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Hill Training Ideas for sharing and learning


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Spareribs
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spareribs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are some ideas about hill training that I put together after reading as much as I could from Lydiard, Daws and others, and then adapting those workouts to what works best for me. I hope others chime in with their own thoughts because this post is not a compendium of best practices in hill work; itís simply my own, and it will be helpful if others share their ideas, especially those of you who have learned to adapt TM work to simulate hill work.

First off, why hills? Probably the three drawbacks to distance running are that the fast twitch muscles are not engaged and trained, and because distance running slows the contractual speed of fast twitch muscles you get slower at distances of 100 meters to a mile, and you canít generate much anaerobic energy, especially in fiveK or tenK races.

Hills are a form of resistance training; they build strength. They also engage the fast twitch muscles and they help condition the anaerobic system without the added stress of work on the flat. Unless you have severe AT or other chronic problems in the lower leg or foot, you are not likely to get injured running up a hill. And if you run up the hill with a good knee lift and exaggerated arm swing, you will develop resiliency in the legs that distance work tends to destroy. The dorsiflexor muscles around the ankle get a lot of work and help put a spring in your step. Lydiard used to say, ďMy athletes never got hurt,Ē and he attributed that to the hill work.

Many people I know, myself included for many years, move from the base-building phase of their training right to the track, or tempo work. Lydiard and Daws both advocated heading for the hills for four to six weeks. I like four weeks best (because I get impatient!). The number of workouts you do on hills in a week should be the same as the number of quality workouts you would normally do in a week. For me itís two.

This workout is not Lydiardís ďboundingĒ or ďspringingĒ up the hill, as you may have read about. I donít do it because I donít like to look stupid when I run, and I can never be sure I am doing it right, even though I saw a film of it once. Mine is just plain running up the hill.

Hereís what you do: Go find a hill of no less than 300 meters, no more than a half-mile. A half would be too long for me. My favorite is 400 meters at the lake where I run. A good hill to use is not the one that is called ďDead Manís HillĒ or something like that. The grade should be steep enough to make you work, but not wicked. I think a 15% grade would be the maximum. An ideal hill would be a loop that goes up sharply for a quarter mile and then has a gentle downhill around to the start again but you can't have everything. Go scout around.

Warm up two miles at least. You don't need strides, just warm the muscles. So you jog around until you find yourself at the bottom of your hill. You may want to use your Garmin for distances, but forget about it as far as timekeeping goes for the hill work itself. This workout is entirely done by feel. Donít get trapped trying to see if you can do the next repeat faster than the first one. This is unnecessary. Just measure if you wish, your total distance you would like to work that day and plan your workout accordingly. For me itís about 9 miles. I run 3 miles to my hill, do my workout and run back to my car.

So now youíre warmed up and at the base of the hill. Run up the hill at a good clip, not five or tenK speed, but more like tempo to half marathon speed. Put some energy into it, but not aggressive race pace. (For me, when I was running the fiveK at a 6:43 pace, I did the hills at about 7:15ís, to give you an idea. You will soon see why this is important.)

Now you are at the crest of the hill and here is the good part: you now stride out briskly for 100 to 150 meters, same level of effort but you will pick up a bit of speed because you are now on the flat. This is important, not just because it builds stamina, but for the mental lift it gives you. In a race you tend to see the crest of the hill as a place you can get a break, but that is no way to race. Hammer a bit at the crest of a hill and you will bury everyone around you who backs off. You will lock this into your memory next time you race.

Okay, now you can jog a couple of hundred meters out on the flat, and then turn around and head back. Now on the downhill, let it go again, running smoothly down the hill. You are looking for increased stride length and stride efficiency and a nice loose upper body. Remember that Bill Rodgers who won 4 Bostons, trained up and DOWN Heartbreak Hill. At the bottom another 200 meters (100 meters away, 100 meters back to the base of the hill) and do another one.
When I do this workout for the first time, I do three of these repeats, 3 x up the hill, jog, 3 x down the hill, jog. I would advise doing no more than three the first time so you can see over the next two days how your legs feel. Just donít go crazy the first time you do one and think, ďOh, this is easy.Ē

After I have it down pat, I never do more than 5 of them. I love this workout, and for all the injuries I have had, this one has never done me any harm and has been very helpful to me.
Do the hills for four weeks, then go to the track or other speed work you like. I am sure you will see your fitness improve markedly.

Any others have ideas you would like to share? Let's hear. Spareribs

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enkephalin
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posted Dec-03-2007 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for enkephalin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the great information! You just reminded me of a hill I ran/walked on my summer vacation. Someone had nailed a sign to a tree at the base of the hill. It said "Cardiac Hill"

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mariposai
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posted Dec-03-2007 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mariposai     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Spareribs. I know this hill workout will benefit many people in this forum. As a newbie, I donít have any suggestions here. However, I just want to say that this is the exact workout I followed, thanks to your suggestion, to get ready for my Bellingham marathon where I got a PR of over 30 minutes.

Doing the hill repeats was hard at first, but then it became easier as the weeks progressed. Perseverance and consistency are key here.

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dg12
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posted Dec-03-2007 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dg12   Click Here to Email dg12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Calling on Nobby, the hill specialist.

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rochrunner
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posted Dec-03-2007 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rochrunner   Click Here to Email rochrunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for posting this, Ribs. I have studiously avoided hills, but will probably give this a try next season. My only problem is finding one that's anywhere near long enough, but I'll definitely start looking.

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- Runnin' in Rochester

Rochrunner

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CNYrunner
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CNYrunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I am at a rest stop just outside of Utica, NY---coffee break during white- out conditions and my Honda Civic and my knuckles needed a break. W-I-N-D-Y

What could be better than reading some more Cool Running and a hill workout advice post by Spareribs?!

I do these kind of hill workouts as well and can attest to their effectiveness. A couple additions that might be useful:

Form for the uphill: I had a tendency to look down at the road while running up a hill in an attempt to pretend the road was flat. My late high school coach would stand 3/4 of the way up the hill and yell: "Tinsel Teeth! Pick up your head, watch the fixed point, lift your eyes....etc". I finally listened and now when I approach a hill I look for a point at or near the top of the hill as long as I am not tilting my head up too much. I stay fixed on that point and act as if I am being reeled in. This also straightens me up and helps my arm swing as well. When I did the looking down method, I would curl into the hill too much and lose form and speed.

We also did a series of "up and overs"---run hard up and over the crest of the hill and don't let up until you are half-way down the other side. If you are gaining on an opponent on a hill, they will likely let down as they hit the top and you'll just soar on by as you go "up and over" with ease.

I'll second the advice here on downhills as well if you are running Boston in particular. My quads are always shredded after Boston and more so than other marathons. My college coach wrote up a series of downhill workouts for me as described here. As for form, she suggested that I lean forward a bit more and try to let go as much as possible-- powering from my ankles----try not to brake down the hill even though it's a natural reaction to do so. She calls it running like a child down the hill with abandon. All those uphills will make your knees strong so they can support you when you go screaming down the hill!

I also use the Joan Benoit Samuelson approach and charge hills during all my long runs throughout the season. That sometimes annoys my training partners if we are right into great gossip, but it does work.

I tend to do focused hill repeats for 6 weeks and in the middle of the marathon training cycle---so for Boston, I'll be into the hill repeats in February.

Looks like the snow is letting up a bit and isn't sticking too much. Wish me luck! Love that Lake Effect snow!

Thanks Spareribs....helped me on this drive and I actually love hills.
CNY

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evanflein
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for evanflein     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Ribs, good stuff. My problem is most of my hills that are the right length are way too steep. The alternative is long gradual 2 mile hills (the trip home on my road). Finding just the right grade/length will be a challenge, but now I know what to do with it when I find it!

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perchcreek
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for perchcreek   Click Here to Email perchcreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I totally agree with Spareribs. I think hills are why I've gotten away without weight cross training. I think just "attacking" hills when the opportunity arises also has similar benefits. I have some pretty challenging hills in my long run route and I'll sometimes attack them aggressively as in HR to 90% max by the top. Sometimes I'll do an MP run with a hilly loop like this:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y246/lateboomer/pickett9mi3-7-07s.jpg

Sometimes I'll do my "striders (100m at 5K pace)" specifically on uphills during a recovery run.

For short race distance training attacking those hills at 1/2MP pace would be quite helpful. Great idea!

Be careful of top of foot pain. I had to relace my shoes due to the bending from uphill running. I would just caution against the tendency of running up on the balls of your foot on a steep hill. Keep normal footfalls if possible.

ETA: I think the running down hill with reckless abandon was a major contributor to my PF damage. By trying to relax ALL muscles I think I was forcing the PF to take the impact vs the foot muscles and this pounded the carp out of the PF. I say keep relaxed but not "loose" and fly down the hill leaning into it with arms back for balance. I'm no coach..just IMO. Also, if you have PF starting, the uphill running severly stresses the PF causing more damage. So be certain no PF is going on during hill training.

Steve

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[This message has been edited by perchcreek (edited Dec-03-2007).]

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La Tortuga
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for La Tortuga     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SR - thanks for the info - I have run hills for so many years that I actually like them. I particularly liked your suggestions about a 2 mile warm up as I think that I run mine on tight muscles and the limit of 5 repeats - as I am always sure that no matter how many I do, I have not done enough. Although I would have to add one for a total of 6 in order to actually get back home.

Tinsel Teeth - thanks for your 2 cents as well!

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Coastwalker
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Coastwalker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Tinsel teeth????" Just wondering...

I'm not nearly as precise about my hill work as Mr. Ribs (or many of the rest of you), but I always try to find a hill or two to include in every workout. My strategy is to be aggressive on the hills, but not enough to wear me out. I also try to avoid backing off at the crest of a hill just because it feels good to retain/increase that speed as the terrain levels off.

I also find that I tend to lean too much going up a hill, so focusing on something near the crest helps keep me vertical.

Since I've been focusing a bit on hills, I've found that I can do better going up and over them than a lot of my competitors, and it has made a difference in races in which I had been working to catch someone in front of me. So whatever hill work you do will more than likely be worth the effort.

Jay

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Spareribs
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spareribs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
CNY, you are the best. Let's build on your excellent post and the lesson your coach gave to "Tinsel Teeth" years ago. The issue about form is just this: when you have your head down, it generally forces your shoulders to hunch forward, and this hunching forward collapses the lung capacity and inhibits the diaphragm. Back in college, my coach used to yell "Shoulders back!" intending the same thing. Thanks for that addition.

Also, I forgot to mention that one useful reason for the less than fiveK or tenK speed is so that you come off the workout with a good, upbeat feeling about the workout. Often I read posts here where people say, "I hate intervals!" or, "Oh no, track workout today. Ugh!" It shouldn't be that way. You should feel rejuvenated after a good hill session.

For you elite folks, Daws figures this workout for about 14 miles, so you can imagine the number of repeats he had his runners doing. And Lydiard thought the best hills were a 1:3 gradient. I tried to make this workout useful without it killing you. And yes, any hill known as "Cardiac" is probably not useful for this workout.

Good points re foot problems too Perch. Spareribs

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fjordrunner
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fjordrunner   Click Here to Email fjordrunner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks for this, SR - i've concentrated on LHR and basebuilding for so long that i've crawled up my hills. all my runs have hills, just not sure what the slope is - will have to ask DH to pick one for me that sounds like what you're talking about here. it's definitely time to deal with the hills in my life!
that is... if the road ever gets plowed...

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susan

a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step

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TheProFromDover
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheProFromDover   Click Here to Email TheProFromDover     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ribs,

This is a most excellent thread. I really can't think of anything to add. One thing though, I run straight back down the hill and I do not practice anything except taking it easy, and minimizing impact. But your fast leveling out, and finding a longer way back may actually be option. I will check into it.

BTW, "my" hill is ...

370 yds
145 ft rise
13% grade
about 2min up (1:45 PR)

Maybe MapMyRun it and edit it in here.
http://www.mapmyrun.com/run/united-states/ma/framingham/422223075

ETA: I added a "run out" and gradual return to my route. Now it's .2M up + .7M run out and return. The run out is about .1M level. so it's now .3M effort + .6M return/recovery/interval. This makes each cycle about >8 min. This compares to <5 min. before.

CRaig


[This message has been edited by TheProFromDover (edited Dec-04-2007).]

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smpankowski
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for smpankowski   Click Here to Email smpankowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've picked up a few ideas. Thank you. Most of my runs involve hills larger than what you mention. On the large ones, I don't "make eye contact" with the top of the hill. Some are two miles. I'll pick a mailbox post or dead racoon as my fixed point. Some of the toughest hills are a number of miles from home. I can forget to leave gas in the tank for the return trip. As mentioned in the daily, a love hate relationship can emerge. How do you recover from a big hill and still look kewl to your SO????

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SteveP

My User Profile

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evanflein
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for evanflein     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve WOULD pick a dead raccoon...

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evanflein

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bigapplepie
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bigapplepie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Spareribs:
I think a 15% grade would be the maximum.Spareribs

15%? 15 per cent!!! By gum, you're a right Texas softie? Real men train like this

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ptbrown
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ptbrown     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very, very good! Will you please add it to the Wikki?

Some additional thoughts:

When you climb make the arc of your knee/arm swing match the slope of the hill to get the most efficient stride. In other words, have your knee lift follow the slope of the hill.

Your arms will help you enormously if you drive them. Also, core strength pays off in climbing.

This will sound nonsensical to most of you (but maybe San Souci will appreciate) there are energy fields in the earth and most hills have lines running up them. Sometimes you can tap into to those energy lines if you are alert for them.

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Iapetus999
Cool Runner
posted Dec-03-2007 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Iapetus999   Click Here to Email Iapetus999     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think what's also important is to just have variety in your workouts. I try not to repeat the same run twice in one week. I think adding a hilly run definitely adds to your weekly variety. I feel a little springier after I run hard up a short (but steep) hill, even more so than intervals.

Thanks for the tips!

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-Andy
Competing in 5Ks and HM's
My running/writing blog:
http://blog.dawnsrise.com/2007/10/running-gear.html
PS it's iapetus NOT Lapetus

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evryday
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2007 06:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for evryday   Click Here to Email evryday     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great post ribs. For me, this discussion on hills is very timely. I'm just now moving from the base phase to the prep. phase and I've been neglecting the hill work.

Talking to a running buddy a couple nights ago, we discussed the need for hills and I vowed to do them.

I'll take your advice (and CNY, smpankowski, perch and others) and begin to include the hills in my weekly runs.

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jpgarland
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2007 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jpgarland   Click Here to Email jpgarland     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excellent ideas Ribs et al. My favorite hill for this type of thing is Paine Avenue, but there's an "e" and its for the author of "Common Sense." I think I'll try adding the over-the-top continuation, as I tend to have us stop at the top and jog down (about 0.3 miles). I agree about the prospect of hills having their revenge after you're over the top. That's when it's important to keep your concentration.

Also, good suggestions about the head. I sometimes let mine drop. My Club's now in base-building, but I think we'll do some of these shortly to transition to the track.

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Tramps
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2007 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tramps     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for a good thread. I didn't know about the "up and over" approach, so that was especially valuable.

Could you elaborate on why you suggest relatively short hills? Is it just a matter of not exhausting yourself? Or something else?

I feel like this question belongs on that "Are you dumber than a 5th grader" show but here goes. (I did a quick google on this but couldn't find a clear answer.) Grade is not the same as angle, right? (A 45 degree angle is a 100% grade, I think, since it's a 1:1 ratio.) So how do you figure out grade of a hill? I have no idea how to use the Garmin grade measurement since it seems to vary dramatically from point to point. Also, the other day "old guy" posted a link to a grade calculator, I used it, and was surprised at the relatively low grade of my hills. Then, upon closer inspection, I realized you were supposed to enter "horizontal distance" (i.e. the imaginary straight line through the hill) not actual distance on the road. Lacking the necessary mining equipment to bore a hole into the hill, this didn't help me. I know a precise number is not crucial but I feel clueless judging grade, for some reason.

I've really not done targeted hill work because there are so many hills in my regular running. However, I'm planning to do some starting later this month. I'll do a little reading on my own but this was a good start. Thanks.

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breger1
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2007 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for breger1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a flatlander, this may be totally off-base, but here goes anyway.

For me, when running long distance, the key is not to tire myself out when I run hills. Blowing up the HR is not a good thing when running long. So i usually try to run the hills with an even effort. I feel like I'm pushing just as hard (or not) whether I'm going uphill, downhill, or running the flats.

One of the local clubbers swears that running a marathon with some hills is easier than running all flats. I figured she was just off her rocker. But my recent long run in NY showed me that she may be correct. The hills use different muscles, thus sharing the load, so to speak.

Bill

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MustangSally
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2007 10:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MustangSally     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I look at hills in two lights. The first is my daily challenge: my home is about 180' uphill from just about everything around it. Since most of my base runs are controlled more or less by HR, it's discouraging to hit that homeward grade knowing that I should be cooling down, but have to work to make it home. I'm still debating whether I should accept the challenge and really give 'er (to h*ll with HR) and then walk around staggering near the house, or just accept an easy shuffle that last km or so.

For hill-specific training, I have a few good 'uns around town. Coach usually gives me this routine:

WU 20 (or so) minutes on your way to the hill. My hills s/b about 200m long.
6x(60s uphill, jog down, do [one of six core/plyo exercises])
CD however long it takes to get the workout up to the required time.

I like the idea of a float at the top. Now that I think of it, I know just the place where the hills are just right for that climb/float pattern.

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Mustang Sally
Boomers and Beyond wiki

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Nordic Berserker
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2007 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nordic Berserker   Click Here to Email Nordic Berserker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great thread Spareribs! I'm a big believer in hill training. In fact going back over training logs and such, I've always had my best years after coming off of, you guessed it 4-6 weeks of hill training. As a runner I'm a jack of all trades, perhaps to a fault because I don't really specialize at any distance or type. However, one constant strength is hill running.

My approach is quite similar but also somewhat different than Spareribs'. I pretty much approach these as I would any interval workout.

A lot of us a limited by terrain, but I base my training on reps that are generally 3 minutes or more. I do these workouts in the early season and like Ribs, at least once or twice a week. Very early when still in the base phase, I just incorporate lots of hilly training about 3X/week and sometimes push sections of the hills.

When I'm ready for interval type training, I'll do one set of V02 effort reps of 3-6 minutes somewhere between 5 and 10k effort, where I'll run a rep, jog downhill for recovery (usually about 30% to 60% of the rep duration [shorter recovery for slower effort rep, longer recovery for faster reps]). Then repeat. I like to start out at about 15 minutes of uphill running (eg., 3 X 5 min or 5 X 3 min etc.), and then build up to 20 minutes or more. I pick hills ranging from about 4% to 13%; 5 to 10% is just about ideal.

On the other hill day, I like to do tempo effort runs. Either I'll find a long hill and try to do 18 to 30 min steady climbing (we have a great hill for that near where I live, starting at 600 something ft and going up to 1500 ft over the course of about 4 miles). If the hills are shorter I select a route where I can do some reps of 8 to 12 minutes with a short recovery.

If I'm thinking of doing the mile, I'll also get in a few workouts with shorter faster reps of 1 to 1:30 at mile effort, where I just jog down the hill for recovery. These are also great.

Yes the drawback is that for early season racing you're not sharp. The benefits tend to be delayed several weeks. But mid season you'll find that you have much greater knee lift and mid-race strength; and you'll be less susceptible to injury.

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perchcreek
Cool Runner
posted Dec-04-2007 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for perchcreek   Click Here to Email perchcreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very good contributions to this great thread. Come to think of it, I ran my 1/2 Marathon last Saturday with my HR in a 3 bpm range for the mile splits which means constant effort. I remember that acceleration at the top of the hills and passing runners about 3/4 the way up. Also the passing of runners downhill as I kept the HR high vs easing off for the downhill. Even with the constant average effort, I would cycle from say 174 at the steepest part of a hill down to 164 near the bottom.

After a long downhill, as soon as it levels or goes up, the effort feels very hard, even if the up hill is not steep. What's up with that? I think when the HR goes down your body thinks it's time for a break and protests the next upward swing. How can this be avoided?

Breeger.. hitting high HR on a hill during a long run seems counter to the LSD, fat burning concept, but it does train you to turn on an effort during a tiring outing. They are usually so brief, recovery is rapid so it doesn't switch you over to anerobic mode. It is just extra conditioning. I do it sometimes, not all LR's Tempo portions during long runs are also beneficial if not over done.

Steve

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