consecutive weekends with 20 milers before the taper. This coming weekend was to be the first of those weekends. I took last weekend off without a long run, and now I'm all ready. But I can't imagine where I'm going to fit this long run in. The only time left on the calendar is Sunday morning, which is non-negotiable. That's bible study. I only grudgingly make allowance for marathons in that time slot, and never training runs. So there it is, in order to get a long run in this weekend, I have to find care for my son. Perhaps I'll go ahead and do that Sunday afternoon, but I'm not sure at this point if I will or not.

Babysitting.com?

Getting off the plane, in addition to all of this fun, I'm thinking about something else. Ice. It's slick here. I decide that before I run to work the next morning I'd better put sheet metal screws in the bottom of my shoes. No problem. I wait until Friday morning (that's today) and run down to do it. But...I can only find 18 screws. Now that's not going to mean very much to anybody that hasn't done this exercise before...but that's about the right number of screws for one shoe. I don't know where I put all the packages I bought! Actually...now that I think about it...that was a couple years ago...and I've given away a lot of them whenever somebody didn't have any...I might actually be out. Oops. Time for the kids to catch the bus, I walk them out to the bus stop, then come back and make do with 9 screws in each sole. The run to work...could be worse. But I definitely don't have enough in the forefoot. I'm slipping pretty good at toe-off.

I get to work and complain to a coworker...and she has extra screws right in her office! I add another 8 to each shoe, and am ready to go at lunch. A nice 3 miles. But now she's slipping all over the place. She's had a few too many miles on her screws and she can slide all over on them. The little ridges around the hex head get smooth and then they don't do much good...so we replace them. Maybe Monday she'll have some traction.

So where does that leave me? Traction problem solved, I can do my next long run in any conditions. Babysitting problem not solved (haven't tried yet), I may not get to do one for another week. Choir problems definitely not solved, less than half the choir showed up for the practice that they asked me to schedule for tonight...

Maybe I'll run 13 miles to practice tomorrow morning...

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Troy

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posted Dec-10-2006 11:05 PM               

Anyway, ran my first 20-miler today and have another scheduled in 2 weeks (we'll run it Xmas Eve on the canal). I'm really looking forward to the race after so many months of waiting!

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posted Dec-12-2006 06:04 AM               

Well all, guess we have to take the good with the bad... The 1/2 Marathon I ran Sun. was a bust! Dropped-out around 10.5 miles... Had wanted to quit at every mile past 4, but just kept telling myself to keep going... When I hit the 10 mile mark and I noticed that my pace was a few seconds slower than what I had run a 12 mile training run just a few weeks ago that included some hills, and this race is all down hill! What the heck!!! What's going on? I felt pretty much like crap starting a day or so before the race. I thought it was just a cold... My wife insisted I go to the Dr., much to my resistance, found out I have bronchitis... Guess the good news...the feeling of wanting to quit mid-run wasn't just in my head... my body was trying talk to me, but I wouldn't listen!

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posted Dec-12-2006 11:31 AM            

So I ran my 6 on Sunday morning....Knee felt "ok"...Not 100%, but the tightness and pain I could deal with. I got home, iced quickly, showered and went to the mall with my wife and daughter. While at the mall my knee started hurting...On the outside. Not the inside where it has been hurting, but on the outside. Got progressively worse, but felt fine when I sat down to drive to Target. While at Target, it initially felt okay, but started hurting worse and worse to the point that I couldn't put any weight on it or really bend it. It didn't hurt to sit, particularly if I elevated my leg. I sat around most of the rest of the day on Sunday, and it felt better yesterday. It feels even better today. I'm supposed to run 2-3 miles tomorrow, but I'm kind of afraid to. Any ideas? Is it related to my old injury or is this something new? Would I be better off (since I'm run/walking the thing anyway) to take more time off?

Ugh...I may never run again after this race.

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Matt
azredbirds

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posted Dec-12-2006 02:06 PM               

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posted Dec-13-2006 09:11 AM               

Matt~I just don't know about that knee. If it were me I might take as much as an extra 3-4 days off...like you said, since you're run/walking anyway it shouldn't make much of a difference.That way you can feel it out and see what you think.My knees have been a problem for me too...the pain seems to shift, like you were saying. But I started taking glucosamine a couple weeks ago and it seems to have made a BIG difference. Maybe you could try that!

Welcome back Molly! I remember you b/c I remember thinking that it must be nice to have homes in two such nice places! Hope you have fun hanging out in Phoenix over the holidays!

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posted Dec-13-2006 12:05 PM               

i felt great through mile 10 in tucson, but then i slowed down in the headwinds and blew my pr chance. ran 1:21, my slowest for this course; tucson is a screaming fast course and i usually run it 3 min faster than flat half marathons. so it fits with my 1:24 at AFC in san diego in august.

my plan includes an ez 22 this weekend, then a hard 23 miler (last 5 at MP) next weekend, followed by a three week taper. it's the same plan as my taper for hartford back in october.

here's hoping for no wind in phoenix!

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mcsolar99
workouts

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posted Dec-13-2006 05:38 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mcsolar99:
here's hoping for no wind in phoenix!

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Being a valley native I would say it would be highly unlikely for there to be strong winds that time of year. Not to say that it isnt possible, but highly unlikely

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posted Dec-14-2006 02:01 AM               

I had a lady lined up to pick up my son after school, and was going to take the afternoon off and do a long run, then go pick him up. This would have left me with no real time constraints, which is good when I’m running long. I don’t like to spend hours stressing over how fast I’m running. It leads to…well…runs like yesterday. In the morning, the lady called and (sounding terrible) let me know that she didn’t think she was up for it as she was very sick. Now, all of a sudden, I have to face a complete revision of my weekly running schedule or punt. I rearrange my weekly running schedule all the time, but it was a bit more stressful this time, because I hadn’t gotten in a long run in two weeks. My intended schedule actually still would have had me finishing my long run on time, but I really didn’t have a huge time cushion. Well, maybe I did, at 45 minutes, but it doesn’t seem like much when it’s a question of whether my first grade son will arrive home with no supervision.

So on the one hand, I have time to do this, but on the other hand I’m a bit paranoid. One of my running co-workers was asking me about my long run, since I had told her the plan the previous day. I described the dilemma, and she offered to provide backup…so there it was. I was to call her when I got back and if she didn’t hear from me by 20 minutes from when the bus was supposed to arrive, she would go to our house and meet the bus. So far, so good.

So, I take the faithful dog, Choco, and start on what will be 19.2 miles instead of the 21.2 I had been running the past couple times. We had a few snow showers recently, and the glaze ice from two weeks ago was completely a thing of the past. But I noticed less than a mile into my run that the traction wasn’t as great as I might have hoped. I had left the shoes that had sheet metal screws behind since there was snow. Packed snow is usually wonderful for traction. But it had been cold the entire time these recent snow showers had occurred (…like, duh…he says it’s cold when it snows…no, really! Snow that falls when it is colder than 25F is totally different, very dry, not sticky, sort of like running in sand…oh, nevermind…). Since there hadn’t been a snowplow recently on the rather low priority section of road I run on for my long runs, it was all packed down by tire tracks but not cleared off. Since the snow didn’t really stick to itself very well, it lent the illusion of traction but would slip right at toe-off. Ugh. Not very fun.

Meanwhile, I’m running and, that’s right, looking at my watch the whole time. The run was intended to be just a steady long run, but now all of a sudden I’m trying to make it a consistently fast one. Never mind that the traction is bad, I have a hydration pack on that I have to remember to sip out of every couple minutes or the drink hose will freeze (when will I remember to get the little neoprene hose warmer?), it is colder than I like, and I’ve chosen the windiest day of the last week to run. Those are just details. The farther I go, the fewer tire tracks, and the worse the traction. By the time I get to the turn around point I’m sort of wiped out, and of course only half done. But at least it is a beautiful day.

Fresh snow is hard to beat. In winter, the low-angle sunlight really picks up the texture of the snow and makes it stand out in gorgeous detail. Yesterday, the sun shined for the first half of the run, and I was running down a semi-wooded corridor straight out of a Dr. Seuss winter scene. Coming back, as my legs started complaining about the effort and the wind started hitting me straight on in the face, I tried to focus on more enjoyable things, like snow on branches. Monday, I had given Choco a true poodle trim, so he was looking very foofy (or stately, depending who you ask…) and he was enjoying himself immensely. He had on his snow booties to prevent him getting snowballs between his toes, and that always makes him run funny, sort of like a high-stepping trotting horse. Between the poodle haircut and the high stepping, he looked like some sort of an advertisement for a poodle breeder.

Okay, that’s all fine, but in between all this trying to enjoy myself and the niggling reality that I just wasn’t doing that well on this journey has been the creeping realization that I’ve made a couple of errors. First, the slipping around of the shoes is translating to slipping around of the feet inside the shoes. I can feel that my little toes are both going to have beautiful blisters. Best not to think about that, because with blisters the problem is usually starting again…just keep going. Like Christine Clark in the Olympic Trials. Deal with them later.

The other problem is that I’ve somehow committed major preparatory error #1. Taped nipples? Check…uh, oh, hold that check. Forgot to tape the nipples. Wind in my face, things are starting to hurt. I wonder if I can tough this one out? Now here’s the funny thing…I ran a couple miles before I remembered that I can usually adjust my hydration pack to solve this problem for me. After I got a bit desperate I finally remembered this detail, cinched it way down, and eliminated the issue. Why do I have to learn all these lessons over and over and over, anyway?

Final two miles arrives, and I’m still having trouble. Two times I talk myself into taking walking breaks of 100 steps each. Wow, I haven’t done that to myself on a long run in months. I can’t remember when I last did that. What’s up, anyway? And why am I so tired today? Finally, with 0.75 miles left, I emerge back onto plowed road…WOW! It’s like being shot from a cannon. Well, maybe not, but I did run really easily and have no more motivational problems. Of course, it was only 0.75 miles…

As usual, more questions than answers. Did I really run that hard? Did my initial preoccupation with time translate to overdoing it early in poor conditions? Or was this just one of those days? In the end, I averaged 10:37/mile. Whether that would be 10:36 or 9:36 on pavement I can’t tell. That’s part of the great mystery of training in winter. I’ll find out some of the answers on race day…

And of course, I made it back a couple minutes before expected even with all the agonizing, had lots of time and was there for my son to get home. And the really important thing is that we added a lot of stuff to our wish list at cabelas.com (he’d like to do that every day if he could talk me into it) and played, “Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?” Not sure which was more excruciating, the long run or the computer game, but both had their rewards. And I actually liked both even while I suffered through them…

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Troy

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posted Dec-14-2006 08:39 AM               

Between now and then, of course, I will get the tuition bill and wonder what it is I am paying for as he seems to be out of school longer than he is in.

Anyway, he won his age group (U19) at the Hartford half in 2005 and I paced him to a 2+ min PR this year.

My daughter is in grad school in Mesa but having been a sprinter in HS (holds the school record in the 100) she has too many of the wrong kind of twitch muscles. She and I will be doing 12 min miles and some Gallawalking.

Well, at least Brightroom will get us all in the same shot after we've crossed the finish line as the boy child will probably not want to run at her pace (you should see the two of them when we go skiing!!!)

See you all in a few weeks. Luckily, it is warm enough in CT now that we can still run outside in shorts and singletts.

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hdh

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posted Dec-16-2006 04:06 AM               

Hoping to run one more 20+ next week. Take it easy the next week with perhaps another easy 20 @ 10 days out. I know this may be pushing it a bit and looking back over my running log, it seems that I have the best training runs and feel the most recovered 7-10 days after the long run.

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posted Dec-17-2006 06:10 PM               

A couple of things really stood out. First, I spent a lot of time seeking better traction and never found it. This is becoming a recurring theme lately. As it turns out, the glare ice progression long run from a couple weeks back was much better than this. Ugh.

Second, I need to get rid of the stop watch until traction improves. It is hard to concentrate on anything other than how much slower you're moving than you hoped when you've got a watch going and splits rolling through your head. My long run this past week and now this tempo run have been extremely frustrating in part because I focused on time, when the conditions were not friendly for speed. I have never run a marathon while wearing a stopwatch. I had been contemplating running this one with my watch since I'm actually sort of interested in a time goal, but after this past week I think I'll just leave it at home. I suspect I'll be able to make my sub-4, but I don't know that I want to fret over the details for the entire race.

Third, rythm is incredibly important. The biggest problem with the traction is that there will be two good steps and then a slip step, then another few slip steps, then a couple good ones. In the 1.5 miles each direction where there was actually decent traction it felt like I would really get rolling, then hit more challenging stuff.

So was it a tempo run? It felt like it. I'm calling it one, but the pace wasn't really up to what my tempo runs have been lately.

This all leaves me with no way to train really other than perceived effort, so that's going to be the focus for the next few weeks or until traction improves.

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Troy

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posted Dec-20-2006 02:25 PM               

This week I got my race information for the PF Chang Marathon in the mail. The packet tells me what corral I've been assigned to, what my estimated finish time was from my registration request, and my race number. Keep in mind that when I signed up, I hadn't been through much of the training, and I didn't know what sort of training I'd manage for this event. Since then, I've laid out the highest mileage, most consistent training of my life, and I'm pretty confident that I'll be within sneezing distance of 4 hours, perhaps comfortably below it. But when I signed up, I wasn't sure at all about that...

So I am assigned to corral 7 based on my estimated finishing time of 4:20. Now, I don't much care about starting a bit slow, as that is my normal mode of operation. I like running slow and then gradually speeding up and passing people rather than having them stream by me when I'm dying. Brings back too many overzealous 5K memories. But Tampa was the largest marathon I've ever run, and there were fewer than 2000 runners (though there were also the half marathoners, not sure how many of them). This time, there are going to be a lot more than that...in fact my race number is in the 7000s (which I perhaps incorrectly assume relates to the number of entrants).

I've heard of people getting stuck running with no elbow room and stuck behind other runners. Hasn't happened to me yet. So ever since the packet came, I've been sort of wondering how much I ought to worry about this? After all, if I was planning my run without the corral and estimated finish time constraints that are already imposed, I'd probably want to line up with the 4:05 or 4:10 groups. Not sure it is worth worrying about this, but it's forced me to think seriously about how much mental energy to put into this question of aiming for a specific finish time.

My preliminary conclusion at this point is that this is probably a good opportunity, just like with the frustration of the snow runs lately that don't correspond well to times I feel like I'm running, to relax and stop stressing about the time aspects. Having never run a big marathon, having never been in shape like this, and having never aimed at a time goal, I think I'll try to tread the middle road. Start with my assigned corral. Most people start too fast anyway, is my normal experience. Pay attention to the first couple of mile splits, try to move through the pack without making it out to be a life or death situation. It's not. Rely on the training to carry me along. And all the weaving around I've been doing to try to find better traction might even be viewed as training for dodging runners. And above all, enjoy the experience for the first 20 miles, because my previous experience is that after that, it's just work, no matter how you slice it...

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Troy

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posted Dec-20-2006 04:04 PM               

Simon

[This message has been edited by lbigrunner (edited Dec-20-2006).]

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posted Dec-21-2006 05:38 PM               

I also was glad to hear that it isn't that crowded running in a big race. I'm looking forward to it.

Today was a fairly mundane 21 mile long run. Unless you count that it was -6 degrees F. Or that I ran the first hour in the dark, got to the turn around at Naknek Lake just in time to watch the sun come up, and back home at noon. I had my hydration pack inside my jacket to try to keep the hose from freezing up. I decided to try to mimic the race realities by stopping to walk whenever I drank. I had to unzip my jacket and dig out the hose with huge mittens on my hands anyway, so it seemed reasonable. I've never learned to drink out of a cup while running, so unless they have straws in the cups, I'll have to walk while drinking anyway.

That much went fine, but I was completely overhydrated, which is a pattern for me this winter. Trying to keep my hose from freezing has been the primary culprit these last few weeks. Not sure what my problem was today. As a result, I had to stop four times to empty the bladder...that is something that isn't very ideal for racing so I intend to just drink as much as I feel thirsty for during the race.

I also enjoyed contemplating the frost formations around the edges of my balaclava, hood, and the brim of my cap. Not to mention the ice around my eyes and eyelashes. Perhaps not something that will translate well for most entrants in the race...

In the end, the run took quite a bit longer than the same run has recently. I'll need to be more efficient with my hydration and will need to eliminate the restroom breaks for the race. I wasn't trying to run hard and didn't look at a watch the whole time, but it took me 10 minutes longer than normal overall, and I felt like I was running it faster than usual.

Traction was better, the road finally got plowed sometime this past week and it was much better in that regard. Ah, the joys of training for a race in Arizona during and Alaska winter...

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Troy

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posted Dec-21-2006 08:55 PM               

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posted Dec-21-2006 09:42 PM               

Thanks for the boost! When I moved here I went running a couple times the first winter and then it was just too easy to let it drop. On short runs, the preparation could be longer than the run itself before I had any sort of familiarity with what to wear and easy identification of the appropriate ensemble for any particular conditions. A couple winters as new parents in serious winter and running falling off meant...nothing. No exercise. I finally decided to just wade in and stick with it just before our second child was born, and now I find it isn't that big a deal. But it still seems/sounds crazy to a lot of people I know, including those that live here.

What makes me nervous is different depending on the season. In the warmer weather it is bears. I'd rather not meet one while running. I really am embarrassed to say I haven't bought a canister of pepper spray. I need to get one, it really is a sensible thing.

In winter, it is the amount of clothing. Not as in there is too much clothing. More like, if I get an injury (which I thankfully have very little experience with...) and I'm six miles from home and have to limp back, do I have enough clothes so I won't freeze to death? I find it interesting that people stress the importance of not overdressing for running. At below zero temperatures in a place this sparsely populated, I always have an extra piece of super warm something, usually for my head, and dress slightly warm. I'm determined not to get injured. I'm also determined to survive any such event if it does happen...

I heard my first winter here somebody say that there is no such thing as bad weather, just people who are poorly dressed. I believe that except for one exception. If the wind is blowing over 30 mph, that's bad weather regardless of what I'm wearing. Other than high winds, I find I can dress to be comfortable in pretty much anything.

I did see that they will let you petition for a corral change at the expo, I'll give that a try. Is it relatively painless or are they going to be doing a VO2Max exam to see whether the request is warranted? Just curious...I would like to line up with the 4:05 group though.

I don't know where we'll be staying, as I have a number of family members in the area and I'm not sure our schedule has been sorted out as far as where we'll be when. One of them lives not too far from the finish, so that might make sense, but we need to have a multi-party conference call just to sort it out...and that probably won't happen...but I'll be there one way or another...well, let me temper that with, "barring unforseen disasters..."

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Troy

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