posted Sep-21-2007 12:14 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by fredurie:
Yep.

2 to 2.5 hours, every morning. I was sooooooo tired today.

Doug Kurtis is waiting at the starting line to kick my butt ( for the 10th
time).

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I talked to brother Dennis last Sunday at race. He's averaging in mid 70's mileage wise. He ran 16:48, nosing out 2nd place finisher by a fraction of a sec, for the 50-54 win.

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posted Sep-21-2007 01:30 PM            

gg, mums the word on the violets. Don't use up all that speed tonight.

Jim and gg, ggood luck this weekend.

Wishing everyone happy and healthy weekends full of good runs and good friends.

[This message has been edited by euphoric (edited Sep-21-2007).]

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posted Sep-21-2007 01:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by euphoric:
Fred, I'm starting to think you are an appliance.

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Lots of talk about appliances in this thread. I guess it's better to be an appliance than a tool.

Dark Horse

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I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course

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posted Sep-21-2007 03:19 PM            

I apologize for any misintrepretation of my words.

[This message has been edited by euphoric (edited Sep-21-2007).]

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posted Sep-21-2007 03:31 PM            

Fred doesn't care. You don't have to apologize for anything. It's all good.

Make yourself some camomile tea. It relaxes the fibers.

Dark Horse

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I'm a dark horse, running on a dark race course

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posted Sep-21-2007 05:08 PM               

6.03 miles @ MP + 1:00

51:59 - (8:37)

HR 122 / 135

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"Keep on Running"
Bob

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posted Sep-21-2007 05:39 PM               

Friday - 3 miles easy.

OhioMom, welcome aboard and good luck in your marathon...

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posted Sep-21-2007 07:04 PM            

Whether you run well at Paso Robles or not it has nothing to do with the fact that you don't trust yourself enough to effectively taper.

Based on what you have related about your training this week you might as well NOT taper. It's too late now anyway. Based on your last 3 races you more than likely will run well anyway. Sounds like you are on a streak of age group PR's. You just won't run as well as you would if you understood how to taper. I think you could get in the high 38's (and may anyway) if you tapered. Enough said.

When I used to race regularly up to about 5-7 years ago, I would have to remind myself about why I was training. It was to run the best I was capable in a race on that day. So I would taper because I understood that a rested body tended to do better on race day.

That didn't mean I always ran a PR. I had some bad races now and then. But my PR's (age group and all time) came with an effective taper. Coaches like Bowerman and Lydiard taught that this was important. So I might be running 70 miles a week or more but on race week, it was closer to 50% or less of my normal miles.

By the way, I never said I liked tapering. I liked grinding out the miles but I understood what I was in the running business for.

Raider

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posted Sep-21-2007 07:30 PM               

My plan is to run that next year. But I just got up to a 20 mile week. I know that's not ideal... training should begin in May. Any opinons?

Jim24315, this isn't the place for this, but I really enjoyed your RR. I get frozen when I read them & have a hard time commenting, but wanted to mention it as long as I'm here. Congratulations.

euphie, I've seen a couple of Ohio references from you. Are you from somewhere around Columbus?

glidegal, how are you?

Rich, I hope you feel better soon.

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posted Sep-21-2007 11:38 PM               

I don't think there's any danger of my beaking 39 this Sunday. I'll be very happy if I can break 40 again. I'm not against tapering when I think it's necessary, and to be honest I would have backed off some had I been sure I was going to race Sunday. It was up in the air until Wednesday night.

I'm not going to repeat the circumstances when I think tapering is necessary again. I'm sure that you when you tapered it was the right thing to do and that you did it the right way. I plan on being more rested for the HM next month, which is my goal race, but I'll never be convinced that I need many complete rest days to be fully recovered and ready to go.

Jim

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posted Sep-21-2007 11:47 PM               

Good luck to you too, Glidegal

Rich. I wouldn't worry about feeling crummy for a day or two as long as you don't try to bull your way through it. That's when they can start to pile up on you and we don't want to see any more of that.

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posted Sep-22-2007 09:05 AM               

8.4 miles - 1:06:09 - (7:52)
HR - 133 / 152

9:01 - 8:24 - 7:30 - 7:03 -
7:27 - 8:19 - 7:46 - 7:37 - 3:00

This was run with my weekend running group and one of our more infrequent runners (a very fast runner) showed up and he always pushes me hard as can be seen from those 7 minute miles...I figured what the heck, a good workout for some marathon paced and sub marathon paced miles thrown in for good measure...felt good.

Tomorrow I am headed down to work the Maine Coast Half Marathon Road Race. I am going down early and will run the course as my last hard workout before the Maine Marathon. My goal for tomorrow will be - 2 miles @ mp = 10 seconds (7:49) 4 miles at mp (7:37) - final 7.1 miles at just below mp to finish at 1:40 or just below. That will mirror how I want my first half to go on October 7th and will be a good test for me.

Good runs all. And good luck to all those racing this weekend and maybe I'll see a few of you ladies at the race tomorrow.

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Bob

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posted Sep-22-2007 09:25 AM            

Deb, the other one, we lived in Upper Arlington during the two years we were at OSU.

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posted Sep-22-2007 10:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by euphoric:
Fred, I edited the post DH took that statement from. I compared your economy of effort and good health to an energy efficient appliance with an extended warranty. I did not wish to convey any malice or inappropriate innuendo.

I apologize for any misintrepretation of my words.

[This message has been edited by euphoric (edited Sep-21-2007).]

---

Euph, you can say anything you want to me.

110 miles this week.

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posted Sep-22-2007 10:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
I talked to brother Dennis last Sunday at race. He's averaging in mid 70's mileage wise. He ran 16:48, nosing out 2nd place finisher by a fraction of a sec, for the 50-54 win.

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I was in the same race as Dennis about 5 to 10 times. He kicked my butt too. Belle Isle, Trenton, Royal Oak, downtown Detroit.

My friend Jaime was on a racing team with Dennis and he would come over
to Windsor sometimes.

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posted Sep-22-2007 10:56 AM            

AM 15 @ 7:45 to 8:20, 70F and 69%, HR 106.

Not as tired as Friday.

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posted Sep-22-2007 11:13 AM            

"I wish I head all my research folders in front of me. My ex-wife burned most of my work folders from the late 80s and early 90s but if someone out there can find the research done by two scientists in Montreal who showed (using radio-isotopes or phoshpate marked isotopes) the actual aerobic and anaerobic energy values during an all-out 90 second run you would be amazed at how much of the actual energy contribution cones from aerobic metabolism. Karpovich also had some good info. about kcal use relative to energy contributions for various time-distance activities. He might, for example, have shown in his research that 80% of energy derived from 60 seconds of all-out running comes from aerobic kcals and only 20% comes from anaerobic kcals."

"I am simply saying that the energy continuum steadily shifts toward the aerobic end as time passes. In a 400m run, the first 4 seconds engery is derived from pur anaerobic alactic processes. But, after that a mix of all three systems takes place. Aaerobic glycolysis is the slowest generator per unit time of ATP, so it won't be up to snuff quickly. But, by time one gets to the 30 second mark, already at that exact moment, aerobic glycolysis is contributing an average of 50% of the ATP needed. After that, more energy is derived by aerobic than anaerobic processes. Now, the overall quantity of ATP generated during that 30 seconds or even that 45 seconds per anaerobic processes is very high, especially since ATP are generated more quickly in anaerobic alactic and anaerobic glycolytic processes."

I believe that this is Tinman.

[This message has been edited by fredurie (edited Sep-22-2007).]

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posted Sep-22-2007 11:33 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by bobscamman:
...Tomorrow I am headed down to work the Maine Coast Half Marathon Road Race. I am going down early and will run the course as my last hard workout before the Maine Marathon. My goal for tomorrow will be - 2 miles @ mp = 10 seconds (7:49) 4 miles at mp (7:37) - final 7.1 miles at just below mp to finish at 1:40 or just below. That will mirror how I want my first half to go on October 7th and will be a good test for me...

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Bob,
You must be One Lucky Guy! This is a women's race! Orapin will be there though, look her up and tell her Craig said hi!!.

http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/1/1_29/6810.shtml

Craig

[This message has been edited by TheProFromDover (edited Sep-22-2007).]

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posted Sep-22-2007 12:57 PM            

Bill, you have no real need to do 18 tomorrow. Listen to Fred. That being said, you are sure fit right now, but I often worry you are right on the edge.

Glider, you are right about that view in Pittsburgh. I was there yesterday and when you come out of the tunnel, the nighttime skyline is spectacular. Many people visiting the city for the first time are surprised by its beauty as it used to have such a bad reputation. They once manufactured steel there I heard. This coming week I am in Boston, another gem of a city.

Belated happy birthday to our Ohio mom and marathoner. Good luck to you.

Euphie, Fred is tough as nails. No worries.

5 miles today: one walking, three jogging at ten minute pace, no discomfort, and one walking. 30 minutes of core exercises. Never thought I would be excited to jog three miles in 30 minutes, but it sure was fun. And only two women grabbed me by the ass as they went by during the walk portion, which is an improvement over the last few weeks.

That race I was going to walk in today? I decided not to. I can jog a bit now and I was worried if I entered it I might try to run.

Fred, that analysis you posted points to the essential reason why, after you have built up your base, you should incorporate speed at various intensities to work the different systems that generate energy. Lydiard's aerobic runs were actually at a pretty quick pace, and Daniels uses that same guideline of half a minute or so off MP (Pfitz' GA runs), then you have OBLA where you step it up a bit, and finally very hard anaerobic work. DH, you may recall we were talking about this on another thread one time and you said it was all nonsense and that was when I called you a cretin if I remember correctly. Argumentum ad hominem when all else fails to impress. Spareribs

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posted Sep-22-2007 04:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sun Raider:
Jim(bo)

Whether you run well at Paso Robles or not it has nothing to do with the fact that you don't trust yourself enough to effectively taper.

Based on what you have related about your training this week you might as well NOT taper. It's too late now anyway. Based on your last 3 races you more than likely will run well anyway. Sounds like you are on a streak of age group PR's. You just won't run as well as you would if you understood how to taper. I think you could get in the high 38's (and may anyway) if you tapered. Enough said.

When I used to race regularly up to about 5-7 years ago, I would have to remind myself about why I was training. It was to run the best I was capable in a race on that day. So I would taper because I understood that a rested body tended to do better on race day.

That didn't mean I always ran a PR. I had some bad races now and then. But my PR's (age group and all time) came with an effective taper. Coaches like Bowerman and Lydiard taught that this was important. So I might be running 70 miles a week or more but on race week, it was closer to 50% or less of my normal miles.

By the way, I never said I liked tapering. I liked grinding out the miles but I understood what I was in the running business for.

Raider

---

I think your approach is far too rigid. Jim may respond better with less of a hard taper than you. Everybody is different and will not see the same effect under the same circumstances. For what it's worth, I feel exactly as you do in terms of what works best for me. Go Jim!

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posted Sep-22-2007 06:47 PM               

Ran an easy 8-9 on frozen forest trails. Snow will be here soon.

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posted Sep-22-2007 08:34 PM               

Fred, what a week! You must be feeling like a million bucks off that mileage!

I'm running a marathon a week from tomorrow, so am easing up with mileage a bit.

Saturday - 4 miles easy.

Jim, I can practically guarantee you won't see me suffering from overtraining syndrome again, that's one lesson I only need to learn once...

Liz and Spareribs, jogging is a big first step, good luck with your rehabs.

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posted Sep-23-2007 12:33 AM            

You had me to "Go Jim". I didn't realize this was the cheerleader forum.

Raider

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posted Sep-23-2007 07:30 AM            

So, instead of today's 18 (or 22), I ran 7 miles yesterday at MP and today I'm resting. Tomorrow I'll kick off the next week with 11 miles with 6x1000 meter Intervals @ 5K pace, 90 secs. between. I was going to do those on Tuesday, but this'll give me a rest day later in the week before the 20K in Naples.

Smart move Ribs to not do the 5K. As competitive as you are, nothing good could have come of it.

Bill

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posted Sep-23-2007 08:55 AM            

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