posted Apr-10-2007 08:18 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by euphoric:
I've switched days on the workout schedule. We had a good but windy 7 mile run on Sunday working on maintaining speed on the inclines. My legs felt like Jello at the end of the run. They turned from Jello to lead this morning on a 4 mile run.. I'll work on more stretching today and do the mile repeats tomorrow with my new watch which will allow me to time splits.

fredurie, hope you are feeling better.

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Hi,
YOu've been pretty regimented in following your schedule. Maybe jello and lead indicates a backoff week, or perhaps two easy days in a row.
Just sayin.

Haven't been posting much but finished last week at 36M with 10 on Sat and 8 on Sun.
This week swam 2000yds on M, and 7 easy M today, Tuesday.

-craig

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posted Apr-10-2007 08:35 AM            

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posted Apr-10-2007 09:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by TheProFromDover:
Hi,
YOu've been pretty regimented in following your schedule. Maybe jello and lead indicates a backoff week, or perhaps two easy days in a row.
Just sayin.

-craig

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Yep.

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posted Apr-10-2007 09:22 AM            

AM 13 @ around 8:00, HR 105-107

That felt easy, which means I got a bump off the 80 mile
week.

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posted Apr-10-2007 09:28 AM            

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posted Apr-10-2007 10:20 AM            

"Rono's 7:32 at 3000 = mile 3:47 and 5k 13:08"

I think that says it all....

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posted Apr-10-2007 10:58 AM            

In his 5K training schedules he shows the traditional x times y meter Intervals (such as 6x800m) but he also shows an interesting 1 mile, 3/4 mile, 1/2 mile 1/4 mile workout as well.

What might be the reason for, or advantage (or disadvantage) of running this reducing length interval workout? Perhaps because it starts out long and get shorter I might have a fighting chance of finishing it successfully?

Bill

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posted Apr-10-2007 10:58 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Ileneforward:
I ran every day last week and finished with 50 miles for the week. I ran only 3 miles last night, and I think I may take Friday off this week.
TheProFromDover, are you a sock puppet?

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Don't make me talk dirty socks to you.
-akjgvc

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posted Apr-10-2007 11:25 AM            

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posted Apr-10-2007 11:27 AM               

Maybe Henry could have run a fast mile, but it's probably no accident that he gravitated towards 3000-1000 range. He ran for a major university and had a coach. The very reason that you guys think he will do *best* at the mile is why I think he won't. When you can't run the equivalent time for the mile based on your 5k time, this means that you are better at 5k. I have several longer races that say I should run in 19:20's for 5k but I've only broken 19:40 once. This despite having raced more 5k's than any other distance.

When you add in Henry's weight, which should slow him down as he goes longer, he still outruns his mile time. I know the altitude is a factor, but not THAT much. He is well acclimated.

I also think back to "Duel in the Sun" when Al Sal hired Henry to run a match race 10k against him to give him the final edge before that most famous of Boston Marathons. A friend had to drag Henry out of a tavern and sober him up for the race against Salazar, the greatest marathoner in the world at that time, and also one of the best at 10k..."looking fat and a little blowsy...Once the gun sounded, however, Rono ran with his trademark ferocity. For 25 laps around the historic track, the 2 men belted away at each other. Rono out-leaned Salazar at the wire by the width of his jiggling belly, the wags in the press box joked. Bill Bowerman, who had been among the spectators, called it one of the greatest races he had ever seen." I believe they ran around 27:25, although I'm not sure.

Sure, he can run a fast mile and probably will. However, I think he's better at the distances that he set his world records at. This is very, very logical. I believe he has a very good chance of getting down in 16:30 range at 5000 where Shaheed is now, but a 4:40 mile is a real longshot.

We shall see.

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posted Apr-10-2007 12:35 PM            

Even if he was the greatest runner to ever live, the game is different at 55.

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posted Apr-10-2007 03:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by breger1:
I have a 5K coming up and considering that I am not particularly swift of foot, I figured a couple of Interval sessions might be in order. So I opened up the Daniels' book to the 5K chapter.

In his 5K training schedules he shows the traditional x times y meter Intervals (such as 6x800m) but he also shows an interesting 1 mile, 3/4 mile, 1/2 mile 1/4 mile workout as well.

What might be the reason for, or advantage (or disadvantage) of running this reducing length interval workout? Perhaps because it starts out long and get shorter I might have a fighting chance of finishing it successfully?

Bill

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Bill, knowing you are a technical type guy, I am sure you were careful to look at the pace of those various workbouts. You know for example that Daniels would probably not have you doing that mile session hard, as he doesn't like repeat intervals longer than five minutes and my guess is it would take you longer, as it would me. His reasoning of course is that he wants more recovery to allow you to sustain the good effort through the remainder of the workout and be relatively fresh the next day. So pay attention to the "I", "R" and "T" designations based on vdot with that workout first. I assume you have done this and are aware of the paces that are called for.

Second, if you really have some uncertainty about completing this workout at the paces recommended in the great condition that you are in, by all means don't do this workout. There is no point in stepping onto the track to fight through a killer workout that you might not complete.

The layering of the mile, followed by shorter workbouts is probably for variety, as it is fun and challenging to try new things on the track. But of course all workouts of this type are designed to get that heart rate up at about VO2 max and give you just enough recovery so that you are putting in a solid half hour or so of good quality work, an ideal preparation for fiveK racing later on.

You also mentioned that you are not fast, and there are workouts that you can do safely that address that issue, by that I mean mechanics of leg turnover and drive. You are in great shape, and don't appear to me to be carrying a lot of extra weight. I would love to see your times start dropping if you would focus on some speedwork and an occasional shorter distance race like you are planning. Best wishes to you. Spareribs

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posted Apr-10-2007 04:27 PM               

When is the 5k you are talking about? I'd also be interested in knowing what type of workouts you have been doing up until now.

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posted Apr-10-2007 04:39 PM            

I have been doing a some 6x800m Interval sets once a week for the last few weeks. Nothing special. Just trying to do something a bit speedy just so my legs and lungs don't forget what pushing feels like. Tomorrow morning I was going to do another set of 6x800's but then I saw these 1 mile decreasing repeats and figured "what the heck".

Really though, I've been running sorta blindly since my Disney Full and the A1A Half. I have no races on the horizon and as a result I haven't been as good at getting up at 5:00 AM as beforehand. That and a couple of insignificant aches and pains has had me reaching just to get to 30 or 40 miles a week.

Slacker.

Bill

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posted Apr-10-2007 06:22 PM               

It's true that a there isn't a lot of difference you can make in a week and a half. I would 2nd Spareribs' advice of running your workouts at a pace that doesn't have you struggling to get through them. Personally, I rarely run anything as fast as 5k pace during a workout. What you have been doing looks pretty good, although it doesn't hurt to mix up your interval distances from one workout to the next. Mixing them in the same workout like what you were reading is ok too but I wouldn't do that one every time. I will say this--that the difference between 30 and 40 mpw is siginificant. If you can stay more around 40 I think you will race faster.

And finally, the pressure. I predict that you will run a big PR in your 5k unless it is a more difficult course than you ran your last HM on. That half you ran is signficantly better than than your other PR's and it was also the most recent. This tells me that you have been improving, and that is likely to continue for some time since you just started in 2005. So we'll all be looking for that PR in your next RR

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posted Apr-10-2007 06:30 PM               

1 Mile warm up 3 @ MP 1 Mile Warm down

8:18, 7:16, 7:21, 7:38, 8:09, :19

The idea was to get in a mile easy, and then 3 at around marathon pace and one more easy.

I knew that second mile was a bit fast but it is also downhill at the start and the fourth mile has that as a climb up. All in all I felt pretty darn good and nailed that third mp mile! That warm down mile also felt much slower to me. Only five more days to Boston, can you tell I'm just a bit excited?

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"Keep on Running"
Bob

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posted Apr-10-2007 09:26 PM            

"Sun Raider, try to post earlier in the day. Spareribs"

Ribs

What are my designated times to post messages? I don't want to piss anyone off. Especially you because you might show up in my town.

Jim:

You may be right about Rono. I too believe given that he avoids injuries and loses about 20-25 lbs in weight, that he'll be back in the 16's for 5K. When I could run 4:40 for the mile I was also a low 16 minute 5k runner so running 4:40 might be tough for him. The mile is a very intense race.

Raider

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posted Apr-11-2007 08:45 AM            

Well, I decided to go ahead and try those decreasing length set of Intervals. I mentioned yesterday that I saw this in the Daniels' book but it was actually Glover's book.

Thanks to Ribs and Jim for the replies yesterday. I am aware of the proper pace to try to run these at - I can sometimes get too quick with them which I know is a common problem. It can be a challenge to "feel" the proper pace when running repeats as opposed to longer, easier runs - at least I find that to be the case.

At any rate, 7 miles total in about an hour with the following length runs. 3 minutes jogging between each. I targeted 5K pace (7:22 or so):

1 mile in 7:29 min/mile pace 164 avg. HR (92% MHR)
3/4 mile in 5:24 (7:11 m/m) 168 avg. HR (94% MHR)
1/2 mile in 3:37 (7:13 m/m) 168 avg. HR (94% MHR)
1/4 mile in 1:47 (7:10 m/m) 166 avg. HR (93% MHR)

All in all, not too bad though a slight bit quick on the last 3. The slight drizzle and the temp. of 70 degrees with 93% humidity didn't seem to affect me negatively too much.

Oh yeah. Jim, thanks for the pressure.

Bill

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posted Apr-11-2007 09:03 AM            

Today was 8 x 1/2 mile.
4:11 3:55 4:28 4:14 4:04 4:21 4:15 4:09

I think I heard myself wheezing on the second one.

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posted Apr-11-2007 11:33 AM            

AM 13 miles @ around 8:20, indoors

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posted Apr-11-2007 11:37 AM            

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posted Apr-11-2007 11:46 AM            

I did 8 miles at the track today, and because I am racing Saturday I wanted a bit lighter workout than I normally would do. Today was 4 x 800's @ 3:23 ave and a full 400 recovery after each. (I normally would do 200 recovery.) This has been a super week for me but it caught up to me today, as I had no energy through the workout. Glad I didn't have more to do. Two very light days coming up to prepare for Saturday's fiveK. Spareribs

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posted Apr-11-2007 11:52 AM            

He starts at 5 miles a day and works up to 12, running 6 days a week.
Mileage is run at 7 minute pace which he calls slow ( he's 57 ).

Shaheed:

"After the base, I
start running long intervals. Repeat miles. But then I drop the rest of my mileage. I might run 3 repeat miles, or maybe 4, depending. If it's a good year I'll start with 4, if it's not I'll start with 3.[b I'll run them at 5-minute pace, with 3 minutes in between[/b]. I'll eventually work up to 6 or 7 of these in a session."

7 times a mile in 5 minutes with a 3 minute recovery at age 57?

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posted Apr-11-2007 12:13 PM               

Don Robertson of NZ holds the 55-59 world record of 15:41.7 The mile equivalent is 4:33. Maybe that's why Henry is chasing mile record (4:40.4) instead

Bob,

Hopefully the weather will turn. A light rain wouldn't be bad at all. Much better than heat. I can understand your anxiety. I have a hard time sleeping before a local 10k.

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posted Apr-11-2007 02:59 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by fredurie:
Shaheed's training:

He starts at 5 miles a day and works up to 12, running 6 days a week.
Mileage is run at 7 minute pace which he calls slow ( he's 57 ).

Shaheed:

"After the base, I
start running long intervals. Repeat miles. But then I drop the rest of my mileage. I might run 3 repeat miles, or maybe 4, depending. If it's a good year I'll start with 4, if it's not I'll start with 3.[b I'll run them at 5-minute pace, with 3 minutes in between. I'll eventually work up to 6 or 7 of these in a session."

7 times a mile in 5 minutes with a 3 minute recovery at age 57?[/B]

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Do you know when he wrote this? It might have been a couple years ago. If he could do this workout now he would surely be able go faster than the 16:32 he ran at Carlsbad. In any case, that's a monster workout even for a 40-yr old.

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