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September 50 Plus Training and Racing

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Author	Topic: September 50 Plus Training and Racing
jpgarland Cool Runner	posted Sep-08-2007 03:27 PM I looked up where I saw it. Here's Garry Wills: quote: The glorification of the president as a war leader is registered in numerous and substantial executive aggrandizements; but it is symbolized in other ways that, while small in themselves, dispose the citizenry to accept those aggrandizements. We are reminded, for instance, of the expanded commander in chief status every time a modern president gets off the White House helicopter and returns the salute of marines. That is an innovation that was begun by Ronald Reagan. Dwight Eisenhower, a real general, knew that the salute is for the uniform, and as president he was not wearing one. An exchange of salutes was out of order. IP: Logged
Dark Horse Cool Runner	posted Sep-08-2007 04:16 PM Joe, I'm not the best guy to ask about military regulations. However, it seems you are raising two separate issues: whether the president should be saluted, and whether the president should salute others. 1. It seems to be traditional for military personnel to salute the president. This is not a new thing. After all, the president is the Commander in Chief. Yes, it's unusual to salute someone not wearing a uniform, but our constitution places a civilian in charge of the military. 2. You quote Garry Wills as saying that Ronald Reagan was the first president to return the salutes of military personnel. I don't believe this is true: brief web research indicates that FDR returned military salutes by placing his hand over his heart. It would surprise me if other presidents did not also return salutes somehow, because it only makes sense to return a salute. It would strike me as impolite not to return a salute, because a salute is supposed to be acknowledged: it's a mutual act. The subordinate acknowledges a superior officer, and the superior officer acknowledges the act of respect. You wouldn't have to salute the president because you presumably aren't in the military; therefore the president isn't your commander in chief. If I were not in uniform, I suppose I wouldn't have to salute him either; but I guess I would have to, if I were in uniform. As I said, I'm not the best guy to ask about military regulations. Dark Horse ------------------ I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course IP: Logged
jpgarland Cool Runner	posted Sep-08-2007 04:57 PM DH, Thanks. You make a good point in distinguishing saluting the CinC and the CinC saluting, which I picked up in some items, in which it is noted that, e.g., the Marines salute the president when he gets off of Marine One. Marines would know as well as anyone what's proper. I'm not and never have been in the military. IP: Logged
Sun Raider Cool Runner	posted Sep-08-2007 07:45 PM When Lincoln received salutes from his commanders, his son Tad returned the salutes. That was innovative. I didn't know this had become the boomer's and beyond military salute discussion but frankly it was a relief from the normal "I ran 5 miles today at a 10 minute pace" drivel. I think Rib's post on Mark Sisson was most interesting but as usual no one responded because it hits right at the core of what we are as runners who try to train and race year round. Mark makes some good points in his website about endurance training. That doesn't mean we stop doing it. It would be way too threatening to "learn". I know it always was for me. I knew Mark back in the 1970's when he was a top flight local-class runner. He lived in the SF Bay Area but we met at out of town races (for both of us). Mark developed one of the first HRM's. It never took off but t was innovative for its time. IP: Logged
ptbrown Cool Runner	posted Sep-08-2007 08:46 PM quote: Originally posted by Sun Raider: I think Rib's post on Mark Sisson was most interesting but as usual no one responded because it hits right at the core of what we are as runners who try to train and race year round. Mark makes some good points in his website about endurance training. That doesn't mean we stop doing it. It would be way too threatening to "learn". I know it always was for me. The article seems to be focused on highly motivated and highly trained endurance athletes. Very few runners crank out 2 hours of sub-6 minute miles for a workout. In contrast most of the people who post here seem to have a fairly good balance of exercise/work/family. People frequently post about taking time off because they are tired, or have child-care responsibilities, or want to spend time with grandchildren. In the same way, most of the posters have a realistic and (in my mind) healthy approach to long runs. Typically folks will spend 6-10 weeks doing 20+ mile runs, with lots of shorter runs and rest. That is different than a steady diet of 100+ mile weeks. Most of the folks seem to have seasonal cycles of periods of hard work followed by extended periods of relatively comfortable maintenance. That seems much like the pattern that our hunter-gatherer ancestors followed. Perhaps those who try to hammer every workout will end up shriveled and fragile. But I'm betting that 30-60 miles a week is not the kind of work ehtic that will shorten our lives. IP: Logged
euphoric Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 05:28 AM I am off to participate in the most foolish, spontaneous adventure of my life. I'll turn the keyboard over to my resident military historian while I slather on the sunscreen. Rich, I shaved my legs, but I don't think it will make any difference other than an aesthetic one. E Saluting the Commander in Chief goes back to George Washington. While some Presidents did not return salutes for a variety of reasons, the military always recognized the role that the President played as the senior person in the chain of command; he always got a salute. In modern times, the salutes are far more visible for obvious reasons, but they've been taking place the whole time. E thinks THIS is the "drivel," not the miles/pace posts. Mr. E Edited because the historian doesn't spell so good before a cup of coffee. The spouse was also a little wired. I don't think respect for the military is "drivel". For 28 years I've been concerned with the families and making sure they get "saluted" or fed. I understand the rest and respect it, it's just not my focus. He has succeeded in spite of me. [This message has been edited by euphoric (edited Sep-09-2007).] IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 09:27 AM quote: Originally posted by euphoric: E thinks THIS is the "drivel," not the miles/pace posts. Mr. E As do I IP: Logged
fredurie Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 10:45 AM Sunday AM 1 mile jog, 2 @ sub 6, 1 mile jog, 2 @ sub 6, 68F and 94 to 99 % humidity. No puke. IP: Logged
fredurie Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 10:55 AM Sisson may be right, but I would rather hammer the workouts at 60 and die younger, than live like a complacent cow until I'm 90. IP: Logged
euphoric Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 11:31 AM Just got home from the unplanned 13.1 2:04:26 I think. The shirt is ugly. [This message has been edited by euphoric (edited Sep-09-2007).] IP: Logged
bobscamman Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 12:20 PM quote: Originally posted by euphoric: Just got home from the unplanned 13.1 2:04:26 I think. The shirt is ugly. [This message has been edited by euphoric (edited Sep-09-2007).] Nice run E, bummer on the shirt being an ugly one. ------------------ My User Profile "Keep on Running" Bob IP: Logged
bobscamman Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 12:27 PM I guess I'll have to chime in on saluting the Commander in Chief. As a former member of the Honor Guard at West Point I did enough saluting to last a life time! My best memories having to do with slautes were every spring when the cadets would graduate if you were the first to salute the new lieutenant you got a "Silver Dollar" in return. As far as saluting the President of the United States, he is the Commander in Chief as stated earlier and as a result is saluted more out of respect than anything else, although it is protocol. Now for Sunday's Long Run - 72 Degree to start with light rain and a refreshing 62 degrees to finish (refreshing)! 18.05 miles - 2:36:17 - (8:39) HR 120 / 159 9:49, 8:54, 8:45, 8:56, 8:54, 9:05, 9:05, 8:42, 8:45, 8:52, 8:33, 8:19, 9:08, 8:46, 8:21, 8:05, 7:46, 7:24, :07 This is the best I've felt in a long time, my knee didn't act up at all and I wanted to finish strong the last couple of miles to train tired legs that they could do it and was pleased with the result. I had some nice easy miles in this one mixed in with a few quicker ones, my average pace for this run was just over a minute over Marathon Pace. ------------------ My User Profile "Keep on Running" Bob IP: Logged
Dark Horse Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 12:32 PM quote: Originally posted by fredurie: Sisson may be right, but I would rather hammer the workouts at 60 and die younger, than live like a complacent cow until I'm 90. Here's one vote for living like a complacent cow till I'm 90. Or a complacent horse. Dark Horse ------------------ I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course IP: Logged
Rich in NH Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 02:23 PM On unshaven legs, I ran a 10K this morning in 51:01. Good enough for 2nd in age group out of 10 of us old pharts. Tough, hilly course in the rain and mud, I'm happy. Euphoric, congratulations on the half, you're doing great! Keep those legs shaved... Nice run Bob and strong finish. Regarding runnning and aging, I'm a runner, so I run. I've never felt that running would make me live longer, but it does make me feel better and that's good enough for me... IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 02:49 PM Nice workouts Fred, Bob. Good racing Euphoric and Rich. Sunday - 15 miles on bike path at 8:10 pace. Felt like it was going to be a tough one for first few miles, but it better as I went on. Good running weather helped a lot--mid 60's and cloudy. I don't know that the direct effects of running will make me live any longer, but indirectly it might give me better odds. As a non-runner I have not lived a very healthy lifestyle, and that's putting it mildly. IP: Logged
Sun Raider Cool Runner	posted Sep-09-2007 05:45 PM Jim Well said. Your previous reputation precedes you as a glutton, carouser and womanizer but of course these days everyone knows you have reformed. Jack London once said: I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. The function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days trying to prolong them. I shall use my time. He died at age 40. Raider IP: Logged
euphoric Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 08:04 AM I agree with quality of living being more important than length of years. I was dealt a hand of intercranial bleeds and had to weigh the risk of more bleeds or the possible surgical outcomes. "Cherish yesterday. Think about tomorrow. Live today." was the sentiment a friend brought over while I was contemplating my decision. Those words still work. Day off for me today. My original post on age was a tribute to the joy of daily accomplishment communicated in your reports even when you puke. IP: Logged
glidegal Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 02:18 PM Gosh, skip a couple of days and Ken Burns takes up residence and DH turns himself out to the stud farm. I will gracefully bow out of the fray. Raider--you and Jack had me at ashes...until the end. The big puke... Fred--they don't call me glide for nothing--- take care of those legs! Euphie-- This congrats is in praise of spontaneity and your fine race. Better that way so you don't stew over it for days... why do I think you'd stew....?? Don't stew over the shirt either. An ugly shirt today is a fond memory tomorrow... and better an ugly shirt than an ugly memory. To the rest of you, she neglected to mention she came in 3rd in AG on her first half. Huzzah! Happy Monday from Sunny Oregon, glidegal IP: Logged
Dark Horse Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 02:27 PM quote: Originally posted by Sun Raider: He died at age 40. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Jack London drank himself to death, like one of my other favorite writers, Jack Kerouac. So I love the flashy quote, but I'm unconvinced that burning out and dying young is a desirable fate. I believe it's possible to live more sensibly and live a much longer life of solid enjoyment. I wasn't going to say anything about Jim's lifestyle, but since he brought it up, maybe it's time for an intervention. Who's with me? Dark Horse ------------------ I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course IP: Logged
glidegal Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 02:38 PM If we're going to conduct this in a dark, seedy bar, count me in. First we'll need details of his sordid past, then we can decide the best course of action. I'll buy first round. glidegal IP: Logged
Dark Horse Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 03:05 PM If glidegal is there, count me in for the meeting in the dark and seedy bar. If she sits in my lap, I'll buy all her drinks. Dark Horse ------------------ I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course IP: Logged
glidegal Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 03:07 PM How do you know this is not a set up? I'm just sayin..... glidegal IP: Logged
bobscamman Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 05:58 PM Monday - Cloudy, 60 degrees and humid. 5.02 miles - 42:48 - (8:32) HR 123 / 132 ------------------ My User Profile "Keep on Running" Bob IP: Logged
Jim24315 Cool Runner	posted Sep-10-2007 10:05 PM Guess I stepped into one here but no intervention necessary. I "came to" many years ago. Nothing dramatic�heavy drinking, smoking, bad diet, and no exercise. Some basic qualifications for �unhealthy lifestyle� status. There was some overlap with first couple years of running, but things started getting better after the first mile. Monday � 7 miles on grass loop at 8:35 pace. Legs felt better than I thought they would after coming off my biggest week of the year. IP: Logged
euphoric Cool Runner	posted Sep-11-2007 06:41 AM Up and out for 3 easy ones before the rain hit. The new shoes are terrific and seem to have eliminated any twinge in my hip. The 2110s now feel like I'm running in boxes. I'll meet the perky partner for the chiseled work this afternoon. I wasn't being so humble as gg would lead you to believe. We didn't stay for the awards on Sunday and results weren't available until yesterday. Jim, good to hear you put one end of that candle out. gg and DH, go sit in the corner. And not the same one. Where is everyone else? Liz, how's the swimming? IP: Logged

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