| Author |
Topic: Another VCM RR, another near miss |
ptbrown
Cool Runner |
 posted May-28-2007 08:05 PM
  
PDR, I've only been reading since December. Your training has been well planned and consistent. Keep on keeping-on. You've been training well and things will continue to improve for you.
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FlyingFinn
Cool Runner |
posted May-28-2007 08:54 PM
PDR, your patience and determination are truly inspirational. You would have had your BQ for sure had it not been such a difficult
course. Best wishes for rest and recovery first, then solid and healthy training in the months to come leading to your BQ in the fall.
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Canfit
Cool Runner |
posted May-28-2007 09:32 PM
Congrats on a great race, PDR! While you're disappointed, reflect a moment on what you're doing and how blest to be able to do it! Enjoy every moment you're running. As far as fall marathons are concerned, you could always consider coming across the border and running the Toronto Waterfront Marathon. We could set you up with Ed Whitlock!
Our group is targeting Columbus. Apparently, it's a great course as well. Stay healthy and keep running!
PJ
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runningindc
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 07:49 AM
PDR
Great run and your BQ is just waiting for you to come get it this fall. Rest up and enjoy your vacation, then go get it! Thanks for such a great RR.------------------
Running in wellness Liz Lizs Profile
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rochrunner
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 07:59 AM
PDR, nobody here in this forum is surprised at how well you have been doing, or doubts that both a PR and BQ are in your future yet this season. You are one heck of a runner!And I'll also join the crowd in inviting you to the Midwest, where there are a lot of flat, fast marathons in the fall (the ones in Ohio have been mentioned, and then there's Detroit and Grand Rapids in Michigan...). ------------------
- Runnin' in Rochester Rochrunner
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tnally
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 08:33 AM
PDR,
Congratulations on how far you've come from your stress fracture layoff. This was a tough course and you really did well under hard conditions. You'll BQ this fall for sure.Tom
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Doctor Wu
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 09:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by predawnrunner:
Vermont City Marathon, May 27 2007THE COURSE:
I would not have picked this course for a BQ attempt. It is seriously hilly... Here are two versions of the elevation plot - one from my Garmin, the other from Google Earth, courtesy SkipAZ:
 
At the risk of having all you good people slam me I feel it necessary to come to the defense of "my" course. VCM is not the easiest, fastest marathon out there, but it is in no way a difficult course. You want difficult?... Try Boston or Adirondack. No, VCM isn't as fast as Chicago, Baystate or Mohawk Hudson, but I'd rate it about on par with Philly (Jeez, I'm repeating myself). Those elevation charts make it look much hillier than it actually is. Look at them: They squeezed the miles together and spread out the altitude. That makes for an exagerrated hilliness that increases the slope and creates mountains out of ten foot inclines. Here's a more realistic elevation chart from the VCM handbook. It properly spreads out the miles to more accurately depict the actual angle of incline.  I don't wish to take anything away from all of your excellent efforts. But I don't remember the organizers ever trying to conceal the real nature of the course. I understand unexpected hills can affect one's entire performance but I still think some of you have gotten the wrong picture of this awesome course. Maybe I'm just so accustomed to running here I don't think it's a big deal. I don't know. Nevermind. 
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hermosaboy
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 11:09 AM
Yikes -- those hills are scary!!!Great effort on your part. Recover well and find a nice flat fall marathon -- you will get your time.
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hazelrah
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 11:52 AM
Predawnrunner - Congrats ona great race ! Well done.I also must agree with Dr Wu (being a 5 time VCM finisher myself and I have run much of the course more times then I can count). If you can't BQ here you are not likely to BQ anywhere. Although I consider this course significantly hillier then Philadelphia (which I have run twice) and harder then Sugarloaf & Clarence DeMar, I think it is much easier then the likes of Cape Cod and Adiortondack. The google earth plot above looks pretty darn good & close to accurate(aside from we do not finish in the lake under 20 feet of water, we finish next to the Lake) You can sanity check any elevation in the region by knowing Lake Champlain sits at 95' (98' right now because of springtime), anything under that is underwater. I am also pretty sure the second half of the course never excedes ~220' after mile 16. In the google earth plot I can visualize each and every peak and Valley (min/max) with a hill on the course, hence I have a good deal of faith in that particular plot. I am not trying to be a downer, but look at ways to improve your training and race prep, and race strategy, and not to a magic improvement due to an easier course. I think allot of runners place way to much faith in the accuracy of their GPS devices. In any case, you ran a great run and be proud ! Congrats ...
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euphoric
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 12:35 PM
From couch to recovered and running a marathon is nothing short of outstanding! The graphs really helped to better understand the course and your splits. The hills discussion is interesting.I look forward to reading about your next race.
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TammyM
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 12:46 PM
well, I think saying that if you can't BQ here you likely can't BQ anywhere is a bit inaccurate. I think anyone that has posted with you for very long and is familiar with your strong running abilities, knows that you can BQ. You came awfully close on this course and considering your starting point (self-professed couch potato on crutches LOL ) you did an amazing job at this marathon. Congratulations on a marathon that you ran very well despite some struggle with the hills of Vermont. it sounds like you enjoyed the challenge though 
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dtoce
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 12:57 PM
PDR-
Congratulations on making it to the starting line! You've had some very difficult training blocks and have really come out on top by being at the race. SF's are not fun and you've fought back quite nicely. The VCM course isn't really hilly, but that hill at mile 15 is a doozy for those that are undertrained. I've been there and done that-on that exact race course- on my first marathon attempt. In fact, most marathons have a few hills of 50-100 feet-which isn't too onerous, usually. I think a nice marathon in Hartford would be calling you (and Lou) so you can get to Bawwston for '08. All you need is one solid training block and I'll guarentee that you will BQ-at GHM or elsewhere. You are tantalizingly close...GHM's course has a similiar sized 'hill' at mile 20, but I believe that Hartford is pancake flat for the first 20 miles and is easier. Plus there is a lot of wind on that out and back stretch along the highway at VCM. Congratulations, again! Dale PS- I'd love to design a program for you to BQ with, once you've recovered.
Email me, if you dare... ------------------
My Profile
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rosecoloredglasses
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 01:01 PM
I agree with you, Tammy. The home-field advantage probably clouds rational thinking. PDR, you did a grand job recovering from your stress fracture and you did a swell job training for this run. This course might be one on which folks frequently BQ but, throw in the humidity and that bit of wind and rain at the end and all bets are off. One thing everyone should know is this: PDR has the BEST attitude in the world. Yes, she was disappointed when the 4:05 slipped away, but... she summed it up quite nicely when she said to us, "I did the best I could with what I had today."
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Doctor Wu
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 02:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rosecoloredglasses:
I agree with you, Tammy. The home-field advantage probably clouds rational thinking.
I am speechless. 
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rosecoloredglasses
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 02:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Wu:
I am speechless.
I am sorry, that didn't come out right. I mean no offense to you all. I just thought that the course was challenging enough not to be a "gimmee" as a BQ. I loved Vermont, Burlington, the race, the expo, the race director, the volunteers, the other runners, the airport, the med tent... I loved it all! But "The Assault on Battery" was quite a challenge. Not as tough as some courses, but it was a good one!
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RIFLASH
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 02:50 PM
Hang in there predawnrunner, i'm sure now that your healthy
a b.q.in your future.
I thought vermont was not as easy as philly but still not bad.
The weather was perfect,I lucked out and finished b4 the
rain started.
I didn't know what to expect running another marathon so
close to boston, I had some hamstring problems but
decided to give it a go anyway.
Went out too fast(1st 10m 1:11) for my training but
I did my best at the end and got the b.q.I was looking for.
Overall I thought they did a good job putting on the marathon.
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hazelrah
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 02:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rosecoloredglasses:
I just thought that the course was challenging enough not to be a "gimmee" as a BQ.
I hope I did not imply that ! I am 0-19 in BQ attempts, so there is no such thing as a BQ gimme. I do believe that VCM is a fair course though, and if the hills in this one were enough to knock you off it is really, really unlikely you would have BQ'd elsewhere. I think I have run about a dozen different venues and I would put this course in the middle of the pack. Sugarloaf, Clarence DeMar and Philly being the courses I would call really conducive to running fast, and Adirondack, Cape Cod, Lost Dutchman as being the most difficult. My PR is at VCM(as is my slowest). The way allot of coolrunners are talking today you'ld think you need fixed ropes and jumars to run this marathon  . Cheers...
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nighthawk42
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:02 PM
PDR you had a great recovery and have come a long way since the stress fracture. I think you'll build on this race and have greater sucess at the next one.Great recovery, great race, and great report. Mike
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nighthawk42
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:04 PM
PDR you had a great recovery and have come a long way since the stress fracture. I think you'll build on this race and have greater sucess at the next one.Great recovery, great race, and great report. Mike
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tselbs
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:07 PM
You've got quite a comeback story, PDR. For what you went through six months ago, your performance is fantastic. You were so close to both a PR and BQ that they're well within reach. It sounds like you had a good time. Congratulations.TomS ------------------
My Profile
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perchcreek
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:09 PM
PDR... after the next training cycle you will be able to leap tall buildings, I mean hills, in a single bound!
{in a kind hearted way, really}: I love it ... take the same elevation chart and raise the y-axis to 1000 feet and say .. see, it's flat... that's agood one Let's flatten Boston next.
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rosecoloredglasses
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:14 PM
It is really a subjective thing, I think, right? We all can only draw from our own experiences and how we feel that day on that course.Sure the VCM is BQable, sure it is fair, but who's to say... if PDR was running, say, Tampa or Niantic on Sunday instead of Burlington? I loved the course. It was a great day. Vermont is absolutely beautiful. (Okay, back to the regularly scheduled program... PDR's Race Report!)
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TheProFromDover
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:16 PM
PDR,I'd consider this race a checkpoint. You are in fine shape to BQ on schedule in the fall. Just make sure you have a nice race targeted, and a back up or two in case of flood, hurricane, sickness, oh who knows. Nice to meet you,
-CAgri
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LeftRightRepeat
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:32 PM
I'm thinkin' that the precipitous drop you took there at 18.5 might have been a significant factor!?!?!? Good job climbing back out of that and bringing it home!!!------------------
->>> John <<<-
Go write something in the Newbie Wiki!!
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predawnrunner
Cool Runner |
posted May-29-2007 03:47 PM
This thread has taken an unfortunate turn. I meant no disrespect to VCM as a course, and in fact, I had many nice things to say about it. My struggles with the hills were strictly personal, and, to set the record straight, I was well aware of them going into the race. Hills don't make a course "bad" - they just make it more challenging for some of us. I'm happy for those runners who can sail up hills without noticing the incline, but I'm not one of them. I am limited by my own innate talent (or lack thereof) and my propensity for injury. And I have this silly ambition to go to Boston with my best buddy WRFB. So I need to train enough, but not too much. And I need to have a perfect day on a forgiving course. Because right now, I'm just one of those runners whose ability level is right on the edge. That doesn't mean that I will always strive to find dead flat marathons - that would be silly, and it would mean missing the excitement of some beautiful and interesting courses. But this time, to achieve this goal, I have to look for every advantage.
------------------
Predawnrunner, aka mrs W.R.F. Beer
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