posted Apr-29-2007 09:18 PM               

Nice run, Fortunate One. I’ve heard that Big Sur is a beautiful but very tough course. Sounds like the same effort would have got you your BQ on most other courses.

Raider; I’ll never feel offended again when someone asks me for my senior discount card. That was brutal

edited to remove extraneous b.s.

[This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Apr-29-2007).]

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posted Apr-29-2007 10:45 PM            

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posted Apr-29-2007 11:52 PM            

You have buttinitis! Go back to your old shoe style. Sit on ice! Give your butt a rest for a week or so. You'll be back. Oh and follow Ribs advice and try to return the shoes. They can only say no.

Jim

19:55. You may not feel good about this race but it ain't bad given your many sand-bagging excuses. I used them all (well, except for the sick, visiting niece..That was original.)

I think you ran well. Anyone over 60 who can still run under 20 minutes is pretty good. I would discount the 4 miler. Friends of mine who run it every year tell me that it is more downhill than uphill and that their pace on the 4 miler corresponds to their 5K pace.

So I am going to congratulate you for running a race under difficult circumstances (not feeling good and all) and doing fairly well anyway. You may have run ugly but you still ran.

Raider

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posted Apr-30-2007 04:35 AM               

Jim - that really is a super time for that 5K especially if you weren't feeling all that great. It may have been ugly, but I have to concur with Raider, at least you ran and still sub 20 that's pretty damn good in my book!

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posted Apr-30-2007 08:53 AM               

As for me:

• Monday (date of arrival): about 7 in Hyde Park/Kennsington Gardens. Pumped up and much too fast so stopped early.
• Tuesday: Repeats at Paddington Track. Good pace, 2 X 2, 2 X 4, 2 X 2, 2 X 4.
• Wednesday: Long run with Serpentine Club up to Hampstead Heath. About 12. This is a park of meandering trails and paths, where England holds its big X-C races.
• Thursday: Day off.
• Friday: Last Friday of the Month 5K in Hyde Park. 17:51, for 21st. Most of the race is along the Serpentine in the Park, and I struggled a bit, but had a good time. As an aside, I think that all of the walking I did beforehand -- averaging a good 5 hours of walking a day -- took a bit out of me.
• Saturday: Blissful meandering run in Regents Park. 50 mins.
• Sunday (last day): Another beautiful day in London (we had rain only for one extended period). Took a last couple of laps in about an hour around Hyde Park/Kennsington Gardens.

[This message has been edited by jpgarland (edited Apr-30-2007).]

[This message has been edited by jpgarland (edited Apr-30-2007).]

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posted Apr-30-2007 10:20 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by jpgarland:
Last Friday of the Month 5K[/URL] in Hyde Park. 17:51, for 21st. Most of the race is along the Serpentine in the Park, and I struggled a bit, but had a good time.

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jp...Wow now that was a very nice run indeed especially for having struggled a bit. In my dreams that's really all I can say about that. It looks like you made the most of your trip, congratulations on placing 21st overall, I couldn't tell for sure but it looked like you were 1st in your age group as well, am I correct?

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posted Apr-30-2007 10:29 AM            

Jim, you must have edited out part of your post, but I gather you bagged another sub-20 fivek there. Nice going.

Monday: muggy, rainy and warm out there but did 8.2 kind of slow. No aches or pains, but no energy either.

This wraps up April with 215 miles. Pleased about where I am. Spareribs

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posted Apr-30-2007 11:03 AM               

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posted Apr-30-2007 11:09 AM            

Also, too bad about that woman who only scored a 92.2% for her age group.

Hey, we all have bad days.

Dark Horse

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posted Apr-30-2007 11:46 AM               

Walk .5, run 3, walk .5 = 4.19 in 54:33

13:24, 11:47, 12:31, 14:15 for an avg. 13:01 m/m
Shin was a wee bit sore to begin with, but discomfort left half way into run. Icing for precautions, but I will take a rest day Tuesday and then try for 5 on Wedensday, with no walking.

Good runs and races all...

Mr. Ribs, you are a gentleman and a scholar!

Mr. Raider, how funny...70 years old!

For those of you familiar with DC, we lost a huge landmark to fire today. The Eastern Market burned down. It will never be the same.

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posted Apr-30-2007 07:18 PM               

http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/2609854

Cloudy & 54 Degrees

3.07 Miles according to Garmin - Hot Pursuit 5K Course - Tempo Run

22:13 - (7:13) Avg HR 144 / Max HR 154

7:37, 7:09, 7:01, :26

Second running of the course as a warm down -

3/08 Miles 24:04 - (7:48) Avg HR 144 / Max HR 154)

7:56, 7:53, 7:40, :33

Both times I ran it Garmin measured it at almost 3.1 miles, but they could be starting further back in the parking lot to make up the difference, I couldn't see any marks and I know that the course has been certified.

This felt good tonight, I would say that if things go well a sub 20 may very well be in the books on Sunday.

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posted Apr-30-2007 08:29 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Sun Raider:

Jim
I would discount the 4 miler. Friends of mine who run it every year tell me that it is more downhill than uphill and that their pace on the 4 miler corresponds to their 5K pace.

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True about the course, but a study I made of all the runners I could find who have run both Zippy 5k and Great Race 4-mile in past 2 years shows that they average 3-4 seconds per mile faster for the 5k. For me it has been:

2005 Great Race 26:10 (6:32), Mercury New's 5k 19:43 (6:21)
2006 Great Race 25:29 (6:22), Zippy's 5k 19:35 (6:18)
2007 Great Race 25:25 (6:21), Zippy's 5k 19:55 (6:25)]

The 5k courses are certified loops, and the GR 4 is a certified point-to-point.

Armed with this knowledge, it didn't seem logical to discount the 4 miler.

Anyway, I think I would have run faster yesterday if the bug hadn't hit me, but who knows? We are only as good as our last race--all we have to do is go out and run a good one to wipe out a bad day.

I have been improving today but status for this Saturday is still uncertain. I had a fever last night that has since lifted, but resting pulse still hasn't returned to normal. If everything is back ok by Wednesday I will try to prove the doubters wrong by running big in the half. An outside possiblity is to wait an extra day and take another shot at 5k on Sunday. My training has been more geared up for the half and I've been looking forward to it, but 13 miles can be a grueling distance and I'll have one less day to take it easy.

edited for known typos

[This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Apr-30-2007).]

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posted May-01-2007 12:40 AM            

You ran sick. That is more than likely the reason for your less than expected (but still decent) performance.

I don't run sick. I am a weenie that way. I have no interest in finding out how fast I am when not feeling well (or injured). My good training runs and races have come when I felt strong. It is very simple formula. It has worked well for over 40 years.

Raider

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posted May-01-2007 11:12 AM            

I did 6 miles of hill running last night, and I love how it is getting easier already. Also I am finally no longer coughing up and spitting stuff out from my flu last month.

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posted May-01-2007 11:16 AM               

Have a great time and a great race in Weott!

Jim

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posted May-01-2007 11:35 AM               

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posted May-01-2007 11:53 AM            

It is always interesting to read the variety of viewpoints on running with injuries or illness. The wisdom of this group certainly offers this inexperienced runner food for thought.

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posted May-01-2007 12:20 PM            

Dark Horse

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posted May-01-2007 01:47 PM            

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posted Jun-02-2007 10:43 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
Cuchalain,

Advice from Spareribs and Sun Raider seems to be consistent with what I observed when I commented on your thread:
"So far as training, you are running too fast for your current condition, both for your track workouts and “easy” runs. I can’t stress this enough. If I were in your position I would either knock off the track workouts for a while, or if you do like to go to the track, just do cruise or tempo intervals when there...
Here is link that can give you an idea of correct training paces. It’s good that you have a benchmark 5k to base them on. As your race times drop, so will your training paces:
http://runworks.com/calculator.html "

Most of us have been down the same road. I know that I have, so I'm not throwing any stones. Things are really different when you get up into the 50's.

[This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Apr-24-2007).]

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posted Jun-02-2007 11:23 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim24315:
Cuchalain,

Advice from Spareribs and Sun Raider seems to be consistent with what I observed when I commented on your thread:
"So far as training, you are running too fast for your current condition, both for your track workouts and “easy” runs. I can’t stress this enough. If I were in your position I would either knock off the track workouts for a while, or if you do like to go to the track, just do cruise or tempo intervals when there...
Here is link that can give you an idea of correct training paces. It’s good that you have a benchmark 5k to base them on. As your race times drop, so will your training paces:
http://runworks.com/calculator.html "

Most of us have been down the same road. I know that I have, so I'm not throwing any stones. Things are really different when you get up into the 50's.

[This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Apr-24-2007).]

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Hope you don't mind a slightly lengthy response here. I didn't mention before, because I did not want to be verbose the first time, but adding the speedwork was after a good six months of training without it and running as you recommended, i.e. bulding a base at easy pace.

I had since cut back on my track 'speedwork', doing pace workouts similar to what folks here were suggesting. My daily workouts have been getting faster, as they had been throughout this period, but my racing and fundamental speed still fails entirely. I ran a 5k today, expecting to improve on my 5ks from Jan and Feb. The last few months have been as healthy and consistent as I've had in years, and as mentioned, my workout times have been improving with the same effort.

Today I was running at a slower pace (7:30!) through the first mile than those prior runs and it was work! So I quit. Didn't want to work two more miles cursing the whole way and getting a bad result. Interestingly, afterwards, I went back and did a one mile stride over the same route, simulating what I thought should have been my race pace and it was easier and faster than that first mile.

I've been running for 40 years so I've been through it all but I'm not solving this. Its clear that adequate warm up has become critical and I'm conscious of that. My warm up was consrticted by logistics today, but not absent. Just a bit less than I would have done otherwise. I should be able to run through 7:30 quite comfortably (I did 7:19 on the stride.)

It seems, in part, that being "up" or "down" on race day has become more extreme than when I was younger. The January race, which was 'faster' was also easier and fun. The second races were both ones where despite my best efforts, and adequate warm up in the second of three, I felt I was overworking and in oxygen debt at start, despite consciously starting what I thought was easy enough. (By the way, I can essentially tell on the way to the race if it will be good or bad. If I want to hear music and sing along with a clear voice, it will be a good day (I'm Irish). If I would rather listen to news or my voice is strained when singing, it will not be sharp).

In sum, I still run much slower than I should, even adjusting for age, than I should given what I used to do and how 'well' I've otherwise been trianing. "My ups and downs have much higher swings, and too often they are low.

Prior advice had included the statement, "As your race times drop". They should have based on my consistent training and training times, but they don't.

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