| Author |
Topic: PF Chang January 2007 |
rhoon phast
Cool Runner |
 posted Nov-06-2006 08:45 PM
   
Ooohhh, Matt! That sounds bad, best get it looked at pronto. If you can find a practice that specializes in sportsmedicine, it is helpful for athletic injuries. Good luck, and I hope it gets better soon. My first (and only) major running injury was PF, was running hard and not replacing my shoes or keeping track of miles. I've become very careful since then about the shoes I buy, rotating multiple pairs, and making most of my runs exceedingly easy efforts with only one or two hard runs per week. So far, so good. It's been 6 years since my PF cost me a half year of running.Today was one of my hard workouts. I was intending to run an 11 mile tempo this weekend, but my wife and I were part of an art show this weekend, and I just couldn't get it together yesterday. Today I got out and kicked it off with a moderate warmup segment at 9:20 pace, then ratcheted it down until I was sub 8:00 pace (barely) for a couple miles running into a pretty stiff headwind. I sort of ran out of air and had to ease off, but still came home at 8:30 pace, so overall it was quite a successful tempo for me. I'm hoping to get to the point where a 9:00 pace feels too easy to mention. Not there yet, but here's hoping. I figure this coming weekend to run a slow, easy 20, then the following weekend I intend to put in a 20 mile progression run. That should really get my attention...haven't ever done one of those before. Khannouchi I'm not, my last couple miles will be aimed at 8:30 instead of 4:30, but we'll see. Keep training folks (but take care of those injuries first and foremost, obviously...and Matt, there really is a next year so don't kill yourself over this one...). ------------------
Troy Running resume My running log
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eryn23
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-06-2006 10:49 PM
Matt~ So sorry to hear about your injury!!! Troy is right though, don't feel bad about taking the time off. God knows there's always another marathon. It's disappointing but at least you're going through it now and not a week before the race. Keep us up to date!! Troy~ Sounds like your training is going well!! I can barely hold a 10 min pace on long runs so you are definitely doing better than me!!! My own training is still going pretty well. Was supposed to do an easy 4 on Sunday but had a bakesale for my fundraising (earned $500!!!) and then had to go to work...had no time  And tomorrow is the BIG DAY-election day!!!!! I will be doing precinct walks, phone banking all afternoon and then have to go to work, but hopefully will have time to squeeze in a run somewhere. As the mileage keeps creeping up, I hate missing even my shorter runs during the week, I feel like I'm cheating myself. Talk to you soon!!! Erin
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rhoon phast
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-07-2006 03:08 AM
Eryn, don't be fooled...I don't run faster than 10 minute miles on my long runs either...in fact I'm usually closer to 10:30 per mile for anything over 15. Once I strap on my hydration pack anything faster than 10:30 feels like hard work, and I go for slow on my long runs. I'm hoping a couple of progression long runs will give me a better picture of how well I can do when I'm tired, but haven't run any of those yet. At this point in training, 11 miles is in that 'tweener range where it is further than I run most days, but it isn't really a long run. I'm doing long tempo runs because I figure it will translate better to marathon conditioning than a 6 mile tempo effort would. Don't really know if that's true, just seems to make sense. Saturday I'm aiming for 20, the following Saturday I'll try 20 with a fast finish. Great news on the bake sale, but I know how tough it can be to get the runs in when everything is going crazy. Keep after it, you'll thank yourself on race day for the runs you made time for. ------------------
Troy Running resume My running log
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tommy14277
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-07-2006 05:21 AM
Matt - Sharp pain. Not good. There are some pains you can run through and some you can not. Until you get an expert opinion, you may want to hold off any more runs. If you don't have enough time to recover for PF, there is a great "half" in Mar. I did it last year called "Valley of The Sun". It is out by us. Sort of. North of Hywy 60 up Ellsworth about 10 miles.Eryn - 500 bucks selling baked goods! Awesome. How much more to reach your goal? Troy - Sounds like you got it nailed. for the sub 4. Keep it up. Only got in 2 runs last weeks, but logged a 10 & got that 18 miler in. Felt really good on the 10 & avg. 9:15 pace. (usually !0:00) Was running about 10:20's for the first 14 miles of the 18 & closer to 11:00 for the last 4 miles. I'm begining to realize a Marathon is a long long run. I'ts been three weeks in a row of increasing the long run. 13.5, 16, 18, and think I better back off this week. My plan this week is 35 miles, running 5 days @ shorter runs. Nothing over 10. Then, next week go for the elusive 20 with only 3 runs scheduled that week. Tom
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sandert
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-07-2006 05:41 PM
Hi there, fellow AZ runner here. I did the PF Chang's HM last year with my 14yo son. We had a blast. I did the Twin Cities marathon on Oct 1st and didn't want to push training for the PF Full, but I recovered quickly and am planning on the Lost Dutchman in Feb and am thinking about doing PF 1/2 again as it is 1 month before that. Thoughts? Stephen ------------------
PR Marathon 5:22 (Twin Cities Marathon 2006)
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azredbirds
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-07-2006 10:11 PM
Welcome sandert ...Interesting little group we have forming here.Went to the doctor today....It's some muscle that I can't remember the name of...Solaris? Strabismus? Neither one of those is right, of course, but it's something like that....Anyway...It starts high on the leg and wraps around the side of the knee...Apparently I've strained it....I wonder how? PT, rest, ice, anti-inflammatories...You know the drill.... It is hoped that I don't have to take too much time off, and don't have to give up on PF Chang's....We'll see.... Wish me luck!! ------------------
Matt
azredbirds
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rhoon phast
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-08-2006 02:26 AM
Stephen, perfect timing for a 1/2 before the Lost Dutchman. Should work out and give you a chance to test yourself a bit too.Matt, that's better news than I thought you'd get. Hoping you get over it soon and are back on track. Putting in miles... ------------------
Troy Running resume My running log
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eryn23
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-08-2006 09:47 AM
Matt~YAY! That doesn't sound too bad! At least not detrimental to the marathon. Just enjoy that time off and hopefully you will be back and better than ever in a week or two!!!I haven't had as much time for running this week...will have a nice longer run tonight though with my running group. Now I will have more time though with the election being over. And the candidate I was volunteering for WON last night!!!! Beat a 5 term incumbent...so I am happy today  Welcome Stephen! Hope you will keep checking in and let us know how you're doing! Hope everyone else is still trucking along, injury free!!!
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tommy14277
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-09-2006 12:29 AM
Just asking. Anyone considering hooking up with a pace/time group?Also, thoughts on the taper. It seems most programs have you running your longest run 4 weeks b-fore the marathon then a three week taper ending with the race. Does it seem that this "longest" run is too far away from the actual race? My friend @ work has talked me into doing the 1/2 marathon in Tucson on dec. 10th. At first I didn't think it would be wise racing before the marathon, but the more I think about it perhaps could be a good thing. Treat it as a training run. Maybe go for a pace 10-15 sec. per mile faster than the pace planned for for the full marathon? Maybe this will then see if my goal for the marathon is realistic?
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rhoon phast
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-09-2006 03:32 AM
I've never really considered hooking up with a pace group, mostly because I like to reserve the right to just run based on how I feel. Perhaps it would be wise to try sometime. I'll have to think about that one. As far as the taper, the program you are mentioning seems pretty standard. Three weeks, with the longest run sometime in the three to five weeks out range. I've tried to train up closer to marathons, and I can tell you that it makes you noticeably more tired during the race to have run 15 miles or more within two weeks of the marathon. Of course, for some people that number might differ. Is this your first marathon? You will be making it up as you go, if so, and I would recommend that you don't overdo those last couple weeks thinking it will help you in the marathon. It won't. But it might hurt. If you think it is just too far out, run your last long run 18 days before the race instead of 21, but don't get too much closer. The half marathon is great timing, many elites try to schedule a half around a month before their marathon to help give a system check. It's also a great time to put in a really fast 1/2 time, as you have a lot of training, and it gives you the feeling that the slightly slower marathon pace is easy by comparison. Where I live, I've never had the option of doing this, but I've taken to running long tempo runs as a substitute for race opportunities like this. ------------------
Troy Running resume My running log
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spinach
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-09-2006 11:07 AM
I am running the marathon again in January (I ran it in 2005 also). I hoped to try to go under three but I don't think I am in shape to get there. I will give it a shot but I won't be too disappointed if I don't get the goal.I got an email with a discount code for registering before November 15.
$10 off the marathon use code AZFULL10
$5 off the half marathon use code AZHALF5 The registration prices also go up on the 15th and so if you are thinking of registering, do so before next Wednesday and use these codes and you'll save some. Good luck on everyone's training. ------------------
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eryn23
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-09-2006 11:59 AM
Yeah, I probably won't hook up with a pace group...I mean, you can still kind of follow them if you want I guess.There are several people in my running group that I'm doing PF Chang's with who are also doing the Las Vegas Marathon, which is Dec. 9th. I can't imagine doing that but they are much more experienced runners. I think you should be fine to do that 1/2 on the 10th, plus it will be fun! I had a good run last night...7 miles of hill repeats. It was a little tough but good...the hills we do here are from hell, they are absolutely nuts. Makes for a great hill workout though! How's everyone feeling?
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tommy14277
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-09-2006 12:14 PM
Troy - Thanks for the imput. Because of my work schedule, I do my "long" run on Thursdays. If I follow most training plans, this would mean 24 days between my last long run & the marathon. Cutting one week off would put me @ 17 days. Would this one week make a difference? Perhaps not. I remember reading somewhere that the maximum benefit of the long run isn't realized somewhere between 10-14 days after the run. This being the case, I think I should be ok.
My only apprehension of running the half marathon in Dec., is running it too hard and having this get in the way of having the juice to get in my 20+ runs.Tom
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azredbirds
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-09-2006 04:05 PM
I've only been reading stuff about half-marathons, so I don't know much (if anything) about tapering for a full marathon (1/2s require much less taper). That being said, I think 17 days of taper should be sufficient, though I do know my buddy who is coming out to run the full is doing 3 weeks of taper (21 days).Had my first PT appointment today...Not nearly as encouraging....He confirmed that it is indeed the (insert s-word here) muscle (I still can't seem to remember the name of the muscle). He confirmed that by doing a lot of the same exam and then squeezing the %$*& out of my leg right where it hurts....Ouch. Anyway, better safe than sorry, I suppose...he just wanted to confirm that it wasn't the ACL, meniscus or more common stuff. Apparently, my injury isn't all that common. Long story short, I'm on the shelf at least a week, but more likely 2. I think I'm toast...At least for running the whole thing. I might still be able to run/walk it, and then try again next year. More PT next week and then we'll reevaluate. It sounds like you guys are all doing great, and that's awesome. Keep up the work guys!! ------------------
Matt
azredbirds
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eryn23
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-09-2006 04:37 PM
Matt~ That sucks At least you know what it is though. Even 2 weeks off might not put you too far behind, I wouldn't give up quite yet. I will be thinking of you and hoping you have a speedy recovery!! Erin
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azredbirds
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-10-2006 12:24 AM
Thanks eryn...How's the fundraising going?You mentioned working on a campaign...Was it Mitchell's? You are one of our local Arizonans, right? ------------------
Matt
azredbirds
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eryn23
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-10-2006 01:50 AM
Matt~ Fundraising is good, I have raised about $3200 of the $3600 that I need. So I am feeling pretty good about that.No, I live in Louisville, Kentucky. The guy I was working for was basically my role model. He was the founder of an alternative newsweekly here in town(I'm a journalism major), a fairly liberal democrat...he took out a 5 term incumbent and it was so amazing. Anyway, enough of that, I could go on forever!! I'm such a dork about that kind of stuff. Anyway, I'm not local...pretty far away actually!
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choover
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-10-2006 03:12 PM
Just wanted to say "HI" from Montana!! I've been thinking about doing this half and found your thread. I ran my first half this Sept. and am trying to decide about Phoenix. My main concerns right now are: 1) Do I have enough time to build back up as my longest runs are currently at 8 miles?
2) How hot is it gonna be? My training will be done in the winter Montana climate so if it's hot in Phoenix, I'll be in trouble.
3) I've never been in a race this big before and am worried about all the logistics -- where to stay, traveling, shuttles, etc.. Any advice would be appreciated. ------------------
choover
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tommy14277
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-10-2006 08:15 PM
Welcome choover !JMO 1. What does the rest of your week look like in terms of miles?
If you can run 8 now & keep the rest of runs during the week. Here
is what I might do to feel confident... progress your 8 - 10 - 8 - 12 - 8 - 14 - 10 - 8 - RACE. 2. The weather is gorgeous here in Jan!! Expect temp. to be mid 40's low 50's @ race start. Maybe mid 60's by afternoon. Also expect low humidity as well. 2. Where to stay?? I live in east valley probably 25 miles from the start. If you have not already checked out the PF Chang web., I believe there should be some recomendations to answer all of your questions. Take a look & let me know and I'll be happy to help if you need anything else. Tom
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choover
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-11-2006 04:17 PM
Tommy,Thanks for the info. I'll dig deeper into the website regarding accomodations. Since running the half on Sept. 17, I've been pretty consistent with keeping my mileage in the 20-25 mile per week range. Most weeks I run 5 days with the runs ranging from 3 to 8 miles. Per your schedule it looks like I'd be fine for building back up to a 14 miler. When building up for the other half, I maxed out at 32 mpw with one 14 miler. 40 - 50 degree temps sounds perfect! ------------------
choover
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rhoon phast
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-11-2006 11:33 PM
Well...another week down, 62 miles in the tank. Can't believe I've popped another 60+ mile week, I'm starting to feel like I might surprise myself with this much conditioning...assuming I avoid overuse injuries. I rotate mostly two, but as many as four, pairs of shoes from different manufacturers. They are each different to run in and feel as though they change my stride slightly and vary the treatment my feet and body gets from each run. I also take glucosamine every day, I noticed a long time ago that I didn't have any soreness in my knees after a long run if I was taking this stuff. Now I've been on it so long I don't know whether it has any effect or not, but my knees almost never hurt. The 'almost' is because they're usually sore after a marathon. I am alternating weeks, running longer and then backing off, as I build up my miles. I might finally be ready to add another 50+ mile week following this long week, but tomorrow is a day off for sure. Finally, most of my miles are run very slow, and on a variety of terrain but mostly not paved. Will all these things work together to keep me injury free? I have my fingers crossed. So far, no trouble, but we're getting down to the point where a real serious injury can make it difficult to get to the starting line. Today I was intending to run a progression long run, my first. I was going to run 12 miles easy with a friend, and then 7.5 miles starting with slightly slower than marathon pace, then right on, then finishing at faster than MP. Well, it didn't go quite as planned. First, we ran 8 miles on a trail that hadn't been tracked since 1.5 inches of snow yesterday. The trail was an ATV track that had ruts filled with water, that froze, then the water drained from beneath the ice, then the snow fell on top of the ice. Which means we would break through the ice while running. We didn't get hurt, but it certainly changed things. In addition, it is a pretty uneven surface and torn up beneath the snow (where it isn't icy). We made the 8 miles, then were sort of dragging. We were going to put in another 4 miles on the dirt road from town, but she opted out at that point. Don't think it was a punishment though. We have that new snow, which is beautiful, and the sun is at a low angle all the time now, so the low sun on snow was just wonderful. Running through winter wonderland on a clear sunny day, every track standing out. Wish I knew my small mammal tracks better. I was a bit on the fence myself after the run (feeling a bit sluggish), but decided I'd skip the 4 and just do the 7.5 to home, as I was hesitant to overdo it after a long week with a lot of miles (for me). I strapped on my hydration pack and took off, not thinking about the progression effort because I was a bit tired feeling. Pretty quick I noticed that I was running what was probably sub-9 pace. At my first opportunity, I recorded a split and tried to settle into a steady pace that I could maintain. It felt pretty fast, but having never run one of these before, I didn't know what MP would feel like after a long week of running and half of a long run. News flash...it feels like a tempo run. Maybe that means I didn't do it right? Anyway, found out after a couple more miles that I was cruising at 8:30 clip, and made an effort to speed up the last 1.75 miles as that is part of the progression. Average for the final section was 8:00 dead on, but the last mile was substantially faster, at least 10 maybe 20 seconds. I don't know what such a run will do for my conditioning. It was shorter than intended, but I've put in a long week and it was getting cold (started at 18, was 12 degrees when I got home, and I wasn't as prepared as I should have been for the temperature since it is warmer than the past couple days and I wore less than I have been). But I can tell you there is something wonderfully motivating about finishing off a long run with an effort that hard, knowing that you ran that fast when you were tired. I'm intending to do at least one more of these, I'll let everyone know how it goes. ------------------
Troy Running resume My running log
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tommy14277
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-12-2006 06:09 AM
Troy - If you don't break 4hrs. for the PF, somethings wrong. With the effort, miles & pace you are doing, 3:40 sounds about right.60 miles a week huh? 30 here. Originally my plan was a four day run week. Only been avg. three days a week. Have been able to get my long runs though which is the most important. I must be getting stronger though. Just got back from a 10K loop I do and was a little surprised to have run it only (1) minute slower than a 10K race I did last April.
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eryn23
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-12-2006 01:54 PM
Troy~so you think the glucosamine is effective? My boyfriend mentioned that to me and I wasn't really sure what it was, he said it helps your joints ( he played college football). I have been having some pain in my knees....did 15 yesterday and was feeling soreness/tightness about 9-10 miles in, was sore for a couple hours afterward too. You think that stuff would help? Thanks for advice!
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rhoon phast
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-12-2006 02:02 PM
Hi eryn,A number of clinical trials have been done on glucosamine, and most of the results are pretty uninspiring. A recent examination of all data suggested that it does little or nothing...unless you are a runner. I haven't read the study so can't tell you more than that, which was basically the headline result. I can tell you that I noticed a real difference when I was taking it versus when I wasn't after long runs. I went on and off a few times and then decided I ought to just keep on the stuff as I don't like sore knees and what it might mean for me longterm (if anything...not sure it matters but don't want to find out...). If you are interested, you could try it yourself and see if you notice a difference. My experience was that it takes a few days of continuous use before a long run to notice the improvement. Happy running! ------------------
Troy Running resume My running log
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spinach
Cool Runner |
posted Nov-12-2006 08:09 PM
I began taking glucosamine about 5 years ago and I made a few other changes to try to help my knees. I don't know which one worked but my knees are in much better shape now than they were then, or than they were 20 years ago for that matter. So I have continued to take some every day since. I don't know that it works but I am not about to stop using it now.I got in a 21 mile run today at about 7:25 pace, the last several miles were are my race pace so I am feeling a bit better about my chances. Good luck all, here's hoping for a cool and cloudy January 14 in Phoenix. ------------------
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